tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post2061070702773983212..comments2024-03-27T11:55:27.988+00:00Comments on Bessler's Wheel and the Orffyreus Code: PM Archive?John Collinshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13274781515636883957noreply@blogger.comBlogger79125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-64649955466280765862013-03-28T11:38:23.849+00:002013-03-28T11:38:23.849+00:00Sorry Mike/TG/KenB,
I respectively disagree with ...Sorry Mike/TG/KenB,<br /><br />I respectively disagree with your conclusion. The mechanism you describe is a complex arrangement of levers, springs and cords. Not something anyone would conclude is very simple in appearance or could be recreated after viewing for a few minutes. Plus, complexity aside, the design is nothing more than a weight shifting mechanism, a design that is at best break even. It will never work, and it explains why you don't have a runner. You are wasting your time and ours.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-37778064528316810262013-03-28T10:21:54.893+00:002013-03-28T10:21:54.893+00:00May be it's time to get out of the armchair an...May be it's time to get out of the armchair and give it a try?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-72274814373016385712013-03-28T08:13:11.675+00:002013-03-28T08:13:11.675+00:00Suresh wrote 'What I don’t understand is even ...Suresh wrote 'What I don’t understand is even though the wheel mechanism is supposed to be very simple why is that it is still evading everyone?'<br /><br />Tg touched on this several times. A state or national lottery is a 'simple' set up but only one combination of numbers from the machine will win you the jackpot of money. With Bessler's wheels only one correct combo of lever lengths, cord connections and lengths, and spring connections and tensions will do the trick. It toook Bessler a decade to find that special combo using every crafting trick he knew. If tg is right then that combo of factors is hidden in the two dt portraits. But to recover the info you need to be actively building and following any and all angles, ratios, etc suggested by the portraits. Then if you are very very lucky you will hit it and have a working wheel which is the same as Bessler's. Yes weights, levers, cords, and springs are 'simple' but finding the right shapes and other factors is definity not simple despite what count Karl said after paying for a peek at the wheels insides. He only saw the final result of a working mechnanism and did not know all of the details which Bessler probably did not go into. When tg returns he'll set us all straight on this again (I cant wait!).<br /><br />mikeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-32748120104013019132013-03-28T07:48:19.271+00:002013-03-28T07:48:19.271+00:00Tg returning?! I can hardly believe it! My praye...Tg returning?! I can hardly believe it! My prayers have been answered and there must be a God! Now maybe this blog will start to be relevant again and we'll start to learn new things about Bessler's wheels which is supposed to be why were all here in the first place or at least I always thought it was. I could care less how long your comments are because I always learned something from them that I saw nowhere else on the web. But expect the 'Ignorami' to double their efforts to get rid of you again. They never rest. They learned where all of Collins 'buttons' are located and how to push them to get people they hate made 'unwelcome' around here. <br /><br />Meanwhile can you or anybody provide a good translation of the words under the second DT portrait? I don't have a copy of DT yet and can find nothing about them on the web. Thanx.<br /><br />mike<br /><br /> Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-37107242472382549372013-03-28T02:17:08.591+00:002013-03-28T02:17:08.591+00:00Wow…that would be great TG…we would love to have y...Wow…that would be great TG…we would love to have you back and there is no doubt in that…there was some brief misunderstanding, that’s all…nothing else…have been missing you a lot…we should endeavor to contribute as much as possible to make this blog very interesting without being very intrusive at the same time…we could also be wrong anytime…till we have a real working model no one is going to believe us in any case…it is not their fault either…this happened during Bessler time also…It is all to do with the nature of this matter…something out of nothing…having an open mind is also good for us…<br />Anyway…I strongly wish that you must join us and keep up your promise of brevity and the rate of frequency of posting…<br />Sureshnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-73386296829520555032013-03-27T21:56:27.961+00:002013-03-27T21:56:27.961+00:00Is the assessment below correct?
If you push the ...Is the assessment below correct?<br /><br />If you push the upper pedal to the LEFT, the bike moves to the LEFT. If you push the lower pedal to the LEFT, the bike moves to the RIGHT.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-83509521586704394212013-03-27T21:47:50.869+00:002013-03-27T21:47:50.869+00:00Sorry - my anti and my anti-clockwise may have got...Sorry - my anti and my anti-clockwise may have got mixed up while mixing some weird drink combinations. I shall put these away and have some alcohol to clear my head instead.<br /><br />I hope you got the general idea though. It's an unexpected outcome to a seemingly obvious action.<br /><br />Great Bearnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-156374194697655852013-03-27T21:31:55.964+00:002013-03-27T21:31:55.964+00:00Interesting indeed!
->Interesting indeed!<br /><br />->Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-90764780016903434152013-03-27T21:27:07.846+00:002013-03-27T21:27:07.846+00:00As you say JC, I think GB has clockwise and counte...As you say JC, I think GB has clockwise and counter-clockwise mixed up. We also have to assume that the bike does not have a free-wheeling hub. That is, if you pedal forwards the bike goes forward, if you pedal backwards, the bike moves backwards - like how a uni-cycle works.<br /><br />Also I think we have to think in terms of linear push direction instead of rotation.<br /><br />If you push the upper pedal to the LEFT, the bike moves to the LEFT. If you push the lower pedal to the LEFT, the bike moves to the RIGHT.<br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-30056058216190250022013-03-27T20:41:46.745+00:002013-03-27T20:41:46.745+00:00I need to rephrase something ...
I said "Tha...I need to rephrase something ...<br /><br />I said "That experience helped me recognize the potential of the mechanism I discovered, and now call the prime mover".<br /><br />I need to change that to<br /><br />"That experience helped me recognize the mechanism I now call the prime mover".<br /><br />-><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-11996984021145101872013-03-27T20:32:22.702+00:002013-03-27T20:32:22.702+00:00Isn't the internet the PM archive already? Not...Isn't the internet the PM archive already? Nothing is new.anonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-40615570488135024832013-03-27T19:18:18.265+00:002013-03-27T19:18:18.265+00:00Hi Great Bear, that doesn't seem right. I thin...Hi Great Bear, that doesn't seem right. I think your conclusion that the pedals move clockwise is wrong. When you say, 'push down on the top of the front pedal', that is making it move anticlockwise or from 9 o'clock towards 6 o'clock.<br /><br />And later you say, 'Now with the pedals vertical, push the bottom pedal clockwise (backwards in this case).' That clearly moves the pedal from 6 o'clock, backwards and upwards towards 3 o'clock- anti-clockwise, and the bicycle would still move forward and to the left - or am I confused?<br /><br />Possibly it has something to do with me being English and driving/riding on the left. In the US, your pedals would move clockwise but only if the front wheel was to the right and the rear wheel to the left!<br /><br />JCJohn Collinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13274781515636883957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-82557886621621477112013-03-27T18:30:37.205+00:002013-03-27T18:30:37.205+00:00I'd call that a wrong analysis of directions.I'd call that a wrong analysis of directions. anonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-67507480098425457172013-03-27T17:43:06.999+00:002013-03-27T17:43:06.999+00:00On the subject of preponderance, here's a nove...On the subject of preponderance, here's a novelty for you. (JC, it might need a new thread)<br />I call it “THE BICYCLE PARADOX”.<br /><br />To see this in action, you need a bicycle. Rest it against a wall or get a friend to hold it up – front wheel to the left, back wheel to the right. Then use your hand to do the things you normally with the pedals. With the pedals horizontal, push down on the top of the front pedal – the bicycle moves forwards. Now push upwards on the pedal at the back – the bicycle moves forwards. With the pedals arranged vertically, push forwards on the top pedal - the bicycle moves forwards. Obvious, isn't it; moving the pedals in a clockwise direction makes the bicycle move forwards (in this case, to the left). Now with the pedals vertical, push the bottom pedal clockwise (backwards in this case). <br />The bicycle moves backwards!Great Bearnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-16882621443194885152013-03-27T17:36:57.680+00:002013-03-27T17:36:57.680+00:00Suresh said in 27 March 2013 04:39 post "Find...Suresh said in 27 March 2013 04:39 post "Find the prime mover first…that is the lever-weight attachment…the rest is just the support structure or the cover up…".<br /><br />I'm not trying to say the Bessler prime mover was not some type of lever-weight attachment, but it is not the prime mover I discovered and am trying to "vaguely" describe. My prime mover is not a simple grouping of levers and weights like those shown at the end of the spokes, or wheel periphery, in MT9 thru MT16. It is so much more, and yet so simple. I believe the prime mover(s) and OB wheel were distinct mechanisms, interconnected to achieve rotation.<br /><br />I also think that sometimes when Bessler is describing some aspect of his wheel, he is actually referring to details of the prime mover(s) and not the mechanics or design of the OB wheel. The clues seem to suggest this, but it only makes sense when you have the prime mover.<br /><br />The only other thing I will add at this time is I spent years trying to understand the Milkovic two stage oscillator. That experience helped me recognize the potential of the mechanism I discovered, and now call the prime mover.<br /><br />-><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-2483816977455849002013-03-27T16:53:48.964+00:002013-03-27T16:53:48.964+00:00The basic operational principle of the prime mover...The basic operational principle of the prime mover cannot change. So I agree with you on there only being one design if by that you mean the prime mover. However, since the prime mover can be used to power any number of wheel designs (MT9 thru MT16 for example), that part is variable.<br /><br />-><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-37882954574426304212013-03-27T16:23:51.254+00:002013-03-27T16:23:51.254+00:00My ears have been burning for far too long, so I h...My ears have been burning for far too long, so I have decided to comply with John's wishes that my comments be shorter and less frequent!<br /><br />First I have to attend to some personal business but then I WILL be back, if that is alright with John?technoguynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-34895098006082360642013-03-27T16:09:16.782+00:002013-03-27T16:09:16.782+00:00Sorry Suresh, I was not too clear. The prime mover...Sorry Suresh, I was not too clear. The prime mover does contain weights and levers but they are not used in the way one would think of in a weight shifting OB design. The prime mover is a power source in it's own right and can be used by itself to power something, or attached to something larger. That is why I referred to it as a rocket, because it kind of works that way. If you want to turn a wheel, connect one or more to the periphery and you will get rotation - this configuration is the most efficient and will yield the greatest torque. You could use it to lift the weights in designs like MT9 thru MT16, but why go to all the extra work. However, I do think that may have been what Bessler was eluding to in MT11. The inner wheel would be the prime mover. Using the prime mover to power one of the MT9 thru MT16 wheels is what I meant by all the possible configurations.<br /><br />-><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-88865614600199112222013-03-27T07:15:05.568+00:002013-03-27T07:15:05.568+00:00You will be very lucky and make a fortune if you h...You will be very lucky and make a fortune if you have really hit upon the right one…Well, do you know that there is only one configuration and that is bessler design which would work?…many don’t realize this and there begins their first downfall…and once you get this design then even before you think of going about building it you would know for sure that it is the one…<br />If there were many designs or different ways of achieving success in this matter this wheel would have been invented many times over by many by now…Even Bessler could achieve it only after many failures…The MT designs are proof of it…<br />And,finally,it is not just that the levers only play a major role; the weights’ role too is equally great if not more…<br />Sureshnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-5784788972847959902013-03-27T04:39:40.501+00:002013-03-27T04:39:40.501+00:00You are right Anonymous 26 March 2013 19:54…
Find ...You are right Anonymous 26 March 2013 19:54…<br />Find the prime mover first…that is the lever-weight attachment…the rest is just the support structure or the cover up…This should be our right approach…You can call it the soul or heart of the wheel…then we will eventually be too surprised to find that it matches with all the clues in the poem, etc., provided that we find the correct prime mover… This is the way to start…Thanks...<br />Sureshnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-11402084779690680722013-03-27T01:13:59.415+00:002013-03-27T01:13:59.415+00:00TG
CWTG<br />CWAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-58680754601264031822013-03-26T23:22:58.417+00:002013-03-26T23:22:58.417+00:00As you probably know, 2D programs like Physion, Wo...As you probably know, 2D programs like Physion, Working Model 2D (and silux) are only able to analyse motion in a single plane, or a series of parallel planes. That's all that is needed to analyse most Bessler wheel ideas, but I have found I sometimes need a 3D program.<br /><br />I'm now quite impressed with the 3D program Universal Mechanism, see http://www.universalmechanism.com/en/, having used it for a while. When you download it, you get a three month free licence (or you can get the "Lite" version free for ever, but I didn't bother with that. I just bought the program plus several modules for USD220, which is far cheaper than an equivalent Western program).Arktosnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-23742402159602261252013-03-26T23:21:58.734+00:002013-03-26T23:21:58.734+00:00When I said "what OB wheel design will work b...When I said "what OB wheel design will work best" I meant what wheel type to strap the device to. It could just be a basic wheel, so the force of the devices (rockets) would be doing the work. Or you would use the devices to lift weights in an OB type wheel. An OB wheel seems like not the best use, but you would have many choices.<br /><br />->Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-25320109507903632922013-03-26T23:06:15.889+00:002013-03-26T23:06:15.889+00:00Imagine having a device that acts like a rocket, a...Imagine having a device that acts like a rocket, a one way force, say of value F. Now imagine attaching N of them to the perimeter of a wheel with radius R. The net torque (T) would be<br /><br />T = N x (F x R)<br /><br />If I am correct, Bessler's final wheel could produce something around 17.5 lb-ft of torque (70lb lift capability with 3 inch axle radius). Assuming the wheel consisted of 8 of these rocket devices located at a 6ft radius, that makes<br /><br />17.5 lb-ft = 8 x (F x 6ft)<br /><br />F is .3646lb of force. Only .3646lb of force. How meager. Now imagine the rockets having a force of say 20lb. The torque would be<br /><br />T = 8 x (20lb x 6ft) = 960lb-ft<br /><br />A rope on a 3 inch radius axle would have a lifting force of 3840lb. So instead of lifting a box or rocks, you could lift a car. Nice!<br /><br />So you still think you are looking in the right place?<br /><br />->Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-79507271627363946032013-03-26T23:03:42.354+00:002013-03-26T23:03:42.354+00:00You could put it in your will, that your research ...You could put it in your will, that your research is to be published somewhere on the internet if you were to pass on !Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com