## Sunday, 15 November 2015

### More of Bessler's numbering clues in ‘Das Triumphans’.

After the two illustrations discussed in my previous post I have decided to offer my findings in another of the illustrations; this time the ‘Andere Figura’ and the ‘Secunda Figura in ‘Das Triumphans’.  Again I am discussing the numbering used in them.  I have placed a copy of the drawing below.  Again a single click on the picture will bring up an enlarged version so you can see the numbering more clearly.

The first thing to note in the pictures shown above, is that the right side of the left picture has been truncated slightly. In the book they are separated by a small gap filled with thin black and white lines, clearly designed to allow for the inner margins being partially enclosed by the book binding.  These lines allow you to bring the edges of the two illustrations close together as shown above.

In the drawing above you can see that the left circle can be completed and joins at the circumference of the right circle.  Notice that the circle I've drawn in, does not follow the original one as it leaves the left page.  This is due to the page being pulled inwards at the central binding which has slightly deformed the printed circle.  I always thought that the two pages were intended to be joined and I tested the theory with my original copy of  DT, by pressing the pages flat with a piece of glass and adjusting the right page until the thin black and white dividing lines were hidden.  It was then possible to draw in the complete circle to show that it did indeed abut the right circle.  As a check, note that the left half of my added circle aheres closely to the original one and that it only diverges as the bend in the paper aproaches the central crease.

In the above picture you can see yet aother pentagram inside the left picture. Notice how the extension of one of the chords of the pentagram runs through the middle of the right picture. This extension to the pentagon is governed by the close proximity of the two pictures so one must assume that the extension is intentional.  The main supporting pillar forms a perfect angle of 72 degrees with the extended chord, thus indicating the rotational angle of a second pentagon.

I've included the additional pentagram in the above picture, which may seem more speculative and I must admite that although it looks possible, I have found it difficult to draw in a perfect pentagram so please add a pinch of salt to this particular suggestion.

In the right side picture above, the large triangular pendulum has some curious properties which seem to be additional clues.  They are 30 degrees for the bottom angle, and 78 and 72 degrees for the upper left and right angles respectively.  The 72 degree angle obviously fits in with the hidden pentagon, but is there an additional clue there?  Of course!

The second thing is that the right picture seems to have an excess of the number eight (four).  This over-labelling looks suspiciously like the same technique I have described for the two first wheel pictures.  Could this be another indication of a grand total being sought?

Yes - the numbers in the left picture add up to 28; those in the right, 62, to total 90.  There are 15 numbers used and 90 divided by 15 is six.  But this does not seem to be a significant number, however Bessler’s favourite number 5, divides exactly 18 times into 90 – 5 and 18; the ubiquitous pentagonal numbers again.  Secondly the numbers used, 1 to 10, add up to a total of 55 – the other Bessler number.

JC

10a2c5d26e15f6g7h10ik12l3m6n14o14r5s17tu6v5w4y4-3,’.

#### 59 comments:

1. Very nicely presented, John. In fact, probably the best blog I've seen so far and easily followed. It appears that you have found pentagrams within the two Kassel wheel illustrations and various significant angles and sums of angles as well. However, as I read through the material, I kept asking myself "Where are all these "clues" heading?". Well, I assume that this is just the beginning of what you've discovered and, eventually, that question will be answered. Ultimately, to be considered more than just an interesting and nonobvious expression of Bessler's obsession with numerology, these clues have to translate into "the" imbalanced pm wheel mechanics he used. That is the meat of the matter and this is just the gravy so far, but certainly a tasty gravy.

Update. I made a minor and, hopefully, significant discovery of my own last night in the second DT portrait. I suddenly "saw" a relationship between the 7:30 and 9:00 levers which never occurred to me before and it was only the relentless analysis of that "ink blot" clue I mentioned last blog that led to it. It's now obvious to me that the ascending side levers in Bessler's wheels were extremely delicately counterbalanced against each other and that state could, literally, be perturbed using the pressure from a single fingertip! Of course, such pressure was not used inside of the drum, but, rather, was cleverly supplied by another lever via a rope connection. I still have much testing to do and, hopefully, I'll have something significant to report by the end of this week.

2. ....
indeed, Ken, where do all these clues lead to?
We are looking for a mechanism which is able to make an anbalanced wheel turn for ever.
The primary goal is to lift the weights.

What did Bessler tell us about this?
Citing from his Book:

...
Auch Wagner hört, wo er noch lebt,
wie ein Pfund mehr als eines hebt.
...

My translation:
...
and also Wagner hears, if he is still alive
how one pound lifts more than one.
...

So.... the mechanism we are looking for is very noisy..
A lot of witnesses stated that.
They also stated, that the wheel makes the noise to the side it rotates.
(The two-sided wheel)
--> To the right: Noise audible in the angle from 1...5 o'clock or
--> to the left: angle between 7...11 o'clock.

Otherwise its not possible to assign the sound to the rotational direction.

Sum it up:
A noisy mechanism.
A falling weight over one quarter
Lifts up (flips, slings, flinges, throws)
4 times the weight (=more than is falling)
over four quarters.

There are only two possibilities:
The noise comes from the falling weight - or from the ascending weight.
And where would you position the ascending wight if you would like
to make an overbalanced wheel...: at 1 o'clock... or 11 o'clock.
hmmmmm.....

Btw: Why did he use quarter for the lifting of weights.... and not foot,zoll,elle...
(Have you thought about my previous, mysteriously vanished post?)

again my two cents
5park

1. Sorry about your previously vanished post, I had just discovered a large number of so-called spam in a separate file, some of which weren't spam. I deleted them somewhat hastily and I may have deleted yours by mistake. My apologies.

As for your question about quarters, I am fully aware of the subject matter but have my own ideas about it which I don't want to comment on at this point.

JC

2. @Anonymous

Most of the sounds issuing from Bessler's wheels were due to the descending side weights "gently" coming back to rest on their wooden stops near the rim. Other sounds would have been produced by the system of gravity activated latches he used to achieve bidirectionality in a wheel. Also, don't get too hung up over that quote about a quarter pound falling a quarter and making four pounds fly up four quarters. That was not taking place in his wheels. The process he alludes to in the quote requires that the four pounds of weight be very carefully counterbalanced so that such a motion becomes possible. In his wheels there was a precise interconnection between the 9:00 lever and the rest of the levers on the descending side so that the 9:00 lever and its end weight could be very easily shifted as the drum rotated and the 7:30 and even 6:00 lever began swinging in closer to the axle. Finding the precise parameters for the parts he used such as the spring constants, weight / lever masses, and coordinating rope attachment points is no easy task. So far, I've tried over 1400 wm2d models in an attempt to find it. Well, I have something now, based on previously unnoticed second DT portrait clues that looks promising and I am pursuing it. Bessler did provide a way to reverse engineer his wheels, but it is encrypted using various geometric symbols in the portraits and alphanumeric codes in the text under the portraits. Yes, the answer is there, but the reverse engineer must dig like his life depends on it to find them. I do make progress, but it is very slow. If I'm very, very lucky I may have "it" by this Christmas. If I do, I'll, of course, announce it here and then begin the process of preparing the find for publication.

3. Thank you, Ken, for sharing your insights here. At least one who is willing
to listen.
I'm very convinced that Bessler used exactly that mechanism
in his wheel. And I'm willing to share my insights here with you.

Quoting Bessler:
...
Der wird ein großer Künstler heissen,
wer ein schwer Ding leicht hoch kann schmeissen.
Und wenn ein Pfund ein Viertel fällt,
Es vier Pfund hoch vier Viertel schnellt.
...
already did the Translation here.
But read further:
...
Wer dieses aus kann spekulieren,
wird bald den Lauf perpetuieren,
Wer dieses aber noch nicht weiß
Da ist vergebens aller Fleiß.
...
My translation:
the one, who can speculate this
will soon perpetuate the run.
But the one, who doesn't know
there is no hope despite his diligence.

And that is what a man told us, who made a
real, working PM. We should not turn a deaf ear to his advice.

I think Bessler has chosen his words very carefully.
He said/wrote everything - but didn't tell anything.
Yes - we have to think by ourself. Maybe we have to think a new way.

Thats all for now. More to come.
5park

pn to 5park(klammeraffe)re-gister.com

4. Yes, that is a somewhat starting quote and I've seen several translations of it, one being "Who about this can speculate, will soon the motion perpetuate." This is probably the only couplet in AP that maintains a rhyme after being translated into English. However, as I stated previously, I don't believe Bessler was referring to using one and four pound weights as suggested because it is ordinarily not possible to have a single one pound weight drop a certain distance so as to cause a four pound weight to rise four times that distance. However, it is possible to do this stunt if one can somehow effectively reduce the weight of the four pound weight by applying a lifting force to it. But, that force is not provided by another weight because then one would have more than a single one pound dropping. Rather than an extra assisting or counterbalancing weight dropping, one could use a stretched spring to help lift the four pound weight. Bessler admitted at least once that his wheels used springs in their design. I believe I know how the springs were used. They played a critical role in reducing the effective weight at the end of the 9:00 lever as that lever moved to the 10:30 position of the drum during wheel rotation. However, I am still wrestling with how the weights in his wheels on the ascending side were "dropping" (by swinging inward toward the axle at the ends of their levers) and how their levers were connected to the 9:00 lever. When I find the precise coordinating rope connections he used, the resulting motion should be smooth and keep the center of mass of the wheel on its descending side as the drum accelerates up to its maximum unloaded rotation rate. I know it can be done because, obviously, Bessler did it. But, I'm now over 1400 wm2d models and still not there. Hopefully, this will soon change.

Btw, Bessler's old stomping ground was in the news today. As I'm sure everyone here knows by now, last Friday the 13th ISIS inspired terrorists attacked a lot of unarmed people over in Paris and, as a result, over a hundred died and about 300 were injured, about 100 of them critically. Now, all of Europe is finally wakening up to the menace posed by those fanatics and they have dramatically increased security. Today it was reported that the police found a van loaded with explosives that someone had parked outside of a soccer stadium in Hanover, Germany. As a result, they were able to foil another planned attack and save many lives. I found it coincidental that Hanover is in Lower Saxony which is close to the region that Bessler did his pm wheel building in three centuries ago. Bessler, as most know, was obsessed with numerology. So, too, the extremist Islamic terrorists also seem to be obsessed with numerology as was suggested by their picking Friday the 13th for the Paris attack. They like to plan attacks for certain numerologically "significant" dates with the hope that will increase the success of the attack. I'm wondering if they did not choose to try to do an attack in Hanover because they know Bessler was in that region almost 3 centuries ago and he used a lot of numerology in his writings? Perhaps they thought because of that the attack in Hanover would have an enhanced chance of success?

3. @Ken

quote:
<
I don't believe Bessler was
referring to using one and four pound weights as suggested because it is
ordinarily not possible to have a single one pound weight drop a certain
distance so as to cause a four pound weight to rise four times that distance.
>

You are definitely right. I agree with you 110%.
This is what took me about 2 years to tinker.

But why should I have to tinker further? What reasons for looking deeper?

Here is my personal reasoning:
Besslers Book(s) were well published at his lifetime.
He always wanted to sell his PM.
He always wanted to be recognised as an honest person, who invented
a real PM.
So what would happen if he (or the buyer) had uncovered the secrets of his
wheel and everybody could see how it works?
His own fear was that the people laugh at him because the wheel was so
simple. --> look! there isn't much art in it!!

And now one could compare the book and the wheel.
And everybody will say: Hah! - he just fooled us with his writings!!
He's a liar!!

And this is why I think that Bessler wrote _exactly_ how the wheel works.
In fact, I think if you have an uncovered wheel in front of your eyes and you
read the book(s) you will see every corresponding part.

The same is true for his central riddle. It describes the primary forces
which move the wheel. It describes the detailed mechanism of how he made it
working. And it describes exactly how the controlling and timing is made.

So why distrust his writings? Start with some faith in what he told us.

I'm personally convinced that the key for a possible solution is the meaning
of the quarter.

I will share my insights here - but first I want to pave the way for that new(?)
idea. John seems to be well aware of this. But he is not willing to discuss it.
How many had this idea before... and kept it secret.

I think this is the wrong way. I do not want to urge John to disclose his results,
nor do I want to offend him. My decision is made.

Its always the same.... Bessler died and took his secret into the grave...
And nothing ever changes.
I cannot speak for others. But _I_ will go one step further. I have not a final solution,
but I have a new starting point and maybe some steps further.

stay tuned
5park

PS.: Thank you for listening....

1. Hi 5park,

The reason I'd prefer not to discuss it at this time is because I'm writing a full account of all that I know including the 'quarters'. I have the full solution and am engaged in building a wheel under the most trying circumstances, i.e. trying to sell my house and find a new one.

I am also writing an account of all of Bessler's clues which I have uncovered and deciphered and how they relate to the solution. I discovered the physical principle which is necessary to incorporate in the mechanism about three years ago and have encoded it at the bottom of my posts since then. Subsequently I found complete confirmation in two of Bessler's clues plus more supporting evidence which could only be explained by the principle.

I'm also writing a script for the video I intend to publish as soon as the wheel is finished. I have never intended to try to patent the device, for reasons I have fully explained before. So if I can gain some kind of financial rewar for my efforts without a patent then I think this at least is the way to go.

I have been in touch for some three or four years with a documentary maker who wishes to be involved from the first sign of success, so I have everything to go for, but......I'm well aware of the little trip-ups that life throws at us all and I am taking steps to make sure that if anything unfortunate should happene to me, all my work will be released for publication immediately, both openly and clandestinely.

JC

4. @ 5park:

Well, I do agree that if one had an uncovered Bessler wheel in front of him and a copy of DT, then he would begin to see the wheel's mechanics described in various clues in DT. I, of course, am very firmly convinced that all of those clues are in the two frontispiece portraits. Yes, Bessler was concerned that if he sold the invention, then, when the mechanics were finally publicly disclosed, people would say it was not very artful. To me that just means that the mechanics did not involve some sort of complicated clockwork mechanism as was found in Wagner's dual mainspring powered "intrinsic motion" wheel. Bessler's mechanics, imo, only used weights, levers, ropes, and, most importantly, springs. I'm also convinced that the springs are critical to the successful operation of his wheels. They allow some of the lost gravitational potential energy of the weights and levers on a wheel's ascending side to be temporarily stored, accumulated, and then released to help raise the weights leading the 9:00 lever all the way over to those on the descending side to each slowly shift closer to their wooden stops attached to the inner surface of the drum's outer rim. These springs were an important component in helping to counter balance the 9:00 weighted lever as its pivot moved through 45 degrees from the 9:00 to 10:30 positions of the drum. Well, counter balancing that lever is important, but not enough. One must then attach additional coordinating ropes between the 9:00 lever and other levers in the wheel to help "induce" the shifting motion in the 9:00 lever. A precise arrangement of ropes is required and it must have took Bessler a tremendous amount of work to find the particular arrangement that worked. Once he found it, however, he had a wheel that finally managed to keep its center of mass always on the wheel's descending side even though it was rotating. That then provided continuous torque and allowed outside machinery connected to the axle to be operated.

Sadly, I don't expect rediscovering Bessler's secret imbalanced pm wheel mechanics to lead to any big revolution in energy generation on our planet. That, imo, will happen after we figure out how to make compact fusion reactors. There are several dozen groups working on this problem now and each has an approach that they are convinced will work. So far, they are still very far away from the sustained plasma temperature of about 5.4 billion degrees Fahrenheit required for the fusion to happen at a rate that will output commercially significant amounts of energy, but they get a bit closer with every attempt.

So, 5park, I look forward to seeing anything you believe you've found with regards to Bessler's wheels. Many have come and gone over the years claiming they had "the" answer only to be bitterly disappointed when they finally realized that they did not. Hopefully, either you or John or me will be the exception. I feel I'm very close now, but I've been "very close" for years.

5. @Ken

quote
...
Sadly, I don't expect rediscovering Bessler's secret imbalanced pm wheel
mechanics to lead to any big revolution in energy generation on our planet.
...

That would be really sad, Ken. But I'm pretty convinced that a working PM
will change the kind of thinking about energy an physics in general.
Because it contradicts the accepted "laws", these laws have to be revised and
reformulated or extended.

And this in turn will open a wide variety of possibilities for gaining energy from
the environment or nature.

@ John

quote:
<...
I discovered the physical
principle which is necessary to incorporate in the mechanism about three years
ago and have encoded it at the bottom of my posts since then.
...>

Thats great, John. But why should someone waste its time to decode a second source
if he can decode the origin (Bessler)?
And because you put it out in public - although encoded - I hope you feel not offended
if I will now start to decode the original source. Thank you for asking, Ken.

===============================================

The key is indeed the meaning of the quarter.
It is not meant as a measure of length or height. It is a measure of arc.

so write down:
If one pound falls over 90 deg.
It flips/flinges/spins up four pounds over 4x90 deg.

Now one may ask: How should I move something up when moving in a circle?
But the answer is obvious: Bessler never said you have to use a constant radius.
The movement follows an open spiral path.

Its a kind of parametric swing, like a children swing. Thats all.
The trick is to use the mass to accelerate it by itself - let it fall.
This is what mass wants to do.
And then use the smaller weight to shift the center of the movement and the
bigger mass will accelerate further. The parametric effect.
There are two aspects of mass - the heavy mass and the inertial mass.
As I said... the riddle: rain and snow - two aspects of one thing.
Bessler was well aware of this.

Everything makes sense now:
You have to throw a havy weight easily up.
And yes. This will make noise. Or have you ever thrown something
and it landed silently?

So - thats all for now, Ken.
Sincerely
5park

pn 5park(klammeraffe)re-gister.com

1. I only put the encoded piece at the end of my posts to prove I had it three years ago - in case you or someone should discover it subsequently. Not for any financial gain, merely to say I got there first!

So go for it 5park, decode the original.

BTW I am pleased to say that your working on a different design to mine, but good luck to you.

JC

2. 5park wrote:

"Its a kind of parametric swing, like a children swing. Thats all.
The trick is to use the mass to accelerate it by itself - let it fall.
This is what mass wants to do.
And then use the smaller weight to shift the center of the movement and the
bigger mass will accelerate further. The parametric effect."

First, the idea that by "quarter" Bessler meant 90 degrees is not new. Others have made thatt interpretation and tried to produce mechanisms from it. None were successful. Also, you seem to be describing each of the "perpetual motion structures" in Bessler's wheels as involving two weights, one of which "falls" or "swings" through an arc of 90 degrees, while the other rises through an arc of 360 degrees or somewhat vertically so as to shift the center of mass of the wheel onto the descending side. Years ago, I tried many, many such isolated two weight shifting systems. None worked. They certainly looked workable on paper, but then computer simulation showed the problem. These types of two weight mechanisms all need to "reset" as they travel around to the ascending side of the wheel and then up and over the top of the wheel. That's when the problem occurs because, while one is waiting for that reset to occur, the center of mass of the wheel drops right down to an equilibrium position below the axle and then there is no more torque acting on the axle. But, maybe you have a different approach and I wish you luck with it.

btw. I finally figured out how to add a photo to my google account and some may have noticed my new avatar. No, it's not a photo of me, but, rather, of the Andromeda galaxy which is about 2.54 million light years from Earth. I've had a lifelong interest in astronomy and a particular interest in this galaxy. If we ever develop the ability to engage in intergalactic travel, this is probably the first galaxy outside of our home Milky Way that we will explore. It is very similar in size to ours and, most likely, contains many Earth-like planets with technologically advanced humanoid life. Somewhere on one of those worlds right now there could be the alien equivalent of Bessler who has just found an imbalanced pm wheel mechanism that works. Soon he will be constructing a larger version for public exhibition and is anticipating selling it for a fortune. Maybe, his fate will be different from that of "our" Bessler.

6. John, just because you posted some design info in coded form doesn't necessarily mean you got there first. Someone may have come up with the same theory before you and just kept it to himself. Just saying. ;)

1. I agree with you jso. When I first found the principle, I thought I could easily find a way to apply it, but it hasn't been that simple.

In fact without Bessler's help I could not have got to the stage I'm at now. As the weeks passed I wondered if anyone else had also found the same principle, and were perhaps getting ready to announce a working wheel. I thought that even if I made a working wheel first, he could still say that he discovered the principle first, so I thought of copying Sir Christopher Wrenn and Gallileo trick who each published their discoveries hidden in a short piece of code.

I liked the idea and I certainly wouldn't and won't have lost any sleep if it turned out that another person had beaten me to the solution. It was and is just a piece fun and won't be of any financial value.

In fact I have to admit that the original description that I encoded has been lost and without I can't decipher exactly what I encoded! My computer threw a wobbly about a year ago and I lost a lot of files and although I've carried out a number of searches it has simply disappeared so I guess I can now delete the bit of encoding still there. I was always forgetting to add it anyway so It's kind of a relief not to have to bother with any more.

Of course I could replace the code with a new one but I simply can't see the point.

All the best,

JC

2. Now that's interesting. A code so complex even the code maker can't figure it out! The only codes I stick with are the ones Bessler used in those two DT portraits. Unfortunately, they also present a challenge because the code maker of them has been dead for almost three centuries now. My research has now come down to decoding only a single symbol in the second portrait: that odd little circular sector chart near the carpenter's plumb bob. I'm convinced that it contains the final clues that must be properly interpreted in order to successfully reverse engineer Bessler's secret imbalanced pm wheel mechanics. I'm still working on it and have a new interpretation that I will be testing tomorrow. As usual, I feel I'm extremely close to having "it", but no guarantee, of course. Bitter failure is the "norm" for pm chasers and success only comes to those with phenomenal luck. Perhaps in any century only one of tens or hundreds of thousands of inventors ever finds a design that works and then, as though Nature abhorred him having found success, events inevitably conspire to make sure the secret is lost. If I am successful, I will be doing everything I possibly can to make sure that the secret is not lost again.

3. Whoa, wait a minute, K.B.

". . . success only comes to those with phenomenal luck. . . ."

Well, what about those who do not have luck naturally but do insight, phenomenal or merely excellent? What about them? (I have NEVER been lucky in anything; never won anything; any progress that I have ever made in any single thing has been by virtue of insight or work or both, but never luck. This is for others. Over an entire lifetime I have envied others their luck. I assume this to be as some sort of lesson or hurdle or other. No freebies for James EVER!!!)

K.B., saw "Soul of a Monster" - 1944 this A.M. Pretty dreary it seemed. I really only watched it because pianist Ervin Nyiregyhazi was in it playing his usually potent Liszt. The guy who did the transfer (and many others too) apparently shoots a back-projected screen, and so his results give that "flashlight" effect where the centers are light and all else darker. One commenter there called him something really naughty for doing so.

- James -

4. As I continue to age, hopefully "gracefully", I'm becoming more and more of a determinist. I'm starting to think everything in life is purely a matter of luck. One has to start off by having a lucky combination of genes that will give him a sound mind in a sound body, then he has to be lucky enough to be in a supportive family within a stable society, he has to be lucky enough to have good teachers and the curiosity and enthusiasm to actually benefit from them, and, as he travels out into life, he has to be lucky enough to pursue activities that will lead to successful results. I now look at life like a state lottery. Most people will have average luck and get a few of the 6 drawn numbers on their ticket. Of those, a few will be lucky enough to get the minimum needed for some sort of cash prize. A very few will be lucky enough to get some significant amount of money. A very rare individual will be lucky enough to get all 6 of the numbers and get a "life changing" win. Sadly, a lot of people will only get tickets having 1 or none of the drawn numbers on them. When I think of the tons of losing tickets thrown in the trash after each drawing it makes me think of the unlucky people among us. They suffer all sorts of medical problems, failed relationships, and disappointments and can, eventually, wind up institutionalized or even dead. The world prefers to pretend they do not exist and wants only to see how the "rich and famous" are doing. The myth that anybody can "pull themselves up by their bootstraps" is a powerful one in American society. Sadly, it is only a myth. Yes, luck is very important and that's why a lot of people are carrying rabbits feet, crossing themselves, praying, and not leaving their houses on Friday the 13th. Well, if some of the people over in Paris had followed that practice, they might be alive right now! So, when it comes to Bessler's wheels or any other exotic project, one must not beat himself up too much if all he find is ultimate failure. It's not really his fault. It's just that he wasn't lucky enough. There's always the possibility that one's dismal failure in one area of life will be compensated for by outstanding luck in another area so that, over the course of his life, he will have had average luck overall. But, that is not guaranteed.

"Soul of a Monster" sounds somewhat interesting. I've never heard of it, but assume it's some sort of Dr. Jekyll / Mr. Hyde type plot. I'm always interested in any plots where the main character, due to bad luck, becomes the tragic victim of some curse or science experiment gone awry. Currently, I'm watching a flick titled "Cosmic Man" from 1959. It stars John Caradine as an alien who comes to Earth on some mission. He parks his UFO in a canyon and begins wondering around a nearby town. He has the ability to turn either partially or completely invisible. His craft is a ceramic sphere about 15 feet in diameter that remains hovering several feet off of the ground. I'm only half way through it and at the point where the military has found the craft and are trying to remove it. Unfortunately for them, its anti-gravity system literally locks it in position and they can't bulge it even with a truck mounted crane! So far, it's very interesting and I'm amazed I'd never heard of it before.

5. I am gratified, K.B., that I was the inspiration for such a good, small essay on the subject of luck. ' Twas most informative and inspiring of thought.

It reminded me of the fact that I've not had BAD luck either, and also, actually rather much of it health-wise, with nary a blip on the Health-O-Meter at all in seventy years.

Much of this I attribute, K.B. to having lived most of my life as isolated from people. Not only physical things they can infect one with, but can also convey madness from it's light to most heavy forms, much like a virus, actually. Too much contact with an excess of one's own can get one sunk-deep in myriads of most unpleasant ways. Males, for instance, way too often sacrifice their selves and sanity to the Heterocentric Impress Machine (and impress to conforming flatness it most certainly does) in their projects of family-making and tending. Only very rarely do such ill-advised efforts result in ideal "Father Knows Best" end scenarios, their getting ground-up and spat-out essentially, with but brief 'thanks' spoken before lowered into their coffins! I was lucky to have avoided all that and do intend to continue. On third thought - I guess I have been lucky in the truly important ways.

Well, also I am gratified to have stumped the expert on B&W Horror Film Legend and Lore.

Did not do this intentionally, of course, but it was this time a matter of apparent . . . luck?

In closing, had a pesky Greenie showing over at "that other p-m site" and did a poking thingy and . . . POOF . . . gone! Things ARE looking up. Perhaps my luck IS being restored.

- James -

6. In the Middle Ages the concept of the "Wheel of Fortune" (an image of which is one of the major arcana Tarot cards) was developed. It suggests that we are all sort of like on an ever turning wheel. Sometimes we are at the bottom of the wheel near the muck and our luck is bad and, at other times, we're at the top of the wheel and enjoying good luck in the Sun. ( I often wonder if this image of the ever turning wheel of fortune was actually inspired by Man's millennia long search for pm?!) However, a small number of people seem to spend a lot more time near the top of the wheel than they do near the bottom while others, far less fortunate, spend most of their lives near the bottom.

I tend to be a sociable type of person and dislike excessive isolation even though it tends to help me focus my mind on solving various types of problems. Yes, it would be nice if we could all have come from "Father Knows Best" types of homes. They are rare and most kids nowadays are lucky just to have two parents in a stable committed relationship present in their lives.

I finished watching "Cosmic Man" and my critique of it is on youtube now. The film has its faults, but I was amazed at the amount of accurate detail it contained about its subject and, consequently, have given it a somewhat positive review.

Sounds like you are still struggling to collect "Greenie's" on "another free energy site". If you need something green, I suggest going for a walk in a nice park on a sunny day. Just waking up each day and hitting the floor with two working legs is enough for me. Once a person is six feet under, all of the Greenie's in the universe will be totally irrelevant as far as he is concerned. There was a doctor who died in a nearby town a few years ago. Someone was passing his home as the new owners were cleaning out his abandoned belongings that his heirs did not want. The passerby noticed that the deceased doctor's various diplomas and even his medical degree had been deposited in a trash can at the curb. Sort of puts everything into perspective...

7. Well K.B. I guess I'm just around it's pivot area; not good, not bad.

I had a more-or-less sort of family setup like that. There were only two or three people in the whole school that you could have termed minorities and they were pampered celebrities on account. Coulda been way, way worse like it is now with 90%. The new minorities, formerly the majorities, don't have a chance and they are NOT "pampered". Low-level slow revenge, seems these new days' order.

I shall be investigating soon "Cosmic Man" myself. It sounds rather good and creative.

No, K.B. You have it wrongly understood. Sorry.

I am struggling to NOT collect them but, some of the small fry Singleites and Twosters (bless their hearts) come around and see my solo battle going on against the GREAT OLD ONES who are monsters of a sort when challenged (I am sure that various of them would murder me if ever they were to get the chance), and do not fail to perceive the meaning within what is actually taking place, and so, in-sympathy they punch a Green for me occasionally, this then upping me to ONE when enough. I then have to cause a ruckus in order to get rid of it and back down to no rep.

My goal there is to remain at "No Reputation" even though I do have a very big and nasty one actually to the Sinistrals. It is protest by means of self-sacrifice against what I believe to be a CANCEROUS, moribund filthy clique wickedness that is very sick. That's it.

"Enjoy yourself, it's later than you think; enjoy yourself while you're still in-the-pink."

Here are our instructions, K.B., as you yourself might have written them from long ago . . .

http://www.jazz-on-line.com/a/mp3o/DEC24825x.mp3 (copy paste and drop into any player for a late 1940's treat.)

That is a very sad accounting about the Doctor's effects being thrown away. This happened to a multi-millionaire friend of mine when he died. A great BIG dumpster was in front of the house just filled with his programs, photos and all kinds of stuff from when he had been a symphony conductor. He was just a giant piggy bank for his family, and when gone just dumped too. Materialism.

That song will help cement into place the issue, perspective-wise.

- James -

8. I found the "Enjoy Yourself" tune rather apropos and it's message is more relevant today than when it was first written. Thanks for the link. No doubt it was inspired by the hell of WWII that cut so many tens of millions of lives short with most of them being non-combatants. All victims of an almost diabolical nationalism that quickly turned pathological. Quite sadly, there are people right now who are making all sorts of plans for this Christmas holiday and even next spring and summer and a certain percentage of them will be cold in their graves on Christmas day! I, of course, don't intend to be one of them!

I had the impression, mistakenly, that you were on a quest to increase your number of treasured "Greenies" on "another free energy site" and thereby be in a position to flaunt your exalted status to all those with only a single one to boast of. But, you are purposely trying to achieve a state of non-dothood?! Most curious. Well, I wish you luck, but, hopefully, you will not overshoot and accumulate four of the "Reddies" which, on some sites, can trigger expulsion and ridicule. I believe that if Bessler were alive today and tried joining such a site, he would probably have his IP addressed blocked in record time!

9. I am gratified and happy that you did, K.B.

Since I heard so much Guy Lombardo (of our good neighbors to the north, the Canadians) material in the Forties and Fifties, it is in my soul, really. They and others such as Les Paul and Mary Ford (his pretty and so-talented wife/partner) and Kay Starr and Jo Stafford. I know these will ring bells within you, K.B. for, while watching all of those B&W great flicks (horror and Sci-Fi) we were also hearing this material that just somehow seeped into us.

You misunderstood, I suppose, because I'd not taken time enough to make the details of it clear.

Yes, correct, as in "He has NO reputation with WE, the discussing-exalted; WE-KNOW-HIM-NOT!" and therefore on the account that they themselves have made, by them the reverse will be found true uniformly and irrevocably when The Hammer descends.

Awhile ago (actually a decade now) I started observing which were the good of them, and which not. Excepting for the myriad of In-betweens, all have been assigned their due and proper places (this according to MY determination) as Sinistrals or Dextrals within the N&N List. (The "creepy list" according to the King Cockroach of them all.)

Of the Dextrals there are only ever to be TWELVE and no more, ONE for each point of Bessler's Sacred Star. As for the other category, it may be any number as it may please them to be, as chosen from the unassigned teeming In-betweens, when and if they choose act-up or down, depending.

I know, it is most odd but, this is my defensive answer as an 'offense' to theirs, it being the 'good offense' to their wicked and murder-hearted at-basis one. Not any Rocket Science being done here, just the ancient old game played that Heterocentricism has assigned us to: warring; hatred; endless mindless competition, murder-heartedness (hate), and all the rest that makes what might otherwise have been Heaven-like into it's general opposite these so as to serve State blindly and it's owner/operators.

(This particular area is one to not be broached here on these near-sacred Q-P-M pages of John's. Over at YouTube the Great Final Tempest That Must Be is now materializing. It's opening salvos are all mine. Quite exciting it is, really, but dangerous.)

OK - NOW we come to IT !!!

No other tune title could possibly be more PERTINENT to this site that this one as sung by one Kay Starr in 1952 for CAPITOL Records:

http://www.jazz-on-line.com/a/mp3a/CAP1964y.mp3

It is totally self-explanatory, needing nothing further from little me. Enjoy.

- James -

10. Yeah, Kay Starr had such a melodious voice and I did enjoy her rendering of "Wheel of Fortune". One notable inconsistency, though. With a wheel of fortune one can only win when it stops spinning and is suspended in a state of expectancy as it spins. With a pm wheel one loses when it stops spinning and will only win if it continues to spin! Great tune, thanks.

11. Most welcomed, K.B.

What is a shame is that John himself apparently was not interested.

It is a shame for it might as well be the theme song for his site.

Really hard to figure, some folks are.

- James -

7. @ Ken,

quote:
First, the idea that by "quarter" Bessler meant 90 degrees is not new.

I'm convinced that this is not new. It's obvious. And it is correct.
There are no new ideas under the sun.
I just wonder why nobody wanted to discuss this...
My intention is to spread this idea a little wider.

quote:
I tried many, many such isolated two weight shifting systems. None worked.

That the weights act in pairs is Besslers own wording.
It may have different meaning. Would be nice to discuss this...

To build that thing alone in a garage is not my intention,
although I do some real experiments - no simulation.
I just want to make it happen. Who it does, doesn't matter.
It was already done by Bessler.

The reason I do not trust simulation is the following:
If there is a principle in nature which allows
"one pound to lift more than one pound"
then this would violate the so called conservation of energy.
And depending on the implementation of the simulator (which
just applies known rules) the outcome may be different.

IMHO the era of the lone wolf is over. They had their chance.
This time we should act together. Open Source is the new power.
Release early - release often.

Bessler's wise words:
Der Geiz ist eine Wurzel bös
One of his key-clues....Also valid for the mechanism.

@ John

quote:
In fact I have to admit that the original description that I encoded has
been lost and without I can't decipher exactly what I encoded!

:-))) How funny is that!
So the proof goes poof...
The only proof that you have "the real thing" is just to release it...

sincerely
5park

1. Yes the proof has gone poof! I know what I wrote but not the exact words, so counting the number letters and punctuation, which is what I did, doesn't help unless I can find the original sentence.

Anyway I'll hope to post something so.

JC

2. 5park wrote:

"That the weights act in pairs is Besslers own wording."

Yes, we're all familiar with the AP quote:

"a work of this kind of craftsmanship has, at its basis of motion, many separate pieces of lead. These come in pairs, such that as one of them takes up an outer position, the other takes up a position nearer the axle. Later, they swap places, and so they go on and on changing places all the time."

Note that he does not say that there is any direct mechanical connection between the weights in each "pair". I think he's just telling the reader here that the wheel is continuously imbalanced and that is how it develops a torque and accelerates. In other words, weights on the ascending side swing in toward the axle while those on the descending side move out closer to the drum's outer rim. So, he's clearly talking about two weights that are on opposite sides of the drum and, that being the case, one would expect the two weights to change places with each other every half rotation of the drum.

8. Hi john, write it.down and email it to yourself, then you won't forget how you believe it works

1. I may be misunderstanding you, Uneqk, but just make it clear, when I decided to post an encoded sentence on my blog, I designed it to contain a brief description of the principle I'd discovered. The wording was precise.

Then I counted how many letter 'a's there were and wrote '10a' to start it off. I continued to count all the letters and put them in alphabetical order. Impossible to decipher, I thought! It's that original sentence I've lost, not the principle itself. I can write another sentence to describe the principle and encode it and post it again but why bother? The actual solution is going to be published soon.

JC

2. John, anyone can code something that makes sense to themselves, but once the principle is known the code can be made to fit, without changing your coded numbers etc. You can go round the houses to make it fit. Its like what Ken said, once everyone knows, its simple to make things fit.
If you simply write down the principle in black and white then email it to yourself then you have solid proof.

9. As I "read out" from John last posts, he have working device allready about three years from now. But somewhare there is some small mistake in setup and system do not work. Or it works and John tryes to find good way (or day) to reveal it! History shows...
It is hard to discover it with only back engineering, and only trough codes. There must also understand trough some physical tests what and how to do ...
John, It is coded so cleverly and with lot of missleadings, that there is hard to find correct innerstructure only from codes. I just try to say, that even all puzzle peaces seems to be in right places, final "it" can be something else. Correct "it" can see afterwards, when you have seen "it" in work.

Eastlander

1. I have not had a working device yet, although I know how to make one now. Three years ago or thereabouts, I discovered the principle, but I did not know how to make the best use of it. Since then I have gradually worked it out with the help of Bessler's clues.

I am slowly building a wheel which I believe will work, but even now alterations have to be made. As an example, the principle demands a particular angle for a part of the configuraion, but in reality that angle does not initiate the first fall soon enough so the angle has to be reduced a little.

As far as I can tell everything is right with my design and it will be a matter of a few weeks until it can be tested, always provided that my house sells soon or I may have to leave it until next spring (the house sale that is, not the wheel!)

JC

2. John, one intresting queston... Do your last setup uses ropes in system?

Eastlander

10. Let me start by saying, I KNOW THIS GUY IS USING BATTERIES AND A MOTOR !
Check out this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdSU4H9RbEQ
I think he has a very simple idea, if anyone can come up with a mechanical way to do this, they're in business.
I have thought of a way that may work.

1. He basically has a motor assisted imbalanced beam design and it will, of course, run fine...until the battery pack he uses as a counter weight is drained of its energy. The problem with his design is that the swinging weight's arm, although it pauses for about a half of a beam rotation, must keep rotating counter clockwise. He has probably already tried to make it work without the assisting motor powering the swinging weight arm and found it would not run. That motor provides the little extra energy needed to lift the swinging weight a bit earlier so that the center of mass of the beam is just a little over to the descending side and that keeps the device running. Without the motor, he needs to find some extra energy to power the swinging weight. If the weight was iron, then, maybe he could locate a powerful permanent magnet up near the top descending side of the beam that would help assist the swing of the weight just a enough so that the motor will not be necessary. Of course, then he will have the problem of the magnet slowing the descent velocity of the swinging weight end of the beam.

I've seen many designs similar to this in the past only they used sliding weights that moved along the length of the beam in order to create the imbalance. Most of them used electrically powered solenoids to assist the sliding motion of the weight and move it out a bit farther toward the end of the beam when the weight was on the descending side. At the bottom of their beam's swing, a spring would then help push the sliding weight up along the beam and closer to its axle. Again, they're nothing but exotic electric motors.

2. K.B. you just provided me with an opening for scratching of this little itch I've had for quite a long while, now . . .

"Again, they're nothing but exotic electric motors." - K.B. = Pseudo Perpetual Motion(s)

What Bessler created = Quasi Perpetual Motion

What cannot be created absolutely because 'perpetual' is not ever in fact attainable (except, obviously, by means of Divine Ordination) = Perpetual Motion

This REALLY SHOULD end the silly argumentation that goes on about definitions/conditions for what does (or, would or should) constitute a perpetual motion, the reason being because such CANNOT EVEN EXIST.

Any rejoinders???

- James -

3. If one's definition of perpetual motion is other than just constant motion; that is, if it's a forever running device that also constantly outputs energy, then, obviously, such a pm is impossible. This is because energy can not be created and any closed device of finite size will only contain a certain amount of energy. If it is tapped long enough, then, logically, one would expect it to eventually run out its supply of energy and the device must stop.

However, it's entirely possible that a device could be constructed which would be able to continuously tap the energy associated with the mass of its various components and could do so without requiring any sort of nuclear reactions. This is, I believe, what Bessler's wheels were doing. Their outputting of energy was small and they, literally, had enough energy in their lead weights to power a wheel for tens of millions to even billions of years if running freely and, of course, if they were routinely serviced to replace worn out parts. For most people, such a wheel would certainly be operational long enough to be called a perpetual motion machine although, in the absolute sense of the term, it was really not.

If one could somehow build a friction free version of one of Bessler's wheels made out of corrosion proof materials and place it into a sealed cave for a billion years, one would make an interesting discovery at the end of that duration test. Of course, to do it, he would need a time machine that he could use to travel forward in time to stop and inspect the wheel one billion years later. At that time, if he removed one of its four pound weights, he would notice that it was as light as a feather. Indeed, it might be so light that it would actually begin to float in the air. That loss of mass occurred as energy was extracted from the weights over the millennia to keep the drum and axle turning as they pushed their way through the drag of the surrounding air in the cave. Other than this dramatic loss of density, all of the other physical properties of the lead in the weights would remain unchanged.

4. I agree with most of your post Ken, but I simply cannot accept your theory that Bessler's wheel derived its energy from minute losses of mass from its weights. I am not arguing that such things don't happen, just that the energy output in Bessler's wheel simply cannot be explained by your theory.

My own hypothesis ( and it cannot be more than that until I prove it) is that gravity supplies the energy indirectly by making the weights fall. The energy comes from the external force of gravity and it offers continuous motion until either the parts wear out or the thing is stopped deliberately or by a break down.

Yes its not perpetual, just continuous in the same way that an auto engine is continuous until it runs out of gas, or the parts wear out or there is a break down, or its stopped deliberately.

5. John, you seem to view Bessler's wheels as "open" systems whereas I view them as "closed" systems. Even if I were to accept your theory of operation, there is still the problem of where the energy is coming from that Bessler's wheels outputted. Let's say, for the sake of analysis, that you are right and that the Earth's gravity field supplied that energy. Since gravity fields are only regions of space, they have no mass or energy of their own. Those must be supplied by their source which, if you are right, would be the mass of the Earth itself. So, as a Bessler wheel turned in that cave, it would be the Earth losing mass constantly instead of the wheel. Obviously, there is a tremendously larger amount of energy in the mass of our planet than in the lead weights inside of one of Bessler's wheels and it might then continue to operate until the end of our universe!

Update. Well, I've been testing my latest wm2d model and had to quit the test early because of something else requiring my attention. The good news is that the 3 ft diameter model wheel seems so far to be accelerating slowly by steadily over the approximate 2.5 seconds of the acceleration from a "dead stop" and has completed about 10 degrees of its 45 degree test rotation. Those 2.5 seconds of motion took the program almost 5 minutes to calculate for some reason. I'll finish up tomorrow. This is either "it" or, most likely, another keel waiting to happen.

6. "If one's definition of perpetual motion is other than just constant motion; that is, if it's a forever running device that also constantly outputs energy, then, obviously, such a pm is impossible. . . ."

Well, K.B., as usual 'excellent' however the matter as I put it is one definition free.

The two words are clear as to their meanings as separately, and vary not at all when made as severally.

Any configuration other than ordained into Reality by Will of the Divine MUST BE a "Quasi-Perpetual Motion," so I assert in all humility, it being and acting JUST LIKE one for some time, but actually not because not of the Infinite.

Now, I don't think any would take-up argumentation with me as regards that third: Pseudo-Perpetual Motion, which those of hidden power-sourced bits of clever trickery certainly are.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Yes its not perpetual, . . ." THANK YOU, John.

7. Definitely Bessler's wheel was an open system, Ken. However assuming you're right, in my opinion yours is the only way a closed system could possibly be workable and the energy available would be infinitessable. I don't see how there would be even enough energy available to just turn any kind of wheel more or less instantly. I could imagine that locked in a cave the wheel might manage one turn in a thousand years. No offence intended Ken, just my opinion.

I suspect although I don't know, that my belief is probably more widely shared than yours is, although if there are some who follow your own idea, perhaps they could comment here?

JC

8. Thanks for the invitation to weigh-in here John but, although tempted to most severely, I would not touch this one with a twenty foot pole, discretion being what it is and forever must be but, perhaps some others even though?

- James -

9. Well,
at the risk of proving Confucius right, there's one thing that puzzles me.
If Ken's idea of the weights transferring mass in a closed system is right, why has he carried out 1,500 + simulations that include, lever arm configurations and shapes, cord attachment positions, falling weights etc. ?

10. John wrote:

" However assuming you're right, in my opinion yours is the only way a closed system could possibly be workable and the energy available would be infinitessable."

Well, just consider this. Einstein popularized the equation E = mc^2 which showed just how much energy is contained in a mass of matter. A four lb weight has a mass of 1814.369 grams. The speed of light is 2.998 x 10^10 cm per second and c^2 is then 8.988 x 10^20 cm^2 x sec^-2. When we multiply the mass of the four lb lead weight in grams times the speed of light squared, we get 26.95 x 10^20 gm x cm^2 x sec^-2 which converts to 2.695 x 10^21 ergs which is equal to 2.965 x 10^14 joules which equals 74.86 million kilowatt hours. So, as you can see the energy contained in only one of the four pounds weights was enormous...enough to provide 74.86 million homes with a kilowatt or 1,000 watts of power for an hour. And, let's not forget that I estimate that the Merseberg wheel contained 256 lbs of lead! That works out to a total energy content of the weights equal to 19.16 billion kilowatt hours which is probably enough energy to supply all of the current buildings on Earth with 1 kilowatt or 1,000 watts for an hour!!!

So, with the Merseberg wheel only able to output a few tens of watts, I have no problem imagining it running for hundreds of millions to billions of years (assuming, of course, that it was made from materials that would require no maintenance to compensate for normal wear).

11. Hi Ken, you and john are both semi right, your right about the energy in the weights, but the weights get pulled down by gravity so John is right about being an open system

1. The weights in Bessler's wheels did not need gravity for a wheel of operate. Any force would do. If one placed one of his wheels aboard a '50's sci-fi film rotating wheel type space station, the wheel would also work although no real gravity field was present. One does not even need a space station. One could simply mount a wheel at the end of a long beam that had a counter weight at the other end and then give the beam a spin as it floated in outer space that made it rotate about its center of mass. The wheel would still work. It's energy came solely from its lead weights and nowhere else.

2. Ken, staying on planet earth you said you don't need gravity, any force will do, so the weights move all on there own? Other than gravity what makes them move.

3. Obviously, on Earth with lead weights, gravity is supplying the force to the weights. But, one could even eliminate all of the weights and then just attach stretched springs to the ends of the levers to simulate gravity and the wheel would still turn. Gravity only provides a force on the weights, but the energy must come from the weights themselves when gravity is used. If springs are used, then the energy will come from the springs and they would slowly lose mass as the wheel turned and continued to output energy.

12. @ Ken

quote:
Note that he does not say that there is any direct mechanical connection between the
weights in each "pair". I think he's just telling the reader here that the wheel is
continuously imbalanced and that is how it develops a torque and accelerates. In other
words, weights on the ascending side swing in toward the axle while those on the descending
side move out closer to the drum's outer rim.

you are absolutely right. I think we agree mostly in that the wheel is turning from
a constant imbalance.
This is one thing. In the riddle: "The rain is flowing".

In the other half you have to move the weights upward. And this move needs some
working input.
And I think we agree, that we need to make a falling weight lift more than itself.
Do not think about levers - force x height is always the same.

I'm convinced that the interpretation of the quarter is an arc. So the movement of the
weights goes in arcs. One weight falling down one quarter moves four time this weight
upwards four quarters --> This is what we need!

There are a few permutations of distributing four pounds to four quarters.
a) 1 pound x 1 quarter / x4
b) 2 pound x 2 quarter / x2
c) 4 pound x 4 quarter / x1

Although I favour c) I'm not reluctant to think about b).
Let me explain:
Bessler always described the movement as throw, fling, sling.
The only time when he said lift - it is in conjunction with the sound.
If he had written together throw and sound - I think it is too obvious.

Then there is one more important hint of Bessler.
The riddle starting with:
"Der Geiz ist eine Wurzel bös"
Greed is an evil root (or a root of evil).
Greed is some form of human behaviour. What has this to do with the mechanism of the PM?

In fact, a "greedy" machine is e.g. a lever. It does never spend something or give in.
It's a closed system. Left side and right side. No chance for the influx of additional
environmental energy.

A pendulum on the other hand is an open system. It is generous. It gives freely its
potential energy - and gets inertial energy. And vice versa. There is a constant
exchange of energy. In the riddle: "The snow is falling".

Bearing this fact in mind, the number of permutations for flinging something up
over an arc is rather limited.

a): Its hard to let go and push up over just one quarter. Either the falling part is
tiny or the gain of height is tiny.
b): Thats better. 180° may work well. There is room for interaction.
And c) I already explained.

Primarily I am sure the lifting of the weights is done by increasing their velocity,
Ekin = 1/2mv^2.
Double the speed and it will fly upward 4 times it fell.

To get back to the initial discussion about the weights acting in pairs:
Yes - it is possible, that there a 2 similar mechanisms in the wheel.
The weights could be connected - or not. Some speaks for a connection.

In the riddle Bessler writes from "Schniebekeulchen". I would translate that with
dumbbell. - 2 weights connected with a rod.
And yes - this may be a solution. You can swing every weight of these two over 180°
on a spiral path - one from the bottom to the center and one from the center to the top.

@ John
quote:
Definitely Bessler's wheel was an open system, Ken.

... I fully agree with you, John.

Thats all for now... lets glue the clues ;)
5park

1. 5park writes:

"In the other half you have to move the weights upward. And this move needs some
working input.
And I think we agree, that we need to make a falling weight lift more than itself.
Do not think about levers - force x height is always the same."

Actually, on a wheel's descending side the weights drop down toward their wooden stops on the rim of the drum and also move outward away from the axle a small distance. The weights were rather gently lowered onto their stops on the descending side and it was that action which accounts for the thumping sounds issuing from that side of the wheel.

No, I do not agree that "we need to make a falling weight lift more than itself." That was not what was happening in Bessler's wheels. The ascending side weights that were lifted were being lifted by a combination of several other weights falling and several springs contracting. To achieve this required various sets of coordinating ropes that were arranged in a specific way within a wheel's drum.

13. the principle or consequence pm wheel, is given by F = ma or E = mc2 with constant revolution and internal force, transmitted to the rotation axis, here I do not write the main formula of its operation for its ease of understanding and realization, not violate any current physical.
Antonino
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYGZThknuqg

1. I've seen your video before Antonio. Impressive but it doesn't prove anything does it? Are you claiming that it runs off gravity? I like the bit where you stopped the wheel and started it off in the other direction but I wish you had stopped it and let it stand for a few seconds to see where it balanced before restarting it. Nice work though.

JC

2. two forces are the consequence, due to the centrifugal and centripetal and gravitational.

3. I've also seen this video before and recall leaving a comment about it then on youtube. Now it looks like the comments section is gone. Why?

Frankly, I'm suspicious that the wheel is a hoax. About a minute after the video starts, it looks like it is slowing down a bit and he then moves in for a closeup of the clear section near the axle. Around 1:20 we can not see the top of the wheel and he could have given it a push to keep it going. Around 4:15 he conveniently stops the wheel and gives it a push to start it rotating in the opposite direction. Around 5:50 there's another closeup where we do not see the top of the wheel and that is a perfect time to give it another hand push. The wheel obviously has a high moment of inertia and a push can keep it turning for several minutes. To be convincing, I'd have to see this wheel videoed from a distance so I could see a complete side view of it showing both ends of its axle as it turned. Also, he should put a large clock with a second hand into the picture so we can make sure that he has not just taken a short run of the wheel of a minute or so and then looped it over and over again to create the illusion that it is running continuously.

Sorry to be so suspicious, but the reality is that youtube is awash in fake perpetual motion machine videos and, so far, I have not seen anything in this video that convinces me that it is not just another one of them.

4. Thanks for comments, mine is not a challenge to those seeking PM, there is no reason to bleff. The result of a long process it is true, I think Bessler True. The collaboration of researchers to help the final success. Antonino.

14. Perpetual motion is just as it implies, motion forever. If we could just eliminate friction, most of our wheels would be perpetual, but sadly we cannot. We need an additional component - overunity force or energy. With just a tiny bit of overunity, we can overcome friction and our wheels will run forever. Add more and we now have the ability to do work. I think when Bessler speaks of perpetual motion, I believe he is referring to just that, and his designs like MT9, MT11, MT13, and MT15 are perfect examples of that. But the missing something, the prime mover, is the overunity factor. Overbalance is required for wheel rotation. It's what starts rotation and what keeps it turning. Adding overunity (just a few drops!) overcomes friction, and if enough is added, allows for the ability to do work, such as lifting a box of rocks.

1. The electrons in atoms orbit their nuclei perpetually and can only do this because there is no friction affecting them and when an atom's electrons are in their lowest orbits within an atom, then can do no work and thus lose no additional energy and the mass associated with it.

Bessler's wheels contained a very carefully balanced arrangement of weights and levers that automatically kept the center of mass of these slightly onto a wheel's descending side. That unusual asymmetry created a condition that allowed a wheel to continuously rotate and output the energy and mass of its weights to surrounding machinery attached to a wheel's axle.

2. Ken, So no gravity needed

3. Correct. But, since we have plenty of natural gravity available at the Earth's surface and it's easier to obtain than the electromagnetic forces or even spring tension, no sense not using it even though it is the weakest of the four fundamental forces. Also, we must remember that Bessler probably read a lot about the attempts of others to build imbalanced pm wheels and they were, almost universally, using weights. It would only be natural for him to do so as well (even though in MT 17, 18, and 60 he hints that he was also experimenting with spring enhanced weight driven wheels).

### The True Story of Bessler’s Perpetual Motion Machine - Update

At the end of March we sold our house and moved in with my daughter, son-in-law and granddaughter, expecting to be there for no more than tw...