tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post4984018957232272606..comments2024-03-27T11:55:27.988+00:00Comments on Bessler's Wheel and the Orffyreus Code: The True Story of Johann Bessler’s Perpetual Motion Machine.John Collinshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13274781515636883957noreply@blogger.comBlogger68125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-33079766238485893042022-08-04T21:09:47.628+01:002022-08-04T21:09:47.628+01:00It would probably be viewed as just another fake p...It would probably be viewed as just another fake pm device video on youtube to be added to hundreds maybe thousands of them already there. We live in a world filled with scammers and hoaxers who are making more and more people not believe in anything. As soon as anyone starts believing in anything, the risk to his wallet goes way up. But the scammers know that many people are still gullible enough to fall for what they see and hear. <br /><br />A scammer will promote his scam to thousands hoping to hook one big fish. Truecaller estimates that about 59.4 MILLION Americans lost $29.9 BILLION to phone scams over the past year! That's an average of $503 per victim. But that's just an average. There was a small percent that lost over $100,000 each! Most victims are too embarrassed to even report the crime.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-88564628251148406162022-08-04T21:06:47.681+01:002022-08-04T21:06:47.681+01:00To Anonymous 4 August 2022 at 19:01 :
Too many wh...To Anonymous 4 August 2022 at 19:01 :<br /><br />Too many what-ifs and assumptions with your comment. I can do the same and say the opposite. I'm certain that if the Bessler wheel was built today employing modern tools, materials, and our expanded body of knowledge it would surely be an improvement over the 300-year-old originals which admirably were operational and usable. <br /><br />I can agree today's patent applicant can claim there is no evidence that his/hers is Bessler's design as the latter never published the internal mechanisms. Regardless the Bessler wheel was never patented so it's going to be a first come,first serve for the businessbodies at the patent office...<br /><br />And who says a patented toy can't be successful?<br /><br />https://www.ipwatchdog.com/2018/12/23/iconic-patented-toys-games/id=91631/anon 19:35noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-66685887740136261622022-08-04T19:47:05.004+01:002022-08-04T19:47:05.004+01:00 They could just show how it works on YouTube, let... They could just show how it works on YouTube, let the rest of the world fight over it as much as they wish, and get on with their lives.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-77164131582568152412022-08-04T19:01:39.553+01:002022-08-04T19:01:39.553+01:00Okay assume someone duplicates Bessler's wheel...Okay assume someone duplicates Bessler's wheels. Since it's Bessler's design and not his, he can't patent it. But, maybe he can make the claim that there's no real proof it actually is Bessler's design. Then to patent it he would also have to NOT claim that it was actually making energy since that violates the 1st law of thermodynamics. <br /><br />To do that he could come up with some Ken B style explanation that the energy coming out of it derives from the mass of its moving parts. Fine. Maybe the patent office accepts that and he finally gets a patent. Then his wheel better be putting out lots of energy or industry will dismiss it as useless. If he can't improve it to make it put out the kind of power they want, all he will wind up with is something that a toy manufacturer might be interested in. <br /><br />Then his invention could get rejected by them after they did a little research and discovered they would have to give the toy a retail price of over $100 in order to make a small profit on their investment in manufacturing it. As a result, they conclude that the market of people willing to pay that much for a toy is too small to go after. <br /><br />The inventor could spend years traveling around the globe looking for some company willing to license the manufacturing rights to his invention. Meanwhile, his travel and legal expenses are mounting and he's just getting older and more depressed about the whole thing. In the end, he might wish he'd never heard of Bessler and his wheels!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-83904530713541853412022-08-04T17:20:51.790+01:002022-08-04T17:20:51.790+01:00"Look what happened to Bessler. He build at l..."Look what happened to Bessler. He build at least six wheels that we know about and publicly demonstrated them for YEARS to THOUSANDS of people, yet most of the people today who learn of his story just dismiss him as a clever crook with a fraudulent wheel! What makes anyone think that he won't have the same fate IF he manages to duplicate Bessler's wheel? History has an uncanny way of repeating itself."<br /><br />Possible answer: Patent Laws?anon 19.35noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-27456246633408764172022-08-04T01:58:35.246+01:002022-08-04T01:58:35.246+01:00I think a triangle has five sides. The three sides...I think a triangle has five sides. The three sides plus the front and back.:)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-52396039293943049562022-08-03T22:36:14.702+01:002022-08-03T22:36:14.702+01:00I bought some four sided triangles a while back, t... I bought some four sided triangles a while back, they cost me a fortune. <br /> My wife, while cleaning up my junk, put them in the box with all the squares and now i can't find them, they look exactly like squares and you just can't tell the difference.RH46https://www.blogger.com/profile/02447460278744997027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-57493570536109636412022-08-03T22:27:31.631+01:002022-08-03T22:27:31.631+01:00Making a four sided triangle is easy. Start with ...Making a four sided triangle is easy. Start with a four sided figure and just make sure that the interior angle between two adjacent sides is exactly 180 degrees and that the other three interior angles add up to exactly 180 degrees. PM skeptics are blockheads. Just ignore them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-62066903274118347662022-08-03T18:57:37.645+01:002022-08-03T18:57:37.645+01:00I've also often wonder why people come here.
...I've also often wonder why people come here. <br /><br />I think that most that come only lurk and are probably looking for information that they hope will finally allow them to solve the Bessler wheel mystery. They have probably been thinking about it for years. Occasionally one of them will anonymously announce that he has finally figured it all out and may even give some general description of it. Rarely do we see any drawings of his big discovery. That announcement probably gives him a good feeling, but it can rapidly fade when he sees the criticisms of his genius design from others here. That might make him rethink his solution and consider changing it, but I suspect he only assumes that he is still right and others here refuse to acknowledge that either because they are envious of his achievement or incompetent to do so.<br /><br />Some who come here may actually be actively building a wheel, but are frustrated at their inability to make it work. Coming here gives them an excuse to get away from it for a while, clear their minds, and maybe get some new ideas to try. Also, reading about the continuing failures of others with their wheels might make them less annoyed with their own failures as they realize that when chasing Bessler's pm wheel or any pm wheel, failure is the rule and success is the very, very, very rare exception. You really need to have the kind of luck involved in winning a jackpot prize in a multi-state, multi-draw lottery to finally build a working pm wheel. If you do, then who knows if anything will ever come of it. <br /><br />Look what happened to Bessler. He build at least six wheels that we know about and publicly demonstrated them for YEARS to THOUSANDS of people, yet most of the people today who learn of his story just dismiss him as a clever crook with a fraudulent wheel! What makes anyone think that he won't have the same fate IF he manages to duplicate Bessler's wheel? History has an uncanny way of repeating itself.<br /><br />And I suppose some who come here are skeptics who, confident that pm is physically impossible, find the pro-pm comments of most here to be amusing. They consider them to all be deluded and in need of psychotherapy to get this pm nonsense out of their minds so that they can stop wasting their time pursuing it. These skeptics consider building a pm wheel about as possible as making a four sided triangle.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-16246275798777911382022-08-03T16:24:11.522+01:002022-08-03T16:24:11.522+01:00"We're a strange bunch collectively, with..."We're a strange bunch collectively, with all our differences, but we do all have the same goal of seeking the solution to Bessler's wheel.'<br /><br />And by extension, I would say it is the diversity of thoughts, of motives, of forms, etc. that makes our short time on this planet a most wondrous and interesting experience!<br /><br />By the way my surname is Yang as y'all are curious. Too bad my first name isn't Yin. Then again it wouldn't make sense as I am a male. ;)<br /><br />From Michigan, USAanon 19:35noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-22038634674651368932022-08-03T16:01:51.465+01:002022-08-03T16:01:51.465+01:00"It is because of him and the enigma of his m..."It is because of him and the enigma of his machine that we are here exchanging ideas and hopefully leading to the the betterment of our (beautiful) planet".<br /> Unfortunately this isn't entirely true. Many are here to take advantage of others sharing their thoughts, in the hope of being the one who finds the solution, they do not share their thoughts because they are too worried that someone may use them and become the inventor. The betterment of our beautiful planet is not their main concern. Them having fame and fortune is far more important to them.<br /> Others are here to tell us they have found the secret, but they will not tell anyone what it is, because it's a secret.<br /> There are also those who are here to tell us that Ken has found the solution, and that we should all be building Ken's wheel because it is so amazingly wonderful and definitely exactly the same as Bessler's.<br />There are a few who are sharing their thoughts, in the hope of bettering our beautiful planet, irrespective of who actually invents it.<br /> We're a strange bunch collectively, with all our differences, but we do all have the same goal of seeking the solution to Bessler's wheel.<br /> RH46https://www.blogger.com/profile/02447460278744997027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-22258357477432296412022-08-03T15:36:15.142+01:002022-08-03T15:36:15.142+01:00I still maintain that the design was appreciably s...I still maintain that the design was appreciably simple for Karl to make another remark: <br /><br />"Karl stated to his ministers that he believed the wheel was indeed a perpetual motion and that he was amazed that no one had invented a similar machine before Bessler. "<br /><br />(http://www.orffyre.com/overview.html)<br /><br />He was "amazed" so those before his time easily had the technology/know-how to build one. I believe all of us at one point or another had a "why didn't I think of this before" moment. When it happens it implies the item/idea was available to us in the past but wasn't realized and it was probably right before our eyes. Further, the item/idea is likely simple and elegant. <br /><br />Reportedly the wheel always held some maximum speed with or without a load and in either direction. So for the load of stones to come down at a constant speed would naturally follow I think.<br /><br />What Bessler invented was an unprecedented feat for his time and even today. Here you have a contraption that is self-motive -- I don't think it was perpetual motion in the strictest sense -- and does work. It is because of him and the enigma of his machine that we are here exchanging ideas and hopefully leading to the the betterment of our (beautiful) planet. Yeah that sounded bit cliche/trite but I'm ok with that. :)anon 19:35noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-18425042704701542732022-08-03T05:41:25.365+01:002022-08-03T05:41:25.365+01:00There's been much debate here and on the bessl...There's been much debate here and on the besslerwheel.com forum over the years about what Karl meant by Bessler's design being "simple". It's really a subjective term. What he considered simple, someone else might consider not really that simple. Karl was a collector of the latest scientific instruments and clocks in Europe and he was used to seeing some very complicated mechanisms. When he said Bessler's wheels were simple he could have just meant that they did not require a lot of gears like clocks did. His stating that a carpenter's boy could construct one implies that their levers were made of wood. We know that his wheels contained lead weights. Some think the levers might have been connected together with leather straps or even chains instead of regular ropes because they would resist stretching and changing lengths which might mess up the coordination of their levers. Chains would be very noisy though.<br /><br />There is also some debate about how much power his wheels could put out continuously. They could lift heavy loads of stones, but his 12 feet diameter, bidirectional wheels could not do so from a standstill. They had to first be push started, allowed to reach their maximum speed, and then a rope running over a pulley to a heavy load of stones would be quickly attached by a small noose to a pin on the wheel's axle. And, then the load would immediately begin rising at its maximum speed which was probably only about a foot per second or so. <br /><br />As the load was raised, the wheel would gradually slow to a stop so these hoists were actually braking tests. But, a load could be raised tens of feet before that happened. It's suggested that once a load reached as high as possible, the wheel would stop, change direction, and begin lowering it back down to the ground again. The load would not just come crashing down, however, as one might expect, but the wheel would actually lower it at a constant rate! Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-11528582343201060142022-08-03T03:28:14.405+01:002022-08-03T03:28:14.405+01:00I put a ? after the phrase "spring-loaded&quo...I put a ? after the phrase "spring-loaded". The weight may or may not need the assistance of a spring. The main force could come from the pole hammer coming down on the cabin/lever that holds the weight and ejecting it (sorta like a springboard). The spring could play a supporting role in this case. The question really involves the optimum design -- and that's a big question mark -- of a projectile system that can move the weight from one cabin/lever to the one above and maintain the gravity center in the descent zone. <br /><br />Karl the Landgrave who was privy to Bessler's wheel remarked on its surprising simplicity. He claimed an apprentice carpenter could construct one. The other designs I've seen online with connecting chords, levers, etc. do not seem so simple. And they do not seem like they can even drive a load which the Bessler wheel did. I also think the "connectedness principle" as mentioned earlier is demonstrated in this Ferris wheel model.anon 19:35noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-35193511406876438252022-08-03T02:11:25.158+01:002022-08-03T02:11:25.158+01:00The problem is that it will take energy to compres...The problem is that it will take energy to compress that spring and it will be taken from the dropping weight. However, a real spring will not return 100% of the energy it receives from the weight back to the weight to raise it back to its starting height. As a result, each time the weight will be raised to a slightly lower height and eventually the weight will just sit on the compressed spring and they will both come to rest under the axle.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-82770786375086089062022-08-02T23:53:10.915+01:002022-08-02T23:53:10.915+01:00Thank you for the welcome and link! When I used t...Thank you for the welcome and link! When I used the word "impact" I was referring to weights interacting with the wheel in any which way causing it to turn. I didn't necessarily mean heavy blows as they don't work according to Bessler. I probably should have provided a better word. These are some eyewitness accounts of the wheel in operation that I found at www.besslerwheel.com :<br /><br />"Weights were heard hitting the side of the wheel going down."<br /><br />"Machine made scratching noises, as if parts or poles moved over one another."<br /><br />"Weights may have landed on slightly warped boards." <br /><br />Here is my imagined, very simplified Bessler wheel: It is like a Ferris wheel with a weight placed inside one of the cabins on the descent side. Before the weight reaches the equilibrium point at the bottom, the (spring-loaded?) cabin precisely flings the weight up and over, landing it onto the cabin above. The action is repeated continuously so the weight is kept inside the descent area even when the other mechanisms pass in and out of it as the wheel turns. The force from the landing weight keeps the wheel moving. The cabin release could be induced by a pole hammer that moves up and down next to the wheel's axis containing catching tab(s). There are diagrams showing the Bessler's wheel driving a stone/grain crushing device and Archimedes pump. Perhaps they are clues as to the wheel's internal mechanism? <br /><br />Bessler's mentioning the wheel being half empty and half full reminded me of the rotating Taichi (yin-yang) symbol now that I think about it...<br /><br />These are just my initial thoughts. I am new to all this and it is all so fascinating! Thank you. anon 19:35noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-64029435252711296592022-08-02T21:48:32.540+01:002022-08-02T21:48:32.540+01:00Welcome to the Bessler pm wheel asylum, anon 19:35...Welcome to the Bessler pm wheel asylum, anon 19:35!<br /><br />There are reasons why impacts on the descending side of a turning wheel cannot work and even Bessler wrote in MT that "no wheel is moved by heavy blows". He probably tried and rejected that approach when he first began chasing pm.<br /><br />In any OOB or "Out Of Balance" wheel design, the center of gravity of the weights will be on the descending side at the start when the wheel is stationary and ready to be released. The trick is to keep it there after the wheel is released and starts to turn so that it does not just rotate right down to the "punctum quietus" or equilibrium point directly vertically below the center of the axle causing the torque to drop to zero. So far since Bessler, every OOB wheel someone has built has done exactly that!<br /><br />Bessler suggests, once at least in "Maschinen Tractate" which we simply call MT, that his "connectedness principle" was needed to keep a wheel OOB, but, of course, he gave no details of what that principle was although most think it involves cords connecting the weight carrying levers together in a special way along with stretched springs to counter balance the weighted levers somehow. Some here also insist that the levers must have the shape of the letter Y to work. <br /><br />Bessler originally intended to reveal the secrets of his pm wheels in four drawings he placed at the end of MT, but in a fit of anger and paranoia, he removed and destroyed just those four drawings. That is why MT, although certainly being interesting to ponder, remains annoyingly incomplete. John here sells a copy of its drawings that have some notes scribbled on some of them by Bessler along with the English translations of the notes.<br /><br />If you haven't visited it yet, you might want to take a look at this site:<br /><br />http://orffyre.com<br /><br />It has a lot of interesting information about Bessler and his wheels.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-36428935933881749792022-08-02T19:35:22.302+01:002022-08-02T19:35:22.302+01:00I just found about about the Bessler wheel a coupl...I just found about about the Bessler wheel a couple of days ago, and I have been thinking about it. I do believe it does work, driven by the force of gravity acting on the weights inside which in one form or another impact the wheel itself, causing it to spin. Here's another clue that isn't brought up often I don't think. Bessler stated that the wheel has to be empty on one side and filled on the other. Taking it literally, I say the weights have to be on the descending side of the wheel AT ALL TIMES. Thus the center of gravity is on that side allowing the wheel to self-turn (notwithstanding the initial push) AND to possess power to perform external work. None of the designs I've seen so far capture that. I do believe it can be done... Here's a quote from Bessler and it evokes the challenge of keeping the weights within the same area (or side) of the spinning wheel:<br /><br />"...and when they come to be placed together, and so arranged one against another that they can never obtain equilibrium, or the punctum quietus which they unceasingly seek in their wonderfully speedy flight, one or other of them must apply its weight at right angles to the axis, which in its turn must also move."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-65124739841293499882022-08-02T17:42:44.007+01:002022-08-02T17:42:44.007+01:00@JB
Agreed, but the Bessler wheel "purists&...@JB <br />Agreed, but the Bessler wheel "purists" out there (apparently now led by Ken B) want to know the exact number of "perpetual motion structures" that Bessler actually used in his wheels. It looks like they have settled on it always being 8, but maybe Bessler varied the amount? <br /><br />For his 4.5 foot Gera wheel maybe it was 5 like John thinks? Next, for the Draschwitz wheel maybe it was 5, 6 or 8? Then, finally, for the Merseburg and Kassal wheels maybe he increased it to 8 or 12 like "Shemp" suggests? If nobody can agree on even the number of mechanisms his wheels each used, what's the chance of anyone ever agreeing on the structures of those mechanisms? Maybe he even changed the mechanisms from wheel to wheel along with the number of mechanisms used?!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-90277845195694453282022-08-02T15:54:46.419+01:002022-08-02T15:54:46.419+01:00I prefer to believe ,that the amount of assemblies...I prefer to believe ,that the amount of assemblies/mechanisms needs to be , whatever it takes.JBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-53480007017516454492022-08-02T15:22:14.750+01:002022-08-02T15:22:14.750+01:00The circumference of a 12 feet diameter wheel is 3...The circumference of a 12 feet diameter wheel is 37.7 feet. If you have 12 levers in it and their end weights are near the rim, then each weight will be 3.14 feet away from the other. The levers Bessler used were probably less than 3.14 long and maybe half that length?. That's enough spacing so that if a lever swung all the way over until it pointed at a nearby lever's pivot, there would still be over a foot of separation between its end weight and the other lever's pivot. That would be more than enough to prevent any collisions between the levers taking place when they swung around their pivots as a wheel turned.<br /><br />The problem is working out the details of the connections between the levers. I also go with the idea of ropes being used. But then there's the problem of the shapes of the levers and where to attach the ropes to them. Seems like there were also springs involved which probably helped support the hanging levers on a wheel's going up side so the going down side levers could more easily lift them up and back toward the rim.<br /><br />John is fixated on there being five levers with weights, but it seems most here prefer the number of levers being eight (with the recent humorous exception of Shemp). What we haven't heard from John yet is what the shape of his levers will be. Does he have clues that give that? He's showed us plenty of pentagons so far but nothing about levers. If he has the clues for the lever shapes then when are we going to finally see them? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-43482574557026078662022-08-02T13:19:33.019+01:002022-08-02T13:19:33.019+01:00Anon 22:33
That is not entirely correct , Bessler...Anon 22:33<br /><br />That is not entirely correct , Bessler did not write that.<br /><br />"but nothing is to be accomplished with his thing unless one acts out of my<br />connectedness principle"<br /><br />He did not say it would make it work.<br /><br />"but here I do not yet wish to show or discuss the figure for the time being"<br /><br />He also said , to the end of that comment , i have not shown it here nor discussed it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-62900355515118846612022-08-02T02:57:02.219+01:002022-08-02T02:57:02.219+01:00This reincarnation of Shemp Howard (who was born S...This reincarnation of Shemp Howard (who was born Samuel Horwitz on March 11th, 1895) will probably not amuse us as much as the original one did. Here's an image of the original Shemp when he got himself wrapped up in a telephone cord and trapped inside of a phone booth in the short titled "The Brideless Groom" made in 1947:<br /><br />https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e3/ShempUgly.jpg?20130609115206<br /><br />The original Shemp died on November 23rd, 1955. He and a friend had just left a boxing match in Los Angeles. They caught a cab to take them to Shemp's home in North Hollywood. Shemp, after lighting up a cigar, suddenly had a fatal heart attack during the trip. He was 70 years old at the time of his death. In about 1 in 3 heart attacks, the only symptom is sudden death!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-10836023898067540752022-08-01T22:33:13.365+01:002022-08-01T22:33:13.365+01:00@anon 13:14
You forgot to mention that Bessler wr...@anon 13:14<br /><br />You forgot to mention that Bessler wrote in MT that Jacob Leupold's pm wheel could work if he was to use Bessler's connectedness principle in it. That wheel had 12 levers in it!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-12101268636102238292022-08-01T21:15:47.461+01:002022-08-01T21:15:47.461+01:00@PMD
That actually makes more sense than the last ...@PMD<br />That actually makes more sense than the last time John tried to explain how you can get eight bumps out of five weights. Lol!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com