tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post5321797555298873072..comments2024-03-27T11:55:27.988+00:00Comments on Bessler's Wheel and the Orffyreus Code: Why the Kassel wheel turned so slowly and what this could mean for us today.John Collinshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13274781515636883957noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-47955989809349645472011-11-09T23:13:05.531+00:002011-11-09T23:13:05.531+00:00One proposed tax plan that really gave me a chuckl...One proposed tax plan that really gave me a chuckle was mentioned last year in the news.<br /><br />It would have put a tax on emails with the money going to the US Postal Service. That's right, they wanted to get paid for a service they did NOT provide! They wanted it to make up for the money that they were not making on postage stamps because so many people were using emails instead.<br /><br />I haven't heard much about this proposed tax lately, but assume it has been dropped because nobody could stop laughing long enough after hearing about it to enact the legislation to make it a reality!technoguynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-59008045328003549132011-11-09T18:11:11.204+00:002011-11-09T18:11:11.204+00:00We pay a sewer fee in addition to a water bill. So...We pay a sewer fee in addition to a water bill. So, we are taxed for our waste here. The less we flush , the less water that has to pass through the treatment facility and the less our fee. It's a price for a service ,if you don't have a septic tank like we used to.<br />The air we breathe is cleaner because of the Clean Air act which costs industries money to implement which eventually gets passed along in the form of higher prices. So, in that sense, we are paying for the air we breathe.Dougnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-15267183010111601992011-11-09T17:24:40.606+00:002011-11-09T17:24:40.606+00:00technoguy,..There is no way the govt.can tax you f...technoguy,..There is no way the govt.can tax you for energy that is free and non polluting.<br />The most they can do is charge you vat.on the materials.Trevor Daunceynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-56150445535368001712011-11-09T17:24:26.463+00:002011-11-09T17:24:26.463+00:00I've got the drawings but perhaps you can send...I've got the drawings but perhaps you can send some text to put with them?<br /><br />JCJohn Collinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13274781515636883957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-7555031433814834892011-11-09T17:04:19.000+00:002011-11-09T17:04:19.000+00:00I can do it for you, Andre. Send them to me with ...I can do it for you, Andre. Send them to me with the text and I'll publish it here.<br /><br />JCJohn Collinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13274781515636883957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-59649103903894046032011-11-09T13:13:33.647+00:002011-11-09T13:13:33.647+00:00No problem, but I'd like to publish not only t...No problem, but I'd like to publish not only the text but also the drawings I made, and explain the idea in detail with accompanying text. Is there a way to publish the drawings?Andrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13706263884645654930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-84333261158929470202011-11-09T06:56:11.530+00:002011-11-09T06:56:11.530+00:00Yes please publish our discussion here, Andre. I ...Yes please publish our discussion here, Andre. I have no problem with that.<br /><br />JCJohn Collinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13274781515636883957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-53909534949425148552011-11-09T05:56:00.769+00:002011-11-09T05:56:00.769+00:00@ JC
I'd certainly like to see what Andre has...@ JC<br /><br />I'd certainly like to see what Andre has come up with. If it looks plausible, maybe I could persuade a very skilled friend of mine to make a computer model of it to see if it actually works.<br /><br /><br />@ Trevor<br /><br />Somehow, I suspect that, one way or another, we'll be paying through the nose for energy for the rest of our lives. If everyone actually had free energy devices powering their homes, their local governments would be heavily taxing them to make up for the loss of their tax revenue on the current "UNfree" sources of energy we purchase. <br /><br />It won't be too long before we're taxed for the very air we breathe and the waste we excrete! LOL!technoguynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-10423757279870898482011-11-09T04:37:29.221+00:002011-11-09T04:37:29.221+00:00After all thats said and done I personally would b...After all thats said and done I personally would be prepared to dedicate an entire basement room to a bank of Bessler wheels in order to be entirely independant from the electricity grid.<br />Energy is becomming our most costly commodity.I can't wait to be free me from the petrol cost burden by using electric vehicle transport.Trevor Daunceynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-23658368165848680682011-11-09T04:30:52.688+00:002011-11-09T04:30:52.688+00:00Andre, Andre...
He he he...Andre, Andre...<br /><br />He he he...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-41439146974082998012011-11-09T03:03:40.500+00:002011-11-09T03:03:40.500+00:00Question for John: is there a possibility for me t...Question for John: is there a possibility for me to publish here what we privately have discussed recently? I want to share it with these guys.Andrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13706263884645654930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-37614454461981301182011-11-08T21:10:46.295+00:002011-11-08T21:10:46.295+00:00@ Trevor
Like you, I'm not that concerned wit...@ Trevor<br /><br />Like you, I'm not that concerned with the power output of Bessler's wheels because, in their present form, I don't see them as a solution to our energy problems. The fact that they were so weak indicates that they will only be of limited commercial value. But, afterall, they did use gravity which is the weakest of nature's forces, so this is understandable. Hopefully, once we understand how his weight driven wheels worked, we can go on to develop more powerful versions that use the other forces of nature.<br /><br />However, by knowing the power output of a wheel and the masses of its weights, it's posssible to estimate the location of the CoM of the weights. That information can then be important in determining what the static arrangement of the weights within a drum was. That information, in turn, can give one an idea of HOW the weighted levers within a wheel must shift about during drum rotation so as to keep the CoM where it is on the wheel's descending side at all times. After alot of additional work, one might just find that he has the details of the Connectedness Principle!technoguynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-56383196287833387112011-11-08T17:23:49.581+00:002011-11-08T17:23:49.581+00:00Who cares what the output was,Perpetual motion is ...Who cares what the output was,Perpetual motion is Perpetual motion.In anycase most engines need some sort of flywheel to smooth out the dead spots.<br />It does not matter what the output will be,success will you famous,so get to it!Trevor Daunceynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-28201825030178576332011-11-07T22:17:40.779+00:002011-11-07T22:17:40.779+00:00The force of gravity, when continuously applied ov...The force of gravity, when continuously applied over time, can do some amazing things.<br /><br />Bessler's wheels had very low torque, but they also acted like flywheels and could accumulate considerable angular momentum by the time they reached their maximum terminal rotation rates. <br /><br />Imagine the surprise of witnesses seeing a 60 lb weight begin rising from the ground level of a building to a second floor window when its rope was suddenly attached to a wheel's axle. The wheel could, by carefully picking the moment to attach the rope to its axle, even be made to come to a dead stop with the load weight hanging motionless outside the window. The load would then begin dropping at the same nearly consant rate (feet per second) back down to the ground. <br /><br />When it reached the ground, the weight would stop dropping and its looped end would then fall away from the peg on the wheel's axle. The wheel, however, would continue turning and, again, when the looped end of load weight's rope was reattached to the axle peg, the entire process could be repeated. This could be done over and over so that over time one could imagine a single wheel lifting TONS of weight!<br /><br />Yes, even a "weak" wheel outputting only a few tens of watts of power can do some amazing things if the conditions of the demonstrations are carefully set up.<br /><br />IMO, Bessler, aside from being a crafting / mechanical genius, was a master showman in the rank P. T. Barnum and Houdini!technoguynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-83869278926577960362011-11-07T19:13:35.288+00:002011-11-07T19:13:35.288+00:00Now,now!Now,now!Trevor Daunceynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-85026569712305950272011-11-07T15:42:25.129+00:002011-11-07T15:42:25.129+00:00That's amazing. Who knew gravity possessed suc...That's amazing. Who knew gravity possessed such force?Dougnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-85218664624237334252011-11-07T06:03:30.862+00:002011-11-07T06:03:30.862+00:00@ Doug
Ordinarily, I would agree with you.
BUT, ...@ Doug<br /><br />Ordinarily, I would agree with you.<br /><br />BUT, when CF interferes with the very processes by which a device such as one of Bessler's wheels produces its torque and power, it can have a BIG affect on those.<br /><br />If CF did NOT affect the power output of a Bessler wheel by constantly reducing it as wheel rotation rate increased, then one would expect a wheel to constantly accelerate until it tore itself to pieces. <br /><br />Fortunately, due to disabling effects of CF, this did NOT happen.technoguynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-26878785100310597972011-11-07T05:52:11.088+00:002011-11-07T05:52:11.088+00:00Doug, let's see what John thinks of the design...Doug, let's see what John thinks of the design I came up with. If he thinks it's viable, I'll post full details here including drawings, with detailed explanation. To answer your question: it's a consequence of the way Bessler arranged the mechanism - assuming I am correct.Andrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13706263884645654930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-14523381416874290332011-11-07T03:22:21.338+00:002011-11-07T03:22:21.338+00:00Technodude, centrifugal force has no effect on tor...Technodude, centrifugal force has no effect on torque, positive or negative.Trevor is right. It is in the wrong direction for producing or consuming torque.<br /><br />Andre, why does it show that the wheel can't move faster than a certain speed?Dougnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-67831107292055254822011-11-06T08:03:06.971+00:002011-11-06T08:03:06.971+00:00The remark of P47 (Euclidean geometry, from Anon) ...The remark of P47 (Euclidean geometry, from Anon) made me think. I think I may have found something interesting, consistent with Bessler's number-5 obsession, and many other clues as well - including John's idea of kiiking. I will send a couple of sketches and ideas to John, let's see what he thinks of it. Maybe we're getting close.<br /><br />Incidentally, it will also show why the wheel cannot move faster than a certain speed.Andrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13706263884645654930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-77754316460707613922011-11-06T05:02:22.524+00:002011-11-06T05:02:22.524+00:00Correction:
Above I wrote:
"Actually, each ...Correction:<br /><br />Above I wrote:<br /><br />"Actually, each side of a wheel always contained 8 working weights mounted on levers..."<br /><br />Each side of a TWO directional wheel would contain 8 weights (total of 16 weights present in the whole wheel), but only 4 of them (total of 8 for the whole wheel) would be in use when the wheel was in motion in either of its two possible directions.<br /><br />In the case of a ONE directional wheel, EACH side would contain only 4 weights (total of 8 for the whole wheel) and ALL of them would be in use when the wheel was in motion in its "preferred" direction.<br /><br />Sorry for the confusion. Most of the time when I write about the mechanics of Bessler's wheels, I am referring to his ONE directional wheels unless otherwise stated.technoguynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-81691499246587658212011-11-06T04:35:39.101+00:002011-11-06T04:35:39.101+00:00@ Doug
From studying Bessler's writings, I am...@ Doug<br /><br />From studying Bessler's writings, I am NOT convinced that he ever actually lied about anything! He just, for obvious reasons, did not tell the WHOLE truth. The real problem is that we have less than perfect translations (sorry, JC) and a tendency to interpret them in terms of our own particular pet theories du jour.<br /><br />"Would be mobile makers" ARE right in thinking that an overbalanced wheel will turn and output energy. The problem is that all of their designs, except for that of Bessler, will only do this briefly until they achieve balance. NO such design will ever work continuously unless it can ALSO continuously keep its weights' CoM on a wheel's descending side. That's where that ALL IMPORTANT "Connectedness Principle" comes in. Bessler had this principle (found via tremendous effort AND luck!) and no one else did. Hopefully, this situation will change soon.<br /><br />"One side is heavy and full and the other empty and light, just as it should be." merely refers to the CoM of one of his wheels ALWAYS being located on the wheel's descending side. Actually, each side of a wheel always contained 8 working weights mounted on levers, but, through shifting, it was as though ALL of their mass was located on the descending side. <br /><br />Bessler never wrote that his PM "movement" could be found in his writings. In the Intro to MT he only says that by combining PARTS of the machines illustrated with a "DISCERNING EYE" that it would, indeed, be possible to BEGIN to look for a movement in them and finally find one.<br /><br />I agree with this statement. There ARE many clues to the PM movement Bessler found in his drawings. But, one will only make sense of them (that is, decode them) if he actually has a complete working wheel in front of him or if he is ACTIVELY building (sorry "armchair philosopers")and about 99% of the way to finding the design Bessler used. If one does not yet know where these clues are located or what they mean, then he is either COMPLETELY on the wrong track OR he is on the right track, but still VERY far from the destination to which he wishes to arrive (which is, of course, the SUCCESSFUL duplication of Bessler's design).technoguynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-84555700775940555312011-11-06T02:53:48.596+00:002011-11-06T02:53:48.596+00:00He also said in addition to the " gravitating...He also said in addition to the " gravitating to the center..." quote , "Many would-be Mobile-makers think that if they can arrange for some of the weights to be a little more distant from the center than the others, then the thing will surely revolve."<br /><br />So which is it? He contradicts his own words.<br />Or this:<br />"On one side it is heavy and full; on the other empty and light, just as it should be."<br />Full AND empty? If that's the case, he is being intentionally cryptic, I guess, because of his critics. Or maybe that's the secret.<br />Nothing he said can be trusted as revealing anything about how the wheel worked. He said the movement can be found In the drawings or somewhere.<br />"the movement". Not the mechanism, "the movement". That's a good clue, it implies the "why" for the wheels, but not the "how". Most of the drawings show overbalanced wheels, that may be why the wheels worked, but it doesn't have to mean HOW they worked. It might not be the mechanical solution everyone wants it to be. It might be an energy transformation solution.Dougnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-47386214063327679192011-11-05T19:51:53.167+00:002011-11-05T19:51:53.167+00:00CF has no effect on a wheel's torque? Not lik...CF has no effect on a wheel's torque? Not likely!! <br /><br />Bessler tells us that the weights on his wheels' ascending sides would "gravitate toward the axle" and then "climb back again" toward the rim (later he declines to give the "details" of this process). This apparently was the basic process which continuously kept the CoM of a wheel's weights on its descending side during rotation so as to create the wheel's torque and power.<br /><br />CF DIRECTLY interferes with the first part of the process above. As a wheel's speed increased so would the CF acting on all of its weights and it would become more and more difficult for ascending side weights to "gravitate" toward the axle. They would still move toward the axle, but, in order to compensate for CF to do so, their levers would have to rise even higher before they began to "gravitate" toward the axle.<br /><br />The result of this was that the CoM of all of a wheel's weights (always locatedon the wheel's descending side) would slowly begin to rotate around and under the axle as the wheel's speed increased The wheel's torque and power would then both decreasing toward zero. <br /><br />Therefore, CF interference IMMEDIATELY began negatively affecting an accelerating wheel's energy output, but also eventually served a useful purpose. It resulted in a maximum terminal rotation rate which would then keep a wheel's drum from being torn to pieces by CF.technoguynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4862207778089432835.post-73556409743766583562011-11-05T15:51:23.754+00:002011-11-05T15:51:23.754+00:00Doug you are right,..CF build up could not influen...Doug you are right,..CF build up could not influence the torque,but I believe that CF was used to reset the pendulums which once reset would gravitate with the wheel to the bottom and the whole process would begin again.<br />Even my 1 meter wheel at 1 rev /second wants to jump off the ground.Can you imagine a larger wheel at the same rpm the angular gravitation increases exponetially.Trevor Daunceynoreply@blogger.com