Monday, 2 April 2018

Johann Bessler’s Wheel and the Orffyreus Code

On 6th June, 1712, in Germany, Johann Bessler (also known by his pseudonym, Orffyreus) announced that after many years of failure, he had succeeded in designing and building a perpetual motion machine.  For more than fourteen years he exhibited his machine and allowed people to thoroughly examine it.  Following advice from the famous scientist, Gottfried Leibniz, he devised a number of demonstrations and tests designed to prove the validity of his machine without giving away the secret of its design.

After more than thirty years he died in poverty.  He had asked for a huge sum of money for the secret, £20,000 which was an amount only affordable by kings and princes, and although many were interested, none were prepared to agree to the terms of the deal. Bessler required that he be given the money and the buyer take the machine without verifying that it worked.  Those who sought to purchase the wheel, for that was the form the machine took, insisted that they see the secret mechanism before they parted with the money. Bessler feared that once the design was known the buyers could simply walk away knowing how to build his machine and he would get nothing for his trouble.

This problem was anticipated by Bessler and he took extraordinary measures to ensure that his secret was safe, but he encoded all the information needed to reconstruct the machine in a small number of books that he published. It is well-known that he was prepared to die without selling the secret and that he believed that post humus acknowledgement was preferable to being robbed of his secret while he yet lived.

I became curious about the legend of Bessler’s Wheel, while still in my teens, and have spent most of my life researching the life of Johann Bessler (I’m now 73).  I obtained copies of all his books and had them translated into English and self-published them, in the hope that either myself or someone else might solve the secret and present it to the world in this time of pollution, global warming and increasingly limited energy resources.

In addition there is a wealth of letters to and from Bessler or about him which I have included in my book about the life of Johann Bessler, see below how to obtain a copy of my book.

It has recently become clear that Bessler had a huge knowledge of the history of codes and adopted several completely different ones to disguise information within his publications.  I have made considerable advances in deciphering one of his codes; the simplest one, and I am confident that I have the complete design. I hope to complete the wheel sometime during the summer and publish details of the design.

Johann Bessler published three books, and digital copies of these with English translations may be obtained from the links to the right of this blog or from this link,  www.free-energy.co.uk

In addition there is a copy of his unpublished document containing some 141 drawings, entitled Maschinen Tractate.  This document was intended to form a teaching aid to be used by Bessler in a school for apprentices which he wished to found with the money he hoped to obtain for his invention.

My own account of Bessler’s life is also available from the links.  It is called "Perpetual Motion; An Ancient Mystery Solved?"

Johann Bessler three published books are entitled; "Grundlicher Bericht", "Apologia Poetica" and "Das Triumphirende..."

I have also published Bessler's collection of 141 drawings and I have called it Maschinen Tractate, but it was originally found in the form of a number of drawings of perpetual motion designs. Many of these have handwritten notes attached and I have published the best English translation of them that I was able to get. Bessler never published these drawings but clearly intended to do so at some point.

For some ideas about Bessler’s code why not visit one of my web sites at www.theorffyreuscode.com

A separate web site deals with another piece of code found in his book Apologia Poetica, at www.orffyreus.net

One last thing.  Perpetual Motion machines have been utterly proscribed and Johann Bessler’s claims ridiculed - however, it seems that more than a handful of scientists have now come to the conclusion that it might theoretically be possible to design a mechanical system which is continuously out-of-balance and therefore will turn continuously using the repeated fall of weights for energy.  Gravity but not directly.  These open-minded people remain tight lipped for now, awaiting proof of their hypothesis.

JC

146 comments:

  1. First thing first, you should change the background John. It is too distracting. You know that, the background should always be darker then the foreground.

    ".., but he encoded all the information needed to reconstruct the machine in a small number of books that he published."

    Is it really? The encoded information is one interpretation of the events. It is not fair to suggest that this is certainly the case. There are also lots of other people (I am one of them) who think there is no encoded message in Bessler's texts.

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    1. Which background do you mean? The gears or the text?

      It is my opinion yellow, that the information is encoded in the books because I believe I’ve deciphered enough of it to build his wheel. Even if it doesn’t work I think there is enough evidence to persuade most people that the code is real. But time will tell, and I’m quite ok with the possibility that I am absolutely wrong! 😁

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    2. The gear images for the background is spot on idea for your site. But the white color is too distracting, especially on a large screen. I want to close the site as soon as I open it. A blue or brown gear themed background image would be much better.

      Your desire to persuade people about the code idea is quite understandable, since it is your brainchild. We are merely visitors here, we cannot tell you how you should present your ideas. But stating like it is a fact is not fair. As Suresh said, that may direct people to a wrong direction. Bessler obviously left clues, but a code? I am not so sure.

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    3. It may take a while to change the background colour as I’m away for two or three weeks, but I’ll try and do it on my iPad but I may have to leave it ‘til my return.

      Fair comment about my comment about the code I think I’ve found, I’ll try to make it clear it is just my opinion and speculation rather than established fact.

      JC

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  2. I think you are right...for sure success, one should follow the natural approach...thought experiment...then compare results with the clues in Bessler literature...in the poem, drawings, etc.,.. this may, we can easily know if our design concept jells with that of Bessler's...pursuing imaginary codes is for people who don't have a fundamental understanding of BW...Newton or Einstein didn't follow codes to make ground breaking discoveries, did they?...

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  3. Let me explain how Bessler did it... just my feeling... he initially understood that energy could be released by using falling weights...then it further took him a lot of time to device a way...he understood that by using specially designed levers it would be possible to create that magical movement...he attached the weights to the levers in a very innovative way...the rest is history...the weights first swing before falling... swinging gives advantage by making weights cover distance in short time on the descending side...second advantage comes from lever principle...this is further improvised with two more creative ideas for that wonderous flight of the weights...we feel that to achieve all this easily codes are required...for precision measurements...but not so...if we can just think of duplicating the Bessler's lever-weight mechanism first then rest comes easily and automatically...I can make it more simple here...but believe me it would be a give away...

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  4. May 24 to June 2nd is a line drawn in the sand for sure. We simply must have a working model by then to validate his work. I seem to get into a different mode when there are deadlines involved, so to that end I am increasing my efforts. It appears that the number of mechanisms could be 5, since it lends itself to an Out Of Balance condition quite nicely. Next, the condition of being in this Out Of Balance condition on a continuous basis was demonstrated by the early wheels that turned spontaneously. This condition requires a not so typical setup that has evaded discovery for ....... say...... about 300 years, but it is out there for us to be put into motion. Let us dedicated ourselves to this worthy cause.

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    1. It is not necessary to have five mechanism to achieve imbalance...it entirely depends on the special design of the lever-weight mechanism...this is the core point which many fail to understand...the wheel has to be completely in a state of balance when fully loaded...the lever-weight mechanisms cause the imbalance... almost everyone seem to miss this point...I am very sure that till this is gotten straight you can't expect to have a working prototype...

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  5. During wheel rotation the weights on the ascending side are closer to the wheel axis while the ones on the descending side are farther...now tell me are five mechanisms a real necessity for imbalancing the wheel?..

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    1. Clearly his one-way wheel had to be overbalanced to self start. Spectators/testers that were allowed to start and stop the wheel more than likely forced it to run very slowly and would have commented that the driving force (overbalance) appeared as pulses vs steady force. Since no mention of pulses can be found I think we have to assume the driving force was fairly steady. This then suggests the internal shifting mechanism (prime mover) does its thing regardless of wheel speed. So our task is to identify a type of weight shifting mechanism that produces a constant force regardless of how slow it itself rotates as the wheel turns.

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    2. You are absolutely right... The main task is to identify a peculiar type of weight shifting mechanism that produces a constant force itself as the wheel turns...it is also the prime mover...we can also give it an allowance of a few seconds to gather that standard speed...the lever-weight system is the mechanism that does all this...and, believe me , this is no easy job though it appears easy... the simplicity is really mindboggmind as Yellow mentioned... the idea is brilliant too...to be frank, I have already worked this out... about ten years back... Believe it or not...

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    3. We are talking about the prime mover here, and you say you already worked it out, so what's the hold up. Why do you not have a runner, or are actively building?

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  6. Bessler seems to be a highly misunderstood person...quite unlucky in death too...did he really deserve to have such an end?...are we doing any justice to him?...he wanted us to tap the gravity effect and therein benefit but finally that very force knocked him out... pathetic...and there were people mocking him while he was alive and even after his demise...and let me tell you we aren't any closer in solving the mystery...as one gets closer some dark energy enters the arena and does the deflecting act...let us form some sort of association and enter into a fool-proof pact and pool our findings...that is if we really want to vindicate JB...I guarantee everyone here that between May 24 - Jun 2 we can see the wheel in motion and not other wise...

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  7. I think Bessler himself was largely responsible for how this affair ended. No-one would have argued about his genius if he showed how the machine worked.

    Choosing a stage name?..Why? I don't know the history of stage name usage, but at any moment in time I think only Illusionists, artists and showmen used stage names.

    "Great Orffyreus! The inventor of the Perpetual Motion Machine! "

    What is this? a circus show?

    Writing cryptic books? For what reason? Was that helpful? Of course not. It made him look more suspicious.



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    1. I agree with you...those days security was a big concern and it is still is especially to this type of invention...it is possible the name was changed to avert ill-luck...free-energy phenomenon was a big thing in days of horse drawn carts era... maybe, he panicked seeing the distractors...an invention which took about 30 years to develop certainly couldn't go without rewards...as far he was concerned it was his life's biggest dream...and, it ended that way...one good thing he did was to leave some clues...

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    2. Suresh, where did you come up with 30 years number? Bessler was 32 years old when he demonstrated the first wheel.

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    3. You are right... sorry about that... for 30 years he had wandered and built several wheels but couldn't make a deal...

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  8. Karl was surprised that no one had discovered the secret before and we might as well be that no one has yet done so...we can attribute this to many causes or reasons...and even if we finally succeed will it be easy to explain the energy source?... this in itself could be another discovery if I am not wrong...

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    1. I think when he saw, Karl immediately understood how the wheel worked. The mechanism should be mindbogglingly simple. That also explains Bessler's erratic and paranoid behavior.

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  9. You are quite right again...to the point...I sometimes wonder why others on this blog aren't like you...you are able to spot an error instantly and even get it cklarified immediately...you also seem to have a good understanding about BW...If I am not being very inquisitive, can I ask you what is stopping you from going ahead with the build?...or do you feel you aren't knowing the entire design...can we collaborate on sharing basis?...where do you stay?... what is your age?...I think I have a fairly good understanding about the wheel internal structure...but facing technical difficulties...we should see the wheel in this lifetime...I don't know what happened to Mr. Andre & Trevor...they seem to have gone silent...

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  10. The main mechanism is the lever-weight combo system...and eight such systems are employed... incredibly simple...but never occurrs to anyone... I have worked this out..it took me about 20 years...or even more... maybe...this also explains the eight banging sounds...I am looking for a genuine partner as I indulge in too much procrastinating...but getting one such partner is also as difficult as the wheel mystery...JB trusted no one be in this regard except maybe Karl and that too under strict oath... knowing wheel mystery is not anybody's cup of tea...

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  11. What do you think about the wheel's energy source?...I am not too sure about it...is it GPE?...or a combination of CP,CF,Inertia, etc,.?...I understand gravity is actually not a force but a pushing pressure due to space-time curvature... this was neither understood by Newton nor JB...

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    1. I can't believe what I just read. You're not sure about the wheel's energy source (GPE, CP, CF, intertia, etc.)? Well if you don't have a clue about what drives the wheel, then you certainly don't stand a chance at finding a mechanism that exploits that source. How dare you tell us to trust you about details when you don't even know what drives the wheel, or have taken a position on one and are thoroughly building and testing.

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    2. I think none of them Suresh. MT drawings show that he was a very practical man and he preferred simple designs. It must be something easy to comprehend and build and sell. Collaboration would very good but I have an extremely busy job. But I will give it a try to build my idea soon.

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    3. Its ok...How many weights do you propose in your build?...in case you face a dead end think of my offer...after building how do we introduce it to the world?...it should not be another Bessler dilemma...how do we secure our invention?...it could leak during patenting...how do we explain the source of energy?...I am scared... the same Bessler situation could crop up...I can already smell distractors here...I try to contribute so much here but yet the question of trust arises...

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    4. No worries Suresh. Do not forget, mine is just a theory. I don't have a working wheel. May be your idea is the right one :) My idea fits the clues and Bessler's drawings nicely. It isn't very special. I think Bessler used a brilliant and simple idea.
      If it'll work I'll tell everyone.

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    5. I would like to share one thought with everyone here...pls note that once you have a theory, and as Yellow feels, it fits all bessler clues nicely, you will already get the assurance that you have hit the bullseye..even before you go for the build you will know, with a gut feeling, that it is it...it is not necessary that you have the prototype to convince yourself further... building a prototype is reqd only when there's a doubt...the design is really very simple...tha t is why Bessler feared a lot...one look is enough...to know how it works...and to duplicate by anyone...despite all this Bessler has given us abundant clues...he took a big risk on this...

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    6. Yellow...why do you say "if it'll work I'll tell everyone"...Why this if crops up...pls read my above comment...prototype is not essential when you are sure about clues matching the idea...when an if appears it only tells us that we have not figured out that magical movement actually...confidence will be high the moment we realize that movement...I hope you are able to follow what I am trying to make clear...I learnt all this the hard way...anyway, you are quite interesting...your conviction is great, unlike anyone here...it is nice to converse with you...our moral gets boosted...hope you won't keep us in suspense very long...

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    7. We are talking about a machine which is accepted as impossible. For thousands of years, thousands of people have thought they've found the solution, but they failed miserably. They've been mocked and told how fool they are. The price of failure is high. There must always be doubt. However it looks promising, a working model is the only way to be sure.

      I may sound convincing because I am a professional engineer working on professional projects. I use science, simulators etc. all day long.

      I read every possible text about the wheel. The evidence for wheel's genuineness is undeniable. Who says otherwise should check the evidence.

      OK. Let's stop talking about me here on John's page. Let me give some time for testing. I promise I will let you know.



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    8. "We are talking about a machine which is..."


      All this is because it is really impossible to achieve...and, this is because there is only one configuration...and this never occurrs to everyone that attempts...many here don't try to grasp what I am trying to say...it is an unique design though ridiculously simple...and, everyone'll act how Karl reacted...Here, I differ with you...this is the only point where you also don't seem to understand what I mean...a working model isn't the only way to be sure... this is reqd to convince the world not self...it is possible that the design you are on isn't the actual one and that is why you aren't getting ecstasy...THE BOW TWANGS...if you can rightly understand this then you will realize what I mean... otherwise, we are in for another failure...you won't accomplish this through simulation knowledge nor engineering, for that matter...out of the box approach....

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  12. Newton didn't know how gravity worked but he discovered it...

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  13. A while back I worked on a piece of material in the shape or an arrowhead. One side was vertical and the other was a taper. As it fell at the top it pushed the wheel forward, at the bottom it it pulled the arrowhead down, it was really a cool idea, but I just could never get it to work the way I thought it should, but then I was using the arrowhead to push the weight out to the perimeter as it fell and the let it return to the center with a spring.

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    1. But it won't help us in any way... Arrowhead design makes no sense to me... Bessler's lever-weight system is unique and this can also be called the prime mover...as Yellow has stated the design is very simple and can be spotted in the drawings...

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  14. Sorry for my lack of comments guys, currently on holiday in Spain and the Internet where we are staying is weak and subject to random stoppages. Will respond when and if possible. Back in a couple of weeks.

    JC

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  15. Yellow, Are you an ME? How fast would a weight be going after it fell one foot? Could you give me a formula, in English units, (please no metrics).
    Sam

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    1. (1/2)(m)(v^2) = (m)(g)(h)

      Therefore

      (1/2)(v^2) = (g)(h)

      Since h = 1,

      (1/2)(v^2) = g
      (v^2) = 2g
      v = (2g)^1/2 (remember g = 32 ft/s^2)

      So

      v = (64)^1/2 = 8ft/s

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    2. m = mass
      v = velocity
      g = gravity constant
      h = drop height

      Potential Energy (mgh) is converted to Kinetic Energy (1/2mv^2).

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  16. You lost me, what does the upside down v mean? forget it.
    I don't see how it could be 8? 2 or 4 but not 8---------------
    Sam

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  17. Anonymous, I think the correct answer must be 2, 2 feet per. sec.
    Or v=2d. Or 2 x 1 = 2, "d" being the distance it falls up to 16 feet. (d=1/2 a x t Sq.)
    But don't know if I'm right, Sam

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  18. Is it safe to assume that you guys don't know either? Now I don't feel so bad, Sam

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  19. Follow up; think I've figured it out! The velocity of a falling weight will always be twice the distance it falls. However I doubt if anyone is interested, Sam Peppiatt

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  20. Anonymous, You were right, it is 8 ft. per. sec. It's the square root of 2gd.
    What can I say, I'm a big dummy, Sam

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    1. Sorry been away. I am the original formula poster. Glad you figured it out Sam. ^ proceeds the exponent. For example 5 squared is written 5^2 which is 25. 5 cubed is 5^3. Now square roots are written with an exponent of 1/2, so the square root of 16 is written 16^1/2. I probably made things worse, but when you have to use ^ it kind of mucks things up. Feel free to ask any formula questions. I shall do my best to answer. I believe you can model a wheel using mathematics. If you feel that you accounted for every force, and the net force is positive, then you could have a runner. Then it's time to build.

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    2. Thanks for enlightening me! My level of understanding is pretty low.
      How do you make it, the little upside down V ? Sam

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    3. On my US keyboard, it is the character above the 6 key (so shift-6).

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    4. When I say shift-6, I mean shift and 6.

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    5. Anonymous, Not only am I a big dummy, I must also be blind as a bat!

      Sam

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    6. You don't need to use the ^ (which is shifted-6 key) to write exponents. If you want to square a number, you can just write: 5² for example or 5³ for cubed. There is also a square-root symbol: √16 would be square-root of 16. You could also write it: 16^½ I guess.

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    7. Nice Quazgaa, what keystrokes produce 5^2 the way you show it?

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    8. Well, according to MS Windows' "Character Map", the keystrokes for producing the squared symbol is Alt+0178. And you accomplish that by holding down ALT key while sequentially pressing those 4 numeric keys, but on the number keypad (which is kindof a pain on these new laptops many people have, because they don't have separate numeric keypad like they used to on desktop keyboards — on my laptop, it requires using a special 'Fn' (short for Function) key). The keystrokes for the cubed symbol is Alt+0179. But its a lot easier to just swipe those characters with you cursor, hit Ctrl-C to copy, and then put cursor where you want to add them and press Ctrl-V to paste. The square-root symbol, which is listed as U+221A, doesn't even seem to have any way to be produced just using keystrokes.

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    9. Yea right-------------forget it,Sam

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    10. Thanks Quazgaa.

      I put 8^2 in a Word document and pasted below as a test.

      82

      Well that didn't work as you can see.

      I tried the Alt 0178 using the numeric keys and that worked.



      It would not work using the numbers on top of the regular keys.

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  21. How does this relate to the drawing that John submitted with the 5 mechanisms with the 5 circles that are only the travel paths of something......

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    1. Gravittea, I don't know how his 5 mechanisms work, so really can't answer that, maybe nothing. Have I drifted off topic? If so I apologize, Sam

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  22. The images at the top of this blog are there to pique the curiosity of any visitor not so familiar with the legend of Bessler’s wheel. I shall change them from time to time.

    JC

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  23. an arrow head is shown at top of the scissors jack on the toys page, and they would not work with a 'solid' arrow end like that ?
    Jon

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  24. The arrow shape could easily be a catch that would slide into a V and be released

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  25. ¡Buenos dias, Juan de las Colinas!

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  26. Does anyone know of previously discussed mechanisms for Bessler's Wheel that fall faster than free fall?
    I'm designing a lever that uses two weights to raise its own C.O.M. while it's falling. I want to build a test model soon but thought I'd open up to comments or questions until then.
    -Tim

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    1. When you say fall faster than free fall, are you referring to accelerating downward greater than the acceleration of gravity(9.8m/s^2)?

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    2. Yes. I've been studying the "falling ladder" or "yard stick and pennies" experiment where the tip of a lever accelerates faster than 9.8m/s^2 especially when its COM is close to the fulcrum. Description of modified lever: Two weights on a (horizontal) lever connected by a rope and pulley, the pulley located on the lever close to the fulcrum. The heavier weight hangs from the pulley and the lighter weight slides out from midway to the end of the lever.
      The way it should work:
      1. The tip of the lever is released to be pulled downward by gravity and it begins to rotate around its fulcrum and the small weight begins to slide out toward the tip of the lever. (increasing the lever's moment of inertia)
      2. The centrifugal force from the sliding weight pulls upward on the hanging weight, lifting it via the rope and pulley thereby ADDING apparent gravity to the lever and sustaining its tangental acceleration.
      3. This positive feedback increases the Kinetic Mass of the sliding weight until it lifts the heavy weight all the way up to the pulley. The Center of Mass rises.
      4. The lever is stopped and its momentum conserved by a spring.

      So the million dollar question is: Will the total potential energy of the lever's mass height and spring be more at the end of the fall than the beginning?
      Note: In a wheel configuration the lever's fulcrum could be on the descending rim when the lever is released pushing down more rather than less. In other words, the apparent weight of the falling lever would increase rather than decrease.

      -Tim

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  27. Here are 2 adverse effects to consider about weights free falling within the wheel.
    1) The center of mass is lowered, which means more weight/force has to be added to the opposite side of the wheel to balance.
    2) The falling weight weighs less, so if the weight is on the descending side of the wheel, the ascending side is momentarily heavier, and thus the wheel will slow.

    Something to consider if you plan on using free falling weights.

    On a positive note, if the weights fall at the 12 or 6 o'clock position, there is at least no weight shift to the left or right of the wheel so these seem to be the better positions to make a drop if one is needed.

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  28. How many of you have actually purchased John's translation of AP? If you read the document, and write down the clues about the weights, you have to take the context into consideration. Is he generally speaking about overbalance/preponderance, or is he speaking about his secret principle. This may help you understand the workings of the weights in each of those two contexts.

    Without knowing the context, what weights would you say apply to his clue "One weight moves inward as another moves outward"? Well this is an easy one, and just on the reading alone, you could probably assume he was referring to the weights at the ends of the crossbar that produce overbalance (MT15). Reading the clues and not knowing the context in which they were made can lead you to the wrong conclusion. Buy the book.

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    1. If the cross bar, or slider, is reset at the horizontal position every one half revolution the wheel will turn. But how to do it? I think a free falling weight might work. A 1/2 lb. weight falling 12 inches, will knock a two lb. slider over at least 3 inches instantaneously. And because of it's light weight it's fairly easy to lift back up.

      Anyway want to try and see if it will work, Sam

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  29. There has to be the swinging before falling...and each lever should have a single weight...the main thing is that once you have the concept you'll be so sure that it'll work even before you go for the build or test...it is like all the pieces suddenly clicking into place in a jigsaw...

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    1. Oh I'm pretty sure I have the concept, but it took years of research. I'm just leaving breadcrumbs for now to see who follows. No one wants to give any insight as to what they think is the force that produces overunity (what I like to think of as the prime mover force). The overall prime mover mechanism may produce a linear force, but the force within the prime mover that is unbalanced is what people should be able to share, after all, it is the unique arrangement and movement that is the real secret, not inertia, CF, CP, etc.

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    2. Anonymous, Maybe you could calculate some thing for me: I'm finding out that to shift a slider, the small falling weight has to hit at the same time, the slider reaches it's horizontal position, as the wheel is turning. If it doesn't fall far enough it hits the slider to soon, before horizontal, if it falls too far it will hit after, after it's horizontal. Whats the right height, assuming the wheel is turning at more or less equal to the acceleration due to gravity? Can you help? Sam Sam

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    3. That's a bit complex sounding, especially not having a clear picture/schematic of what is happening. I'm not sure I could even make an educated guess. Here are a few things that will affect the falling weight.
      1) Does the weight drop vertically along a cross bar (say from the rim to the axle) or is the path of the falling weight further out near the rim?
      2) CF from the wheel rotation will affect the falling weight, and the affect of CF on the weight will be based on the position/path the weight takes. CF changes as you get closer or farther away from the axle.
      3) The faster the wheel turns, the greater the CF, and the greater the affect on the falling weight.
      Lots of variables here.

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    4. Something else to consider. Weight does not fast relative to a quickly spinning wheel, and it certainly won't fall straight down, because as the wheel turns, the once vertical path will now be on an angle. So the weight will actually fall along a curved path, and the affect of gravity on the weight will also change, and affect the speed of the weight.

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    5. Sorry ... weights do not drop fast relative to a quickly spinning wheel ...

      Think about Bessler's wheel spinning at 60rpm. There is but a fraction of a second to complete the movement. Now if CF aided in the movement, then as the wheel moved faster, the weights would also move faster.

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    6. I hope that the "prime mover" can be proven on a stationary axle and then several of them can be installed in a wheel for continual reciprocation. I've learned that the RPM of a mass does not affect it's acceleration due to gravity (apparent weight) at the 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock positions. So I imagine the lever would swing very quickly around the 3 o'clock position assuming the wheel runs clockwise.

      The "falling weight" would actually rise once the lever began to rotate. The sliding weight could move up or down with the lever depending on which way the lever moved when released. There could be countless embodiments of the concept.
      Either way the desired result of the lever is to increase its total apparent weight to its fulcrum during its movement (and hopefully raise its C.O.M. )using a positive feedback between gravity, centrifugal force(of the lever, not the wheel), and the inertial resistance of the load (which is analogous to the ground).

      I can only assume that Bessler's wheel required a rapid motion within the wheel in order to "gain" energy, so in his case there would be a RPM window between 0 and (60) RPM where the lever actually had enough time to swing between desirable orientations on the rim.
      -Tim
      P.S. I'm new to post anything online but would be happy to draw a picture if anyone would give advice on posting it.

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  30. Suresh, You could be right, however with MT-15 he uses the word superior. I take this to mean a slider or cross bar is the best or superior way to over balance a wheel. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but he seams to infer that every thing is shown on MT-15 except the so called prime mover. The prime mover being a way to reset / shift the sliders. Perhaps a small falling weight will work, just have to try it and see. I afraid you are wrong about one thing; only the experiment is meaningful. Sam Peppiatt

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    1. 'Superior' can also mean 'higher' and to a lesser degree 'more'. Either of these definitions apply to MT15. Another thing to remember is we are reading an English translation of old German. The translation may not be 100% accurate. Don't put too much emphasis on the meaning of 'superior'.

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    2. When I said higher I meant further out from the axle. In MT15 the weights definitely stick out further. The number of weights (more) are due to the inner weights being there. Could this be another reference to an inner wheel like in MT11. Who knows.

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    3. Anonymous-1, You are right, I could be all wrong. However I do know that the cross bars / sliders will work if they are reset every 180 degrees of rotation. And it, the reset, HAS to be done when they are horizontal. For this reason it , has to be done instantaneously, in order to drive the wheel. That's why I think it must have been a falling weight; only a falling weight would be fast enough to knock the sliders over, which would OOB the wheel and cause it to turn.

      I'm assuming that it was this so called prime mover that did the resetting. For a falling weight I'm using a long thin rod that goes from rim to rim, but again I don't if it will work. One last thing, observers did say, when they turned the wheel they could here a weight fall, then the wheel would start to rotate, if that means anything. Sam

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    4. I might add, with a falling weight it can be quite small, which means it's easier to lift back up. It has to reset every one half revolution also, Sam Peppiatt

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    5. Sam - keep in mind that a falling weight only has a specific amount of energy (W x H), where W is the weight and H is the vertical height the weight moves downward (regardless of any sideways movement). The energy lost can be used to raise another weight. Unless there is an unaccounted force in the weight that drops, and it can be applied to the weight to be raised, you are looking at a break-even scenario.

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  31. Sam...we could go on experimenting without an end... do you not realize 300 years have gone this way?...what I am trying to say is that thought experiment should go on till every piece fall into place...then the prototype is reqd for experiment...this can save us a lot...I carried out thought experiment for about 25 years or so...I think Bessler also did the same thing...mt15 is one such thing... personally, I don't find any worthwhile clue in mt15...if we are dreaming of rebuilding BW in our lifetime some different approach is reqd... again, I would like to remind you about the 300 years... not only in this blog, no one listens to anyone...tal talk sense to someone just seems to make no sense...the weights are themselves the prime movers...they go on seeking the punctum quietus...

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    1. Suresh, Thanks for your response. What do I know; you are right, experimenting has taken me forever, maybe you can get it to work,
      so far I haven't, Sam

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    2. IMO, there are two types of weights in Bessler's wheel:

      1) The first set of weights make up the typical overbalanced wheel like in MT9. There are all sorts of OB wheel designs you can come up with. Pretty much the weights are grouped in pairs (at opposite ends of a crossbar). When one weight moves inward, the opposite weight moves outward. The overbalance created is what causes the wheel to start (when stopped) and it is what keeps the wheel turning.

      2) The second set of weights make up the prime mover(s). They move in such a manner as to produce a net positive force (overunity) and that force is what lifts the OB weights (the weights in the first set) to the overbalanced position. I also believe that the prime mover has to be rotated so the weights in the prime mover are reset.

      We have a symbiotic relationship between the OB weights and prime mover weights. The prime mover weights lift the OB weights to the OB position which causes the wheel to rotate, and the rotation resets the weights in the prime mover so they are ready to repeat their movement which generates the overunity force.

      I hope this makes sense.

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    3. Anonymous, I think it makes sense.

      I also think it's safe to assume we are all after the same thing.
      Let's all keep working together toward proving the motion of the prime movers. Let's play to our strengths and share the benefits of a working wheel. Who knows what could happen after that!

      Building takes time and effort but not nearly as much as unlearning false doctrines while developing strong physics aptitude.
      So, if you like to build, then build quality models and share results. If you like to brainstorm, then really work hard to systematically solidify your reasoning, physics, logic, creativity, etc. Then share your results. If you are good at both then do both and share your results.

      If we rely on and support each other, we will succeed!
      -Tim

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    4. Anonymous, Yes, I think you are right. Two weights, on a slider, OOB the wheel, which causes it to rotate. This slider has to be reset every one half revolution, of the wheel. The resetting is done, some how, by a second free falling weight or prime mover, when the slider is horizontal. And, as you said, it also has to reset every one half turn of the wheel. Sam

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  32. Tim...then what about the credit?...who is going to get it?...one cannot just give away everything...even Bessler didn't do it...he has only given some valuable clues...

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    1. Suresh,
      That is an important question with an even more important answer. It may be hard to hear at first so just prepare your heart to hear the truth no matter how much it may hurt at first: “Greed is an evil root.”
      Someone besides Bessler may get credits but the very concern for credit will hinder our ability to figure this thing out.

      The real question is,”Who will get the knowledge?” Once rediscovered, the wheel will be advanced by much more capable men than I. Yet, it may be made obsolete in a matter of years by much better ideas and end up as nothing more than a desktop novelty.

      Personally, the credit won’t help me. I know that anything of true value is given to me from the PERPETUAL richness of The Lord Jesus Christ. Because he has given me so much already, I’m keen to recognize the false value of seeking credentials from men.

      Out of respect for John Collins I want to keep my conversation on his blog focused on speculating and solving the wheel. But if you ever want to know what the Lord has done for me and how he has given me the desire to give to others rather than seek for myself, I’d consider it a privilege to tell you or anyone else via email or telephone. Just ask.
      -Tim
      timothyleecochran@gmail.com

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    2. Thanks Tim,
      One of these days I'll be getting in touch with you....but, in the meanwhile, in keeping others in the loop, tell me why there is patenting system in place?...also, don't you think if it gets into the wrong hands what could result?...Tell me also Why JC sir hasn't revealed entirely what he has found?...There are people here who always do mockery at everything...why so?...God helps those who help themselves... isn't it?...a fool and his wealth are soon parted... correct?...you may not believe but I have already figured it out... therefore, the question of hindrance doesn't arise... you may not realize but your idea speculating and solving may take eons...just think of the past 300 years...why no one has yet figured it out?...if you ask me, there are many different reasons for hindrance other than what you have stated... The need of the hour is to first form a proper alliance with foolproof security pact to actually bring the benefits of the wheel to the masses...if you believe me, and are genuinely interested in promoting by accepting my offer to partner with you please let me know...remember there is no sense in reinventing the wheel...I have the requisite knowledge for it...and seriously, I am not kidding...

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    3. Hi Suresh,
      It sounds like we both have something to share. You have knowledge of the wheel with no security and I have security without knowledge of the wheel.
      I've often thought of what known and unknown resistances may be lurking to hide or destroy the distribution of a wheel (regardless of who gets credit or intellectual rights). For all we know many forms of perpetual power sources have already been created and suppressed.

      Once I went to a patent attorney in Plano, Texas (who was also an Electrical engineer) with an over unity electrical generator design. I asked him if he could tell me why it wouldn't work and he could not, but still insisted it was impossible. He said that if I brought him a working prototype, still, he "could not ethically patent it because it violated the laws of physics." WOW!!! My eyes were opened a little more that day. At first I couldn't believe what I was hearing.
      His pride and fear of discrediting his career compelled him to put up resistance.
      There are also political, military, and corporate groups who I believe would actively seek to destroy this kind of development, though I don't have first hand experience with them.

      If you are after money as well as putting the wheel to good use, maybe a single wealthy customer is the safest way to go.
      My employer literally spends BILLIONS of dollars every year on fuel for transportation. If you developed a wheel to meet those kind of mobile energy needs then I'm sure they wouldn't mind giving you a corner office somewhere with a large budget.
      If you just want to get the information out to the world without it being buried then I think it would require much more effort but you would not retain the intellectual property for long.
      I have much to say on the whole topic but really just want to gain knowledge of how the wheel works so I can build one for myself and those around me. If you showed me a working wheel under the condition of secrecy, I could keep it a secret but I think that would make life harder and more stressful. It's better to give with no expectation of reward.
      -Tim
      P.S. If someone besides yourself figures out the wheel and just wants to give it away to the world for free, would you try to stop them from doing that?

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    4. Tim...a single wealthy customer...this sounds great... Bessler couldn't succeed in finding one...probably I won't either...if someone succeeds in building BW and wants to give it away for free let alone myself nobody else can stop it... anyway, thanks for enlightening me...

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  33. I don't think there are two types of weights...all weights are similar...the same weight plays a different role on the ascending side...every thing is automatic...even the resetting is so...there is no different prime mover...the same weight also acts like a prime mover...Sam...no slider is involved...

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    1. Suresh, You may be right, my theory could be wrong. I do agree with you on one thing, I don't think MT-9 would work either.
      Good luck with your idea, Sam

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    2. When the original Anon said there were two different types of weights, he did not mean the weights were somehow different, he meant there were used for two different purposes. He went on to say the first set did this, and the second set did that ...

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    3. Sam, if you are a believer in the wheel consisting of two parts, OB wheel and prime mover, then any OB wheel design will potentially work. You just have to find a way to connect the prime mover to the levers of the OB wheel, whether it be MT9 or MT15. Don't waste too much time on the OB part, the prime mover is where the secret is.

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    4. Hi Anonymous! I don't think so. I think it has to be MT-15 for it all to work. If a way could be found to shift or reset the sliders of MT-15 the wheel will run. Yes, I agree the prime mover is the secret to the whole thing! I'm fairly certain that it must be a falling weight about 1/4th the weight of a slider, and it has to fall at least a foot. You might ask, why a falling weight? The best time to shift the slider is when it is at or near it's horizontal position. There for it has to shift very fast if it is to turn the wheel. The falling weight hits a bell crank and knocks the slider over instantaneously. Like hitting it with a hammer. Sense it is relativity small, it's fairly easy to lift back up. The falling weight is a long 1/4 inch diameter rod that reaches from rim to rim. Let me say it this way, the falling weight or prime move falls down knocks the slider over and the wheel turns, it's as simple as that. But it hasn't been tried yet, so can't be sure if I'm right--------------------Sam

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    5. Unlike Suresh, I'm guessing at everything, it's a bitch! Sam

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  34. Believe it or not...the ascending weights help themselves in their ascending...such is the Bessler mechanism...

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  35. I think it makes only half sense... for eg..MT 9 is nowhere near the truth...No clue there...MT 9 is one failure attempt of Bessler...it won't help us in any manner...I am afraid we are still not on the right track...we are getting somehow misguided...we ain't getting nowhere...one thing is correct...weights are in pairs...one on the ascending side and one on the descending side...no cross bars involved...you may find all this unbelievable, but believe it...

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    1. 0ynstein said something like "any OB wheel will work". The prime mover is what does the lifting. I believe this is the case, and really has to be proven not to be the case before we go around saying wheels like MT9 will not work.

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  36. Weights in pairs that are of the same weight can only move is one weight is closer to the fulcrum. If the moment arm of the same weight is the same then it will only be a balanced system. One weight can lift more that itself given the correct moment arm. When the weight is at the 12 o'clock position and the 6 o'clock position neither has any effect on the balance or lack thereof. However, to move the weight in those positions required a tremendous amount of work. To move the same weights at the 3 o'clock and the 9 o'clock positions require much less energy. The force generated by a weight is a constant, the force generated by a falling weight is not a constant. Now in general, the gravity wheel must address these well know facts...... and so we proceed

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    1. Gravittea...I totally agree with you except on one count...at 12 & 6 O'clock positions it actually doesn't require much effort...infact, it is too easy... this tells you aren't anywhere near the BW mystery...you aren't considering the swing...every thing is automatic in BW...the swing happens automatically at 12 position...and the lifting at 6 position is much more amazing... you'll not believe your eyes when you actually see the secret...also, pls note that in BW the force generated by a weight is relative to it's position in the wheel...when it is farthest from the axle it exerts maximum force...I agree with you here...but, I am afraid it could take eons in your attempt...our lifespan is too short...

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  37. Suresh, you sound more than extremely confident in your ideas of how a Bessler PM wheel must work. Have you actually built a physical working wheel to back up your hyper-confidence? Do you have a kinematic simulation of it in action? What can you share of your journey from paper to reality that would help us understand your confidence so we could really get behind you?

    Kit

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  38. Following the idea that the wheel was so easy to understand anyone could copy it at a glance makes me think that perhaps the prime mover resembled in appearance a common object at the time; something where the mechanics understood. The more I draw variations of my "swinging faster than free fall lever" the more it resembles a trebuchet in appearance and in function. Trebuchets were common knowledge in the 1700's.

    Let's suppose, I was there back in the day, and Bessler showed me a running wheel which just had 5 or 6 little trebuchets inside the rim that each fired while crossing the 3 o'clock position. Even without any knowledge of all the little ratio details like weight, speed, and lever length, I think I would assume I could build another working wheel. Even if I'd never built a trebuchet or really knew the physics of it, I would be able to get the information to replicate it.
    My "trebuchet lever" (that's what I'm calling now) is just a slightly modified trebuchet so that it's center of mass rises during it's swing. (that is yet to be proven). But my point is the same: even if it wasn't exactly a common mechanism, it likely resembled one and would have almost discredited Bessler as the inventor. People might have said, "Oh, big deal. He just put some kids toys inside a wheel and wants to get paid a fortune. No way."

    By the way, can anyone tell me how a trebuchet's weight changes during its launch period? We know for a fact it is lighter after it launches the projectile and stops moving, but what about while the arm is swinging with the projectile in it?
    -Tim

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    1. Tim...it is difficult to answer your question... Trebuchet idea was first raised by JC sir...if I rightly remember but later got lost in the din...I personally feel Bessler designed an unique lever-weight system that isn't anything like a Trebuchet...you are probably thinking of Trebuchet because it enormously amplifies the force.. Trebuchet doesn't depend on gravity but BW does...so BW operates entirely in a different way...BW uses the advantage of the swing, the levers, gravity, and something else...without gravity or a constant pull from below BW can't perform...

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  39. Hi Kit...it appears you haven't been following my posts from the beginning...otherwise, you wouldn't be asking all these questions... anyway, I don't mind giving you a brief...I am also glad you have expressed a curiosity genuinely... The internal mechanism of BW comprises two main divisions... that work in tandem... both depend on each other...the first one is the lever-weight system and the other is the structure it operates on...you can also compare it with the chassis of a car on which the main working parts are placed... about eight weights work this way...the concept is absolutely simple but found nowhere else... exclusive, you can say... when this idea comes to mind it is like striking gold...you will be totally confident that you got it...and, believe me, building a model isn't necessary to convince yourself...the mechanism is so simple and straight forward and agrees with Bessler's clues that you will just jump with joy...if it is described more there is a immediate chance of losing the secret...I am unable to build due to lack of resources...but will be happy to answer more questions...to satisfy you...as long as the secrecy is not lost...Pls read my posts since the year 2010 on this blog...you will be more than convinced... there is something surrounding this story that makes people go skeptical...bess Bessler was genuine but victimized...once again I am happy that you dared to enquire...thanks dear...

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  40. I'm sorry Suresh. I have been an infrequent member of Besslerwheel.com since before 2010 and very occasionally visit here to see John Collins personal progress. In all that time there has always seemed to be one person or another who says it is so simple they don't need to build it. I was hoping you might be able to tell us why the laws of physics are wrong so that your idea can work. Your explanation might give me a better feel for you.

    Kit

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  41. The laws of physics are not wrong...this wheel does not also clash with the law...all this is due to some fundamental misunderstanding/misinterpretation... just some weights and levers working in unison...it was originally configured by Bessler...this wheel is like a vertical axis windmill...with a special mechanisation called distance manipulators (levers). The weights on one side excert more pressure while they are farthest from the center...this makes the wheel turn...it is as simple as that... the problem is if I go on explaining like this I may spill the hard earned beans... hope you will understand it...you just need to follow my previous be posts if you are genuinely interested...this is JC sir's blog...I don't like to be rebuked...I have been a sincere contrubutor since 8 years here...if I was not a genuine person I would have been hounded out you know long back...ask only such questions which are safe for all keeping my excusive rights in mind... like Bessler I have sincerely worked hard to unravel this secret and it is no more a mystery to me...why others have not been successful in this pursiut is because there is only one configuration and this doesn't occur to everyone...so please remember to ask reasonable questions so I don't stand to lose much...

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    1. Suresh, I'v been studying your posts very carefully. The weights swing in and out, right? Sounds like pendulums, and you manipulate them some way, so that they swing out on the down side and in on the up side, automatically, right?
      Which could be done with a weighted bell crank----------------------
      How am I doing so far? Sam

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  42. Don't waste your time "Anon of 16 April 2018 at 7:08". Suresh says he doesn't want to give away the secret so he says look at my posts since 2010. Does that make sense? If he won't give away any clues now, he certainly would not have back then, and if he did give clues back then, why say he can't now. Simple logic. All you are seeing is someone making a claim and unwilling to back it up with facts or a build. No facts and no clues = no believe.

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  43. I believe that there is a reference to Bessler and his many talents as having been called in to help "tune" a trebuchet. That mechanism has always intrigued me.....

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  44. Thanks Gravittea,
    That's encouraging to hear.
    I'll have to model it on WM2D and share the results. My goal is to get a modified trebuchet to swing faster than normal by pulling the swing arm and the counter weight together as the swing arm is swinging. Wish me luck.
    -Tim

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  45. I’ll be back tomorrow from Spain, and hope to post new blog in a day or so. Thanks for your patience guys.

    JC

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  46. I have purchased some materials this weekend. I'll start to build a very small wheel based on my idea. This will be my first try :)

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  47. Yellow, Good luck with your wheel, and thanks for your help, Sam

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  48. Sam...you are right...pendulums...BW's main internal parts are pendulums...and swinging makes things easy inside...you are on the right track...one fine day, who knows, at this rate you may crack the case...I am not sure about the bell-crank you mentioned...Sam, you know?...as far as I'm concerned BW mystery is solved...but are there any takers here?...no idea...it used to be a big mystery to me...not any more... almost all the clues found in the literature are very true...you know Sam...I have been on this blog for eight years...I enjoyed every moment...I never misguided anyone...never even appeared as an anonymous... always straight-forward...God helps honest people... personally, I am too happy and satisfied that I fully understand the internal mechanism...Karl is quite right...simplicity is the key...it is only a matter of time...for a practical model...BW is such that when you get the actual picture of the secret design in your mind you will automatically be convinced that it is the one... some people may think I have gone crazy...but I know I haven't...if you read all my posts you will know it...it saddens me when I realize I have failed to convince many here... people will usually ask have you built a model?...then they will ask for a glance inside...there is no end to all this...this story is fraught with lots of fraud in the history...so we can't blame anyone now...but take it granted from me certainly that it remains solved...once and for all...others should realize the futility of re-invention...best of luck...in your endeavor...

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    1. You make claims without proof. It is no wonder no one believes you. This is to be expected. You should use terms like 'in my opinion (IMO)' versus 'believe me' or 'I know'. Until you build a working wheel you don't know no matter what you say. History if full of believe me guys. You are no different. You say you have known the secret for many years, well by now you should have something to show for it.

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    2. Bessler built several models but still almost no one believed..even Karl insisted on looking inside...there has to be a way out...I would also rather accept some posthumpos acknowledgement than leaking it out now...my descriptions of Wheel will stand...

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  49. Suresh, Rats! Here I thought I had it all figured out---------anyway,I really think you have to get it built some way. What do you mean when you say, you don't have any resources? Do you mean money or skills?
    Where are you at? Are you any where near California? McMaster-Carr has every kind of hardware you could need. You should at least try, Sam

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  50. I live in India, Sam...I am trying...it may take some time...resources means both... more importantly skills...parts are not readily available...each component has to be manufactured...all this is not easy... unless you are a Craftsman... hardware dealer won't help...measurement is an important criteria In BW making...

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  51. Yellow...a word of advice before you lose both time and effort...unless you are cocksure never resort to building a wheel...I hope you have the core idea before hand...see my guidelines...if you don't follow I am afraid success will be a farfetched matter...it is all about thought experiment...it is all possible in the mind...I am sure you will remember me at the end of it all...it is not necessary we build a prototype to gain experience...it is all possible through mental efforts... anyway, good luck...

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    1. I disagree. What I know today about the prime mover I learned by building. Only by having hands on experience, feeling the weight and resistance did I get insight that would later prove correct. There is no substitute for building. Now I do agree that building an 8-foot wheel with 16 weights and lots of levers would be a bit much unless you were doing it to learn something, but building a wheel just to see if it works would not make sense.

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    2. I learnt about the prime mover without going through the building process...the weights in conjunction with levers are the prime movers themselves...they are too active...they provide the locomotive force ... this is a concept that is originally thought out through instincts...for that matter, all original and natural and fundamental discoveries mostly a result of thought experiment...BW invention is one such too...

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    3. Core principle?...core idea?... or what shall we call it...the basic concept?...or the central design?...like a Piston and cylinder are the most fundamental working parts in an internal combustion engine, what is it in the BW?... can anyone guess it before I roll out the answer?... Pls note this is the most intriguing part never ever described here so far by anyone...

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    4. Thank you Suresh. Of course, I am not suggesting blindly building wheels. Think first, then try it. We know Bessler found his wheel in a similar manner, by trial and error. At least, we are sure that it worked once.

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    5. Suresh - I am surprised very few if any that claim to know the solution actually state the motive force. IMO the motive force is CF/CP from a swinging weight, and it is the lever mechanism (the real secret) that utilizes the CF/CP to lift the weights in the OB wheel part. That is the secret.

      Since you have not yet said what the core principle is yet (I am assuming you are referring to the motive force of the prime mover), please state it.

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    6. Seeing the scant response it appears the time is not right yet...so let's put this on hold for sometime...In the meanwhile, I should say your explanation seems as good as it can be...the CP and CF can't be ignored...the real secret is the design of both lever-weight system and the key here is the way they are housed to perform seamlessly for a long time...I mean sturdy housing... the lifting, swinging and falling of weights is amazing and happens simultaneously...gravity in conjunction with CF & CP aids all these three movements...there is one more factor which is angular momentum or should we call it the inertia that also can't be ignored... while all this may sound very complicated in actually it isn't...infac i, it is too simple and easy to capture at one glance hence the fear of losing the secret constantly exists... people here seem to be still strong in their beliefs that it can be easily duplicated by using computer simulation and by constantly changing the weight configuration...let them try it...as I said it is better to reveal when the time is ripe... because any guidance give now only draws flak...

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    7. In your opinion, what exactly is a prime mover?...

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    8. If I tell you that a weight gets lifted by itself, using its own power, requiring very little assistance ... would you believe?...well, that's what happens inside a BW...the weights are the perpetual motion themselves...

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    9. Suresh - I haven't given this too much thought. Some days I think it is the complete mechanism that, when bolted to the wheel lets say, does the lifting of the weights in the overbalanced wheel part (MT9 - MT16). Then on some days I think we should focus on the force in the mechanism that is responsible for making the mechanism work, and in my previous post I said I think it is CF.

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    10. If a weight can be forced along a certain path changing it's speed, so it rises higher than it fell, then in a way you could say the weight is itself the prime mover.

      I see the mechanism to be something like a Milkovic two stage oscillator, different in operation, but same principle. CF from a swinging weight on the lower side of the wheel lifts a weight on the upper part of the wheel.

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    11. Suresh you should at least be able to say what the driving force is (CF, momentum transfer thru collision, etc.). Stating this gives nothing away. There is no unaccounted force we do not know about, but the way it can be applied is the unique part.

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    12. Ok, let me try to logically explain the energy source behind the BW...Wind is the source for Windmill...Water to waterwheel...so can we accredit gravity to gravitymill?..(BW)... Here, I think any pulling force similar to gravity should work...Maybe, pouring water constantly from above should also operate BW...draining water from below the tank housing BW should also be tried...showering wind constantly from above or suction from below should also be able to power BW...magnets placed strategitically should also empower BW...all these are meant in places where gravity is absent or to increase the efficiency of BW...the two stage oscillator stated by you isn't anywhere similar to the one in BW...it's both the design and it's housing that enables all said forces to drive the BW...the weights seem to be the prime mover here, by all counts... isn't it?...

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    13. Well obviously nothing moves without gravity so in a way you can say Gravity is the prime mover. Gravity moves the weights and the weights produce the unbalanced force, so in a way you could also say the weights are the prime mover.

      But what is lacking in both of these definitions is the unique unbalanced force produced by the weight in some collision or movement (such as CF). I believe only the unbalanced force is the prime mover since without it, overunity would not exist.

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    14. To trick the gravity an extremely clever design of the internal components is adapted...it is a three pronged act done simultaneously to get the desired lift timely...the actual trick happens on the ascending side...as the weights here ascend they also ensure they are close to the axle while the opposite weights falling remain farther...over-balance is achieved...I fail to understand the unbalanced force stated by you... Unbalanced force is the result of the above action...when weights get arranged as stated above it is the gravity that ensures continuous supply of force on both sides of the wheel...it might be hard to understand how gravity assists in lifting...but it does...as I said before gravity is tricked...

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    15. Saying the weights are closer on the ascending side and farther out on the descending side is a description of an overbalanced wheel like MT9. What force moves the weights inward and outward. Just as an ice skater has to expend energy to pull in their arms when spinning, so does the wheel. Where does this energy come from? Further, if you pull in a weight at the bottom and push a weight up at the top (movements occur along the vertical), you have to fight gravity as well. Where does this energy come from? The energy gained by the wheel due to the overbalance matches the energy to raise the weights, leaving nothing extra to perform work much less overcome friction. The prime mover is something aside from the weights in the overbalanced wheel. The prime mover has to create a net positive force - what I was referring to as the "unbalanced" force - for lack of a better term.

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    16. The actual BW isn't anything like the MT9... The weights infact hang from the inner circumference...during the beginning of the initial rotation the first weight automatically begins it's swing...this is enabled by gravity...by swinging the distance is covered fast...this is the first energy gain...the second weight follows suit and then the third and so on...so to reach the farthest point it is entirely assisted by gravity... Similarly, while ascending, gravity enables the weights to remain close to the center...this is due to a very clever design factor... This way gravity aids in the weights' ascent... Until you actually visualize this clever design you won't be able to understand what I am trying to say...and if I reveal it all I stand to lose... Karl could see this and proclaimed why no one had thought of it before...CP & CF also help but not so much as gravity...the wheel remains unbalanced throughout... Things happen fast...and maybe, when the wheel is in fast motion other forces take over...a pendulum cannot itself swing on its own if it is stationary...but it can when it is placed a little higher...in BW the weight at the zenith is at an advantageous position so the first swing is automatic... ultimately, you have to first design the wheel to understand how the energy gain happens...

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    17. Even as you say, if the energy gained due to over-balance is matched, the process goes on as the next weight takes over...and, once a certain speed is reached it becomes difficult to stop the wheel and braking reqd...

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  52. The wheel is a precisely formed group of identical..... no just close...... identical mechanisms that work in harmony. Having maintained a .00010 tolerance on a piece of marshmallow like material for over 9 years as sole source for missiles, because no one else would even try.... precise, calibrated equipment is a must and I do no envy your situation Sir However, your cause is a noble one and there is always a way..... somehow You never know what you can do until you try.......try..................try................Never, Never, Never give up

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  53. John- I'm happy to hear you'll be posting again after your vacation. I thought perhaps you'd been working on your wheel. Best Regards.

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    1. Thank you sojourner, I shall be working on my wheel and determined to finish it in the next very few weeks. It’s been a difficult six months due to family illnesses but things are improving and giving me the necessary time to devote to the wheel.

      I’ll post my nes blog in a day or so.

      JC

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  54. Ooooooooo Boy.......... really glad to hear the family is doing better. Waiting to hear of your progress. As I recall, Bessler made a comment that he had figured out a couple of ways to do this. I guess the early wheels that required being tied had a different mechanism than the later wheels which required a push. Was there a statement about only wanting to sell one version where he seemed to hint that he could make another version and let the purchaser use the one that they had purchased. Not just one way, but multiple avenues could be used

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    1. Bessler did say something like that but I always had the impression that he meant different weight materials, or varied ways of designing the mechanism to act in the same way.

      It is and always has been my firm belief that both kinds of wheels had the same mechanism. I’ll explain why I think that soon.

      JC

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    2. I agree with John. There were comments that the wheel had to be spun faster and faster until the internal mechanism kicked in. This would seem to indicate Bessler used CF to trip the shifting mechanism into action.

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  55. John,
    I'm looking forward to hearing about your progress. Good luck with your build.
    -Tim

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  56. Approx, how fast will a wheel turn? Is this formula right? RPM = 16/C X 60
    16 = is a constant. (A weight will fall 16 ft. in 1 sec. starting from rest).
    C = circumference of the working weight of the wheel in feet.
    60 = number sec. in one minuet.
    16 divided by 36 = .444 X 60 = 26.666 RPM Which was the RPM of the 4th wheel, no load. can anyone tell me if this is right? Sam Peppiatt

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    1. Per reported information the Kassel Wheel (4th wheel) turned at 26RPM.

      http://www.besslerwheel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Wheel_Output

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  57. Be ready to quickly download videos or to record off the screen with a camera. And to make many many copies and pass them around. Very soon.

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After 300 Years Bessler’s Wheel is Nigh.

One of the endless problems we face, researching Johann Bessler’s claims to have invented and built a perpetual motion machine, is the reac...