tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post4693525767704278668..comments2024-03-27T11:55:27.988+00:00Comments on Bessler's Wheel and the Orffyreus Code: Update - More Clues Deciphered.John Collinshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13274781515636883957noreply@blogger.comBlogger81125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-37871357124173375722020-09-22T16:57:14.798+01:002020-09-22T16:57:14.798+01:00Hey I’m Martin Reed,if you are ready to get a loan...Hey I’m Martin Reed,if you are ready to get a loan contact.Mr Benjamin via email: 247officedept@gmail.com ,WhatsApp:+1 989-394-3740 I’m giving credit to his Service .They grant me the sum 2,000,000.00 Euro. within 5 working days.Mr Benjamin work with group investors into pure loan and debt financing at the low ROI to pay off your bills or buy a home Or Increase your Business. please I advise everyone out there who are in need of loan and can be reliable, trusted and capable of repaying back at the due time of funds.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-16915107159417811092020-08-25T10:58:13.337+01:002020-08-25T10:58:13.337+01:00As long as it remained within the field of gravity...As long as it remained within the field of gravity. JCJohn Collinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13274781515636883957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-15294751653850657402020-08-25T10:40:24.032+01:002020-08-25T10:40:24.032+01:00But assume that one could actually build Bessler&#...But assume that one could actually build Bessler's wheels from indestructible materials that never deteriorated or wore out. Would they then run forever?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-49420631874956775362020-08-25T10:00:23.688+01:002020-08-25T10:00:23.688+01:00Yes and he referred to it as the ‘so-called perpe...Yes and he referred to it as the ‘so-called perpetual motion’, implying that was not strictly true or accurate.<br /><br />JCJohn Collinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13274781515636883957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-76220742923543491742020-08-25T06:37:01.653+01:002020-08-25T06:37:01.653+01:00Thanks for that full quote anon 03:21 which clearl...Thanks for that full quote anon 03:21 which clearly shows it does not just refer to a wheel's spring material. Bessler is basically saying you can use different materials for your wheel and since none of them will last forever, pm is only an ideal you can imagine but which can never be achieved in practice. The best you can hope for, if you actually do have a wheel whose design is theoretically capable of pm, is to use the most durable materials you can find which will allow it to run as long as possible before it breaks down and that will be far shorter than eternity. Maybe Bessler included that quote as a way of dealing with those skeptics who would dismiss his wheel as not being pm just because it needed to be stopped for occasional repairs or maintenance?<br /><br />jasonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-81278863749193275432020-08-25T03:21:41.281+01:002020-08-25T03:21:41.281+01:00Full quote and context from DT Pages 214 and 215.
...Full quote and context from DT Pages 214 and 215.<br /><br />We must, of course, bear in mind an important point which will not be lost on any person who has not willfully imprisoned or dismissed the common sense with which he was born. Namely, that there is one vital, self-evident proviso attached to the extraordinarily simple and clear definition which we have given. For it is impossible to construct any new machine except by using a certain type of material, whatever it may be, of greater or lesser durability. And no material can possibly be conceived of, let alone actually exist, which does not wear out, break or become unusable in some respect through age, in some particular period of time far short of “infinity.” Hence it must be self-evident that the use of terms such as “infinity” or “perpetuity” in the definition does not imply a divine eternity, or an “age of ages”, but rather a concept dependent on the respective, not absolute, durability of the material substrates employed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-60248994700658147652020-08-25T02:45:49.896+01:002020-08-25T02:45:49.896+01:00The main problem with MT13 was not bearing type fr...The main problem with MT13 was not bearing type friction or drag which could be virtually eliminated with enough lubrication. The problem was that the GPE lost by the dropping of the COG of all of the weights during 30 degrees of wheel rotation was not enough to raise that single weight whose lever's extra little arm hit wheel B as the lever's pivot approached the 12:00 position. Many of the other designs in MT suffer from this exact same problem in different forms as do most of the non MT designs pm chasers are working on today. Not much has changed in three centuries.<br /><br />As far as Ken B's wheel is concerned, IIRC the two major objections to it in the past seemed to be how low its torque would be and how many coordinating cords it required for its operation. However, Bessler stated that his first 3 foot diameter wheel (which is what Ken shows in his video) did have very low torque and could barely keep itself in motion. As far as the number of cords is concerned, if you study his video carefully you'll realize that of the 24 cords shown, only 16 are actually used for the coordinated shifting of its levers. The other 8 cords only act when stretched tight as tethers to block continued lever swinging as a lever's pivot approaches the 9:00 position of the wheel. He calls those "stop cords". <br /><br />So the coordination of the eight levers only requires each lever to be connected by 2 cords to two other levers. It's not that much to require for the sake of achieving pm, but I'm sure many builders will shy away from such a cord laden design just as they will from any design with springs in it even though Bessler suggested that his working design did use springs but just not like those in wind up clock movements of the time. Ken's wheel appears to use steel helical expansion type springs. <br /><br />On page 214 of DT Bessler wrote:<br /><br />“We must bear an important point. It is impossible to construct any new machine except by using a certain type of material.” <br /><br />That "certain type of material" may have been improved steel used to make the springs in it and which made the springs less prone to being permanently damaged by repeated stretching and contraction. This type of steel was developed for the various spring powered clocks and other mechanisms beginning to appear back then.<br /> Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-60675618293785351622020-08-25T00:21:09.923+01:002020-08-25T00:21:09.923+01:00@ Marinus. "Yes. A working wheel will be the ...@ Marinus. "Yes. A working wheel will be the only acceptable proof.<br /><br />Telling, explaining, with diagrams, or even a sim is not gonna do the job. That has been tried before and got us nowhere."<br /><br />It will do the job if JC's source of excess impetus/weight (excess torque) is clear to see to almost everyone. It is conceivable that a visibly plausible theory might be scuppered in a real world build by too many internal frictions, if the advantage is small, so that the frictions eat up any tendency to self rotate, as suggested by mt13's comments.<br /><br />It is not known whether a sim is able to show a positive self sustaining result which 'appears' to break the Conservation Laws of Energy and Momentum. Only because no one has produced such a logical mechanical arrangement to test. I suspect that if JC's mechanical answer is in fact a workaround to those Laws but does not depart from known Newtonian Mechanics then it probably can demonstrate the principles in action successfully. It might take some finessing of the sim to get it to behave as JC anticipates, which is a normal development and testing progression (the beta testing).<br /><br />I would add that even a very obviously plausible and logical design will still be met in some quarters by total resistance without the final proof of a working real world build. That is because there will be the gamut of emotional responses out there. However most who can keep their heads will recognize the potential for a runner from the ground work done by JC, if indeed he has a valid proposal for a mechanical gravity PM wheel.<br /><br />Ken B's groundwork and sim did not get a wide acceptance as an 'obvious truth' because of a number of things. And you can read what those concerns were in earlier JC's blogs, so as to not repeat them here.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-2443262603503392592020-08-24T18:32:49.238+01:002020-08-24T18:32:49.238+01:00I haven't been here in a while but it's ni...I haven't been here in a while but it's nice to see this blog finally coming out of its "suspended animation". These posts about MT 13 caught my eye since I've commented on it in the past. Those Y shaped levers really stand out and if they are that important then they should somehow have been indicated in the drawing of MT 13. But where and how? I think I've found how Bessler did that. Here's MT 13 for reference.<br /><br />https://besslerwheel.com/wiki/images/a/a5/Mt_013.gif<br /><br />First count the number of outer levers and there are 12 of them. Next add up the alphanumeric values of all of the letters or A + B + C + C + D = 1 + 2 + 3 + 3 + 4 = 13 which just happens to equal the number of the MT drawing and is also a number associated with God who Bessler claimed gave him the secret of making pm wheels. Finally add the 12 and the 13 to get 25. What is the meaning of 25 here? Simple. The 25th letter of the alphabet is Y! It's a difficult clue to find, but it's definitely there. This could just be a coincidence but when it comes to alphanumeric clues in Bessler's drawings I don't believe in "coincidences"!<br /><br />I think I mentioned before that MT 13 reminds me of a big happy face with the letter C's being the eyes and that half moon weight the smiling mouth. Why did Bessler give us a smiling face only with this one MT drawing? Maybe because the final wheel he made that worked was based on MT 13 and that made him very happy?<br /><br />Sayer of SoothsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-48473368900405774472020-08-23T19:23:28.181+01:002020-08-23T19:23:28.181+01:00@Jason. Parts of the note for MT 13 read "Th...@Jason. Parts of the note for MT 13 read "This is a new weight invention with no belts or chains but each weight is separate and free...This invention would be very good for running if not so much friction were present or someone was available up by D to always lift up the weight with lightning speed." <br /><br />MT13 is the only wheel in MT that Bessler gives that kind of approval to. He knows that there is too much friction in it which he would not know unless he actually built it. Also, it's described as new which means it was probably one of last wheels he built before he finally found his working wheel solution. You saying that Ken's wheel and possibly Bessler's wheel is based on it makes sense to me. Bessler must have realized it would only work if he could somehow use its other lever weights to lift up some of the lever weights as they moved toward 12:00 o'clock and that must be what he eventually figured out how to do. <br /><br />I've tried building wheels similar to this in the past and had the same friction problem show up just as soon as one of the weights touched a ramp intended to raise it up. Using the dropping of some weights to lift up other weights with ropes never occurred to me but it would have eliminated the use of the ramps. Maybe that's what does work and Bessler finally managed to do it after he did a lot of experimenting with connecting ropes to find out how many were needed and how they had to be attached to the levers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-16605301972092600572020-08-23T11:58:57.919+01:002020-08-23T11:58:57.919+01:00Thanks for that link anon 01:25 because I never sa...Thanks for that link anon 01:25 because I never saw that wheel video before. I agree it's very interesting. Basically it's a sort of an advanced version of MT13. He's decreased the number of levers from twelve down to eight and added an extra arm which gives a lever that unusual letter Y shape when it reaches 12 o'clock. The crescent shaped ballast weight near A and its opposed lifting wheel near B are now gone. To lift a lever as it approaches 12 o'clock the wheel depends on the stretched springs attached to the lever and the ropes attaching its two extra angled arms to the other levers. Unlike MT13 the arms with the weights on them don't suddenly fly up toward the drum rim as they near 12 o'clock. The lifting actually starts at 9 o'clock and isn't completely finished until a lever passes 3 o'clock and the weight arm finally hits some sort of stop in the drum. The fastest lifting definitely seems to take place between 9 and 10:30. <br /><br />No one can say Ken's version lacks coordination with all of those ropes between the levers. In fact I don't think it could run without them. But the center of gravity of the weights is very close to the axle and the torque that results will be low. Anyone trying to sim or build this better make sure his work is as precise as possible so the center of gravity will stay on the descending side of the axle as the wheel rotates.<br /><br />Without seeing something that looks better I would definitely consider this as a possible candidate for what Bessler used. But to be completely convinced I'd have to see others make working sims of it and preferably a working wheel. Maybe that will happen someday.<br /><br />jasonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-31018483509403938922020-08-23T11:27:41.673+01:002020-08-23T11:27:41.673+01:00I hope mine works! JCI hope mine works! JCJohn Collinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13274781515636883957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-18455037334240306572020-08-23T11:20:06.363+01:002020-08-23T11:20:06.363+01:00Yes. A working wheel will be the only acceptable p...Yes. A working wheel will be the only acceptable proof.<br /><br />Telling, explaining, with diagrams, or even a sim is not gonna do the job. That has been tried before and got us nowhere.Marinushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01427662564340726700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-86192893816333266372020-08-23T07:30:33.781+01:002020-08-23T07:30:33.781+01:00Ovaron; Is right, on all accounts. You have to bui...Ovaron; Is right, on all accounts. You have to build a wheel first, then a simulation, to show how it works, would be very useful-----------------SamSam Peppiattnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-83749754450015111142020-08-23T01:25:07.161+01:002020-08-23T01:25:07.161+01:00When you say "His concept has absolutely noth...When you say "His concept has absolutely nothing to do with Besslers wheel and is pure fantasy" that is really only your opinion. Many have looked at that youtube video he made last year of the wheel design he claims is Bessler's and have been very impressed by it because it seems to agree with all of the more obvious clues Bessler left in his writings and even with that line about "the weights which rest below must rise up in a flash" or something like that which happens for the weights moving from 9 to 10:30 in his wheel. <br /><br />It's true a working wheel based on his design does not exist at this time but at least he claims to have working sims showing what he's found does work and he wouldn't have wrote his book if he did not have those sims. I don't think he's lying but of course his sims could be giving him false results that fooled him. But he says he checked them very carefully to make sure that wasn't happening. I don't know because I'm not an expert on sims. In his book he gives the plans needed to build a working three foot diameter one direction wheel and says it could be finished in only a few weeks. It probably won't be that easy though. <br /><br />If John can't get his five mechanism wheel running then I think we will see how very determined he will become to be able to also claim he's got some working sims for it even though he can't build it and no one else will have either at that time. I give Ken much credit for the effort he made which is exceptional as far as Bessler's wheels are concerned, imo. For anyone that hasn't seen what he claims is Bessler's wheel design yet it can be found on youtube at<br /><br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nP7KY6_EAM<br /><br />He also gives links there to some other interesting short videos about Bessler's wheels he's made over the years.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-60268458190357242382020-08-22T16:38:04.515+01:002020-08-22T16:38:04.515+01:00So patronising anon. 9.49
JC
So patronising anon. 9.49<br /><br />JC<br />John Collinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13274781515636883957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-38435177275384211982020-08-22T14:14:57.515+01:002020-08-22T14:14:57.515+01:00@Anonymous21 August 2020 at 21:15
"Ken B. di...@Anonymous21 August 2020 at 21:15<br /><br />"Ken B. did exactly that last year and I don't think it's making him famous or rich."<br />Ken has no functioning physical model. What he tries to sell is complete nonsense for anyone who is interested in Bessler. His concept has absolutely nothing to do with Besslers wheel and is pure fantasy.<br />Only he who can show a working physical model has a chance to earn some money. What Ken tried to do, from the very beginning was doomed to fail. From a concept to a theoretical design is already a long way. From a theoretical to a final design or better construction plan a physical model is in my opinion indispensable. If you only try to design a model with simulation software like Ken you have no idea how difficult it can be to build a physical model from a theoretical design. <br /><br />ovaron<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-52025653057395749752020-08-22T11:07:14.622+01:002020-08-22T11:07:14.622+01:00Without a working wheel you'll need to have a ...Without a working wheel you'll need to have a working sim at least which could then eventually lead others to making working wheels from it. Let's hope and pray that happens for you. You've been working away on this for more years than Bessler did on his first runner and it would be a damn shame if you came out of it empty handed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-24269161246043829822020-08-22T09:49:44.375+01:002020-08-22T09:49:44.375+01:00Why do we want to make a working circle? Is it jus...Why do we want to make a working circle? Is it just to prove something to someone? So I am asking where the inventor's soul has gone, is everything to be converted into money? Where is the quest to discover the nature of the planet we live on? You need to have and cultivate the soul of a scientist to bring good to all its inhabitants.<br />Let's take a look around and let the mammon out of hand. You have to be very careful with what you are aiming for because Bessler warned that you could be overcome by the devil if you see it in action.<br />It will not be a toy, but there is a natural phenomenon behind it, which is unknown. This way of operating the wheel will determine all directions of modern science because it comes from its character. This is important to bear in mind when dealing with this matter. One has to dream, dreams add wings, but not everything should be relativized. You should get to know the culture of thought and the culture of communication proposed by Bessler because it is the way to success.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-27094543229575970492020-08-22T07:21:10.930+01:002020-08-22T07:21:10.930+01:00That would be a real pleasure Sam!
JCThat would be a real pleasure Sam!<br /><br />JCJohn Collinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13274781515636883957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-8262948925101740652020-08-22T07:20:03.926+01:002020-08-22T07:20:03.926+01:00Again I agree, anon, 21.15! I have considered all...Again I agree, anon, 21.15! I have considered all the options and there is no easy or obvious answer, I know Ken sold some of his books but I don’t know whether he has made his fortune yet, but I doubt it, without a working model, few are persuaded. This is why I decided to try to complete my own wheel before publishing the details, hoping that it will work! <br /><br />JC<br />John Collinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13274781515636883957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-42977673757916534002020-08-21T23:50:03.552+01:002020-08-21T23:50:03.552+01:0021:15A At least with a working wheel, you could t...21:15A At least with a working wheel, you could tell the critics to "F" off------SamSam Peppiattnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-11790776806036268792020-08-21T21:15:53.902+01:002020-08-21T21:15:53.902+01:00"The easiest way to earn some recognition and..."The easiest way to earn some recognition and money is to sell plans, maybe write a book."<br /><br />Ken B. did exactly that last year and I don't think it's making him famous or rich. Everyone thinks when they find the solution or actually even build a working wheel based on it then it will be like winning a lottery jackpot and they will get famous and rich overnight. Did that happen to Bessler? He did get some brief local fame but no big money for all of his decades of work looking for a solution. The average person today has never heard of him or his wheels. Don't make the mistake of thinking everything will be much different now three hundred years after Bessler. Most likely when everyone realizes how little power these wheels generate there will be no serious commercial interest in them. Those chasing after pm should consider their efforts as labors of love rather than as quick ways to fame, riches, or saving the world from climate change. Chasing pm is like having an annoying itch that only you will be relieved of if you finally scratch it by finding a solution. Everyone else couldn't care less about your itch because they're too busy trying to scratch their own itches.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-46679073019201981822020-08-21T18:53:14.447+01:002020-08-21T18:53:14.447+01:00Yes, I agree ovaron.
JCYes, I agree ovaron.<br /><br />JCJohn Collinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13274781515636883957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-84835029742136505232020-08-21T17:18:49.807+01:002020-08-21T17:18:49.807+01:00A patent is in my opinion the safest way to lose a...A patent is in my opinion the safest way to lose a lot of money (and nerves!!) and no guarantee to ever get anything. A patent is worthless if nobody buys it, unless you already have a lot of money to defend it legally in case it is used illegally. The easiest way to earn some recognition and money is to sell plans, maybe write a book. The other way is the one Bessler did. Not to disclose the design and try to sell a model with all rights for a respectable price. <br /><br />ovaronAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com