Sunday, 15 March 2020

Johann Bessler’s GRAVITY Wheel.

There are still a lot of people who accept the view that gravity could not be the sole provider of energy to Bessler’s wheel so here’s what I believe.  First, I am satisfied that Bessler’s wheel was genuine.

Sometimes it is helpful to look again at the evidence.  I am fully aware that his wheel could not have been a perpetual motion machine because they are impossible. However this presumption is dependant on there being no requirement for an external energy source.  I used the word ‘presumption’ because that is how it was suggested perpetual motion machines were supposed to work; no external energy source.  This is also known as a closed system’.

It doesn’t take genius to see that this is impossible, no energy in = no energy out, therefore  no work done.  If we accept that Bessler’s wheel worked then we should consider what sources of energy were available, and to help us we can see what the inventor said about it.  He told us that the weights themselves provided the perpetual motion.  This can only mean that his machine benefited from the presence of gravity.

Of course we’ve all been taught that gravity is not and cannot be a source of energy. But when I read that I always think to myself, but not saying it out loud, yes not directly, but water wheels and hydroelectric stations benefit from streams of water falling from higher ground to lower ground to drive electricity generators, for example. They benefit from the presence of gravity.  Bessler’s wheel benefited from the presence of gravity too.

It’s also a well-known fact that historically, virtually every would-be inventor of a pm machine ignored the suggestion that gravity could not be an energy source - that you can’t just tap into gravity and use its energy.   Not just uneducated people, but highly respected men such as Leonardo da Vinci, Robert Boyle and the famous Indian mathematician, Bhaskara II, all designed mechanisms which they believed might work, even Sir Isaac Newton left a perpetual motion sketch.  They weren’t put off by the idea that gravity could not be used, maybe it was never considered.

All forms of energy relate to motion, so when something is in motion it has kinetic energy, or sometimes it can have potential energy, or stored energy.  Energy is often defined as the capacity to do work. Gravitational energy can do work, it’s routinely measured to assess the amount of work it has done in a particular instance, so the only reason that I can see why it is taught that gravity cannot be a source of energy is because no one has ever devised a mechanical method which allows weights to fall and continuously be raised again while rotating a wheel, apart from Bessler.  It has been extensively and relentlessly argued that it is impossible, but Bessler’s evidence suggests that this is incorrect.

We can extract energy from windmills, but only if the air is moving.  No wind, then no energy.  Waterwheels remain stationary in still water,  You cannot extract energy from gravity if gravity is not moving anything, but you can if gravity moves something and makes it fall.

So you cannot tap gravity as source of energy directly, but you can if you have a medium in between gravity and the wheel, and in Bessler’s wheel it must be the weights.  Gravity makes the weights fall, causing the wheel to turn. A mechanism which can allow itself to fall, under the influence of gravity, and still manage to reset the fallen weights must be possible, and it must be Bessler’s solution, because the solution requires it to be so.

I’ve been writing the same argument for at least ten years, see my other web sites, and still few get it or accept it and yet it is pure logic.  Bessler got it and so can we.

JC


202 comments:

  1. John, you keep conveniently ignoring the fact that one of Bessler's wheels should be able to work in a spinning centrifuge out in deep space where there is no natural gravity present.

    It was not the Earth's gravity that was supplying the energy that Bessler's wheels were producing, it was the mass in their weights and levers. As that energy was taken from them, their masses should then slowly decrease over the many millennia if a wheel could be allowed to continuously run without breaking down. If its weights and levers were missing or present but massless, then one of his wheels would just sit there motionless no matter how strong was the gravity field it was located in.

    Yes, gravity can certainly help a wheel release the energy stored in its weights and levers, but it is not the source of that energy and there could be other ways to help a wheel release that stored energy stored that don't require the use of a planet's gravity.

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    1. This sounds like Ken’s idea again. It doesn’t go near to explaining the acceleration and speed of any of Bessler’s wheels. It is absurd, to put it politely.

      JC

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    2. Can you give a reference to that fact? And which one of the wheels do you mean?

      It is practically impossible. You don't seem to understand the coriolis effect. If it wasn't for this effect we probably already had rotating space stations.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3D7QlMVa5s

      Besides, gravity is provided by the Universe not by the planet. The planet(mass, size) is nothing more than a parameter in the equation for the gravitational acceleration which drive the wheels.

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    3. John Collins, I completely agree with you. The only thing; may I suggest, try not to refer to gravity as energy. Gravity is a force. It's the force of gravity times a weight that gets you to kinetic energy. Do you see what I mean? You need the two to gether--------------I know I'm splitting hairs.

      The only reason they say perpetual motion is impossible, is because they don't know how to do it. What scientist is willing to admit that he is ignorant?? Sam

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    4. Hehry L That's pretty basic. Centrifugal force replaces gravitational forces. But why stop at 1G? Why not go to a 1000Gs? Also, there must be a better way to take the power off than by using microwaves------------------Sam

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    5. Henry L, why are you always defending the BS of Ken B? Ken claims…, Ken says…, According to Ken….

      You are Ken but are too small to admit it. You are pathetic. Do you really think you can fool the regular visitors of this blog? If so then your intelligence must be negligible small. Why don’t you crawl back in your hole in the ground where all the other lower lifeforms exist. You could be king there. On this blog you are nothing more than an annoying bloodsucking flea. Do you really expect that sometime in the future you will be accepted or respected? No. If you had any reputation or credit then there is now nothing left of it. You are making it worse with each message you post. Maybe I should start writing reviews on the net of your book under different accounts in which I will make it clear that you are a complete lunatic not worth reading a single word.

      By the way, the first anonymous post is also you and I expect that you wonder how I know but it is not that difficult. You are just not smart enough to comprehend that. Honour John’s request and stay away. If it wasn’t for him you wouldn’t even have been able to write your book you dickhead.

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    6. "I like many others here am also looking forward to seeing the design John claims his clues have described"

      I'm sure it will be worth the wait!

      Delete
  2. You are one hundred percent right John. Gravity is the sole source of energy. A debate about that would be futile. Any alternatives would be merely speculation and unreal. The energy a BW produces is defined by its mass, size and the gravitational acceleration.

    Those who cannot grasp that will sadly not be able to contribute to a solution. We should ignore them and not try to persuade them to believe it. They need to see to believe and will demand physical prove. As long as we can't, they won't budge.

    You say that energy is related to motion. I would like to rephrase that. Motion is the simplest form of energy that exists. Absolute motion does not exist and all motion is relative. Therefore absolute energy does not exist and all energy is relative(potential difference). Within the wheel (drum) there is another wheel (the rotating disc). This inner wheel is swinging within the rotating drum. So relatively to this drum this inner wheel is constantly producing energy(motion). That is why he calls the inner wheel the principal part of his machine.

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  3. Marinus, Amsterdam? You are a long ways from home, my home that is. Your old windmills are amazing machines!! I saw one in England, Bertrand's Mill, I think it was. Sam

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    1. We have a lot of windmills here in the Netherlands. Old and brand new electric ones. They are quite common, but it’s a gravitymill that we are lacking.

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    2. Marinus, Maybe we can change that, Sam

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  4. John,
    Have you searched through Revelation in the New Testament to try and find the reference that Wagner mentioned in his critique? If so... what did you find?

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    1. No, I haven’t, but I haven’t bothered much lately with Wagner’s critiques., I’m too old and lazy!

      JC

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    2. Is there any other reference to this? This comes to mind:"It's well known that countless people throughout all ages have
      sought the secret of perpetual motion, but no-one (apart from
      myself!) has ever found it. What were they seeking? All the wise
      ones were looking for the same principle ( of "excess weight") that
      I have described, and they sought it in things that were already
      familiar to them. They sought to bring a wheel into a state of
      motion, such that, without the need for winding, its innate virtue
      would keep it revolving as long as its materials might last."
      Seems to me Bessler is telling us that he found the machine in a familiar place (to him the Bible) and this:"Do you see? These foolish ravings of my enemies will be held up
      to total ridicule by all intelligent people, who, with true
      understanding, have sought the Mobile in a place no different
      from that in which I eventually found it. Let the envious soul first
      describe to us what he thinks a true Mobile should be, what sort
      of device one should give that name to, and what he would be
      prepared to give for one - or let him actually produce one - and
      then we can judge the matter. In the meantime my machine will
      be called the PRIMUM, and it will also be called Perpetuum. The
      enemy in his madness can call it what he likes - my machine is
      the selfsame device that my enemies were unable to achieve." Seems to me there is something here.

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    3. "These foolish ravings of my enemies will be held up to total ridicule by all intelligent people, who, with true understanding, have sought the Mobile in a place no different from that in which I eventually found it."

      He found it in the "Mechanical Universe", nature (some religious people like Bessler like to refer to God). It can exist despite everyone rejecting it but only under very strict circumstances (the laws of perpetual motion). That's why it's so hard to find. You have to find the right needle in a very big stack of needles.

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    4. cwforshort quoted Bessler: "In the meantime my machine will
      be called the PRIMUM, and it will also be called Perpetuum."

      Since his one direction wheels, by self-starting, did not require a push to start them and did not require external energy to keep running, they were actually an effect without a cause. There could only be one thing like that in the universe which was referred to as the "primum" or "prime mover".

      To a Christian like Bessler the primum was something that God brought into existence after creating the matter of the universe to get everything moving. It was God's way of winding up the clockwork of the cosmos so it could start running and that could only be done by an eternal divine being with supernatural abilities. Then, along comes Bessler's wheels built by a mere mortal human that appear to have some of that primum in them! Is it any wonder why he thought the secret of the perpetual mobile had been given only to him by God Himself?

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    5. No, it is not. It is very understandable. Thanks for posting this perceptive comment.

      From the poem: “Greed is an evil root.”

      It must have been a burden not be able to shout it out.

      Delete
  5. So if I can get my non-existent gravity wheel to work, because it’s not put together yet, will I be able to afford a house in Hawaii? Preferably a beachfront house.

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    1. I don't know. That will be the next challenge. How do you sell it. Perhaps you can buy your own island.

      Delete
  6. A bessler wheel in a spinning centrifuge in space is powered by the artificial gravity...

    Energy is energy...

    Whether it is derived from natural or artificial gravity...

    But stating that the mass of the weights in a BW is gradually being converted into energy to power the BW is hard to imagine...

    This can happen only in Ken's fantasy world...

    Or in his followers' dream... for that matter...

    Because there is no nuclear fusion or any such chemical action taking place inside a BW...

    Blowing wind is the force behind a windmill...

    Running or falling water keeps the waterwheel or the water-turbine running...

    Falling weights keep the BW rotating...

    Gravity is the source in both these cases...

    But the million dollar question is how does this happen?...

    Firstly, the weights attached to the levers swing...

    Then when these weights reach the bottom point due to gravity what further happens is the mystery...

    What makes these weights go up on the ascending side?... how does the resetting happen?...

    Well, the falling weights on the descending side partly assist the lifting process on the ascending side...

    Is it enough to lift and trip the next cycle?...

    No...

    This is where the bessler magic occurs...

    An ingenuous method created by bessler make the weights go up effortlessly and perpetuate the cycle...

    How does this happen?...

    This is the billion dollar question?...

    A harmonious fusion of the effects of gravity, inertia, Angular velocity, CF and CP forces come into play...

    This ensures that the BW runs non-stop...

    Surprisingly here gravity too joins in enabling the lifting process also...

    Such is the beauty of the design...

    Can we attribute the energy source of BW to gravity here entirely...

    Again it is a big NO...

    But without gravity or an external equivalent force you cannot expect a bessler wheel to flourish...

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    1. yes, some people think CF and gravity are the same. not true. big dfference. that example with the two flipping wheels proves gravity did not supply their energy. it had to come from somewhere else.

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  7. I have been writing so many comments here since 2010... How can you say you don't know me... Even JC sir won't say such a thing perpetualman...

    It only shows you are very ignorant... you are not looking into every comment of this blog since beginning...I have learnt many things from many people commenting on this blog...In bessler research every Clue or comment is important...I was not born with bessler secret...I also learn from you guys many new things...I was really very dumb in my school days... anyway, I would like to know how you rate me... kindly, give your opinion...

    I agree you May not have really made fun of me but others like marinus and Ken have taken advantage of it very much and you didn't object...if you find someone unnecessarily trying to malign someone else here why do you keep mum?...and, this is what I don't actually
    understand about you...if tomorrow someone tries to finger you do you think I will keep quiet?... never...

    For example, recently when JC sir was annoyed with Ken did you see how I pleaded with JC sir not to be harsh with Ken for his mistake?...

    Bessler Wheel research initially looks very simple but later it turns out different...do you know why so?...

    I found that only Andre sir understood me very well...you can refer the blog posts of 2010...I don't know what happened to him...JC sir should tell us what happened to him...

    How close are you at solving this bessler mystery...

    If at any stage you run into a bottleneck please don't hesitate to approach me...

    You will find me entirely different from Marinus/Ken...I mean I won't disappoint you dear...

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  8. he never said that it was a gravity wheel tho... that's our assumption.

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    1. He was never very clear about the working.

      From das Triumphirende;

      "As long as it remains outside the center of gravity, this upper weight incessantly exercises universal motion from which the essential constituent parts of the machine receive power and push."

      "Special trials have demonstrated for eyewitnesses that this mechanical wheel is a self-rotating system of several heavy bodies and will be as long as the bodies remain heavy and the universe exists."

      But you might conclude that he hints to it.

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    2. that conclusion is obviously false. gravity wheels have been analyzed to death for hundreds of years.

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    3. Ok, I'm fine with that. Carry on Yellow.

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    4. FWIW : IIRC the word 'gravity' is a relatively modern word common today in our vernacular. It didn't exist in the lexicon or vernacular of B's. time. So you wouldn't expect him write that it was a 'gravity wheel', as we say today.

      If you read a more full context (additional to that provided by Marinus "remains outside the center of gravity") it is very clear that it is indeed a gravity wheel that B. refers to.

      DT p191 .. NO, these weights are themselves the PM device, the ‘essential constituent parts’ which must of necessity continue to exercise their motive force (derived from the PM principle) indefinitely –

      - so long as they keep away from the centre of gravity.

      To this end they are enclosed in a structure or framework, and coordinated in such a way that not only are they prevented from attaining their desired equilibrium or ‘point of rest’, but they must for ever seek it, thereby developing an impressive velocity which is proportional to their mass and to the dimensions of their housing.

      Takeaways ..

      1. Motive Force derived from the PM Principle/Law.
      2. So long as they keep away from the centre of gravity.
      3. (Weights) prevented from attaining their desired equilibrium or ‘point of rest’, but they must for ever seek it.

      Here's the Latin from DT p27 ..

      (quoad nimirum extra centrum gravium remanet) translates as (namely outside the center of gravity remains)

      Here's the Old German from DT p27 .. (as best I can read it)

      (so lange sie nemlich ausser dem centro gravium bleiben) translates as (as long as they stay outside of the center of gravity).

      Additionally there is Karl's Attestation DT p194 : "is a revolving wheel, which is able to run, by means of its own innate momentum."

      Quite simply .. the wheel is an always Out Of Balance Wheel aka a Gravity Wheel.

      Tho there was no way in Old German or Universal Latin to simply say Gravity Wheel. IMO.

      -fletcher

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    5. "NO, these weights are themselves the PM device, the ‘essential constituent parts’ which must of necessity continue to exercise their motive force (derived from the PM principle) indefinitely so long as they keep away from the center of gravity."

      This translation could have been much better.

      Bessler acknowledges that the weights are critical to making his wheels run. That makes sense if they were not hoaxed which they weren't. But then we read that their "motive force" or torque is indefinite or constant because they "keep away from the center of gravity"??? That translation makes no sense.

      If they were located at the ends of levers near the outer rim of wheel's drum then all of a wheel's weights were "kept away" from the wheel's center of gravity which was close to the center of its axle. It should have been more accurately translated as "the torque of the wheel is due to the center of mass of the weights staying away from the center of rotation of a wheel which was located at the center of its axle."

      Small mistranslations or poor translations of lines from the Bessler literature have been sending Bessler pm wheel researchers in wrong directions for over three hundred years now and will continue to do so without better translations. I don't blame John for that because he didn't personally translate them. They were probably the best available at the time but subtly influenced by the translator's preconceived notion of how Bessler's wheels worked.

      One must also keep in mind that any of the written clues we have were intended by Bessler to be as general as possible and virtually useless for understanding the internal details of his wheels even if one has perfect translations of them which we don't have yet. Without those internal details we can only progress so far and then no more. When those details become available, then the debate will end and the effective building will finally begin.

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    6. I am so happy to be infected/blessed with KDS (Ken Detecting System).

      Ken, what a load off rubbish. You are completely disconnected from reality. You are making a complete fool of yourself in front of the whole community and you don’t seem to care. I wonder if you are aware of that or if you are hopelessly trying to sell your worthless book. You must be really believing this shit. At least you have to pretend, for the sake of sales. Man you are stupid. You must be really lonely. Go play with your imaginary friends or try to meet some anon’s.

      @John Collins

      Please send me a copy of his book so I can make it freely available on as much sites as possible.

      @Flectcher

      3. (Weights) prevented from attaining their desired equilibrium or ‘point of rest’, but they must for ever seek it.

      That sounds like trying to balance an upside down pendulum.

      What do you think? Maybe you can sim something up. ;)

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    7. "keep away from the center of Gravity" This might make sense if he was referring to pendulums. Meaning they should swing out from there center position, or center of Gravity,(MAYBE). Just trying to put my 'spin' on things------------Sam

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    8. @anon04:43

      No doubt the translations we have are flawed. I do agree with your interpretation of that line that never made sense to me either. It only makes sense if you replace 'center of gravity' with 'center of rotation'.

      Delete
  9. Yellow, Bessler used the word heavy or heaviness, right? Gravity is just a Latin word that means heavy. I don't think it's that big of a reach-----------------Sam

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    1. The Law of Gravity fought Bessler's Law of Perpetual Motion. Guess who won?

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    2. What's the law of perpetual motion? I thought Gravity enabled his wheel(s)-----------Sam

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    3. Bessler talked about different principles ( mechanics ) in his wheels. He also talked about his PM Principle, also called his Law of PM. The PM Law dictates the conditions for all the different mechanical principles to be viable gravity wheels. Like Newton's 3 Laws set out his conditions.

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    4. "Bessler talked about different principles..."

      He mainly meant the difference between his one direction and two direction wheels. The two direction ones were more complicated mechanically and needed a lot of adjustment to be able to run properly.

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    5. Yes, although I have a slightly different view on it.

      His Law of Perpetual Motion is nothing more than a set of design rules to geometrically positions some weights and levers enclosed in cases.

      If you know those rules, you will be able to build a wheel in which all the forces are cancelled out, and added, at exactly the right place, and at precisely the right moment, so that the torque will be at maximum.

      The fight is not over yet, we are still fighting.

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  10. Bessler's law of PM, indeed...

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  11. Plz describe Besslers' Law of PM Suresh??

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  12. If you can just manage to ensure that the weights employed to imbalance the wheel maintain their restless quest in attaining equilibrium the wheel's motion or rotation will carry on perpetually...

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    1. I'm afraid that's not it Suresh. You are repeating what Bessler said in the preamble. I'll give you a clue. It's about HOW & WHY his weights continue to exercise their motive force indefinitely. No harder to solve than children playing among pillars with clubs lol.

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  13. I know the answer, sir... believe it or not... but I am too afraid to lose the hard earned secret without a foolproof pact between us...

    It is the smart game played by the weights inside...
    That makes it all possible...

    Smart designing of the internal components is crucial...and so is their arrangement...

    And, as long as this special set up that is designed remains in the arranged manner the wheel's continuous rotation is endured...

    The children are the weights and the pillars are the levers... the loud sound is the banging we already know...

    Hell... did I give just give away half the secret?...

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    1. SK...PLEASE don't put us through THAT again!

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  14. If someone is going to build an actual model of a gravity wheel, should they start off with a really small one or a big one? I guess it all depends on how much money you want to spend?

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    1. It seems that Bessler's first Gera prototype wheel was only 36 inches in diameter so that's a starting size you might want to consider. It's small enough to fit on a table top so you can conveniently work on it. Yet it's big enough to have enough torque to, as Bessler said, barely be able to move itself. The torque will be low but his prototype eventually increased its speed to 60 rpm's or even more.

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    2. You are absolutely right, Sir...

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    3. Perpetualman, Right now my wheel is 30 inches in diameter, which is a convenient size. Not too small, not to big. FWEIW Sam

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    4. With my router I make 60 cm (23.6 inches) max. in diameter. Once I extended it to 30 inches but I prefer the smaller. I design on max. 60 cm.

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  15. The accuracy increases the smaller it goes...

    The bigger it is the mistake allowance increases...

    It is better to start with minimum at least three feet or more...

    If you go for much smaller sizes then you need to be also very minute in detail...

    The bigger the diameter the little differences in the internal component designing doesn't affect the imbalancing Technic...

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  16. Don't get me wrong, I beleive Bessler's genuinety and sincerity and the wheel must be some unknown machine we haven't designed since then; but obviosuly that was not a perpetual gravity wheel.

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    1. Yellow, It's hard enough to accomplish it by using Gravity; why consider something that would be even more difficult?? Isn't gravity challenging enough? Sam

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  17. Bessler is supposed to have used heavy lead weights... weights act when under the influence of gravity...or when pressure/force is applied on them...

    The word heaviness has been used by bessler...

    Springs were not used for creating the main motive force...

    No magnets/batteries either...no any other fraudulent means is suspected...

    Falling weights and banging sounds were realized by observers...

    All this go to indicate the BW dependençe on gravity...

    At the time period BW was being promoted Newton was popularising the gravity concept...

    This could have influenced bessler...

    The very mention of the weights being the important components in the BW also suggests gravity involvement...

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    1. Anon 13:15 you are 100% right about the need to keep raising the center of gravity of the wheel's weights as the turning wheel tries to lower it and that takes constant energy from the wheel mechs. Sounds so simple but finding the mechs to do it certainly is not as I learned the hard way over many years.

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  18. Follow up; If you aren't Ken, can't you think for your self? Maybe give us some 'knew' insight, what ever that might be--------------Sam

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    1. So you recognize him too, with his cowardly disguised comments where he describes in great detail the greatest nonsense in a ridiculous way, which shows that he has completely understood nothing about the world in which we live. He probably has no followers who adore him anymore and is all alone. And that's why he's here. Then he can post messages to us, to himself and his imaginary friends. But , they did helped him nicely to get John Collins to review his book. That would not have been possible if he wasn’t here. He is a complete Waco, probably drunk behind his computer if he is not asleep.

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    2. Marinus, One good thing; he has told us so much about the book, we don't have to buy one!! You have to look at the good side of it--------------Sam

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    3. REFF. Time 21:38 I've probably said too much about Ken and the design of his wheel, all ready. But, sense you keep bringing it up, I'll try to pass along my thoughts concerning it. I've become exceeding leery of clues, just to start with. Far better to rely on your own inventive strength, then to depend entirely on clues, hidden or other wise. O.K; let's talk about Ken's wheel. I don't like all of the strings, and so meany little levers. But suppose for instance, those problems could be over come. Also, C.F could be an issue, but I'm not sure about that. The basic, or fundamental problem, I see, with Ken's wheel, and please forgive me for saying so, is, trying to shift the weights around the circumference of the wheel. I'm sorry but, I don't think that will ever work. But; don't take my word for; try it, O.K.? What else can I say--------

      I guess it's some thing you have to make up your own mind about, I for one don't like it. Sam

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    4. Sam wrote "The basic, or fundamental problem, I see, with Ken's wheel, and please forgive me for saying so, is, trying to shift the weights around the circumference of the wheel."

      But during the official testing of the Merseburg wheel the witnesses reported that they saw Bessler struggling with the weights near the rim of the drum as he removed and then replaced them. Those weights had to be located there.

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  19. Well, I just checked the status of the parts I ordered, and wouldn’t you know, it’s going to be delayed for a day or two. So, I’ll just hurry up and wait. Anyway, we’ll see how things go in the coming days.

    I look forward to putting this gravity powered machine together!


    Perpetualman.

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    1. I would suggest that one should form the wheel concept in mind first then match it the clues provided by bessler and if things look overwhelmingly true and then only orderthe parts for the build...

      There is no point in building whatever comes to mind...

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  20. Suppose all the gravity force that is affecting a rotating BW suddenly vanishes what would happen?...

    Would the wheel come to a grinding halt or will it carry on its rotation due to its inertia?...

    IMO it should gradually stop rotating...

    Does this scenario help to prove the wheel's dependençe on gravity?...

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    1. If it had mass but no gravity, then it's friction would slow it to a stop. If it had gravity but no mass, then it would immediately stop from friction. If it had no mass and no gravity, then it also immediately stop from friction.

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  21. Well, if gravity suddenly vanished, we could jump as high as we wanted to....and keep on going! So, as long as the earth is here and remains forever (Ecclesiastes 1:4), then we can use the earth’s gravity to pull down on the rotating weights to keep our wheel in motion until the parts wear out and need replacing.

    Perpetualman.

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  22. Bessler Wheel totally depends on the swinging and falling weights inside it for maintaining it's perpetual spinning motion...

    And, the swinging levers that carry the heavy weights and the falling of the weights further require gravity badly to maintain their respective functioning...

    Thus we can comfortably summarize that BW cannot function without the support of gravity or any similar force...

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  23. If an astronaut in deep space wants to operate a BW successfully there to run a generator, how can he go about it?...

    IMO, he would require a thick magnetic platform on which he can errect the BW..

    Since there is no gravity there the magnetic platform would act like gravity...

    Of course, the weights would have to be made of Iron...

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  24. Sam, The current wheel you are working on, is that also 30 inches? How long are the pendulums? At what distance from the center of rotation will the pivot be?

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    1. Hi Marinus! Yes, 30 inches; it's a wheel from an old exercise bike. There are 4 pends., 6 inches long and are on a radius of 7 inches and weigh 2.5 lbs. Fortunately, evenly spaced holes were already there, so I took advantage of them. Thanks for asking.
      The **Idea**, is to push them out on the down side. Not only do you have to swing them out, they have to be held out for about one half revolution. Simple, right?? Sam

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    2. Happy St Patrick's day!!! Sam Peppiatt

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    3. Thanks. What’s that? Never mind, a just googled it. Looks great. A bit like how we celebrate the kings birthday over here. Everything turns orange and half the country is drunk. Don’t think it will be much off a party now due to corona.

      You ever had any thoughts about just three pends? It would be like the AP wheel . If you can get that to run then you might add “crossbars” to speed it up.

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    4. Marinus, Yes, good question. With 3, the pend. can be longer but fewer of then. I don't know which is best. I got off on the idea of pairs; one being closer to the center and the other farther away / even numbers, if that means any thing. I think of it as having two crossbars. It's just filled in, in between them.
      King's day----------I like the orange

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    5. What day is Kings day?

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    6. No, don’t give up on the pairs, but look at it in another way.

      This is from another translation from Das Triumphirende:

      Unlike all other automata, such as clocks or springs or other hanging weights which require winding up or whose duration depends on the chain which attaches them, on the contrary, these weights are the essential parts and constitute perpetuum mobile itself; as from them is retrieved the universal movement which they must exercise so long as they remain out of the centre of gravity; and when they come to be placed together, and so arranged one against another that they can never obtain equilibrium, or the punctum quietus which they unceasingly seek in their wondrous speedy flight, one or other of them must apply its weight vertically to the axis, which in its turn will also move.

      -/-

      The weight CAN ONLY be above or under the axis. They work in pairs, one or the other. Above the axis it’s probably closer to centre then when it’s underneath. The wheel is the lever, or the PRIMUM, as Bessler called it.

      April 27th.

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    7. For three pendulums that is.

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  25. Just as an aside for a while from this blog's topic of gravity, how's everyone coping with the COVID-19 pandemic? Do you think it's for real or just a big media hoax?

    We just got notices from our local bank yesterday telling us we won't be allowed in the lobby unless we make an "appointment" in advance and then only to open an account! We all have to use their drive up window whether we have a car or not!

    Lots of theories going around. First we were told it was just like another flu and would come and go in a month or so. Now we're being told it could kill one million Americans which is like double the US losses in World War 2! One lady said she thinks it's a biological weapon attack by Iran. The US government health agencies say its fatality rate is about 2%, The World Health Organization says it's 3.5%. Some virus expert said it's more like 6%. Supposedly it actually showed up in China in 2002 and slowly started to spread there but was ignored until recently when the number of cases there shot up suddenly.

    We were first told we shouldn't be in a crowd of 50 or more people and even then stay at least 6 feet from the nearest person, now it's a crowd of no more than 10. It's being recommended that anyone over 65 not leave their house unless absolutely necessary. If you are infected, you could have no symptoms for up to a month but could still infect others during that time. This virus spreads like wildfire according to the people working in hospitals and kills quickly. There's no vaccine for it and probably won't be for up to a year from now.

    Bars, churches, restaurants, sports arena, and theaters are all shutting down in one state after another. The New York Stock Exchange had a loss in the Dow of almost 3,000 points yesterday which is the worst one day loss in the history of the US stock market. People's 401k retirement plans are rapidly turning into 201k retirement plans.

    It was originally only supposed to last a month or two and our president first denounced it as a media hoax to mess up his reelection chance. Now he wants $850 billion to fight the virus. Their talking about having the army build huge 1,000 bed field hospitals all over the US to get the infected people showing up at local hospitals out of those hospitals to free up beds in them for incoming patients.

    Could it cause a recession? I heard one financial expert say this could be the final straw that breaks the camel's back of the global economic system and triggers a global depression.

    It was thought it would all be over in maybe two months. Now their talking about all this lasting as long as through this August and changing human society forever.

    I don't know what to worry about more. This or climate change!


    Anonymous and PROUD of it!

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    1. I tell you what is really going on here. This corona virus was something that escape from chinese bio weapon lab. Maybe carried out by infected worker there. Now it all over world. This could be plan by chinese to get rid as many as possible so red communists can take over world. Makes you wonder what they cooking up next of us.

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    2. I think if you use common sense you'll be ok. Avoid crowds and anyone that looks sick. Avoid touching your eyes, nose, or mouth when outside. Before getting back in your car to come home, use some hand sanitizer. Make sure your immune system is strong by taking some extra vitamin C and zinc. Even if you get it there's an 80% chance you can recover at home. If you are sick, then don't go to work and risk making everyone else sick.

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    3. Update. There's talk that the government might send every adult in the US a check for $1,000 so they can spend it and stimulate the economy to keep it from sliding into a recession.

      I'm ready to stimulate it!!! But I think we could stimulate it better with a check for $5,000!


      Anonymous and PROUD of it!

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    4. Update. Just heard one expert say he thinks COVID19 will kill up to 2 million in the US by the end of August because we're still at the very beginning of the epidemic in the US. So far it's in all 50 states and has only killed about 100. US response is still sluggish compared to what's being done in Asia and Europe. Many Americans think if they just ignore it all, it will go away. The virus doesn't care what they think.

      Over in Europe it's killed 500 in Spain and 2500 in Italy so far. France has banned all nonessential outings and the EU all nonessential travel. In the next few days the mayor of New York City could issue a "shelter in place order" which means the average person can't leave his residence or he will be fined. The virus has now been seen in about 140 countries around the world.

      The young "Millennials" in the US still aren't taking it seriously and continue to gather in bars and at parties. They think they are immune because they are young and healthy. But, there are cases of children starting to show up with the virus. New evidence shows a person could still be infectious even after he's recovered from the virus!

      More talk about a stimulus check for everyone in the US. I just hope we're all around to spend them!


      Anonymous and PROUD of it!

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    5. In our "European" union it is now every country for itself. It is beginning to look like panic.

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    6. Update. The government in the Netherlands are defending their “experiment” of group immunity because there is still no vaccine yet. They are trying to buy time. Everyone will be infected we cannot outrun it. We can only hide, hope for the best, and trying to find a cure. The European union is funding the company in Germany to find a cure.

      WW III has arrived, yet, not everyone seem to notice.

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    7. I'm wondering about all of the "Spring Breaker's" who will be flooding back into the US carrying the virus with them after weeks of drinking, drugging, and unprotected sex in various foreign countries. Then there's all of those feeble, but still independent living seniors shopping at supermarkets and hanging onto shopping cart handles loaded with the virus.

      Those with the worst symptoms of covid-19 will need to be put on ventilators giving them straight oxygen in intensive care units. Right now we only have about 62,000 of these machines in the US with maybe another 8,000 in storage. I heard one expert say we will need around 100,000 or more AND the trained technicians to operate them which we don't currently have. Hopefully, the Chinese will have about 30,000 of them that they don't need and they can sell to us. Maybe they can also send over some technicians to operate them for us and bring along plenty of the test kits they use over there to find out who's actually infected with it.

      Wonder how long it will be before all Americans will be required to learn Chinese in our schools? The Chinese have been learning English in their schools for most of the last century. Soon it will be our turn to learn their language!

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    8. Update. I just saw a report that US hospitals are so unprepared for this pandemic that they are actually being forced to tear up sheets and sew them together to make their own surgical masks to protect their nurses and doctors from being infected by incoming corona virus positive patients. What's next? Making their own ventilators?

      The governor of California just requested that 8 million in the north of that state "shelter in place" and only leave their homes if absolutely necessary and then only while strictly observing all of the precautions to prevent virus spread. Of course, if it was an order, then they would have to feed all of those people and supply them with their various medications.

      A government economic expert just said that all of the businesses closing up could raise the US unemployment rate up to 20%. That's just 5% below the peak unemployment rate of 25% during the Great Depression of the 1930's!

      The latest news from the New York Stock Exchange shows another 1300 point drop in the Dow so far today. The trading day isn't over yet!


      Anonymous and PROUD of it!

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    9. It is getting worse by the hour. Our parliament is currently debating a complete lockdown of the country. Italy, Spain and France already have. Never before did we encounter an enemy who so vastly and swiftly surprised us at such a scale.

      Delete
    10. Update. The US Senate is close to approving a $1 TRILLION dollar bail out package to rescue the US economy before it collapses any further. The "budget hawks" have been gagged into silence this time. $500 billion will be in those checks we're all getting to stimulate the economy. They will be for at least $1,000 each, but might be more. Sounds good, but most of that money will go to pay off everyone's past credit card debt and what little is actually spent will probably mostly wind up stimulating the Chinese economy. Many in the US are concerned that presidential candidate Bernie Sanders would turn us all into godless socialists if he ever got elected! Guess what? The corona virus has already done that! Also, don't think you're getting free money. You'll be paying it back eventually with future taxes assuming that the US economy ever fully recovers.

      Everyone first thought the epidemic in the US might only last two months at most. Then we turned a bit pessimistic and were predicting it would at most take to the end of August to burn itself out. Now it turns out that the government is planning on it lasting 18 MONTHS or to the fall of 2021! There was even one expert who said that this virus might not be seasonal like the flu but will be here year round infecting people in waves.

      You want to run in and get a quick test to find out if that fever you have is due to corona virus so you don't put everyone else in your family at risk? Forget it. Whether you get the test or not depends on who you are, where you are located, and how much money you have! All of the professional athletes are being tested whether they have symptoms or not. That's so their billionaire owners can to make sure they are in good shape so they can keep the money rolling in from televised sporting events. The average person won't be tested unless he can prove he's been in contact with someone else who tested positive. Good luck proving that!

      More and more "young and healthy" people are showing up in hospital ER's with severe symptoms and 4 out of 5 were infected by others who had no symptoms! Italy had a record one day corona virus death count yesterday of 375 people. They had only been averaging about 300 deaths per day. New daily records are slowly being set in all countries that are infected. Many still don't take the pandemic seriously and won't until they or the people around them start dying off.

      The US Auto Industry is closing down all plants in Mexico, the US, and Canada until at least the end of this month and maybe much longer. The Dow on the New York Stock Exchange dropped below 19,000 points yesterday. By the end of this week, it could be below 15,000 which means it will lose about 50% of its highest value in only a few weeks. Still think stocks are a great investment?


      Anonymous and PROUD of it!

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    11. Update. I heard a rumor this morning that was a little bizarre. I tend to believe rumors because most of the time they are true! There's a company in the US right now that specializes in making ventilators which our medical people say we will need tens of thousands of in the coming months as the corona virus pandemic worsens here. That company makes about 100 of the machines per week and these machines are complicated electronically and mechanically and are expensive. They have a huge backlog of orders now that will take months to fill. Sounds good? Yes, if you live in CHINA because all of their back orders are going to be shipped over there!

      However, GM may put idled workers back to work making ventilators on their assembly lines. It will take months to switch over the production. I wonder if the machines will have the same GM logo on them found on the front grilles of their cars? That would be cool! Then for showing your appreciation for being saved by the machine, you make your next car a GM model.

      Trump gave a press conference today and mentioned that there's a "game changer" drug to fight corona virus that should be available in a few days! Pharmaceutical company stocks quickly spiked. Then a reality check showed it was more "fake news". They did recently test two drugs used to fight HIV AIDS but they were ineffective against corona virus. There is a drug used to fight malaria, which is caused by a parasite and not a virus, that in the past seemed to show it could inhibit the corona virus from infecting cells. That was in a Petri dish. Whether or not it will work in a human is unknown and will take up to 6 months of testing to determine.

      As soon as the reality check news got out, those who cashed in on the spike in the pharmaceutical company stock price quickly sold off and counted their profits. They now wait for Trump to announce his next bit of encouraging fake news to make some more money in some other industry. Any good news is used to buy in and ride the temporary spike in price per share up and then quickly sell out leaving the late comers to take the losses as the price sinks back down again. These are known as "sucker rallies" and the rich just love them. Amazing how many suckers there are in America that think they are going to make a killing in the stock market. They are eagerly welcomed into the market by the brokers who profit off them based on their buying and selling and could care less if they make any money by doing that and the rich who continually feed financially off of their stupidity and wishful thinking. They'd be better off buying lottery tickets!

      About those $1,000 checks the government is supposed to be sending to us all. There's a catch. They will only go to "taxpayers". If your Adjusted Gross Income was less than $12,000 per year, then you did not pay any federal income tax and are not a taxpayer. You don't get a check. If, however, your AGI was $100,000 per year, then you do get your check. Seems like all of the "help" going to "the people" will mostly be going to those that don't really need it! So what else is new in America? Meanwhile, plenty of low interest, bale out loans, funded by taxpayers, of course, will be going out to the various corporations to keep them from defaulting on their corporate bonds and being forced into bankruptcy.


      Anonymous and PROUD of it!

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    12. Update. There are now 11,000 cases in the US and the number keeps rising every day.

      The governor of the state of Pennsylvania just announced that tomorrow all "non life essential businesses" will be closing up in his state. 200,000 people applied for unemployment insurance payments last week.

      Boeing, the largest aircraft and defense manufacturer in the world, will be getting a 60 billion dollar bail out loan, courtesy of US taxpayers, to keep them from going bankrupt.

      If you are exposed to the virus, you have a one in five chance of having to be hospitalized!

      I used my bank's drive in window today. You have to put your bank book and withdrawl slip into a plastic canister and then put it into a slot. It is then sucked up a pipe and travels a hundred feet to the teller who you can see over a tv screen. Somewhat of a pain, but the bank's lobby is closed for routine transactions for the foreseeable future. I then went shopping at two supermarkets. One had half of its shelves almost or completely empty and the other store was closed early because the chaos there before I arrived had cleared all of the shelves!

      Tomorrow ALL domestic air travel in the US will cease. Trains could be next!

      Now they are now talking about sending taxpayers TWO checks for $1,200 each. One this month and one next month.


      Anonymous and PROUD of it!

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    13. Same problem in my area. If you get to the store later in the day the shelves are mostly empty. You got to get there early if you want to get what you need. People have to realize that when they hoard they leave less for others. Stop being greedy. Consider your neighbor and his family. They need food, tissues, and toilet paper too!

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    14. Update Europe.

      Spain is the fourth country to have more than thousand dead’s. More countries will follow the coming days. This is going faster and faster. In the Netherlands we had yesterday more than 400 new infections. The greatest increase since it started. They fear that most of the counties follow the path of Italy that has currently more than 41.000 infections and 3.400 dead’s.

      In the end, when this is all over, we might look back and see that China had the most effective defence. They were building extra hospitals like crazy. And what are we doing here in the west? We are trying to save the economy.

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    15. I just heard some interesting news.

      Months ago the Chinese knew that a corona virus pandemic was coming our way and deliberately started to hold back on their sales and shipments of those surgical masks to the US that our healthcare workers need to protect themselves from infection while treating the sick here. Now that the pandemic is here however and killing Americans in increasing numbers, suddenly the Chinese have plenty of masks to sell us...of course, at a much higher price than they were before the pandemic hit us!

      Anyone who thinks the Chinese are still Communists is sadly mistaken. They are now beating the money hungry American capitalists at their own game!

      Americans are now getting more and more annoyed as they realize how really unprepared this country was for such a pandemic despite MONTHS of knowing in advance that it was coming. There's only one word to describe that...INCOMPETENCE!

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    16. Whow! Did you?! I heard that russian trolls are spreading fake news amongst different blogs about the pandemic trying to create panic and division. The blogs that are not moderated might be taken offline as a precaution.

      Update Europe: 534 more infections in the Netherlands. It is still rising. On April 6th they are going to decide if my paid leave :) is extended to maybe august. Corona Rules!!!

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  26. It's real and it’s just nature, taking revenge. I shouldn’t worry about it. You just have to sit it out and meanwhile consider the world around you because this is a historical event that has not happened since the black death. Look at it from the bright side. I am currently on a three week leave and it might even be extended. I’m in Amsterdam and we are a few weeks ahead of the US. China seem to be not spreading anymore.

    Most important thing is to slow the spreading to spare healthcare. They can't cope with it right now.

    https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

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  27. Simple...... Simple....... Simple......... If Diameter determines the amount of power, then... it is logical that there is a long moment arm involved. Even a small weight on a long moment arm can do a lot of work.

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    1. Also, the heavier the weights the more the power will be...

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  28. Hi

    About small topic here: Will BW function at all in outer space? The answer will be - yes it will work if met all needed conditions for that.

    I posted to John one picture about one of my tests with my "BW" in space. I Hope John can put this picture up here.
    In this test are used "BW" (the mechanism is hidden behind circle like cover), lever, motor and BW counterweight + there is no gravity involved.
    BW has mounted on one end of the lever. In the other end of the lever is mounted the exact same amount of mass, as much BW itself weights.
    The lever is fixed from its center axis to a stationary imaginary background. This center axis acts/is as/like a motor, turning lever with continuous and steady speed around its axis. In this way, all BW and its inner parts are (sorry, have not found correct English word here for this, so I call this with next) "in the act with" centrifugal force when lever turns around its axis with an ideal speed.
    BW wheel starts to rotate as soon lever will start to reach its ideal RPM.
    There is visible one weight path (red line), it draws quite a nice figure with his movement in this artificial gravity.
    If the motor stops spinning the lever, also BW will stop shortly afterward.

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    1. I’m not aware of any picture from you! PLMKRN?

      JC

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    2. I have sent it now once more to, in Submitted Drawings provided address.

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    3. I tried to add your picture but ended up deleting the other one as well! Sorry but this idea is not working and I have had to remove the option.

      JC

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    4. Ok, understood. Life goes on no matter can others see that picture or not :)
      Thanks for trying anyway.

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    5. @PLMKRN

      Just go to photobucket.com and set up a free account there which takes about a minute. Then upload your wheel drawings there and post the links here.

      If you have a Google Gmail account it comes with a Google Drive account with something like 10 gigabytes of free storage space and you can put the drawings there. On your Gmail page just click the Google App symbol at the upper right corner of the page (it looks like a 3 x 3 square made of dots) and then hunt around for the Google Drive icon (it looks like a triangle made of three colored bars) and click it. Then upload your wheel drawings there to "the cloud" and post the links here.

      There is no need for JC to have to set up a separate page on this blog for anybody's drawings, photos, or even videos. You can do it yourself in a minute or two.

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  29. Why not just have the weights situated at a 90 degree angle to the axis so that the force that's acting upon those weights can keep the wheel in a constant state of imbalance? I mean, no matter where the weights are located on the wheel, they should all be applying their force at right angles to the axis.

    Perpetualman.

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  30. PLMKRN,I think it would work. Except, I like the wind blowing in my face. Sam

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  31. Is a geared or sprocket driven Roberval Balance Gravity Wheel not possible? I seen a picture on overunity.com that seemed like it would work. But, many a people say that it is impossible because no matter where that levers are placed, it won't turn.

    So what's the problem?

    Perpetualman.

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  32. Mechanically, gravity's just a uniform acceleration, and, being constant, it's the same up as down, hence a closed-loop trajectory sees a mass accelerated and decelerated in equal proportion, for no net gain in momentum.

    Yet Bessler's wheels gained momentum, despite being statorless; furthermore, he insisted this was a necessary condition for ANY 'true' PMM, in other words, he'd generalised the principles of mechanical over-unity to the accumulation of reactionless momentum from gravity, and it is THIS that is the inherently over-unity process.

    The only way to break the symmetry of 'momentum in' vs 'momentum out' for a statorless closed-loop GPE interaction is to apply a rising vs falling time asymmetry; this causes a net loss or gain of momentum per cycle. It could be applied via the kiiking principle (ie. by applying the ice-skater effect to speed up a lift or slow down a fall), or simply via 'classic OB' - radial lifts with angular drops. All else being equal however, these momentum gains do not break energy unity.

    Input / output energy unity is only broken when the input energy cost of momentum is speed-invariant; a condition which can only arise in a statorless system, wherein the reaction mass / inertia (if there is one) rotates around with the wheel, such that their relative speed is always zero at the start of each reactionless acceleration / momentum gain cycle. This fixes the per-cycle energy cost of momentum to an unchanging value, that does not increase even as their net velocity continues to rise each full cycle.

    Thus the net input energy scales linearly, whilst the output KE squares with velocity, hence there is always some threshold velocity where those two plots intersect - the 'unity threshold' - below which the system is under-unity, and above which, it is over.


    The problem is in achieving that condition mechanically. As a physical proposition, it's plain sailing. But actually trying to implement it in the real world, is HARD..!

    Not least is the problem of 'G-time' being inverse to RPM - the faster a system rotates, the less time weights spend rising OR falling each cycle, and so the less KE is collected from their fall. Gravity does not rotate around with the system! Yet this simple intersection of basic spatial and temporal constraints is the singular cause of the fact that momentum yields from gravity NECESSARILY diminish by the inverse square of RPM, thus causing net input PE to track output KE per the KE equation..

    ..what this means is that the momentum source CANNOT be passive gravitation! Passive over-balance alone is IMPOSSIBLE without an effective GPE asymmetry, which for its part is DEFINITELY IMPOSSIBLE!


    It means that the momentum gains came not only from gravity, but were augmented - and increasingly so with RPM - by a series of internal reactionless accelerations. These culminated in the impacts heard from the descending side of the wheels.

    This isn't speculative, just the bare facts that must apply here, from a physical / mathematical point of view.

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    1. The Toys page is showing us a series of five reactionless accelerate-and-brake cycles with a 25% per-cycle efficiency accumulator, so, four cycles to unity, and five to 125%. Every cycle dissipates 75% of the input PE in those subsequent impacts, yet it's the same amount every cycle, too, and the 25% that DOES get spent on acceleration is ALSO constant, regardless of RPM.. and thus a linear PE evolution, for a KE output that squares with RPM..

      This 25% p/c accumulator corresponds to a 3:1 ratio between the two inertias in the reactionless accelerate-and-brake cycle. That most likely translates to a basic system containing four equal masses / inertias, which are somehow unilaterally-accelerated one at a time, before impacting and sharing back their momentum gains with the other three. This dissipates 75% of the KE, the remaining 25% causing a momentum rise the KE value of which keeps increasing with RPM.


      This is the only physically-plausible solution.

      It definitely alters Earth's resting state of motion.

      Consider batting a ball connected by elastic cord, whilst ice-skating - if you could bat reactionlessly, you'd still be propelled forwards by the deceleration phase, so you'd accelerate a little each cycle. The work you're doing is constant per cycle, as is the per-cycle acceleration.. yet the KE value of those constant equal accelerations is squaring with rising speed.. Yippee free energy... but what happens when you wanna actually cash it in? To do so, you have to stop.. by braking AGAINST something.

      Now just loop that scenario for the angular equiv. - Bessler was DEFINITELY applying momentum from gravity * time, to the planet. He almost-definitely caused the 1717 Christmas storm.

      Covid-19 kills fast - you go to bed feeling lousy then die in your sleep - but at least it leaves a few doors open downstream eh.. If ever there were a time for openness..?

      If i end up unable to work for a fortnight you know i'll be making another stab at meeting those simple mech. conditions..

      Delete
    2. Viborator, It's more likely that the wheel was OOB--------------Sam

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    3. “Mechanically, gravity's just a uniform acceleration, and, being constant, it's the same up as down, hence a closed-loop trajectory sees a mass accelerated and decelerated in equal proportion, for no net gain in momentum.”

      True. But the, unknown, mechanism in the wheel act as a rectifier. Just as an escapement in a pendulum clock. It changes the “sign” of the force at the right moment. That’s where the gain in force is coming from and can mathematically explain the surplus of energy that causes the wheel to turn.

      Delete
    4. Marinus, It's true, gravity is the same on both sides of the wheel. But, the wheel ISN'T the same on both sides. Think of it this way. On the down side the weights stick out farther. That gives them more mechanical advantage than what they have coming up on up side. The theory of it at least, is ghastly simple.
      However, I concede trying to find a way to do that is a real bitch!

      Delete
    5. No I don’t think it’s the leverage. The secret lies in the forces acting on the masses. On the up side of the wheel the masses are in freefall. There are no forces acting on them. The force of gravity is cancelled out because the masses are swung upwards from underneath the axis, due to a slight OOB that will become worse and worse as the wheel accelerates.

      Well, at least, that’s what I think.

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    6. OK Marinus, what do I know--------------Sam

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    7. I don't know it either. But we are trying. :)

      Delete
  33. Can we make a pledge to create a successful BW By the end of this year?...

    We have gone through too much doses of comments from all angles...

    Yet, it appears we have not come to any solid understanding... most of the time we act like novices...

    We haven't even finalized the number of weights...it ranges from three, five, eight and so on...

    As per bessler's clues it could be eight... but why not we begin with four?...

    Geometrically even number is symmetrical considering the clues...

    It is not necessary that an odd number such as five is required...I think the fifth is being taken into consideration for imbalancing the wheel... the imbalancing takes place automatically during fast rotation... there is lot of swinging happening... things are really fast inside during rotation...

    All the lever-weight units have to be equal in size and weight...

    The wheel's outer frame has to be sturdy enough to withstand constant bombardment...

    Let us make energy while the gravity exists...

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  34. Just like a jig-saw puzzle it falls into place... one fine day...

    That's right... when one gets right picture of the internal mechanism of BW...

    This is so because of its simplicity...

    Even before starting the build you will be extremely sure that it is the one...

    But then, why is it so elusive?...

    Because, no one is on the right track...

    That's why it is always wise to compare the concept first with the clues...

    Another wise thing is always start from the scratch... not with the clues in mind or others concept initially...

    Originality, counts... everyone has is own opinion and all the ones are not necessarily correct...

    Common sense can easily find out who's right...

    Sometimes, it is found the moment someone makes a suggestion it is instantly cheered and encouraged...

    And sadly, very valuable hints go unsung...




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  35. Why does it have to be a Bessler wheel? Why can’t it be a (Suresh wheel), or a (Marinus wheel), or how about a Perpetualman wheel? Actually, I like the sound of that last one.

    But seriously though, I know I will never be able to figure out how Bessler made his wheel. But I’m confident that I can design a wheel that will be my own creation. It may not look like Besslers will but it will be gravity powered. Isn’t that what we’re trying to achieve, a gravity power wheel?

    Does it really have to be designed after Besslers clues? And please don’t jump to conclusions and think that I’m putting down Bessler or anyone else. I was just wondering why can’t we all just work on our own gravity powered devices.

    I’m only asking this question because I have a unique design in mind and I truly believe that it will achieve the desired results once it’s built. But of course, I’m still waiting on my parts to get here.

    Perpetualman.

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    Replies
    1. "Why does it have to be a Bessler wheel?"

      I never believed that Bessler's design was the only way to build an OOB wheel. There could be many ways. All you have to do is figure out a way to keep the COG of the weights always on one side of the axle as the wheel turns. The problem is that as the wheel starts to turn, the COG immediately begins to drop and your design, whatever it is, must immediately compensate for that and keep raising the COG up and do it at the same speed that the turning wheel tries to drop it so the COG stays in one place relative to the floor of the room with your wheel in it.

      That gets you into designs that involve some sort of mechanical connections between the weights that controls their shiftings around inside of the turning wheel. Those shiftings have to somehow be gravity activated and automatic and also happen faster and faster as the wheel picks up speed. You are going to need some sort of combination of levers, rods, springs, cords, and so on to do it. Will it be simple? Maybe. Can it be complicated? Why not? All that really matters is that it works! If it does and you could go back in time and show it to Bessler, he might slap his head and say in German "Why didn't I think of that?"

      You might have an idea right now that you are very convinced will work but it could only be an idea that dozens tried in the last or the 19th century and realized was useless but they didn't bother to record it anywhere and no one knows about their many failures with it and never will. This applies to any hot new design you see being discussed on the web. All we really know for sure at this point in time is that no one has a working real wheel that they can show all of the inner parts of and can put on a clear glass table and let others walk around it and see everything inside of it working together as the wheel spins away. That has been the situation from the moment Bessler destroyed his last wheel to the present. We can only hope it changes soon.

      Delete
    2. I'm afraid it has to be Bessler's way, or no way----------- Sam

      Delete
    3. What about Asa Jackson's pm wheel? Here's a photo of the back of it:

      https://www.flickr.com/photos/cheneworth/6779905087

      Delete
  36. I meant to say, it may not look like Bessel’s “wheel”

    ReplyDelete
  37. There is only one way of achieving a successful gravity wheel... the bessler's way... I learnt this the hard way... whatever gravity based wheel you build finally it will end up as the BW...

    Please note that we are reinventing a superior wheel... the actual wheel invented/discovered in ancient time revelutionized the world...

    We are not sure how the reinvented wheel would fare...

    I can think of New toys based on bessler Wheel appearing in the market...new devices pertaining to agriculture sector...new power generation systems... show pieces on the domestic front...and so on... the list is long...

    So the ultimate credit should go to the most misunderstand man, the odd man, the peculiar man, the paranoid man... Bessler...

    He should have the last laugh...

    ReplyDelete
  38. We cannot ultimately conclude that gravity only can run a bessler wheel... because we don't fully know how gravity is used by bessler Wheel... Come to think of it, we don't even understand gravity completely...

    Logically we know that BW is a device that defies gravity...

    On one side of the wheel gravity is helpful but it is not so on the other side...

    Infact, it is simply trying to stop the wheel from rotating on the ascending side...

    In other words, it is not helpful completely...

    Magnetic properties can be beneficial...it must be possible to run a bessler wheel or improve its performance by using external magnets below the descending side...

    Then you may even call them as a high breed BW...

    Magnets can come in handy in a place where the gravity is scarce or completely absent...

    Even great ones like Newton sir or Einstein failed to fully define gravity...

    Wind involves rapid movement of air molecules...and so is water... but it is not so in gravity's case...

    You need to device a mechanism whose parts behave like air or water molecules in motion...

    Then you can see how bessler wheel benefits from gravity...

    We really lack the bessler brain...we fail to notice that others failed...in other words...we are not different from others...


    This is the main reason why 300 years have passed and it is still eluding us...


    ReplyDelete
  39. Gravity-only wheel is just impossible. Thousands have failed, John will fail, you wil fail if you pursue the same path.
    Bessler himself said that he used some springs. There must be an additional component other than gravity. May be he stored energy in the springs? I do not know. I am pretty sure that machine involved more than gravity.

    This level of distrust to science is also unfounded.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yellow, You are wrong. About the gravity and the scientist-----------Sam

      Delete
  40. "Magnets can come in handy in a place where the gravity is scarce or completely absent..."

    Magnets could make a wheel that would turn in any position in the Earth's gravity or even out in space with no gravity. Ken B gives a design for a permanent magnetic motor at the end of his book that looks like it could actually work. It uses magnets whose fields have been distorted in such a way as to push against each other and always produce a torque on a rotor's axle. Like his design for Bessler's wheel, his permanent magnet motor also has a design that I haven't seen before. It would be much easier and cheaper to build than even Bessler's smallest wheel and could have more torque than the Kassel wheel but be as small as a microwave oven! It only has one moving part which is its rotor. He thinks a larger one could drive a lightweight automobile up to highway speeds and the driver would never need to stop at a gas station again except for occasional repairs.

    ReplyDelete
  41. John, your blog is infected with some virus that spreads all kind of nonsense that originated from Ken B's worthless book. You should do something about it.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Go away. We are trying to solve a riddle, we are busy. Stop polluting this blog you prick.

      Delete
    2. Werner von Braun once said "You're a crackpot until you hit the jackpot". Ken B. has either hit the jackpot or he has not. If he has he will become almost as famous as Bessler and if he has not then I don't think he'll really be considered to be a crackpot. He'll just be another guy who made a bit of a stir and maybe got some people interested in Bessler and his wheels who never heard of him before. I wish him luck as I do any one chasing the secrets of pm and Bessler's wheels. The more ideas we have the better and the more sims of them made the better. Sooner or later someone's got to find Bessler's "simple" design unless it was all just a big scam and we've all been chasing after a fairy tale for the last 300 years. I can't even believe that could be possible although some of my friends are constantly telling me that is exactly what has been happening. They mean well I'm sure, but they haven't really studied the Bessler history in detail.

      Delete
    3. Yeah you're right. Maybe we should just feel sorry for him. But he is a crackpot!

      Delete
    4. I don't feel sorry for him but admire him. I think he's made an important effort to advance our knowledge of Bessler's wheels and that time will prove him right. Those that criticize him now haven't read his book or haven't carefully read it. He's found dozens of previously unknown clues in the two portraits and they all point to that particular wheel he shows in his youtube video. I'm looking forward to seeing what happens when others simulate the design. If they also work you'll see a lot of builders tripping over themselves to be the first to make a working prototype.

      Delete
  42. You could be right Sir...I never said it is gravity only...

    But it is neither spring based... springs were used as an enhancer... for hastening the swinging motion...

    I am sure you don't know the bessler technology fully because you need to think like bessler...

    It looks complicated but it is not...

    I wish I start building and prove to you all this...

    I told you earlier in this blog that it is a combination of CF, CP and inertia...

    If you can use the benefits of above three then you will be able to understand...

    I agree with you it is not totally gravity based...it is a tricky machine that takes the benefit of gravity, technology and laws of motion in a very ingenuous way...

    If you still challenge then I will have to brace up and come out of my laziness to prove to you that it works...

    My greatest enemy is my laziness...

    Yes, the machine involved more than gravity...finely engineered parts specifically designed to both use gravity and the scientific principles of motion and energy...

    An engineering marvel...

    ReplyDelete
  43. Planets revolve around the sun... gravity is responsible...

    Then why not in the case of BW?...

    ReplyDelete
  44. You feel lazy because most probably you are afraid of failure.
    I think, you do not want to face the reality.




    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That Yellow I agree with, plus the fact it can't be figured out just by natural smartness. Sam

      Delete
    2. You mean to say my 35 years of efforts to study bessler Wheel would go in vain?...

      I heard that this much effort is Even enough to realize God...

      Well, at the moment, all I can say is wait and watch...

      JC sir is right about his belief that bessler Wheel is real and there is no additional force involved...

      It is easy to critisize but the right action would be to investigate the matter without bias...

      Delete
    3. "It is easy to critisize but the right action would be to investigate the matter without bias..."

      You will quickly realize on this blog and every free energy type site that everyone has their own pet bias and if anything new comes along from someone else that does not agree with it completely it is immediately ignored or ridiculed. Also, everyone thinks only he has the answer and everyone else must just be a delusional nut case. Most likely, all are delusional as everyone else has been since Bessler and will continue to be. They just don't know it yet and most have various ways of making sure they will never have to face that fact. They do that by finding excuses to never actually finish a wheel or if it's finished to never fully test it. Others have all sorts of calculations and drawings that they know show a wheel that will surely work if it is built but never get around to building it themselves or having someone else build it for them. Others, the "armchair philosophers", just talk endlessly about what the solution must be and don't bother doing any calculations, making drawings, or building anything. For every pm chaser who actually builds something there are dozens who never will and probably can't because they lack the ambition, skills, or minimum equipment and materials to do so.

      Delete
    4. I think I don't belong to any of this category...

      If I don't have it I don't have it...why Should I pretend that I have it... this is my philosophy...

      I don't believe in telling lies and living...

      I was never labelled as a liar at any stage in my life...

      I spent 10 years in this blog... Except professional trolls and a few new joiners no one has dismissed my comments largely...

      I am very serious and sensitive in daily living...


      Anyway, if bessler succeeded then there is no doubt that it can be reproduced...

      It is people like you who are responsible for the prevailing incredibility...

      You were involved with several topics such as UFO, etc.,...

      But in my case I have specialized only in understanding bessler Wheel and am positive about it...

      I believe in karma and destiny...

      One has to be destined to be successful in this field...

      Yellow is biased because he has come to hasty conclusions without fully investigating the matter...he is not very sure about anything yet insists that some additional force is involved...

      He didn't respond to my other comment about solar system...

      Yellow waited patiently for JC sir's wheel and finally lost his patience...

      JC sir's inordinate delay is the reason for this...

      And delay is the deadliest form of denial... which JC sir has failed to realize...

      Delete
    5. My inordinate delay as you put it, Suresh, has nothing to with denial. I have other more demanding matters on my mind. My granddaughter Amy suffers from a range of debilitating illnesses which include CRPS also known as RSD in the USA, and PTSD which are now known to be symptoms of FND. This whole condition suddenly presented itself without warning two years ago. It is believed to have been caused by a extremely unpleasant experience she suffered at Uni. She was unable to feed herself, control her bladder, walk or even sit up, and lost the use of her left arm, which the developed dystonia. She is making very slow improvements and she is so tough, but she needs to her family as often as possible. So my wheel is taking shape but very slowly, for which I apologise.

      JC

      Delete
    6. Planets are slowing down Suresh.

      Besslerwheel is real but it HAS TO require additional forces.

      As far as I can see from his design, John will fail eventually.

      Do you really think Bessler used a couple of pendulums, levers, gears and got the result?

      Delete
    7. Suresh, Maybe you are right I shouldn't criticize, but, you make it sound like a flying carpet-------------you have only to command it; and it will take off. You will find out, that it doesn't work that way. Maybe it's best that you never build your wheel, it might disobey you.

      Delete
    8. Maybe the real reason for JC's "inordinate delay" is because he has become a victim of the Mr. Lepard Spots 2029 Prophecy! It is indeed a very powerful prophecy and more like a curse meant to turn all of his efforts into failures. To overcome that so he can start getting some successful results with his wheel, I recommend that he consider carrying a lucky talisman of some sort with him. I know several people who experienced dramatic turnarounds in their situations when they gave it a try.

      Since Bessler attributed his luck in finding a pm wheel that worked to God and the number 7 is lucky and associated with God's place in the heavens, John might try wearing a talisman like this one to help him. It should be worn continuously day and night for maximum effect. If he cannot wear it on a neck chain or bracelet, then it should be attached to some item he always has with him like a key ring or pants belt with a clip.

      https://planets.powerfortunes.com/amulet-images/talisman-horoscope.jpg


      Sayer of Sooths

      Delete
    9. @SoS

      Maybe John should wear three of them to triple his luck? Can't hurt. Seems everything else he tries with his wheel isn't working. Lol!

      In the first DT portrait, Bessler's thumb and index finger of his left hand form a number 7. Maybe that's a sign to future people trying to duplicate his wheels to wear that number as a talisman or lucky charm? I'm going to have to see about getting some of them! Maybe if I make and wear a necklace with seven of them that will finally get my wheel running!

      I just noticed that if you make a 1 x 2 rectangle and then draw the number 7 along its shorter top side and through its diagonal, then the angle inside of the 7 is about 63 degrees. Could this be an important angle for the levers inside of Bessler's wheels? Why is Bessler making that particular number with his fingers???

      Delete
  45. While I am hiding from the enemy wandering our surroundings, I have downloaded Algodoo. Did some tutorials and what do you think? I managed to create a simulation of a triple-double pendulum with angels of 120 degrees that I was always curious about. I would to show it to you all but don’t know how.

    Does someone know how I create a video from my desktop? So I can upload it to youtube and provide a link.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. https://camstudio.org/
      +
      Search from the all mighty "camstudio best settings"

      Delete
    2. Thanks. Meanwhile I have found that it can be done with with standard windows 10 using xBox Game Bar. I have the video. Yes yes yes yes... Now I have to upload it to youtube so I can write down the link.

      You're all gonna be amazed.

      Delete
  46. Hello Henry L.

    Thanks for the link to the YouTube video concerning the Roberval balance. That was really interesting and for a moment there I thought it would really work. And I know many people throughout the years have been trying to build a device based on the Roberval balance and still haven’t figured it out yet. But, I’m not going down the same path that JC is on, I’m taking a different path and adding a new twist to the Roberval
    balance gravity wheel machine that I’m going w build.

    So with that said, does anyone know what would be a good cement to use that doesn’t have gravel in it? I’m going to make weights for my gravity wheel but I was wondering if there’s a powdered type cement without a lot of gravel in it that you can just mix with water.

    Perpetualman.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You're welcome, Perpetualman. I gave the link to that video so you wouldn't waste your time with that Roberval balance approach which has deceived many pm wheel chasers in the past. Good luck, however, if you think you've got a "new twist" to it that would make it work.

      They have a fine grain cement with powdered vinyl added to it that is waterproof when set and used to repair cracks and leaks in in-ground swimming pools. It might be just what you are looking for. It hardens with a smooth finish and won't crumble when rubbed. It's more expensive than regular Portland cement, but worth the price. You might try calling a place that supplies materials for swimming pools and see if they have it.

      Henry L.

      Delete
    2. John Collins,
      I'm beginning to realize your blog is addictive. I think I need to go into rehab! Sam

      Delete
    3. Sam. You're probably way better off being addicted to this blog than to booze, drugs, or sex....on second thought, exclude that last one from the list. Lol!

      Delete
  47. Thank you Henry.

    I thought this was the Bessler rehab clinic?😊

    Just kidding 😊

    Perpetualman.

    ReplyDelete
  48. I did it! I have my own YouTube channel. I might as well login with my new Google account. It probably looks great.

    Especially for Ken B and his gang, halfway the video I simulate the system functioning in space.

    So now I will try to build my design in Algodoo. Therefore I must learn much more about the program. And maybe, one day, I might reveal on this blog that John was right ( and Ken B was not ).

    That is, if Perpetualman does not do that first of course with a real build. I mean as sim is just a sim, it’s not real.

    Enjoy!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VJ-dcA1rio

    @Sam
    You might try Algodoo. It’s also addictive but new addictions don’t make you suffer so much. It’s like a completely new breath of fresh air. Which makes me ask, how is COVID-19 doing over there. Where is over there anyway? You said it was far.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I really need help! I've fallen off the wagon already---------thanks I'll try Algodoo. Sam

      Delete
    2. Oh yeah, california, We've been requested to remain in our burrows, kind of like prairie dogs.

      Delete
    3. I tried Algodoo a while ago and found it did not have the accuracy I was looking for. For that you really need something like WM2D. But, Algodoo can be something to practice with and get you started in that direction. Your upload to YT looks nice. You might make those swinging arms a little shorter though so they don't hit into the axle.

      Delete
  49. Planets are slowing down I agree...

    But the reasons may vary...

    Even space is filled with distractors...

    Dark energy...

    But the revolving planets do prove that gravity is the enabler...

    If you really ask me, I can say that solar system was not designed by bessler and that is why they are slowing down...

    Because, the mechanism that is in the solar system lacks one more critical component that bessler employed in his wheels...

    There's a way to trick gravity...

    And, this is known only to bessler...

    It is double benefit principle in bessler's system...

    And, this is what is not being understood by most here...

    It makes it possible to both assist in falling and lifting of the weights...

    You may laugh out loud but this is a fact...

    This unique designing Technic is not known to any bessler enthusiast...

    And, that includes you, JC sir and Even Ken...

    It is not found in their vocabulary or boos authored by them...

    When you get to know this Yellow sir...

    You will not only be amazed but will enact the scene of Karl...

    Which he did when he viewed it...

    You will tap your head saying why nobody thought of it before...

    The wheels ran for More than two months in confined rooms and also it was certified no other external force was involved...

    Bessler story has survived even to this day...

    Those who don't fully investigate this can say anything...

    During this ten years in this blog I haven't noticed anyone commenting about this unique trick employed by Bessler...

    I am not fantasising...

    If there was any additional force bessler would really left an additional Clue...

    I haven't come across a more honest person than bessler...

    May his soul RIP..

    And, if you still Stick Around here and I f I survive the Corona scare I assure you I will reveal this unique Technic...

    And, that's a soldier's promise...

    ReplyDelete
  50. If in your 10 years at this blog you haven't noticed anyone commenting on this unique trick employed by bessler, then it is high time you realized that the pool you are exclusively swimming in is just a small puddle, as far as bessler and PM research goes.

    ReplyDelete
  51. And it is high time for you as well to understand that such exclusive pools do really exist and you need to explore them all to finally rule out any such possibility...

    If bessler did it then why can't anyonedo it now?...

    Groping in the wrong direction...

    Yes, most are on the wrong track...

    What made Karl to sigh?...

    What is that which bessler incorporated that made it possible?...

    What is it as per Karl that others had not thought of before?...

    What made learned men certify to its authenticity?...

    If an additional force is involved then what is it?...

    Is it really an additional force or an additional Technic?...

    Why was bessler so paranoid?...

    Alright, why bessler took so much pain to safeguard it?...

    Because, it is a trade secret?...

    ReplyDelete
  52. No other force involved but Gravity, and Moment of Inertia. No augmentation by Cf and Cp as you stated earlier Suresh. Those forces are incidental and common to all wheels in motion. That's why I know you are barking up the wrong tree. And because I too believe you are not lazy but extremely fearful of your fantasy being dismantled, which is why you play this quite boring game of tell and no show. It was a simple mechanical manipulation to maintain constant imbalance in his single direction wheels. No trick involved other than creative tinkering and thinking. Anyone can also find the solution if they apply themselves for long enough. Oh, it might help to know some basic mechanics and some working familiarity with physics but not a prerequisite. It was that simple.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @anon 07:26

      I agree that, if anything, Cf and Cp were factors that limited how much torque B's wheels could produce as they accelerated. But, oddly, these forces could also have a valuable purpose. By limiting the maximum speed of a free running wheel, they kept it from turning so fast that it tore itself apart. They did that by interfering with the swingings of the levers inside of the drum which then made the CoG of the weights move closer to the axle center to reduce the torque on the axle. I'm also a believer in the KB wheel and think it shows how that would happen as the Cf delayed the inward swinging of the ascending side levers between the 6 and 9 oclock parts of the drum. As soon as that delay starts, the CoG of all of the weights will begin to move toward a location under the center of the axle.

      As for SK he obviously has some need to come here to continually philosophize and won't be showing us anything because he probably has nothing to show. Maybe he thinks he serves the purpose of encouraging others to look for solutions and in the direction he thinks they should look? Actually most people posting here are also doing that but in different ways. I just wish he'd start single spacing the sentences in his comments so we don't have to scroll down a page to read them all.

      Delete
  53. Yes, I agree with you fine?

    Whatever you say is right and I am wrong...is it okay now?...

    Are you happy with it now?...

    Recently, I revealed about children playing...

    And, there was no adverse comment about it...or even a slight lauding..

    I would like to know why there was no reaction from any quarters...

    Was I wrong there?...

    If I wanted to cheat anyone I wouldn't reveal my identity...

    You guys don't know whom or what to rule out...

    A simple thing such as that tinkering which amazed Karl is not known to you guys...

    And when I want to convince something I am trolled...

    This is what happened with bessler and that is why he took it to the grave...

    Sometimes I feel there's no point in reasoning with you...

    It took me so many years to learn and you want I should reveal it immediately...

    The problem with social media is that it can make by even an innocent man to appear as a fraud...

    Whatever you say is true and the other is wrong...

    Another thing is that we are not face to face and it is just impossible to convince anyone this way...

    They don't know with whom they are talking...

    There is something known as she, experience, common sense, etc which differs from person to person...

    All this is not considered...

    How do you know for sure I am barking up the wrong tree?...

    What do I gain by boring everyone?...

    The simple tinkering and that's what I am also talking about is...

    I want to convey something but it is being wrongly understood...

    Lot of understanding and patience is reqd...

    I appreciate Yellow sir...he has posed this challenge now...

    We should brace up and prove him wrong...

    And that bessler was right...

    Go ahead if you want to believe believe and if you don't believe that is okay with me...

    Even Bessler, Jesus or Buddha couldn't convince everyone...

    After all I am an ordinary guy...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "It took me so many years to learn and you want I should reveal it immediately..."

      Yes. That would be much better than jerking everyone here around with vague hints over the next ten blogs and even then not finally revealing anything. If you know the real meaning of the "children play..." clue, then just say it and see what others think of it. Some may agree and some may disagree, but at least you will get some feedback. Maybe after you read what others have to say, you will change your mind about what you think it means. It could happen. Are you afraid of that possibility? Many here think you are.

      Delete
    2. Prove me wrong please Suresh.

      Delete
  54. Children are the weights and pillars are levers and the loud sound is the banging we already know...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It's a small start. But what are the clubs supposed to represent? You would think it was the clubs that are supposed to be levers.

      Delete
    2. A club is a section of the main lever or you can say an extension of it...
      Two small levers make one main lever...
      In other words...a lever consists of two parts
      A lever is expected to carry out two functions...for raising and lowering a weight...
      That is as discreetly as possible I could reveal at the moment..but more later when I make a final revelation...

      Delete
    3. Better yet make a drawing, post it somewhere, and give us a link to it. Word descriptions of mechanical parts can become very confusing very quickly. As they say "A picture is worth a thousand words."

      Delete
    4. A picture which is worth a thousand words also can spill the entire beans... especially in bessler's case... that is why bessler left behind more than 141 pictures...to make the detection harder...
      You say that it is a small start...but it is a big leap for besslerkind... considering the mechanism which is utterly simple...

      Delete
  55. Yellow...I am going to start from scratch and will update the progress periodically...

    I know you could be talking like this only to raise our morals...

    ReplyDelete
  56. I am done with Algodoo. Its to coarse, I can't build my design with it. Here you can find my final simulation.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBW9wJkOtrM

    Which made my think. If Bessler's wheel rotated unloaded at 40 rpm. Then where would the radius be where the masses always would fly out. At witch radius would there be equilibrium? And where would that be under load at 20 rpm?

    I's about forces so;

    Fg = m x g
    Fc = m x w^2 x r

    m x g = m x w^2 x r
    g = w^2 x r
    r = g / w^2

    At 20 rpm the radial velocity => 2pi x rpm / 60 => 40pi / 60 = 2pi/3 = 2.09 rad/s

    r = g / w^2 => 9.81 / 2.09^2 = 2.24 meter. Within this radius Gravity wins.

    At 40 rpm the radial velocity => 2pi x rpm / 60 => 80pi / 60 = 4pi/3 = 4.19 rad/s

    r = g / w^2 => 9.81 / 4.19^2 = 0.56 meter. Within this radius Gravity wins.

    Outside this radius the masses will fly out.

    Whatever the secret, it must be close to the axis. In a free running wheel its the only place where gravity still has effect.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Same problem I had. Algodoo is for kids not serious pm wheel builders. Try that link to the free download of wm2d in the last blog and practice with it. In a few hours you will be able to build about 90% of whatever you want with it.

      Delete
    2. I tried that but had no luck. You need credit card verification and I don't have one.

      Delete
    3. @Marinus

      Watch out for any sites offering "free" downloads of normally expensive software that ask you for credit card verification. They are usually being operated by cyber criminals that are phishing for credit card numbers so they can commit identity theft or steal as much money using the card number as possible. Just to be on the safe side, John should delete that link immediately so it does not cause someone here a lot of problems they don't need.

      Delete
    4. @ Suresh. The correct translation is children playing among the pillar WITH HEAVY clubs (or marbles). The insertion into the sentence of LOUD is an incorrect inclusion by the original translator. This was discussed a couple of blogs ago.

      Delete
    5. But whatever the translation quality is the pillars are the levers and children are the weights...

      That's enough for us to get a start...
      You can't expect more details from clues...
      Bessler used levers to which weights were attached and they swing and produce those banging sounds...
      This much is clear without any doubt...
      But this alone won't suffice...
      Yellow Sir is right...
      Just using levers, weights and gears isn't enough...
      You need your ingenuity to tackle the rest...

      Delete
    6. No Shit Sherlock.

      Delete
  57. Hello Fletcher; Regarding your note on this blog,13 Mar. 20:11, Thanks for your comments! To see the two drawings that were posted on John's blog, visit my website: besslerwheelquest.com Would very much appreciate your comments on this design!

    ReplyDelete
  58. Hello Richard .. firstly I appreciate that you are obviously invested in this idea. You've put much thought into it and by your website notes have experimented with it also. You will have a better understanding than most of how it will perform. That said you have asked specifically for my opinion, rather than starting a Topic at BW.com where others also with similar experience with such designs could comment. On that note I have built many sims of both MT's 24 and 25 in earlier times, which are fundamentally the same mechanical principles. To that end I also tweaked each design as best I could to perhaps enhance its performance etc etc. This made no improvement on their overall operation. I won't sugar coat it but the design as it stands is a dead end and another example of a 'false' PM wheel mechanical principle i.e. no continuous asymmetric torque is produced to cause it to accelerate and maintain an RPM. However not is all lost imo. N.B. apparently there were lessons to be learned from them. Let's take a look at what B. wrote to accompany those woodcuts (wiki page translator Mike Senior).

    No. 24 This invention ought not to be scorned. It consists of separate levers with weights. Between the weights are small iron poles with hinges. The poles fall inward when the levers close.

    There is something one must learn first before one can grasp and correctly understand the good quality of the invention.

    No. 25 This is the previous model except for some differences. It is sketched with longer poles. There is something misleading about the diagram, for the poles, when coming out, must not project so far out but must bend somewhat further inwardly.

    There is more to it than one supposes; one must study the diagram extensively.

    Here's what JC's earlier than wiki original MT hardcover said (translator also Mike Senior).

    MT 24. There is, however, more to explain about it before you will grasp and correctly understand its good qualities.

    MT 25. There is more to this than one might think. Mark my words.

    Obviously, depending on which translation you place more stock in, there is a lesson to be learned that confers good qualities that you must first grasp.

    In my last Topic at BW.com I discuss what those lessons are imo. In short nothing to do with the imbalance factor of these designs. But like the MT9 groupings with the lever-weight Jack Effect then both MT 24 and 25 can operate in a somewhat similar manner to the series hung together lever-weights i.e. on the down-going side the pole (hinge) is displaced outwards, just as the lever-weights of the MT9 groupings are also displaced outwards. That is the similarity and the only thing of importance to be gained from MT's 24 and 25 imo. And therefore that is the only lesson (imo) to be learned and grasp to understand their good qualities. IOW's a finger pointing back to the MT9 groupings and their actions. You can read my thread comments in that Topic to find out where I believed it lead, in essence, if interested.

    All The Best -fletcher

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    1. Ken B made a very short sim of MT 24 back in July of 2016 that showed it was possible to get the weights and levers to shift as Bessler said they should. But, that action did not result in the CoG of the weights being keep on the descending side of the axle. All the wheel does is rock from one side to the other. Here's a link to his 10 second youtube video of his sim:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SD-fJ-VoDCg

      Henry L.

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    2. Yes, my sims did the same. With or without spring assist etc. They are easy mechanical principles to build in WM2D. And for Richard's benefit you can change the mass of objects at will to explore the mass ratio's between the Primary and Shifter weights etc as you call them in your website.

      BTW for those perhaps still wondering why I said MT25 was a finger pointing backwards to the MT9 groupings I'll elaborate.

      Firstly, the only action of consequence for both MT's 24 and 25 is the hinge/pole/primary being flung outwards on the supposed down-going side as said earlier.

      Secondly MT24 has 8 mech sets while MT25 has 4 (retrograde simplicity). Yet MT25 (the basic model) comes after MT24 (the more complex). Hence look backwards !! And look for some similar action !!

      -f

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    3. Agreed. Richard's addition of springs to MT 24 will not make any difference. Also, he has the rope wrapped around the axle or a pulley riding on the axle and Bessler said in a working pm wheel nothing is stationary on the axle. To me this means all of the works of his wheels were out near the rims of their drums. Many have been sent looking in the wrong direction after reading a bad translation about the axle being full of holes and assume that ropes went through the holes in it from one side of the drum to the other. I think it should have been translated as the DRUM is full of holes referring to the holes in the cloth sides that were used for inspection and covered over with larger cloth patches to hide the inner mechs from prying eyes.

      Delete
  59. Does a patent need obtained before a true working gravity wheel is revealed to the public? And if not, how is the would be inventor be compensated for his unbelievable contribution to humanity?

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  60. I was once told that you wouldn’t need a patent because people would give just about whatever you wanted just because you finally proved it to the world.

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    1. Once you disclose it publicly without a patent then anyone can copy and use it and not have to pay you a penny or even credit you with the idea for the invention. They could if they wanted to but are not legally obligated to do so. Also you cannot sue them. But why would you want to patent Johann Bessler's wheel? It was his invention, not yours!

      Delete
    2. He never showed it. Anyone can patent it. First find it.

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    3. @anon10:05

      If that wheel in his youtube video is actually Bessler's wheel because he can show it is based on Bessler's DT portrait clues, then it has been disclosed, courtesy of Ken, and is now in the public domain and cannot be patented. If genuine then the design is also three centuries old which means any previous patents if they did existed have expired by now even if they do show up somewhere today and Ken would not have been able to patent it. However, improvements to it could be patented. In fact if another OOB wheel comes along that even resembles the basics of that video wheel a little then it might be not be patentable. You got to have something different enough that works if you are going to get the patent examiners to agree that it's a new and useful invention worthy of a patent. It can take years of fine tuning the claims in your patent application before it is accepted and your patent granted and even then about half are never granted. It's a long and expensive process in most cases and no where as easy as one might think.

      Delete
    4. Right. Marinus said something like that at 08:13. But if he uploads a working sim which is completely different then Ken's, then he has from that date a whole year to patent it. I doubt if he will, given his statement.

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  61. But during the process of patenting the secret could leak...

    Is there any foolproof way?...

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    Replies
    1. Yes there is. Put it into code, leave clues in your portrait, bury and hide things in different locations. It will take them centuries to figure it out.

      Delete
  62. Forget about a patent. It will be challenged by crackpots and big oil. Defending it will take years and the costs will be enormous.

    Just put in on YouTube for everyone to see.

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  63. WOW Fletcher, great and helpful comments! Thanks. I don't see that (continuous)torque is necessary. My build gives smooth torque impulses each half cycle of the crossbar. It should be possible to transfer this to the rimstops using flat spring "fingers" to give smooth acceleration. 2) In my drawings M.T. 25 continues your"retrograde simplicity " just one more step and uses just 2 mechanical sets on the crossbar, fulfilling the simplicity requirements for mechanism design.

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  64. Here's another sure fire OOB wheel design that looks good in an animation:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIZmc4HgXkM


    Henry L.

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    1. Hello Henry!

      Are you going to build that gravity wheel using the water tube?

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    2. @Perpetualman

      No, for the immediate future I won't be building anything due to health problems.

      But that unusual hydraulic wheel design caught my eye when I saw it on youtube. If it worked it would be completely silent as it ran. I don't think it has anything to do with Bessler's wheels but it is interesting. One poster under the video said he tried it and it didn't work, but maybe his model was a mess for some reason. Maybe it can give some here ideas for possible future wheels to build.


      Henry L.

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  65. This design uses John's parametric oscillation principle(see "the mechanisms theoretically" besslerwheel.com c.2010 adding the additional swing diametrically opposite to the first swinger, mounted on a single crossbar!! WHY OH WHY did John abandon this wonderful concept??

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  66. Yellow wrote, "
    Do you really think Bessler used a couple of pendulums, levers, gears and got the result?"

    When the various BWs were being exibitted... Some people wondered like Yellow as above...
    But many more did believe bessler indeed was able to make a wheel spin using weights and levers...
    And even to this day skeptics exist...

    What we need to take into consideration is that the matter was inspected by eminent persons then and was finally cleared of such doubts...
    And, this fact should not be overlooked by us...

    If an additional force was really used then it couldn't have gone undetected, by any means...
    Even if some pre-stored energy was employed it couldn't have passed the two months test...

    Our general understanding of Bessler suggests that he was an honest man with a divine mission...
    He was God trusting...he even claimed to have obtained the idea through some divine intervention...
    This also goes to show that he was not cheating...

    The maid's testimony angle also does not speak of involvement of any additional force...
    If we take Karl's observation into consideration and his trust on bessler you won't notice anything that would indicate use of some additional force...
    Also, the available clues and bessler literature too don't indicate use of extra power source...

    Most of the post bessler researches till date largely focusses on how bessler managed to tap gravity by mechanical means against the accepted fact gravity force being conserved...
    And not exactly on trying to find out what other additional force was involved...
    We don't find any code or a clue suggesting use of an extra force...
    JC sir too has worked very hard and finally concludes it to be only gravity... though he hasn't succeeded in finding out that mechanical arrangement...
    All throughout his life bessler maintained that the weights were the important components in his wheels and this would only mean it's dependençe on gravity...
    If an additional force was used then there would have been telltale signs like sounds of gas release, exhaust gas, smells or even strange noises...

    Bessler tried to hide the wheel's interior view from public glare and could it have been for protecting the secret mechanism or some trickery?...
    Obviously, it was the unique mechanical arrangement...

    Coming to the ground realities... gravity is a natural force still not fully ascertained...
    Even experts are not in a position to say totally howg works... the very presence of matter or mass creates the gravity force but not fully explained... matter squeezes spacetime...
    But whatever it is we just can't undermine gravity...it creates tides...it keeps heavenly bodies in motion...and in cluster form...it can bring down a building, an aircraft in flight and even a spacecraft in orbit...

    The simple question is, can it not spin a simple wheel erected on a stand just a little above the ground?...

    It is just a matter of imbalancing a wheel...by ensuring that one side is always heavier than the other...which can be simply achieved by clever mechanical means...
    If this is so then why so many years have passed without someone coming up with a solution...

    It is because that solution or the mechanical arrangement is unique... only one of its kind... generally not used anywhere in the existing machinery... there's is just no reference point...
    It involves certain custom engineering of the wheel's internal components... nothing very sophisticated...
    And yes, bessler managed to make a stationary wheel to rotate non stop using just basic physics principles of lever advantages and laws of motion...

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    Replies
    1. Suresh stop babbling and download Algodoo. It will set you free and hopefully free us from you postings for a while.

      Delete
    2. Just found out the grid scale can be entered manually. I have set it to 400 for a grid size of 2.5 millimeter. I use molded lead as masses for my builds that are 2.5 cm in diameter. The radius is 12.5 mm which is 5 grids. I CAN simulate my builds. This is great. Just tried it with a pendulum of 95 mm. Works flawless.

      Delete
  67. I have been thinking. I do that a lot lately since corona, nothing much else to do. About Algodoo. It is a great learning tool for students trying to understand physics. If you get your hands around its interface you can build really nice simulations that mimic the real world. Of course it would be just rudimentary and nothing compared to wm2d.

    But, if Bessler’s secret is revealed we will know how to utilize the force of gravity to produce energy, just by using a simple mechanical principle. After the revelation it probably will be taught to students in school. Who can then learn and demonstrate this principle with, Algodoo. And why not? After all it is suposed to be simple.

    So, I am not done with Algodoo. I have found that the default grid size of 4 can be changed to up to a hundred. I have set it to twenty and that works fine (half cm). No, I cannot build the design I have on paper because it’s only 60cm diam. I have to think big and scale it up. So my Algodoo wheel will be 6 meter.

    Another video of my Algodoo work. It has five simple mechanisms and seem to match the anvil clue and a lot of other clues from the portrait that might not be immediately obvious to those who have not studied the portraits.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHwTgcScrEM

    I highly recommend everyone to give Algodoo a try. It's free!

    So for my next exercise I will choose a simple MT drawing. This is going be great fun. More than I thought at first sight.

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  68. Suresh wrote : "It is because that solution or the mechanical arrangement is unique... only one of its kind... generally not used anywhere in the existing machinery... there's is just no reference point...

    It involves certain custom engineering of the wheel's internal components... nothing very sophisticated...

    And yes, bessler managed to make a stationary wheel to rotate non stop using just basic physics principles of lever advantages and laws of motion..."

    That's what 90 percent (gravity enabled brigade) of Besslerites already believe to be the case.

    ReplyDelete
  69. JC sir,
    This blog has now been hit with Marinus Virus... he seems to be getting out of control with probably your tolerance...he has been lately bombarding us with his Algodo cartoons which can misguide or affect our mission adversely as you also strongly believe that bessler wheel mechanism is not possible through such simulations...
    Marinus is even trying to use obnoxious vocabulary in an otherwise Royal blog...
    In the wake of recent Yellow sir's challenge it is important we hurry and succeed at the earliest to prove him wrong...I have decided to take up the build and introduce the good news through your esteemed blog shortly...
    In this regard Marinus's actions may spoil the game...and, the way we have been communicating is going to be affected badly...as he is literally policing this blogsite... forgetting the fact that he is just another contributor...
    Kindly, look into the same...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I’m sure I never said that Bessler’s wheel was not possible through simulation, I just preferred to build that is all. If you are adept at simulation then go for it, and good luck.

      JC

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Facts not Fiction, will Show the Way to Bessler’s wheel.

It seems to me that people are getting sidetracked into looking for clues in places which are not genuinely repositories for clues actually ...