I mentioned previously that we should concentrate on the WA (work-around) proposal and deal with the result of that before we try to design a method of incorporating it in a working wheel. The reason being, that even though I’m confident that the concept is right, I’m not a hundred per cent confident on how to incorporate it in a working wheel.
Returning to my previous post, the point I’ve tried to explain, so far unsuccessfully is this. In the image below, repeated from my previous blog, the two blue levers show the start and end positions as if they were scissor mechanisms with a weight on the end if each.
Sorry I omitted the weights, but compare the blue levers with the red ones and it is obvious thar the blue ones with a weight on the end, finish in a more favourable position, with
each weight further back from their starting position causing the wheel to turn forward a lot more than with the red ones.
In the image below, also copied from my previous post, the pink scissor mechanisms expand to put the weight near the outer edge of the wheel and the following radius with its own scissor mechanism ready to fall. The falling mechanism will naturally expand under the influence of gravity. The cost is continuous and the same as if it fell straight down. But in this case the weight moves sideways and downwards. So at no cost in gravitational energy, the design has increased the amount of torque available for lifting the fallen weight.
I wrote “no cost”, but there is a small and acceptable cost; the falling weight falls more slowly, as Fischer von Erlach stated that 'the sound of about eight weights may be heard landing gently on the side toward which the wheel turned'. So the scissor mechanism does slow the fall down a little, but achieves the desired end result, more torque.
So when people ask, “where does the extra energy to lift the fallen weight come from?” The answer is there, thanks to the scissor mechanism falling further back against the wheel’s forward rotation and of course the fallen weight’s roll back from its landing position, towards its next fall.
Remember each mechanism is linked to another one, so as one weight falls, another weight is lifted, moving the centre of gravity backwards, over and over again.
This repeated falling and lifting results in an incredibly smooth rotation, as noted several times in the witnesses recordings of the tests. Because a weight falls, generating rotation, at the same time lifting another weight which removes any braking or balancing effect, the wheel is continuously out of balance and hunting for equilibrium.
The initiator of rotation seems to be the falling of the first weight, that is arguably not necessarily true. If the weight has not fallen yet, then the previous one must have fallen, therefore the wheel is still out off balance, hence the need to apply a brake to stop its continuous turning.
In my next post I’m going to show you how I found the design is all the mechanisms within Bessler’s images.
JC
Do you know yet when you'll have the connecting cords installed? That would eliminate the guesswork.
ReplyDeleteI’m going to show you where Bessler provides clues in a day or so. There are three images and one textual clue which seems to place one important cord connection at the upper right radius, roughly one-thirty on a clock face. The lift is shown as thirty degrees..
DeleteJC
Well done John. I am curious... many years ago, I tried a configuration/movement similar to your green rod & weights (but I didn't consider integrating the stork bill). This came to me based on Bessler's reference to "children paying among the broken columns with a heavy club" (paraphrase). I envisioned children moving from column top to column top with a pole (sort of a pole-vault lift/tramsfer). Did that clue occur to you in this design?
DeleteYes it did, although it took years before I could find a use for them!
DeleteJC
1:30 on a clock face is one cord connection, ok. What about the other ones? If you can’t make them on your build ,just tell us where they are and the sim guys can do their thing and we’ll know what potential it has to run.
DeleteI am trying to understand what this "workaround" is. Is it connecting of those two ideas?
ReplyDelete1) When falling down, weights are pushed horizontally further away from center of wheel by their own weight
This is accomplished through scissors mechanism.
At the end, weight has much greater torque, and it is solely because of its own movement caused by gravity.
2) Weights are directly connected to each other, so when first weight moves, it pushes second weight up
This should restore original position of second weight when it was near the center of wheel.
Or am I missing something?
1) imagine a ball rolling down a slope to the right in a channel groove.
DeleteWhen the weight falls it pulls rather than pushes another weight up but only about 30 degrees, which is all it needs according to Bessler.
DeleteJC
That sounds as acheivable thing, I do not even think it is needed for weights to be directly connected, you can have small ramp for weights at the bottom, and when first weight shifts horizontally to generate much greater torque, it will be enough for second weight to be pulled up. However, I must say that I still fail to see, how moving weight up only 30 degrees will restore original position of second weight. If it is not moved all the way back, it simply will not be back, and it will generate greater counterclockwise torque.
DeleteTHIRD ATTEMPT at simming the "Bessler workaround"
ReplyDeleteJC wrote "Remember each mechanism is linked to another one, so as one weight falls, another weight is lifted, moving the centre of gravity backwards, over and over again."
That sounds good in principle, but my latest sim doesn't show that happening fast enough in practice to provide a constant cw torque to the wheel. In the gif of the sim linked to below notice that the shifting motions of the two scissor mechanisms happens as a wheel radius containing the anchor pivot of a scissor (marked by a small red diamond shape) passes a critical point outside of the wheel (marked by a red triangle). The lifting of one weight and the extension of the other weight by the two scissors does, briefly, move the cog of the two weights back onto the wheel's descending side which is good. But, look how long it takes for the next scissor's radius anchor pivot to reach that red triangle so that the next scissor's extension can repeat the process. By the time that would happen, the cog of the two previously shifted scissor mechanisms is already located way over onto the wheel's ascending side and will result in a lot of ccw torque which will stop the wheel from turning cw. The wheel only continues to turn cw in my sim because it is being driven at a constant speed of 1 rpm by a motor attached to its axle. Here's a gif of that sim in which the extending scissor's parts have been made transparent. Watch the movement of the small black and white symbol which indicates the location of the cog of the two scissor mechanisms and the wheel that carries them (which weighs 10 pounds while each of the yellow weights is 2 pounds and the weights of the scissor sections is negligible). Their cog spends most of its time on the wheel's ascending side providing ccw torque that will prevent cw motion.
https://i.postimg.cc/1XTHDVZ5/B-Workaround-COG-Analysis.gif
Although my sim only shows two of the scissor mechanisms, I seriously doubt if this workaround principle, assuming it is valid, can work with a wheel containing only five scissors. Maybe if the number of scissors was increased to, say, 8, then it might have a chance of working. But, if that was done, then there's the problem of not having enough room near a wheel's rim for a scissor mechanism to expand and move its end weight farther back onto the wheel's descending side. Overcoming that obstacle will require making the scissor mechanisms smaller and having them back shift their end weights through a shorter distance.
Nice simming. But, I suspect that you are not showing John anything he doesn't already know. He's probably done exactly with his wheel what your sim shows for the two bottom scissors and he knows he cannot get them to work. Now, I notice he sounds like he's getting ready to add some new cords to the mix to try to finally get his runner. This by him above convinced me:
Delete"There are three images and one textual clue which seems to place one important cord connection at the upper right radius, roughly one-thirty on a clock face."
Yep, time for more cords. But, what will he do if they don't work either? Even more cords? Something tells me you're going to be doing a lot more sims for this blog!
Thanks, anon 23:32. I suspect you are right and my sims so far are only going over old ground as far as JC is concerned. However, now with this new talk of his about extra levers and cords being used in an effort to save the Bessler workaround principle, I've begun setting up a wm2d model wheel which will show how ALL five scissor mechanisms perform together no matter how many extra cords he decides to add to them. If the workaround principle is valid, then in time it should become obvious. If not, then in time that should also become obvious. I was a lot more enthusiastic about his workaround principle until I saw the results of my third attempt sim above. To me it shows how one cannot rely on what he thinks must work, but only on what accurate sims or builds show actually works. Imo, he's not there yet, but I wish him luck with it.
DeleteThank you so much for the sims, I wish I had the skills to make them. Yes my models have been making similar moves.
DeleteJC
>> Background Experimental Information For Everyone's Consideration - Comparing Standard Pulley Arrangements , In Relation To Distance & Velocity Over Time - Largely Self Explanatory .
Deletehttps://i.postimg.cc/W4JtnqmG/Pulley-Speed-Distance-Test-Feb-2026.gif
@anon 08:15...your link doesn't work...sounded interesting though.
DeleteThe link is working again. Postimages must have had a server problem.
DeleteI had some time this morning and managed to finish the setup for the full five scissor mechanism wheel. It's various scissors still have to be put into their proper orientations and the connecting cords installed. After that, I'll be able to again use the motor to run the model and we can see what's happening to the cog of its five weights. If it does not stay on the wheel's descending side, then this particular version of the wheel won't be a runner. Here's a quick image of a portion of the wm2d workspace showing the setup of the wheel:
Deletehttps://postimg.cc/1nfxP9Tq
Since I will probably be posting future updated versions of JC's wheel as he continues to modify it to try to make it work, I guess I need to pick a username so everyone won't keep referring to me as anon such and such a time. I think I'll use the name "The Sim Man" or "TSM" for short. It reminds me a little of the character from that 1934 movie titled "The Thin Man".
The Sim Man
Anonymous 12 February 2026 at 09:19 said > @anon 08:15...your link doesn't work...sounded interesting though.
Deletethese are best case frictionless experiments . weights can only move down or up if there is a net loss of GPE , otherwise they will not move . the pulley systems constrain the distance ratios and depending on the weight ratio this constrains the rate of losing GPE over time . the velocities of each weight at any time is set by the relative weight ratio with its pair and the net loss of GPE at any time interval > 2 near equal weights on a standard pulley will convert very little net GPE loss into equivalent KE gain apportioned between the 2 weights . when the weights are closely matched they will lose little net GPE , gain little shared KE , and have a very small velocity difference because KE is velocity dependent . when they are mismatched the velocities will be proportionately higher . this loss of net GPE caps KE gain and velocity gains .
In the reference frame , Conservation of Energy & Conservation of Momentum Laws in action .
DeleteHi, TSM! I'm not into simming, but your sim of JC's five weight wheel looks very precise and reminds me of a carefully cut gemstone. I'll be looking forward to seeing what your testing of it shows. My focus is on finding clues in the Bessler drawings and I was inspired to do so by another member here called SoS (which stands for "Sayer of Sooths"). He is truly like the Sherlock Holmes of Bessler clues! Anyway, I'm not a believer in JC's approach for various reasons such as it not using Y shaped levers, but I do admire his ability to stick with it despite all of the people here telling him it is a nonrunner. Even if it's not actually Bessler's design, maybe it can still also work and help improve out world somehow.
DeleteDisciple of SoS
(I'm called DoSoS here)
On the wheel there are two faces, so you can put five mechanisms on one side and five on the other.
ReplyDeleteThe auctions are at ten, who says better?
Let John explain it to you with this recent video clip. Each of his fingers represents one scissor mech and each hand represents a one way wheel inside of a two way wheel's larger drum. If one can count to five one each of his two hands, then he can fully understand the "Collins-Bessler Wheel". So, a two way Bessler wheel contained a total of ten scissor mechs. Just as his two hands are mirror images of each other when put together, so too are the two five scissor mech wheels inside of a Bessler two way wheel. Simple!
Deletehttps://streamable.com/7zejep
Brilliant! I guess it’s a sign of fame or notoriety when you get AI’d!
DeleteJC
I thought it was the "Bessler - Collins Wheel", but now it's being called the "Collins - Bessler Wheel"?! Yes, it seems like you are moving up in the pm world. Maybe eventually it will just be called the "Collins Only Wheel" because some psychic will tell you that if you had been born before Bessler, then YOU would have surely discovered it first and no one would ever have known Bessler ever existed! In other words, it was only an accident of what year you were born in that denied you your rightful place in history as the FIRST to find real pm. How unfair destiny can be.
DeleteYes I see that in the comment at 08:00, it’s wrong and I don’t like it. I’d never put my name before Bessler’s or instead.
DeleteJC
anyone interested in saving that five second ai clip of JC "explaining" his five weight wheel should download and save it as soon as possible because streamable.com only hosts mp4 clips for 48 hours for free after that they are permanently deleted.
DeleteAbsolutely incredible! A new invention called the "Telepacam" has been developed that actually lets us now view the mental energy given off by the human brain during intense thinking! It was recently used on John! It shows a continuous outpouring of mental energy from his head as he tries to come up with a new way to make his "Bessler workaround" finally work. Be careful, John, that your brain doesn't start to fry! Take a break every once in a while.
Deletehttps://streamable.com/eoluq4
Damn! That video is scary. I was attending my church one evening and they brought in a woman who was possessed by an evil spirit to get her exorcised. When the pastor and the rest of us prayed over her something like that came right out of her head and she was free of the demon. Maybe John's got some demons in his head that are a coming out? I will keep praying for him.
Deleteyeah john could have some evil spirits in his head that need to come out...they probably came up from a five sided cavern deep down in hell...we must all pray for him...prayer definitely helps in cases like this...📿🙏
DeleteJohn Collins 12 February 2026 at 07:59
ReplyDeleteWhen the weight falls it pulls rather than pushes another weight up but only about 30 degrees, which is all it needs according to Bessler.
JC
"...which is all it needs according to Bessler." Shouldn't that more accurately read "...which is all it needs according to Collins."? Amazing how you automatically assume that all of your interpretations are 100% accurate!
DeleteThere is no doubt in my mind that Bessler meant exactly what I said.
DeleteJC
A Layman's Summary. Discussing the "Height for Width Problem" in relation to what we have seen so far. In JC's design the "falling" modified lever weight loses vertical height (loses Potential Energy). The extendable scissors direct it further to the descending side so that it has a greater torque contribution than had it fallen just vertically, or gained from a falling L shaped lever design. The proceeding mechanism has already extended towards the rim also to the right side of its 72 degree pie segment. It needs to be lifted up closer to the axle and collapse its scissor for reset. The weight on the proceeding lever must convert Kinetic Energy in to a gain in Potential Energy for that complete reset. As previously brought to our attention by various commentators gain vertically about 2 times to 3 times the vertical height lost by the "falling" weight set. If this could be mechanically arranged it would lift the proceeding modified lever weight set by over 90 degrees rotation. JC seems to suggest that 30 degrees is the secret sauce figure, which could theoretically closely match the 1/3 to 1/2 vertical lift height gain in Potential Energy achievable by the "falling" weight set Potential Energy loss sacrificed for a gain in torque. In other words the falling weight set gains width & uber-torque, which after 72 degrees cw rotation the width has become a recoverable height problem to be solved by an unidentified MA manipulation. JC suggesting that pulleys and ropes connections between fallen and risen provide this MA advantage secret sauce. JC is about to discuss and show where he believes Bessler shows this MA advantage can be identified, targeted, and tapped, to ultimately cause the continuous imbalance required for a runner.
DeleteAbove JC wrote: "There is no doubt in my mind that Bessler meant exactly what I said."
ReplyDeleteYet in the previous blog he wrote: "The ideas described are how I imagine Bessler’s thoughts proceeded."
It's often hard or actually impossible to know exactly what Bessler meant and JC has already admitted that he is just "imagining" that what Bessler meant. Well, we all hope JC's imagination is working with 100% accuracy, but in the world of Bessler interpretations that is rarely the case. He is either right in his interpretations or he is delusional. Everyone in the past who thought he was right turned out to be delusional. Is JC going to be the one exception to that rule? Not impossible, of course, yet highly improbable, imo. I suspect within the next week or so we will know for sure. The question is will JC ever know for sure? Delusions are very hard things to let go of once they entrench themselves into a person's mind. They actually rewire the brain to only be able to think along certain narrow paths. Like blinders on a horse, they prevent their victim from seeing any evidence that does not agree with his delusions even when that evidence is abundant and obvious to others.
I think I can defend your hope for restoring TRUTH.
DeleteI know that you take the "Bessler case" seriously on this blog, and no amount of "courtly scum" who keeps interrupting you will change that.
Don't regret not being able to simulate your own designs.
Every simulator requires design.
If a person designs a simulator and lacks real information they don't know about, what are they designing?
Best regards.
@anon 03:13
DeleteNice try at psychoanalyzing John, but you are wasting your time. He's had "pentagons on the brain" now for decades and your few comment sentences will not change that in the slightest. It also does not matter how many sims that new guy "TSM" churns out showing John's latest designs are useless, he'll just keep coming up with a new workaround to his last failed workaround in an effort to finally find success. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if he was still studying the Bessler drawings on his deathbed hoping to find another workaround clue that might work. He's really a hopeless case at this point. But, it's interesting to watch his antics as he tries to continually deny the harsh reality of his situation which is that like millions of others he's just not destined to solve the Bessler wheel mystery. But, of course, I could be wrong about that. Only after he finally shuffles off this mortal coil will we know for sure.
I hope his workaround works.
ReplyDeleteWORKAROUND what? Bessler wrote:
Delete“Weights were placed one on top of the other.”
“The weights exert a force perpendicular to the axis.” Any workaround can only make matters worse, therefore it can only OVERPASS.
Sigh. At least get the quote right. The workaround is a unique arrangement that beats width for height limitations.
DeleteJohann E. E. Bessler, 1717 - "Unlike all other automata, such as clocks or springs, or other hanging weights which require winding up, or whose duration depends on the chain which attaches them, these weights, on the contrary, are the essential parts, and constitute the perpetual motion itself; since from them is received the universal movement which they must exercise so long as they remain out of the centre of gravity; and when they come to be placed together, and so arranged one against another that they can never obtain equilibrium, or the punctum quietus which they unceasingly seek in their wonderfully speedy flight, one or other of them must apply its weight at right angles to the axis, which in its turn must also move." John Collins PM-AAMS ?
Bessler wrote: “Weights were placed one on top of the other.”
DeleteWhere exactly did he write that?!
These aren't John's antics, they're Bessler's. Friend, be honest, John deserves your utmost respect, so stop criticizing him without adding value.
DeleteThe things you're quoting are just Bessler's antics/metaphors, don't you understand? Bessler won't give up his SECRET without a fight, so you have to think, not criticize.
"Where exactly did he write that?!"
Ask John.
"...one or other of them must apply its weight at right angles to the axis, which in its turn must also move."
DeleteThe question in my mind is did that weight just smash down on a stop attached to the drum's 3 o'clock position or was it very gently lowered onto that stop? What you believe was the case will make a big difference in how you think B's wheels worked. I suspect it was gently lowered onto the stop because B wrote somewhere that no wheel is moved by impacts. To be gently lowered however suggests that the weight's lever was connected to levers behind it that gradually reduced its speed as it approached that 3 o'clock stop.
You're very clever with your questions; they're well-posed, but there are a few things you can't ask because you don't know them.
DeleteI'm sorry, but I have to take care of my grandson.
FOURTH ATTEMPT at simming the "Bessler workaround"
ReplyDeleteI finally finished adjusting the orientations of the five scissor mechanisms in JC's wheel and attached the cords between adjacent mechanisms. Here is the link to the gif showing the wheel's full 360 degree rotation:
https://i.postimg.cc/25v87nQ3/FULL-ROTATION-TEST.gif
As can be seen, the cog spends much more time on the wheel's ascending side than on its descending side which unfortunately indicates it's a nonrunner. This sim model is being driven at a constant speed of 1 rpm by a motor attached to its axle. The wheel will not run when the motor is deactivated. Then it just oscillates first ccw, then cw, then ccw again, then cw again and so on over and over again with lessening amplitude each time until it finally stops.
What surprised me was the big effect that the swinging in of the scissor weight near 10:30 had on the location of the cog. It actually had almost as much of an effect on the cog location as the extension / lifting action of the two scissor weights at the bottom of the wheel.
I hope that JC can use the results of this sim to come up with some modification to improve his Bessler workaround principle. Right now, however, this particular design is definitely a nonrunner.
The Sim Man
Sad..it's just another dead duck...
DeleteThank you to The Sim Man, I see a way forward, there are a couple of things to alter. I’ll check it out and let you know. Thanks again.
DeleteJC
@ TSM .. nice sim work . Thank you for your time and effort to make and test it so we can all see the predicted actions etc . It would seem that if the motor control speed ( rpm ) was increased beyond 1 rpm then the 10:30 mech would be more greatly affected by Cf's which would delay it moving inwards to full reset position thereby hindering the right-shift of the system CoG / COM which is thought to be needed to be a true self-moving wheel . That particular pulley arrangement probably is not going to aid the cause for continuous rotation , as it is . iirc JC said that one of his pulley attachment points was the red dot at the bottom of the scissor guides iinm . Below are 2 doctored photo's of his build with 2 alternative pulley arrangements that you might like to sim-explore to see what the sim will predict , if you feel inclined . The first one is just an alternative positioning 1 to 1 pull using JC's red dot position . The second is a 'block & tackle' like arrangement which alters the leverage and length of cord relationships , also using JC's red dot position . It may take a very special pulley and cord arrangement indeed to consistently right-shift the system CoG to make a true self-moving runner , if the general approach is the correct one as JC believes . -f
Deletehttps://i.postimg.cc/63NhmCyH/image1e1.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/h4s02zgx/image1e2.jpg
@anon 23;21 I don't think adding more pulleys is going to make much difference other than adding more friction to the design JC already has. Imo, he needs to concentrate on finding a way to begin the early extension of the weight arm passing the wheel's 3:00 position. That will then cause that arm's weight to begin to be extended before its scissor guide arm (which TSM made transparent in his excellently done sim) reaches the wheel's 6:00 position. Such a change, however, will require changing the lengths of the other cords between the levers and will take his design from five up to ten cords. The CoG of his weights has to spend most, preferably all, of its time on the wheel's descending side which is a goal more easily stated than obtained.
Deleteanon 00:10 .. I see your reasoning behind trying to early shift the descending mech at 3:00 o'cl etc . It would help if it could be done to overcome the current system CoG paradigm . The problem as I imagine it to be is that JC is adamant that there is just one single pulley system per mech daisy chaining to its immediate neighbour i.e. forward and backward connections ( but any number can be tried ) . This is fine when the ascending side mech is tucked in in the reset position because the rope is slacked off . But how to arrange it so that it early pulls the 3:00 o'cl mech ? Which will also try to simultaneously try to lift up the forward extended mech before 6:00 o'cl and still on the way down , with Cf's . As we know everything is " Cause & Effect " or should that be " Cause & Unintended Effect " . Anyways , imo the more neurons we have on the job the better are the chances of better outcomes for JC .. -f
DeleteAnon 00:10 said .. " Imo, he needs to concentrate on finding a way to begin the early extension of the weight arm passing the wheel's 3:00 position. "
DeleteThat early extension could perhaps be a separate prime mover mechanism providing an upthrusting force to raise it in a flash , in an arc - and then at the peak it falls down the backside of the arc ( like C & D toys ) to max torque - the mechanisms wouldn't even have to be linked by pulleys and ropes - reminiscent of MT13 and many other MT's needing the helping hand of God - now where did I put my prime mover ..
You've already realized I have some free time at this hour, right?
DeleteLesson one.
You didn't install the drive because there isn't one.
Why move it out sooner? If it's a movement along an arc, think about it.
Think it over and be sure to write back what conclusion you've drawn, regardless of ridicule or praise. Don't rush.
A true seeker of healthy criticism isn't afraid.
The ballast does not have an arc trajectory.
DeleteFriend, what do you think a pendulum is if not a ballast, does it not have an arc in its motion?
Deletethe trajectory of the ballast in the case of JC is a portion of an ellipse
DeleteI read the comments and decided to teach an important second lesson, not to you. It's rude to mock John because you yourself possess absolutely no basic knowledge and refuse to acquire it, you idiot. You have an analytical mind, but you won't use it to insult John. Lesson two is ready for publication; it's very important.
DeleteWill anyone request this knowledge?
Nobody asks for knowledge?
DeleteI checked the blog dates and comments.
Only you could have deleted them.
You had every right to do so.
Therefore, thank you for the opportunity you created.
I'm so sorry you've fallen so far.
I'm sorry I wasted your time.
Goodbye.
Have fun.
Stupid people aren't born stupid, they make themselves stupid.
Nothing was deleted, everything is O.K.
DeleteThis is my stupidity. I am so sorry, I am so ashamed.
No problem...we're all human and we all make mistakes at times...
DeleteThe ropes are a problem for holding a 30° lift; they have a period when they are relaxed and work to make Noeux that disrupt the proper functioning of the whole.
ReplyDeleteIf the idea is to shift the CoG of the five scissor weights over to the right descending side of the wheel, then here are all of the possible ways of doing it that I could come up with. Just keep in mind that there is a limit to how much weight that can be lifted by a single falling weight. You cannot exceed that limit unless you are a magician or violating the laws of mechanics. Here's my marked up photo showing what I came up with:
ReplyDeletehttps://i.postimg.cc/9Fst0z9m/b-workaround-fixes.jpg
It will require adding another five cords and pulleys to JC's basic design and also adding five "push rods". BUT, they are not solid, single piece push rods. No, they are actually telescoping push rods that only act as separators and prevent their end attachment points from getting closer than a certain distance from each other. They allow the points they connect on different lever guides to separate farther than that minimum distance from each other while still keeping the push rods in place and attached to their coupled lever guides. These push rods would be made from very light weight aluminum rods sliding in and out of light weight, thin wall aluminum tubes and, of course, would be well oiled to minimize wear.
Hope something in this can help provide that "workaround for the workaround" that JC needs now.
If Bessler used those push rods then he could not have made them out of aluminum because it was not available until the second half of the 19th century and was at that time more expensive than platinum! However, Bessler could have made them out of brass or maybe even iron. I don't think he would have made them out of wood because it is too soft for an application like that.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteThe best would be to use a toggle system, that might be where the Hammer Smith comes in!
ReplyDeleteFIFTH ATTEMPT at simming the "Bessler workaround"
ReplyDeleteSince I noticed how the inward swinging of the scissor weight at around 9:00 seemed to shift the cog of all five weights over to the right descending side of the axle of JC's wheel, I decided to see what would happen if I connected a rope (dark blue) directly from a scissor weight at around 6:00 to the weight around 9:00. And, of course, for a full rotation test, that meant adding another five ropes to JC's basic design. Here's the full wheel rotation test of that change:
https://i.postimg.cc/KcVbm9B5/6-to-9-wt-ropes-added.gif
The extra ropes helped move the cog of all five weights farther to the right of the axle, but it didn't do much to keep it there. So, again, no runner. I think I'll hold off on anymore of my own modifications until I see what suggestions JC comes up with.
The Sim Man
Another interesting sim for us to digest! However, I fear that no matter how many gimmicks are suggested by us and you sim, they are not going to keep that CoG on the descending side long enough to give John his workaround runner. Bessler, however, did find a gimmick that worked. Imo, his gimmick involved using springs and they add a whole new dimension to a design. So far, everything I'm seeing here and on other sites is simple...but maybe TOO SIMPLE!
Delete@TSM
DeleteI agree that the only way to fix this "Bessler workaround" is to concentrate on moving the descending side weights farther from the axle. Your use of the extra ropes to pull the ascending side weight toward the axle is okay and should remain. But, I like anon 07:33's suggestion of adding those push rods to the design. As the wheel turns, it must automatically shift its weights' CoG to the right side of the axle to maintain the overbalance. If that cannot be done, then it's hopeless. I'm not sure if adding springs is necessary. They can quickly over complicate things and they are already starting to get that way without them!
Based on what I've seen so far, here's my prediction for where JC's "Bessler Workaround" is headed:
Deletehttps://postimg.cc/CBxHzbzj
We humans are only supposed to have been around for a few million years, right? At least that was what we were all "taught" during our school days. Well, if that is true, then who (or what!) made this wheel that they found embedded in a coal seam that was 300 MILLION years old?!
ReplyDeletehttps://www.infinityexplorers.com/300-million-years-old-wheel-found-in-donetsk-mine/
The holy Bible tells us that the Earth is only about 6000 years old and that's good enough for me. If those photos are not hoaxed, then that wheel was put in that coal mine by Satan to deceive humans into not believing in the holy Bible. Don't let Satan control your mind with fake news like that. No one was around 300 million years ago to make wheels because creation did not exist back then.
DeleteOk here''s my explanation not using religios bs. That wheel is real. It was made by intelligent human like creatures. Not ETs because they would not be making something crude like that. It was probably made by highly evolved REPTILES that lived on the earth way back then when reptiles were all over the place. They were like at the level of our ancient Egyptions, walked upright, and had intelligence like a human. They could have looked something like this
Deletehttps://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/hostedimages/1471072018i/19997380._SY540_.jpg
What happened to them? Good question. They either were killed off by disease, a nuclear war, or they so polluted the earth that they took off for other planets so they could breath fresh air again. They got so advanced with science that they could build UFOs and use them to find a new earth to make their home and learned to take care of it. Every once in a while someone sees a landed UFO with reptile looking ETs near it. They are probably the descendnats of that past repitle race come back to check us out. We don't have to worry about them coming to take back their home world because their new world is much better.
200 years in the future a bessler wheel experimenter travels back in time to try and solve the mystery of how it worked, something goes wrong and instead of going back to 1712 he ends up 300 years million years in the past with his wheel.
DeleteThat wheel is pretty big. I'd say at least two feet in diameter. I also looks like something is attached to its hub. Maybe it was part of a wheel barrel? Maybe part of a bicycle? If so, then it was meant to be used by a bipedal creature. Anon 02:21's theory makes some sense. Also, maybe an ET crew back then crashed their UFO on Earth and after a few generations were reduced to a primitive level of existence where they had to use hand tools and do manual labor to survive.
DeleteThere's so much about our planet's early history that we still do not know and may never know. Fawk, there may have been hundreds of inventors before Bessler who discovered the secret of mechanical pm, but all of their machines were lost to history as were they. This could eventually happen to Bessler and even us if we are not very careful about how we handle any working pm wheels that one or more of us come up with.
300 million years ago was a LONG time ago. It's 150,000 times farther back in time then it is from the present to the birth of Christ only 2,000 year ago. Considering how much science and tech humans developed in the last 2,000 years, what level could be achieved by an alien race that has had 150,000 times more time to develop their science and tech? Assuming they did not destroy themselves or were destroyed, who knows what they could be capable of right now. Teleport from one galaxy to another in seconds? No problem. Transfer their conscious minds into robot bodies to achieve practical immortality? No problem. Raise the dead...even the long dead? No problem. Travel through time? Hmm...maybe. With enough science and tech almost anything becomes possible. Maybe they have special spacecraft that can fly right through the core of a star while completely protecting a crew from the heat, pressure, and radiation. Perpetual motion? No problem, but why would they bother if they can extract all of the energy of a star when they need to? If they have pm machines, they are probably kept running in museums to entertain visitors to their planets from other star systems. Whatever we've seen on Star Trek tv episode and movies is probably only a VERY primitive version of what's really going on "out there"!
DeleteIf a pm machine has to make energy out of nothing, then it is impossible no matter how advanced an ET race might be. I doubt if Bessler really had a pm machine. His wheels had some source of energy to make them run. However, they were not fakes like Wagner insisted that needed to be wound up to run like clocks. I'm not even sure if Bessler himself knew what was powering them. All he knew is that they stayed over balanced as they turned and that allowed them to put out energy. Where that energy came from he was clueless other than to say it came from the weights. Fine. But HOW did it come from the weights? Answer that question and you will probably be 90% of the way to solving the Bessler wheel mystery and understanding what his true workaround principle was.
DeleteHistorical Event I Wished Had Happened:
ReplyDeleteWagner visits Bessler for breakfast, but instead of just wolfing it down and taking off, he offers Bessler the following deal. If Bessler will show him the internal mechanism of his wheel, without any charge, and Wagner sees that it is not a spring powered, clockwork fake, Wagner would agree not to reveal the secret to anyone and, in addition, would, at his own expense and risk to his reputation, publish tracts and notices in local newspapers telling people about the deal he made with Bessler and verifying that his wheel was ABSOLUTELY GENUINE and that Wagner was COMPLETELY WRONG in denouncing them as fakes! If that could have been done, then, maybe, just maybe it would have helped Bessler finally sell his invention and, instead of endlessly debating how they might have worked online nowadays, we would all be using the electrical power from the most advanced versions of them to power human civilization!
I hope John does not immediately delete this!
ReplyDeleteSHADOW over on bwf uploaded a modern French translation of Bessler's original Apologia Poetica that was in German. I was able to translate that French version into English. Anyone who wants to read it can find its file for download here:
https://limewire.com/d/lCF5c#CCFcZUAvqM
The file uses the .odt file type and can be opened with Libre Office (you can download it for free online) or MS Office and possibly other programs. You can also convert it into a .pdf file online for free and then open and read it with Adobe Acrobat. The limewire.com site only hosts files for free for one week after which they are automatically deleted. So don't delay if you want it.
For those who already have the English version of AP provided by John, this is a good opportunity to compare the two translations. For those who do not plan to buy John version, this is an opportunity to see a free copy. However, I would recommend that the serious student of Bessler's wheels obtain both versions and compare them. Often seeing two translations of the same sentence can suddenly clarify its true original meaning.
Thanks anon 04:50. I downloaded it and so far I've had no problem reading it with microsoft word. I don't think JC has to worry about losing a lot of money with the free download because most of those downloading it probably wouldn't be buying a copy from him anyway. I happen to have one of his AP downloads and I'm going to open them up side by side in my browser and see how they compare. I'm wondering how shadow or whoever translated the original German into modern French. Maybe some friend of his or an AI translator? Anyway hope it's a quality German translation he was using.
DeleteThank you anon 04:50 for posting this translation by shadow. I will compare the two versions in my own time, but my impression is that they are both worthy of consideration and shadow’s version translates some words which clarify some of the text, where some confusion might arise.
DeleteJC
It's an excellent translation, imo. But, like JC's version it contains little of useful technical value...except for these lines which caught my eye:
Delete"It is objected that weight can only act downwards, and that therefore everything that rises must necessarily fall back down and give back what it has received.
To them I say: weight always acts, but it does not always act in the way one imagines. He who considers only a single instant of the movement is mistaken about the whole.
We must observe not an isolated point, but the ordered succession of effects. For what appears to be a loss at one moment reveals itself as a gain at another, when things are suitably arranged.
We talk a lot about balance, as if it were an insurmountable barrier. But balance is not a dead thing: it depends on the arrangement, the time, and the relationship of the parts.
Where the parts move, the balance moves with them. He who thinks he has grasped it already finds it elsewhere.
Thus, what appears balanced is often only so to the inattentive eye, and what actually acts escapes hasty judgment."
Note these lines:
"For what appears to be a loss at one moment reveals itself as a gain at another, when things are suitably arranged."
and
"Where the parts move, the balance moves with them. He who thinks he has grasped it already finds it elsewhere."
I think that the "balance" he is talking about is really the location of the center of gravity of his pm wheels' weights. I think he's saying, basically, that there are two processes going on inside of his wheels. One causes the CoG to continually drop and the other causes it to continually rise in a turning wheel. But, the one that causes it to rise is greater than the one that causes it to drop. He tells us also that the location of that "balance" or CoG is determined by the movement of the parts inside of his wheels. When they are properly arranged with respect to each other, the effect of the difference in the two processes will manifest itself and pm will be achieved.
Anons .. It reads to me like an Ai distilled general summary leaving out B's. emotional rhetoric and comments etc ( not by sentence ? - someone can confirm ) . I am reading the 3rd derivative English version of Shadow's French of Besslers German . I wonder if the an Ai summary would return the same for the Old German straight to English ?
Delete" I think he's saying, basically, that there are two processes going on inside of his wheels. One causes the CoG to continually drop and the other causes it to continually rise in a turning wheel. But, the one that causes it to rise is greater than the one that causes it to drop. " As it reads I agree with your assessment . It is getting an extra upward impetus ( a Prime Mover ?! ) - how else could MT's 44 & 48 become runners without an additional application / structure timed to give them a push ? ..
Origin of the basic text:
DeleteSUB Göttinger Digitalisierungszentrum Ein Service der SUB Göttingen
A.I translation and synthesis
The A.I gave me a mechanical approach to theoretical principles but did not provide a solution.
Shadow.
I had a tech industry friend of mine run anon 04:50's English translation of AP through IBM's "Watson" AI and ask it to explain what Bessler was talking about in those quotes noted by anon 17:21. Basically I wanted to know HOW Bessler's wheels worked. Here's a sketch I made based on the diagram Watson made for me:
Deletehttps://i.postimg.cc/3N6LcSqL/BESSLER-SECRET.jpg
Unfortunately, when I asked it to fill in the details, it said it was not yet advanced enough to do that! So we're still on our own when it comes to finding those details.
@anon 07:22 Interesting drawing you made for us.
DeleteAs the weights move from the left side's pink to orange sectors they go from swinging down and toward the right to swinging up and toward the right. They must momentarily stop as they pass the 9;00 location or the sudden change in swing direction might damage the levers. This fits in nicely with Bessler telling Wagner that in his pm wheels "the weights which hang below must rise in a flash" or something like that, but that flash rise only took place after the weights had stopped swinging relative to the drum. Those weights in the orange sector would also be rising faster than the weights in the pink sector were dropping.
On the right side of the wheel, the weights swing down as they also move toward the right as they move through the blue sector. Eventually, as the weights reach 3:00 they enter the purple sector and again stop swinging relative to the drum because they land there on a stop attached to the drum. That explains the thumping sounds heard coming from a drum's descending side.
This all tells me that Bessler's pm wheel mechanics were designed to constantly move the COG of their weights toward the right and descending side of a rotating wheel's drum. At no time could that COG be found on the drum's left ascending side. This fits in with his quote about his wheel's being full on one side and empty on the other side. That meant that the COG could only be found on one side of the wheel, the descending side, which then made it overbalanced and created torque. The COG could never be located right below the axle at the equilibrium location.
@anon10:07
DeleteSo Watson is basically saying that the mechs in Bessler's wheels kept pushing the cog of their weights toward the descending side. Since that motion was horizontal it means that no energy was needed for it. That then means all of the work produced by the torque of the constantly turning imbalanced wheel came from...???
BREAKING NEWS!
ReplyDeleteWorld's leading experts on perpetual motion machines have gathered in Geneva, Switzerland to finally solve the Bessler wheel mystery! Now, finally, we can look forward to the real solution!
https://i.postimg.cc/8Pn59WNF/pm-experts-gather.jpg
Why are you publicly expressing your disapproval in this way? Don't you know that all possible things exist? Just because a WAY hasn't been discovered in over 300 years doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Support those seeking it, because it's better than unjustified criticism.
DeleteSome people seem to enjoy mocking the subject and those that pursue it like JC in particular. However, I think they are secretly envious that we Bessler pm wheel chasers have something we believe in and are willing to invest our time and talents, not to mention $$$'s, in. Also, perhaps some of them think their mockery will spur us on even harder to get results. If so, then it's not all bad. I never let skeptics ruffle my feathers. I KNOW Bessler had something genuine and I do believe that with every passing day, we get a little closer to learning what it was.
DeleteSpeaking of "each passing day"...on 11 February 2026 at 18:40 JC wrote:
Delete"I’m going to show you where Bessler provides clues in a day or so."
That promise was made a WEEK ago! Maybe JC needs to put a new battery in his quartz clock or wristwatch? They seem to have stopped or are running way too slow!