tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post5277299580894825643..comments2024-03-27T11:55:27.988+00:00Comments on Bessler's Wheel and the Orffyreus Code: Do we know, or are we Guessing, Speculating or do we have a Hunch about how Bessler's Wheels worked?John Collinshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13274781515636883957noreply@blogger.comBlogger43125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-47060493335049173902015-04-10T04:55:48.517+01:002015-04-10T04:55:48.517+01:00I agree completely, of course. I've always fe...I agree completely, of course. I've always felt that what I'm trying to do consciously somehow would program my unconscious mind to continue working on a problem while my conscious mind was asleep or directed elsewhere. The powers of the human mind are truly amazing and it's difficult to think something like the brain could come into existence through evolution. Yet, science assures us that this miracle did happen that way. If humans are capable of this today, I wonder what, say, an alien being with a brain several times the volume of a human one might be capable of. Perhaps they have evolved beyond the need to any sort of "formal" mathematical research into physics and just use their unconscious abilities to consciously "intuit" their theories. Ken Behrendthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09111248107623433638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-72976819331974451962015-04-09T14:39:56.165+01:002015-04-09T14:39:56.165+01:00More research published today demonstrating that t...More research published today demonstrating that the brain's "default mode network" - one of its most energy intensive systems - remains engaged during rest and sleep, showing much the same kinds of activity as when consciously focused on a specific task:<br /><br />http://medicalxpress.com/news/2015-04-deciphers-noise-human-brain.html<br /><br />This would doubtless be the engine behind those legendary bolt-from-the-blue "Eureka!" moments..Vibratorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18175744698320817417noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-66436899501982373392015-04-09T06:00:34.721+01:002015-04-09T06:00:34.721+01:00At this point I am tempted to reveal some of the D...At this point I am tempted to reveal some of the DT clues that show three decimal place accuracy, but this is not the right time or place for that. Yes, some variation in weight mass is acceptable, but it is a small variation. Bessler mentions the weights being an ounce more or less. For a four pound weight, one ounce represents a variation of one part in sixty four or +/- 1.56%. A frequency distribution of the variations of all of the weights in one of Bessler's one directional wheels would have a peak at almost exactly four pounds per weight. Yes, it's probably the case that the other parameters involved in his design could also have a little variation as well. But, if there is too much, like more than a few percent, wheel performance will begin to deteriorate sharply. Thanks for the well wishes. I'm close to having a runner currently. My levers are shifting smoothly, but still not rapidly enough on the ascending side. The center of mass of the weights and levers, however, is starting to sink at slower and slower rates toward the "punctum quietus". When (if) it stays steady throughout a forty five degree segment of drum rotation, I will know that I have arrived at long last. I'm praying it happens before I reach model #1200.Ken Behrendthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09111248107623433638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-27509201763501864012015-04-09T01:03:19.510+01:002015-04-09T01:03:19.510+01:00I disagree that he gave distances to 3 decimal pla...I disagree that he gave distances to 3 decimal places. it wouldn't be necessary for the operation of his wheels, just as the English pound vs. the local pound wouldn't affect their operation. If values for the weights can have a range, logic tells us that any parts that the weights are attached to have a range of values. What you're not seeing is that if your principle doesn't work on the first try, you're working on the wrong principle. No amount of tweaking spring constants or attachment points or lever shapes or lengths or number of connecting ropes is going to all of a sudden make it work. But you'll find that out soon enough on your 1200th sim. Good luck.dougsuboushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04815735554137542986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-14611419141250691022015-04-08T04:52:33.303+01:002015-04-08T04:52:33.303+01:00All I can say in response is that there are multip...All I can say in response is that there are multiple clues that indicate the weights in the Merseberg wheel were 4 lbs, but they were the "pounds" that Bessler used locally. They were not identical to our present day English pounds. However, interestingly that does not affect the operation of his wheels. He does give distances to three decimal places, but I am convinced these were theoretical values derived from geometric computations. I agree that when one looks at static diagrams of Bessler's wheels' mechanics, it is easy to conclude that they can not work. However, the picture changes when one considers what is going on dynamically. Bessler, by using spring tension, managed to produce an array of interconnected weights whose center of mass was, when the wheel was stationary, located to one side of the wheel's axle. As rotation began, the weights would automatically shift themselves so that their center of mass always remained on one side of the axle. It takes energy to do that and that energy always came from the inward swinging of weights on the ascending side of the wheel and between the 6 o'clock and 9 o'clock positions. When one studies Bessler's approach, one realizes that it is the simplest and most logical approach to constructing an imbalanced pm wheel. I, too, believe that Bessler conceived the principle first, but finding the exact mechanics that would use it was anything by easy. It took him a decades and hundreds of attempts. The average pm wheel builder today has, imo, no idea of the amount of effort he made to achieve success. He truly was one of the most tenacious inventors in history. He needs to be vindicated and receive the recognition he deserves.Ken Behrendthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09111248107623433638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-21334335883379637562015-04-07T22:04:48.126+01:002015-04-07T22:04:48.126+01:00We don't know if they were exactly 4 lbs. They...We don't know if they were exactly 4 lbs. They weren't put on scales.<br /> My hunch is Bessler had no way of measuring anything to 3 decimal places. That is to the nearest 1/1000th. A tape measure has 1/16ths marked on it. It wouldn't make sense to calculate that precisely if he couldn't turn around and build it that precisely. My hunch is he didn't leave any clues that specified distances to 3 decimal places. But whatever floats your boat as they say.<br />Also, I think I mentioned this long ago, geometry tells one if a certain model doesn't work, then any variation of it isn't going to work either. Bessler came up with his principle first, and the model was the easy part.dougsuboushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04815735554137542986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-8379814225914267572015-04-06T08:53:56.944+01:002015-04-06T08:53:56.944+01:00Bessler's design does allow for slight variati...Bessler's design does allow for slight variations in the masses of the weights about a precise value. As we all know by now, that precise value for the Merseberg wheel was 4 lbs per weight. Any variations in the weight masses will average out to this value, but one should try to make his weights as close to this value as possible. However, all other parts of the wheel must have precise values. Some of the clues Bessler gives specify distances accurate to three decimal places! I believe these values were derived from his many geometrical calculations that went into the design he used and were probably not attainable in practice despite his skills as a clockmaker. When building my computer models, I do aim for three decimal place accuracy and believe the closer one gets to this, either directly or through averaging, the closer one will get to a wheel that is as efficient as possible. The bottom line is that, if one makes a wheel with sloppy parameters, then they'd better average out to the required precise values. Or, better yet, aim for the precise values and then one will not have to worry about averaging having to take place.Ken Behrendthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09111248107623433638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-82465693900809659842015-04-06T02:39:38.710+01:002015-04-06T02:39:38.710+01:00Ken said:
"The levers had to have an exact s... Ken said:<br /><br />"The levers had to have an exact shape, the sets of coordinating ropes had to each have an exact length, and the springs attached to each lever had to have an exact spring constant value and be attached to certain points inside of the drum and on the levers."<br /><br />And yet, Bessler said:<br /><br />"design has, in fact, progressed to the point where there is nothing supercritical about the exact disposition of the weights - an ounce more or less, here or there, makes not a scrap of difference to the Wheel, which will hold its course serenely without 'turning a hair'."<br /><br />If an ounce more or less here or there doesn't matter, it follows that there would be more than one shape, length, locations, and constants that would work. If the weights themselves are the pm device, and they don't need to be an exact value, then neither would the levers, ropes, and springs. My hunch is you're on the "wrong track" like other pm researchers. <br />Good luck with your model.<br /><br />dougsuboushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04815735554137542986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-47341386441798741112015-04-06T01:34:21.326+01:002015-04-06T01:34:21.326+01:00Actually, in order to produce a net external torqu...Actually, in order to produce a net external torque, the center of mass of the weights and levers inside of one of Bessler's one directional wheels had to continuously fall. But this falling process as no ordinary one, because, just as soon as the center of mass fell even a tiny amount, it was again lifted back to its starting position. The energy necessary for that instantaneous resetting was provided by weights that swung about the pivots of their levers on the wheel's ascending side as they traveled from a drum's 6 o'clock to 9 o'clock positions. As a wheel turned and delivered mechanical energy to its environment, the mass of the weights and levers would slowly diminish over time. In order to produce the pm effect or to keep the center of mass of the weights and levers always on the descending side of a wheel as it rotated, certain precise conditions had to be achieved. The levers had to have an exact shape, the sets of coordinating ropes had to each have an exact length, and the springs attached to each lever had to have an exact spring constant value and be attached to certain points inside of the drum and on the levers. If these conditions were not all achieved, the the center of mass of the weights and levers would rapidly sink to a location below the axle (also known as "keeling") as the axle torque dropped to zero. The challenge for anybody trying to reverse engineer Bessler's secret wheel mechanism is to find all of these factors and then incorporate them into a model, either real or virtual, of a wheel. I can personally attest to the extreme difficulty of finding out what all of these factors are. If a single factor is not known, then one can not find success...ever! But, by the grace of God and Bessler, there is, I believe, a single source of information about these factors in the Bessler literature. No, it is not in GB, AP, or MT. But it is in DT and is provided the minute you open the work. We must remember that DT is different from Bessler's other works in a certain sense. He apparently wrote it at the request of Count Karl who wanted Bessler to "explain" how his wheels worked. That explanation went far beyond the usual vague descriptions of performance and mechanics that Bessler delivers in his other works and extends into the very heart of the secret mechanism he found. No, you will not find a working schematic in DT that you can run to your shop and begin using as a guide for you next built. What you will find, however, are sets of numbers that represent angles, distances, and spring tensions. Everything one needs to build one of Bessler's wheels is there. But, it is there in highly symbolic form that will require much, much effort to accurately decode and one will have no hope of doing that unless he is tirelessly building and rebuilding wheels during the process. To expedite matters, I do my "building" on a computer monitor. If I find success and decide to do a book on the subject, about half of it will be devoted to a clear and accurate description of the secret pm mechanism Bessler found and the other half will be devoted to an analysis of the many DT clues that led me to the rediscovery. Those clues are almost as fascinating as the wheels themselves!Ken Behrendthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09111248107623433638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-59895125354875264572015-04-05T15:28:20.246+01:002015-04-05T15:28:20.246+01:00Weights can only fall to their lowest point in the...Weights can only fall to their lowest point in the wheel once! After that, they have to be lifted.justsomeonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09879749344641415029noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-66249265603773592082015-04-05T15:21:49.295+01:002015-04-05T15:21:49.295+01:00Weights were lifted by the wheel outside the wheel...Weights were lifted by the wheel outside the wheel using ropes and pulleys, he never said weights were being lifted inside the wheel .<br />Nothing was being lifted inside the bessler wheels . The truth is weights were always fallling .<br /> - TGIIAOTWEU -Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-63485939851826886622015-04-05T15:12:08.691+01:002015-04-05T15:12:08.691+01:00Lifting weights ! Weights are always falling, he s...Lifting weights ! Weights are always falling, he said so himself .<br /><br /> - TGIIAOTWEU -Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-14556046242960476402015-04-05T14:52:06.783+01:002015-04-05T14:52:06.783+01:00"One man will not change the world, but one m..."One man will not change the world, but one man can communicate information ...<br />which will change the world. "kołodziążnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-43780752830903236022015-04-05T14:03:22.160+01:002015-04-05T14:03:22.160+01:00Ken I took it literally on face value, meaning tha...Ken I took it literally on face value, meaning that if you try to design something that is too focussed on lifting heavy weights, you are going to end up with wheel that keels at the root.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09382598587449620797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-53837376142800174562015-04-05T11:56:09.379+01:002015-04-05T11:56:09.379+01:00I'm content with translating "der Geitz&q...I'm content with translating "der Geitz" as "greed" although it can have other slightly different meanings depending upon context. Obviously, Bessler did not perceive himself as greedy despite the huge payment he demanded for his secret pm design. After all, he had earned that amount because of the enormous effort he had to make to achieve success. But, a greedy person wants to obtain wealth he did not earn and that would apply to those trying to coax the secret out of Bessler without compensating him for it. By Bessler's standards, his detractors fit into that evil category because they seemed to be trying to infuriate him to the point where he would openly reveal the secret just to prove that they were wrong. At that point, of course, they would then immediately begin copying his design and, perhaps, modifying it a bit to make it "theirs" without giving him any credit or money. Fortunately for Bessler, he had a very powerful person backing up his claim to having a genuine pm wheel. I've often wondered, however, what would have happened if Bessler had sold his invention and it was then demonstrated to the world of science at the time that it was, in fact, genuine. It would be nice to see what Bessler's detractors would say then. Most likely they would have apologized for doubting his word, but excused themselves on the grounds that they had not seen enough demonstrated to prove to them that the wheels were genuine. Ken Behrendthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09111248107623433638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-91114322258744893072015-04-05T09:57:07.119+01:002015-04-05T09:57:07.119+01:00Something I've been meaning to say for several...Something I've been meaning to say for several years in connection with the phrase "Der Geitz ist eine Wurtzel Böß", is that when ever I've tested the translation, the meaning comes out as " that meanness is a an evil root", or "Stinginess is the root of evil". I suspect that Bessler used the word 'meanness' to incorporate the initial letter in Gartner's last name. Having said that there are two other words which mean greed and both begin with 'G' - 'Gier', and 'Geldgier'. ????<br /><br />JCJohn Collinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13274781515636883957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-7307756809078981402015-04-05T00:16:55.314+01:002015-04-05T00:16:55.314+01:00You could be right Trevor. I too have often though...You could be right Trevor. I too have often thought about this statement. Of course you have to know the correct meaning of 'Greed'.Zoelrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13243774767540915176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-90795868848150680852015-04-04T23:45:02.671+01:002015-04-04T23:45:02.671+01:00We want to see your working wheel first, Trevor, w...We want to see your working wheel first, Trevor, what are you waiting for?, video it and put it up on youtube.<br /> -TGIIAOTWEU-<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-12920104040257406122015-04-04T21:03:45.005+01:002015-04-04T21:03:45.005+01:00Oh, yes, that line from AP about greed being an &q...Oh, yes, that line from AP about greed being an "evil root". The original German is:<br /><br />"Der Geitz ist eine Wurtzel Böß"<br /><br />Note that it contains the letters G, W, and B which just happen to be those in the surnames of three of Bessler's most annoying detractors: Gärtner, Wagner and Borlach<br /><br />I think this was Bessler's way of saying that his detractors were greedy in that they wanted to know the secret of his wheels without paying for it. However, there is another possible interpretation for it. By "greed", Bessler could be referring to the search for pm since pm, as understood in Bessler's times, would be, literally, getting something (energy) for nothing. Perhaps Bessler is using this line to describe the search for pm as evil because it is an obsession driven by one's desire to make a fortune, become famous, etc. And, the pursuit is one that actually drains one's physical and mental strength, his time and financial resources, and undermines his interpersonal relationships. I think Bessler's wife complained that all he thought about was his wheels! In today's world, he would have been quickly divorced and spent most of his life as a loner type. Anyway, I think Bessler derived much pleasure from having succeeded in building a working imbalanced pm wheel while everyone else had failed. But, the pursuit also caused him much anguish. At times he might even have felt like he was possessed by a demon and that, of course, would be disgusting to a man as religious as Bessler was.<br /><br />Personally, if I am lucky enough to successfully reverse engineer Bessler's invention, I don't expect to make any "serious" money off of it. In fact, presenting the material will actually cost me some money. Right now I don't know how many thousands of hours I've invested in this pursuit over the decades and I know I'll never see a penny in compensation for any of that. I can well appreciate why Bessler was so concerned about receiving such a huge sum of money for his invention. The best that he will ever get from his efforts is to have future researchers finally prove that he did what he said he had done and, finally, clear his name of any "hint or suspicion" of fraud. He needs to get far more historical recognition than he currently has, imo.Ken Behrendthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09111248107623433638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-35569631293019709172015-04-04T19:37:38.888+01:002015-04-04T19:37:38.888+01:00It does not matter if it's not a Bessler wheel...It does not matter if it's not a Bessler wheel in the pure sense of the word, if it runs by itself after a push it is still Perpetual motion so what are you waiting for,... Announce it!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09382598587449620797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-54546052838816766532015-04-04T19:10:52.123+01:002015-04-04T19:10:52.123+01:00People are looking into its performance. I will in...People are looking into its performance. I will in touch.Uneqkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00809723687096913866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-54170841137945035632015-04-04T18:54:58.013+01:002015-04-04T18:54:58.013+01:00Of course we won't know what a Bessler wheel i...Of course we won't know what a Bessler wheel is until someone builds a 'working wheel' based on clues left by Bessler in his written works or portraits.Zoelrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13243774767540915176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-51037836076311513792015-04-04T18:47:44.506+01:002015-04-04T18:47:44.506+01:00Bessler's later wheels were not self-starters....Bessler's later wheels were not self-starters. They needed a push to get started, then sped up to around 20rpm. If your wheel continues to run after an initial push, then you may indeed have a genuine Bessler wheel.Zoelrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13243774767540915176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-30388577361338516412015-04-04T17:09:21.334+01:002015-04-04T17:09:21.334+01:00I have a machine that runs but you have to push it...I have a machine that runs but you have to push it to start. So I'll been informed it's not a Blessler's wheel, so it doesn't count.<br /><br />However I'm trying to convert it into a bessler wheel. I will keep in touch.<br />Uneqkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00809723687096913866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-29192586431432478462015-04-04T16:20:45.095+01:002015-04-04T16:20:45.095+01:00Who has a working wheel?Who has a working wheel?justsomeonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09879749344641415029noreply@blogger.com