Saturday, 9 March 2013

Could two people simultaneously discover the solution to Bessler's wheel?


It's not that unlikely. In the 1870s, two inventors, Elisha Gray and Alexander Graham Bell, both independently designed devices that could transmit speech electrically, the telephone. Both men rushed their respective designs to the patent office within hours of each other, Alexander Graham Bell patented his telephone first. Elisha Gray and Alexander Graham Bell entered into a famous legal battle over the invention of the telephone, which Bell won.

I must make a correction to an incorrect fact in the above paragraph, thanks to Jon Hutton's timely message.

"Italy hailed the redress of a historic injustice yesterday after the US Congress recognised an impoverished Florentine immigrant as the inventor of the telephone rather than Alexander Graham Bell.

Historians and Italian-Americans won their battle to persuade Washington to recognise a little-known mechanical genius, Antonio Meucci, as a father of modern communications, 113 years after his death. 

The vote by the House of Representatives prompted joyous claims in Meucci's homeland that finally Bell had been outed as a perfidious Scot who found fortune and fame by stealing another man's work. 

Calling the Italian's career extraordinary and tragic, the resolution said his "teletrofono", demonstrated in New York in 1860, made him the inventor of the telephone in the place of Bell, who had access to Meucci's materials and who took out a patent 16 years later." 

As I said to Jon, let us hope we too can right a wrong from history and place Bessler where he should be, in the hall of famous inventors and not on a list of infamous fraudsters.

Then there was the case of Herbert E. Ives and Frank Gray of Bell Telephone Laboratories who gave a dramatic demonstration of mechanical television on April 7, 1927.  In the same year, 1927, John Logie Baird transmitted a signal over 438 miles of telephone line between London and Glasgow.

Even Sir Isaac Newton and Gottfried Leibniz became embroiled in an argument over who discovered calculus first.Even Sir Isaac Newton and Gottfried Leibniz became embroiled in an argument over who discovered calculus first.

If only one man ever discovered the secret and no one else in the subsequent 300 years has succeeded, why now - and why more than one person?  There is a concept known as multiple discovery.  It suggests that most scientific discoveries and inventions are made independently and more or less simultaneously by multiple scientists and inventors. This is the reverse of traditional view - the 'singleton' or 'heroic' theory. Historians and sociologists have remarked on the occurrence, in science, of these multiple independent discoveryies. Robert K. Merton defined such "multiples" as instances in which similar discoveries are made by scientists working independently of each other. "Sometimes the discoveries are simultaneous or almost so; sometimes a scientist will make a new discovery which, unknown to him, somebody else has made years before."

The various Nobel prizes awarded each year in each field of study comprise not just one winner but two or even three, often because more than one person may have made the same significant discovery at more or less the same time.

Generally one can see how this might happen.  A particular subject is usually chosen by an individual because it has some relevance at the time or place of the researcher.  And if more than one should choose this because the circumstances of choosing are similar, then the subject has probably been discussed in at least both those places and perhaps more widely discussed and possible avenues of progress explored.  It is  but a short step to two or more researchers following up the same clues and reaching the same conclusions independantly of each other.

We here in the Bessler field of research certainly share some of the same attributes mentioned above, I think therefore, there is a real chance of two or more people solving Bessler's wheel at the same moment.  So if I'm one of them, who else it nearly there?  :-)

JC

10a2c5d26e15f6g7h10ik12l3m6n14o14r5s17tu6v5w4y4-3,’.

129 comments:

  1. John, three minutes after posting means that the psychic link between two co-inventors travels at just over 1,000 miles per minute.

    Stephen (Stevo) Burke :)

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    1. Stevo you just got shafted, collins and his cronies didn't have a clue.
      That is until you fed them all the answers.
      Like I said, a bed and breakfast, run by wolves.

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    2. John has discovered nothing more than Jack Shit...

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  2. Yes,Me!,..I think I'm nearly there...LOL.

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    1. Trevor, the two way wheel still needs discovering, don't give up just yet.
      Sometimes you need to take a sideways look at things, before you discover their true meaning. :)

      Stephen Burke

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    2. There is absolutely no point in having a two way wheel when a one way wheel would suffice.
      If you want a reverse direction,turn the wheel around!
      Besides a properly built symetrical wheel is capable of going in both directions anyway.

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  3. Synchronicity is a very interesting topic and phenomenon indeed. Jung also noted it. Although there may be no hard causal connection, it is, according to him, more than mere coincidence. I do not claim to be close, but I do have observed -as so many here have- some very interesting phenomena. I wish I could dedicate more time to it. In fact, that is what I am planning to do in the near future.

    But whoever constructs a working gravity engine or converter (or whatever one wants to call it) first, as far as I am concerned it will always be called a Bessler-Collins type device. It was Bessler who came up with it at first, and it was John Collins who made an excellent case for Bessler and his invention to be the genuine article.

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  4. Haven't you been paying attention, christo4_99 already has the solution.

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    1. I know, it's obvious. His previous solution wasn't very effective, I believe. Nor was mine, I hasten to add. Temporis ars medicina fere est ;-)

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    2. Yes synchronicity, that's the word I was looking for! Thanks Andre. And thanks for the name suggestion, I'd be delighted if it was assumed.

      JC

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  5. The "Prime Mover" is the first discovery to be made. It is not just some simple arrangement of levers. It is a complete standalone mechanism, and it is the force behind the wheel. If you don't have this, you most certainly won't have a runner. Sorry guys, of this I am certain. For now, that is all I will add. Dismiss it if you will.

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    1. I already have the prime mover.
      It is referred to in the poem as,"the lively children".

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    2. @Anon, To the contrary, you are absolutely correct.
      @Trevor, can you tell some about it?

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    3. The "lively children" are simply the chaotic pendulums.

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    4. Hmmm, very interesting, Trevor. I was kind of hoping you would say something around those lines.

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    5. They are the only devices that do not sap energy from the wheel.

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    6. I disagree with every single sentance Anonymous that you posted.March 10 at 5:12 The part you are describing is not the prime mover, It has a diffent name according to Bessler. And if you do not know the correct name,I have my doubts that you know what it is. Remember Bessler stating to put the horse before the cart. and also his comment about stork bills for those who know how to use them.The codes in Besslers writing are more amazing that both Movies, National Treasure and Book of Secrets put together. More that half the battle is finding the codes. But if as most people think ,they come up with a genius idea ,eureka I've found the solution .There is probably 4 billion combinations of what you could design to go inside a gravity powered wheel if youare trying to guess the solution. I had to put that in as the Earth being 4 billion years old.Right. Best to try and decipher the codes .(Buy and study all of John Collins books for a second.).which as Bessler says takes a "discerning mind". BIBLEAL

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    7. @BIBLEAL

      I'm past the discovery phase or searching for clues. The mechanism I referred to in my original post could be used to shift weights in a Bessler type wheel, that is why I referred to it as a "prime mover". I don't claim to be anything near an expert on Bessler or know much of his writings, so call the mechanism what you want. What is important is I have the mechanism, and its capabilities go way beyond the use in something as simple as driving a wheel to create electricity. From everything I have read on all the PM forums, no one is even close to this idea, so maybe that means what I found is not the Bessler prime mover, I don't know, and I really don't care. The principle behind the mechanism will undoubtedly allow for many combinations of prime movers (or what ever you want to call it). Keep in mind that the mechanism I am referring to is NOT a wheel, it is a device that produces a force, and that force can be used in many ways as you can image.

      My point in sharing at this time is to let everyone know that the mechanism I found (if it is the Bessler mechanism) is simple in design, but it is not some simple arrangement of weights and levers, and you won't discover the underlying principle by tinkering with levers and springs in your OB wheel as TG often spoke of in his posts.

      The idea is nothing new and it is out there for anyone to seize.

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    8. "...chaotic pendulums..."

      Chaotic leaves me with the impression that they are not predictable or controllable, but I base this on the viewing of chaotic pendulum videos on YouTube.

      If your prime mover is based on or includes chaotic pendulums, and the prime mover is responsible for the lifting/resetting of weights at a precise time and place (such as when a weight is moving past the 12 o'clock position and is ready to be lifted), it will be interesting to see how this happens.

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    9. Everything you need is in MT.

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    10. Don't give too much significance to the phrase "harness the horse in front". If you take the time to study or better yet actually build MT20, you will find that the CoM moves to the ascending side of the wheel when the shifter weight falls. In the context that Bessler uses the phrase "harness the horse in front", he simply means to keep the CoM on the descending side of the wheel.

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    11. BIBLEAL,

      I believe you to be a religious man based on your comments on BW so I would like to share some of my story with you. The mechanism I mentioned above came from an early morning vision. Was I dreaming or just day dreaming - I don't know. However, I remember it very clearly. I was viewing a wheel design I had been working on and the idea popped in my head. That woke me up. The first thing I did was go straight to my office and do the math. No mistake about it. What I had seen was the prime mover (I know we differ on our definition of this term). I was very emotional for several days. What I still don't understand is why Bessler's largest wheel produced so little power. Either I have come up with a new type of PM or the materials Bessler had access to would not support any additional strain. I tell you that there is practically no limit to the power that can be produced and without such a large diameter wheel. The idea is so simple that if were to expand on it's capabilities any further, the principle behind the PM would be exposed, and I am not ready for that yet. Frankly I don't think the world is ready for it yet. I will disclose my name (blog ID at least) and more information very soon. I plan on placing a code the way John Collins does at the end of my comments. It will describe the prime mover in detail. I have not built a wheel yet as I am refining the PM device, and yes it does include a storks bill. Well that's all for now.

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  6. http://www.ourarchives.wikispaces.net/Cryptology-+Instruction+Book+on+the+Art+of+Secret+Writing%2C+1809
    german book on history of crypto/hidden writing from 1809.
    May help your unravelling John.
    regards
    Jon

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    1. John, quick question (not sure I already asked this): the coded sentence you include at the bottom of your posts - is that in German or in English?

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    2. Sorry for not replying sooner Andre - I missed your question. The sentence is in English.

      JC

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  7. As I have said before, I have the solution documented in detail proven through now very refined decoded material. My first video-trailer for interested publishers was finished today. The rest of the video material (about 1 hour) are not perfectly refined for public display.

    There is a lot of work making the material "clean" and understandable, so it can can be understood and aprechiated by "normal" people watching or producing TV. I want the physical wheel finished and the decoded material ready to be published at aprox. the same time. There are no wondering if the principle works or not. Neither are there room for speculation in refference to Besslers written material and his codes. I am also in discussion with a passionate builder about joining the project.

    If you have to speculate you are not there yet.

    In proper time and setting, all will be revealed!

    I will also mention here in public that I have aproached you John about letting you get familiar with the decoding-material, but since it is revealing the true mechanism in detail, I am working on an NDA and still evaluation if it is a smart thing for me to do..

    But again, if you have the solution, it must be the same as mine, because I can prove in detail it was Besslers principle :-)

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    1. Wow. It seems like we all went thru that stage at some time: it will turn - no doubt - theory is flawless. Then we build.... and oops. Speak to you about that after you have built. What a shame to waste so much effort on filming...
      ;-)

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    2. Oystein, what do you mean by " My first video-trailer for interested publishers was finished today." Who would be the interested publishers? Do you mean a T.V. station? For when you have produced a working wheel?

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    3. By videotrailer I mean a short video (5 minutes), describing, the background story, showing some basic graphic examples of how Bessler coded his work, and also raising some questions that I do not finnish in that video, but to tease the quriosity. Then I can show this if/when I talk to interested people, interested in publishing a documentary or even working together on a practical project. It may be a person with mechaniscal resources, journalistic resources or a documentary company etc. I would like somebody to get interested in the historical aspect of the story, the papers and the decoding, paralell to a buildingproject. Even if the wheel is buildt wrong, the decoding stays correct and many people would want to see the beatuy of Besslers intellect, the way he put it into his writings. Even as a "Part 1"

      With a working wheel, everybody would be all over the place, and I fear that it would be hard form me sitting down for months and finishing this decoding-material afterwards.

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  8. Thanks Øystein, for publicising that you've approached me and I look forward to signing your NDA - and even more to see what you have decoded. What you have already shown me convinces me that you have found the right way to decipher Bessler's material.

    JC

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    1. Thank you John for confirming that. What I have found is so detailed, consistant and intelligent that my conclusion is that either Bessler used enourmous resorces (must have been occupying several years of his life) to hide a mechanismm that don`t work or a mechanism that work, if applied the right way. The inteligence and work he put down to hide something can easily be proven. I also must thank you John again, because several of your code-ideas has put my focus on the right path!

      I chose to stop working on my own theories and machines after about 15 years of research, and started working on pure decoding of Besslers work for two reasons: Firstly Because I believe he could not have been a fraud and secondly because he said that it is ONLY ONE principle that can work. Therefore the chances to discover PM is must be better if I focus only on decoding. At the same time I then have a chance to vindicate Bessler because a coding/decoding can by defenition be proven.

      BUT! I don`t think it would be possible to decode all the way without a deep understanding of a working PM principle, because you would not know if the connectionpoints on a mechanism is fixed to the background or just joint on the mechanism etc. And you would not know when you are finnished, if you can`t grasp the workings of the mechanism.

      I don`t regret that I chose that path at all Mimi.

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    2. That sounds extremely exciting, Oystein. I'm sure we all look very much forward to see what you have found out. Sounds like excellent work to me!

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    3. No, it's discouraging! Oystein is being yet another idiot jumping to conclusions before building something. Why do you all put up with it so readily?

      Why can't he just build the damn thing first? It won't go anywhere if it works, then he can work on videos, etc. while it keeps turning.

      And then there is the classic telling people how 110% sure he is!

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    4. Thank you for your kind encouraging words mr Anonymous.
      Refining my material now, when it is fresh in mind, don`t seem like a bad idea to me.
      Neither making trailer and info. material and get in touch with people. All is a long process, and all should work on what they are best at!
      I have several thoughts in my mind, and so should you.
      And these processes force you to focus, and now and then some new small insights appear as you put things down graphically. Not at all wasted time I assure you.
      I think Besslers work (what is left now is his papers) should be treated with respect, and he deserves to get it revealed in a proper manner, as it also uncover a part of his intellect.

      I am also pretty shure that I would have neither time nor focus to do the proper decodingwork, if I had run off and buildt something every time I thought I had something. So again, I don`t regret finnishing one thing at a time.


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    5. If you have't built yet then you are not there yet.

      "Finish one thing at a time"? Classic! You haven't finished anything yet. If you "finish" videos and writing and then build your design, only to find that it doesn't work and that it still needs something else to make it work (and don't tell me it can't and won't happen) then all that you have "finished" before will be invalid until, and if, you do get a working design.

      You'd better have decoded actual sentences describing construction details, because if it is more fives and pentagrams and anything else like that, be prepared for some major ridiculing!

      If doing what you are best at is not building even a simple design, then you'd better wait to find that person to help you find out whether you really do have something first, before basking in the glory of being the person to have solved it!

      Don't get me wrong, if you do end up having something then great, but you don't have to decode anything to understand what Bessler meant by "harness the horse in front"!

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    6. Sounds like you really have solved this ;-)

      So to harness the horse in front is all that we need?

      That statement is what it is, Orffyreus can´t lie as he wrote.

      But wouldn`t you like to know the mechanisms used for harnessing the mentioned horse?

      Since you are so negative to believing that Bessler patented his device in public (as he wrote...and he can´t lie), you obviously have not understood how (geometrical and letter/number) coding was done back then, and how accepted is was among the educated and the secret orders etc.

      I have no haste showing this resault to an anonymous blogposter, but I am evaluation the process of showing this to John in company with a "non disclosure agreement" as mentioned.

      As stated, I think it is better to do somethinh thorough than jumping from here to there (for example using the vital time building unworkable devices).
      At least I can prove how Bessler coded his material, and I mean prove!
      Who has gotten further in vindicating Bessler today?
      So by defenition of proving the excistence of coding in Besslers work, I am there!
      Also proving how he coded, I am there.
      Building the decoded device, I am not there yet, that is correct, and I have never said anything else.

      I may ask, who believes he left coded material and who believes he did not?
      And what did he mean when he said that he would patent his device through public writing/drawings in 1717 ?

      This is more interesting to discuss than somebody believing in me or not. Please debate that, rather than my reply to John, (when he asked, "who else is nearly there")

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    8. HI Øystein

      I have no doubt in my mind at all that Bessler has left many clues in his documents, your description of his clues as consistant and intelligent are unmistakable, once you start finding the clues there is a clear direction to them and he repeats certain details many times. The problem I have found so far is finding the connection between these various numbers and geometric shapes that appear again and again.

      Anyway at least one more person myself needs little convincing that there are clues they are real and they were left there on purpose but when Bessler said "this is a tough nut to crack" he was not kidding :-)

      Best Regards and good luck

      Terry

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    9. Look forward to signing some nice big fat checks he's about to ask you for as well, just so he can 'finish his project'.

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    10. What makes people write such things? Extremly anoying for people who do do what they can to be fair and just. What would I do with other peoples money? (I have my own business and live well.) Live in shame the rest of my days? Ask John what I wrote to him in private. I wrote:I would never ask anybody for money, but rather let people who deserves it be a part of something for free. Only then can people work together as equals and get things done.

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    11. Oystein, (sorry, don't know how to do the /)

      It's all to do with jealousy, be careful, remember the line,
      He will drench me with his spittle so that I will lose my temper and in a sudden fit, cast aside the mantle that conceals my wheel.

      Stephen Burke

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  9. "Could two people will simultaneously"

    Epic fail.
    Don't you even read the titles when you write them, John?

    Can has cheezeburger?

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  10. THanks anon for pointing that out! I need a proof reader I guess - you just nominated yourself :-)

    JC

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    1. Nobody else noticed it either, so you're not the only one.

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  11. I also think I am at last getting some traction on this most intractable problem, although I think it will take at least a year under best-case conditions; maybe several years in the worst case, before I would have a working wheel.

    When I reported a net energy gain in the last comments, I'm sure nearly everyone will have thought I just made a modelling error, and if so, I have no problem with that for now.

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    1. For what it is worth, I don't, Arktos. From what I know of it, I regard your work and insights very highly.

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    2. Thanks, Andre, for your encouraging comment! I hope I can live up to it.

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  12. When can we really expect a turning wheel???
    Well, maybe a year or two after, most probably...I don't see anything forth coming in the near future...we still need to perform a lot of brain work, in the meanwhile...Understanding the codes is one thing and trying to figure it out practically is quite another...The shape,weight and different sizes of the components is one thing which a code may not be able to provide...and how do we expect to go about it...If everything was hidden in a code the wheel would have been built by now...even simulations have proved to be futile so far as we can see...I have a feeling that, at the moment, no single person has all the clues....Trevor may have one or two and similarly TG and so on...one possibility would be to pool up and collate...but the procedures and conditions may not be fair enough and agreeable to all the concerned as there would be a question of who would get the lion's share...the other thing would be to wait for the right tide to arrive...

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    1. Nice to see you back again, Suresh. Hope you are well! And yes, you are right, a lot needs to be done. But something tells me a lot of people are getting close. Real close.

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    2. It may appear so, Andre sir...the wheel still eludes us all as before...I have already stated many times before that it gets all the more complicated through modern methods...
      The constant failure results of many is proof of it...people keep waiting for clues to appear rather than to make one's own mental efforts...I mean looking in the wrong place in a wrong way…Even if the decoding is a success how is it going to be interfaced with the actual build?...
      There are too many distractions and one is simply not able to allocate all the attention that is required in the serious research...The secret internal mechanism can be mentally realized...just deep natural imagination is essential...but who listens...We have seen many years just go by without the wheels secret being unveiled ...I have observed right here in this blog that some precious clues do make an occasional appearance but most of us fail to spot it...The right time hasn’t arrived at…
      TG had some clues but he over did it…didn’t listen to anyone when asked to shorten his narrations…but we do need him in this epic research…we should give him a last chance…I learnt so many new things from him…
      We need to appreciate everyone's contribution taking note of the positive leaving the negative...
      Thanks for remembering me..I was sick first…then became jobless with no support…but now the health has returned to normal…I should be able to get normal again soon…Bessler too faced such crises and survival threats…one day I would also like to convey the good news to you like Oystein, in case it still remains to be discovered then…We should solve the Bessler puzzle in this life time itself…

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    3. Good to hear you are in good health again, Suresh. Keep the faith - what else one do than to keep the faith and keep doing some "background processing" on Besslers clues and hints while trying to live a decent and productive life. For me, the "phenomenon" of Bessler is a genuine fascination, especially because of the seeming "modern" impossibility, but not an obsession. A bit like a programmer would approach a at first seemingly impossible task - keep plugging at it and find ways; ways to do things from a different angle while keeping the desired end-result in mind. Admittedly the result of often something like a "horse by committee" design, you know, more resembling a cross between camel and a hippopotamus (lots of noise and humps and horns) and hence not too effective but it is great mental fun.

      Besslers puzzle (or is it "puzzling Bessler") will be solved, I really think it will be, eventually. If he could do it in his time, surely some should be able to generate that same flash of enlightenment. Keep the faith! :-)

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    4. Your journey has just begun!

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  13. I can explain to you how the perpetual motion wheel works logically but then you will say to me prove it mechanically.
    That I can also do but it takes a bit of time to engineer.
    I don't mind giving away the secret because to accomplish the engineering is no mean task.

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    1. Trevor...the mechanics is supposed to be very simple....that is why bessler was always worried...I am unable to understand why you are not getting the success...

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    2. E=MC2 is also simple, once it is found and understood. It's the "simpleness" that is making it puzzling. Just my 2 cents...

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  14. A code can be so many things. I know John is looking for a text-code, and I guess Bessler had a few of them, but I don`t see how to explain a mechanical principle by text-codes very good.
    Often phonetic coding has been used by other writers. The reason for this is to have a larger possible number of letters to play with. Like we can find in Besslers work: 16 gevect (innvendig).
    But I will not use that kind of resault becuse we can not be shure if it is phonetic substite for gewicht or just a coincidence (Even if it is correct for the two way wheels)
    Geometric coding on the other hand may be used to pinpoint arms and connectionpoints without interpretation. In my work I have tried to avoid interpretations. So I can then make measurements of the parts down to about closest centimetre, because an X from a geometric/mathematical figure is an excact physical and mathematical position in relation to another point!

    Good luck to you all!

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    1. I agree,..Codes can be excitingly mysterious and intreging but but how they can relate to a mechanical configuration is beyond me.
      No offense intended John

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  15. From another Norwegian "decoder":
    Here is one way to use a Pentagram/pentagon. Crossingpoints marking vital information. http://politiken.dk/kultur/boger/skonlitteratur_boger/ECE1057330/nordmand-finder-hemmelige-koder-hos-shakespeare/

    This is from Shakespears (or shaksper that was his real name) memory plate in the church at stratford upon aven. And very important: If you read (c)ost sieh in the midle. (sieh is not a correct english word) but reading backwards: Heist so (German for "name is") and Pentagon marking B A C O N This with another place finding Rosie Cross in another triangleformation are yet another way to find text from geometrical decoding. Some of this relates to Besslers way of coding.

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    1. And the line above reads: IDE WHOSE or WHOSE IDE

      And he suggests the whole thing says:

      Whose ide`
      Heist so
      BACON

      Bacon, master rosiecrucian leading a team of rosiecrucians writing under the name: Shake-Speare and paying Shaksper to use the pseudonym.

      I am just reffering to a story, and have not decided where I stand, but his research has a lot to tecah us when searching for codes!

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    2. It's great you think you have found the necessary clues to recreate Bessler's wheel. Before going to far with expenses and public disclosures, I would create a runner to make sure you haven't fallen into a trap set by Bessler. Just a thought.

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  16. of course ASAP, but its cold in Norway now, snow outside, and only a small shed avail. after we moved with - 10 degrees f. at the moment. If not teaming up with a builder by May. I will build myself.

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    1. Come on 0ystein, how could you not want to build yourself and feel the gratification of finally solving the biggest mystery in 300 years. You may have broken the code, but to finish the wheel and give it a turn, and see it start revolving under it's own power, wow. And you would be throwing all that away. This is a once in a lifetime event. Once you give that away, it's gone.

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  17. While I prefer a good hunt (or in this case) solving a good mystery, I would rather discover the principle of motive force myself. That way I can say I achieved PM. I guess it all depends on what you want out of the quest.

    Good luck 0ystein, sounds like you have something there.

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  18. Well done Oystein - finally someone has found a substantial crack in Bessler's defenses that can refine the search target for the correct mechanism - your logic & analytical deductions will pave the way & will in time help others zero in on a likely mechanism or area of physics to carefully examine - not before time so cudos to you.

    -fletcher

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  19. Well lets hope the Bessler wheel of the 21st century can produce a lot more energy with a much smaller size than the original, otherwise it may end up being the next big thing to flop. That is unless your community rules allow 2 story ferris wheels rolling around your backyard.

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  20. 0ystein,

    Do you give any credence to the idea of clues being hidden in the DT portraits?

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    1. Yes, the same method is applied to the portraits. But they are best solved when mixing the pictures. Some parts from both pictures need to be in the same picture (like viewing pages on top of eachother into the light) John presents one (of many) of the clues on his webpage.

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    2. That said, the portraits are the last challenge you should work on, because you will have to know from solving other drawings, how to work. It is not solved first!

      Delete
  21. Collins said 'I think therefore, there is a real chance of two or more people solving Bessler's wheel at the same moment. So if I'm one of them, who else it nearly there?'

    Tg (='technoguy' for newcomers) said he was one of about only a halve dozen researchers on the planet he knew that were applying dt portrait clues to thier wheel designs. He also said that he was in the middle of this pack with some behind him and some ahead. Most likely the solution will come from one of them and will come this year. He suggests in past posts they know each other but have limits on what they are willing to share with each other (sort of like most of the wheel builders that post on the web). Someone else may some day come up with a working pm wheel but if it does not use the portrait clues then it won't be Bessler's but would be nice anyway.

    mike

    ReplyDelete
  22. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Wow, come back in a day and 63 messages are built up already! And so many people having the solution locked up? We should have something in no time then!

    ;-)

    I agree with some of what the anons wrote about Øystein's comments (and John's about the NDA for that matter...don't do it!).

    All I would add is to please think about how you would leave this subject of PM research for the next person. If, in the unlikely case, you don't have anything real from all this coded stuff, but you approach documenters, builders, investors, etc., please HAVE something working when you do. Because, I hope you realize the state of affairs afterwards if you don't will be tainted that much more for the next person who comes along, and this compounding negative exposure is probably the biggest reason more are not researching this subject now.

    I hope this makes a lick of sense?

    -Ed

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. If there are blueprints or written instructions for the wheel encoded in Bessler's writings, I hope that they are not complete, and require some level of intuition (as with MT) to complete the project. Otherwise, all you are really doing is breaking into a safe and finding the design. You can't really say you solved anything can you.

      Delete
    2. This sounds like something Ealadha would say. Come on, why waste years and money trying to invent when we have the information hidden right in front of us. This isn't about some scientific or engineering feat, or having bragging rights to discovering something that can't be done, its about finding and profiting from perpetual motion. Hey breaking a code is no small feat. Leave the inventing to the geeks, I'll take the profit anytime.

      Delete
  24. Makes perfect sense to me, Ed.

    JC

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Just want to say that you guys are really good at blowing things out of proportions. What a shock for me to read all this. For example investors... where would anybody get that from? I am trying to coorporate with interested honest people to join forces (because of lack of available time), and maybe get some Journalists to look at the material from a documentary point of view. This is far from what you guys are depicting here.

      If this is common understanding of me, and if this is your view also John, please let me know if I should keep in touch or not.

      Delete
    2. Øystein, I was not saying YOU are getting Investors involved, I was speaking more generally about anyone in your situation.

      Please try to extrapolate the following to your specific situation.

      What I think others are trying to say, and why some might get very defensive, is that they are invested in PM research, whether Bessler specifically or some other form of PM, and it already is viewed as impossible and anyone that gets into it is a crackpot. So, the more people who claim publicly to have something but do not have the proof, the more those public figures (the media, journalists, documenters, investors, scientists, teachers, etc.) will be put off.

      This, in turn, hurts the prospects of others who come later, being able to even approach these same public entities, because they will now be soured from their previous experiences with individuals that didn't follow through with their claims.

      Bessler is already thought of as a fraud by many people, to this day. Claiming to have codes that aren't proven to bring about anything could make Bessler and anyone who researches him seem even more "crackpotty" by these public people.

      Obviously, I don't know what your decoding looks like Øystein, but based on things you have said I would venture to guess that it doesn't just spell out a design, especially to the uninitiated. Correct? Meaning if you start rattling off pentagram this and geometry that, public people like the ones mentioned (i.e. journalists) might tend to shy away pretty quickly because they have their own reputation to think about.

      If you really can prove you have a decoding that spells out how to make something work, then great, but I ask that you please think about other fellow PM (and Bessler) researchers before rushing out to a public figure with data that is, how shall I say it?....less than tangible.

      -Ed

      Delete
    3. Lemme see ... " I have the correct principle and mountains of information on the construction of the wheel ... but I'm taking my sweet time building it " ... seems to be the message , and ... " for all practical purposes , most of us will still be obsessive crackpots after this things is finished , albeit PROUD... obsessive crackpots " ...
      CW

      Delete
    4. CW said
      "I have the correct principle and mountains of information on the construction of the wheel".

      "Mountains of information on the construction of the wheel" you say? I thought this was your idea, not someone else's. Doing a bit of plagiarizing are we CW.

      "Sweet time building it ...". I guess this means it's going badly.

      Delete
    5. I was stating the general consensus concerning wheel builders around here . It's not an idea , btw , by now it's an actual machine . You're a punk ... who doesn't sign his name to anything he says . How's your build going ?
      CW

      Delete
    6. Based on your past methodology of posting across the forums, if you had a runner, everyone would know. You don't have a runner.

      Delete
    7. Oops, I just got it. Yikes, I am a punk. Damn, I hate when that happens.

      Delete
  25. Here's one for all the "professional code breakers".
    John left a big clue at the end of his article and you didn't even notice it!
    When did John ever use :-) at the end of any postings ?

    Stephen (Stevo) Burke

    ReplyDelete
  26. Your discernment has served you well.
    For within the decipherment of my message lies the secret of my wheel's construction.
    In the event of my untimely passing, I have prepared an abundance of manuscripts,
    each of which contains but two distinct revelations.
    An articifer of exceptional skill is all that is required to execute it's manufacture.
    I list the aforementioned revelations as follows...........

    More to come, once my BS2000 Hyperdecription Device is repaired.

    Stephen (Stevo) Burke

    ReplyDelete
  27. If you're going to assume someone else's on-line identity, at least get the name right.
    It's "Steve-o", not Stevo.
    :-D

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Check my other postings.

      Stevo

      Delete
    2. Guys knock it off.

      Steveo

      Delete
    3. Stevo, is short for Stephen, Steve-O, is short for a name like Stephen Orwell,
      sorry for any confusion.

      Stevo (since 1982) Burke

      Delete
  28. Never mind the codes,..Why is it that when someone offers a logic explanation as the how the wheel works,..everybody goes quiet.
    Could it be that they would rather be the first to discover it?
    Could be that people don't want the answer because they enjoy the mystery and conjecture?
    Perthaps when a working wheel is found,it should remain a mystery. It's simple mechanics would be so deflationary that it would cause a void,seeing that the one great mystery of this modern age had been finally solved.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Trevor, I agree completely, that's why I post my ideas.
      Maybe they're wrong, but just one small detail might be what someone else is looking for.

      Delete
  29. Who wouldn't want to be the first to discover?
    But what I feel is no one has really given complete descriptions so far, not even Bessler...
    Another thing is people have grown tired of listening to it so many times, without any results...it just makes them sick...

    The general public usually don't show any interest because it is either they find it unbelievable or they just think that we must be out of our minds as it is too unconventional...This has been happening since even before Bessler times...

    God doesn't wants certain things to happen prematurely...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I don't agree Suresh,..God wants only good for us and the world is now really under pressure for clean energy.

      Delete
  30. You are right…that is why so much activity one can see these days…But it is still a year or two away…
    But who is ready with the complete build?...There is something mysterious or just ill luck surrounding this topic…Bessler bore the brunt of it after constructing the wheel successfully…See it was n’t stolen or the secret wasn’t given away by Bessler…The wheel disappeared mysteriously as it had arrived…

    ReplyDelete
  31. I believe it is there to be had.It just takes a conserted engineering effort to put the right mechanisms in place to make it work.
    It is involved but simple overall.
    I offered to explain it but you seerm to have missed my post.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I agree with you...it is a matter of putting up the mechanics...what I was insisting was the luck factor...why didn't bessler succeed in convincing everyone?...

      I didn't miss your post, Trevor...In fact, I was thinking how to know it from you without endangering your hard earned secret...Anyway, give me an indirect clue which would explain your principle keeping the confidentiality...

      Delete
    2. Well,here goes,..As I said before I don't mind giving the secret away because it is going to take an expert to engineer and considerable ammount of time to interface the component parts.
      If you know how a self-winding watch works,keep that in mind.
      A wheel is the perfect invironment for that principle to work.
      It has movement from side to side and also up and down.
      If you have free pendulums in a revolving wheel they start to swing more and more.
      They eventually become so lively they revolve first this way and that.
      All this movement does not in any way have the slightest effect on the torque of the wheel.
      That means it is free.
      Now if we can capture this energy in the same way as a self winding watch and release it at the apex by means of a spring to lift the weights they will overbalance the wheel to do useful work.
      That's it!.. in a nutshell but just remember I said it first.
      Why is it taking so long?..well ask yourself,how long did it take for the simple self-winding watch to evolve?..simply ages.

      Delete
    3. Self winding watches are wound by arm movement, they run down if you don't wear them. You could get a sensitive wheel pendulum to similarly capture an external motion, but it has to be external to run on the same principle.

      Delete
    4. Sorry,but the wheel is itself the external motion because it oscillates the weights as it turns through over balancing.

      Delete
    5. Trevor, if I understand you correctly, your idea is not too dissimilar to the one I suggested, I really must be psychic!
      I've seen those "Thor's Hammer" pendulums swinging like crazy, and for a very long time.
      If all that activity can be harvested, as you say in a spring, short pulses over a period of time, (like an air receiver stores pulsed air from a compressor) I don't see why it cannot be released in one quick burst, to move a weight over the apex, and the resulting movement of the wheel then "nudges" the pendulums to make them swing vigourously again.

      May not be Bessler, may not be elegant, but as proof that gravity alone can turn a wheel, go for it!

      Stephen Burke

      Delete
  32. Trevor...sorry, I had been out job hunting today...I will reply later tonight....

    ReplyDelete
  33. Trevor…you had stated the same many times before but briefly…I already had an idea of this from your earlier descriptions about active weights, children playing among pillars, etc.,…
    Your main principle is right; I must admit that…But let me tell you I can see a lot of difference when compared to what I could understand of the actual bessler wheel internal mechanism...if you pursue with this mechanism I am afraid you will never reach the success point… this is the same mistake everyone is making and this explains the failures…
    I have a feeling that from the start you are on a track which is enormously different from that of Bessler’s…
    We really need not capture the energy with springs, etc., in fact, it is a direct drive…
    They need not revolve this way or that…or the weights required to be lifted…they just swing from the center to the rim and at 6pm position some change happens and the weights really don’t have to climb till 7pm position; but take a short cut instead and start the swing all over again…they (weights) don’t change directions, as far as they are concerned…Bessler has used gravity in such a way that it replaces the springs…springs are required to aid the swing speed…
    Everything happens so naturally and things are entirely different from what you have stated…
    So, to conclude, you have not given away any secret…you may remain rest assured of this…I must thank you again and again for your trust...
    Secondly, it is good that you have confided with us now…never mistake me or get disheartened…I tried to draw your attention many times in the past… but you have been too excited to listen to anyone which you may not realize…it is not entirely your fault either…you have not lost anything now…it is not even too late…your conviction is good… it is just that you need to start everything all over again…you need to redesign your prime mover, which, let me remind you is supposed to be as grand as a peacock’s tail…

    ReplyDelete
  34. In part, Trevor Dauncey has thusly advised us

    * * * * *
    "Now if we can capture this energy in the same way as a self winding watch and release it at the apex by means of a spring to lift the weights they will overbalance the wheel to do useful work."
    * * * * *

    Yes, "if".

    Efficient, instantaneous transfer of momentum (coincidentally or serially) between perfectly inelastic bodies, may not be effected. For this trick, some bit of time is required.

    (Observe the circumstance engendered when any two swinging bodies of a Newton's Cradle collide. This is inefficient exchange of the two momenta, each to the other. In it energy is lost as dispersed heat and sound, measurable in degrees and acoustic milliwatts. Within Bessler Wheels, things, things and things must be done better.)

    Near instantaneous: yes!

    Instantaneous: no!

    This problem as solved IS KEY to success, for any that may have finally achieved, as Trevor Dauncey has described.

    Also, as for horses and carts as first mentioned by Johann (and now as popularly and amusingly elaborated upon by others) if finally having built the cart and then bought the just-right horse for it, the horse must first be FED good hay. Without this feeding, not the cart nor the horse itself will be going anywhere! (The third factor in any completed equation, to-purpose left out by Johann, doubtless-so.)

    Now . . .

    As much as I hate to do-so regarding the assertion of the anonymous and now gloriously discredited and excommunicated "TG" of-late, to the effect that the various of engravings of Johann as seen within his native environment are fully bristling with clues, I must underscore THE ACTUAL TRUTH of it, even if with such reticence as the case surely is.

    Those portraits seethingly BOIL with interlocking arithmetical and geometrical confirmations, 'though ones meant only to be affirmative after-the-fact of having first discovered their truth. He did not intend to instruct any, in the building of motions of perpetua. (Could any other thing be possibly more obvious???)

    (Just as it must be with horses and carts: First-things-first, and THEN the other.)

    And, as for "springs" proposed by some to be used for storage and release of force (not momentum) - beware! Here by necessity always, TIME is of the purest essence; lose much of it and the game is to be lost.

    Incidentally, just HOW dead must a horse be before the beating of the poor thing is finally abandoned? (Solve this one, and surely we'll have our lovely moto perpetuo?)

    Ciao!

    James







    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. James, just as a point of amusing interest, a horse actually pushes a cart.
      It pushes against the collar around it's neck and shoulders!

      Delete
    2. James, I think I'm reading you right, and of course I cannot speak for Trevor.
      I was thinking of something a bit more "notchy".
      Lots of flailing around while winding the spring, then POW!, the tension is released to catapult the small weight at the NW position (compass points correspond better) over the apex, the lifting of the weight causes the wheel to try and balance itself.
      It's this movement of the heavier wheel that nudges the flailing pendulum, setting it off again.
      Like I say, very "notchy", what I think you are describing is a nice smooth action.
      Way back, I posted a design using a Milkovic Oscillator, using a similar principle, the oscillator being a bit more predictable.
      I guess that was too heretical :-D.

      Delete
  35. In keeping with John's Blog title, a quick slideshow appeared today at Fox News:

    "Coincidence? The 9 craziest cases of simultaneous invention"

    http://www.foxnews.com/science/slideshow/2013/03/13/coincidence-craziest-cases-simultaneous-invention/#slide=1

    Take care, everyone.

    Hutch

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I just love coincidences! They make you think there is some underlying purpose in all this. Thanks Hutch.

      JC

      Delete
  36. Guy!,..To describe something in a nutshell is very inadequate to convey where I've been and what has been discovered.
    Let me just mention two aspects;..the principle of a pendulum weight that is on a rigid connecting tie to the fulcrum center as against the non rigid tie of gravity on a heavenly body.
    With the rigid tie any microscopic revolution of the fulcrum causes a powerful revolution of the weight,a property that has not been fully exploited.
    This is why John's analogy of a swing is so relevant.
    As regard to the time to load a spring,..no problem.
    Each time a weight is lifted,you have 360 degrees of period to load a short spring with tension to load the next weight.
    When I get critism from the honerable gentlemen I can straight-way discern whether or not these are armchair critics or not.

    ReplyDelete
  37. A lot more than that is reqd to constitute Bessler PM...Trevor...

    We will discuss later...my battery is down....

    ReplyDelete
  38. Looks like 'Oystein' is getting whipped hard for even daring to suggest he's found some answers to the Bessler wheel secret even before he's revealed anything! We've seen this treatment before on tg ('technoguy') and anyone else coming here to say they've found anything important about the wheels insides will get the same treatment because this blog is no longer really about solving the besselr wheel mystery. This was obvious to me after tg's departure on jan 8th this year. I now believe there is actually a sort of loose conspiracy of burned out wheel builders out there who have decided that although Bessler did really make pm and since they were not able to also quickly do it even though they think they are geniuses then no one else will ever be able to do it either. Anyone who claims to be able to do it or know how it was done will be immediately attacked usually anonymously by them, ridculed, insulted, and finally silenced they hope. Sometimes they'll send in a troll or two to do the dirty work for them. I call these losers the 'Ignorami' (the opposite of 'Illuminati') because they really hope the Bessler wheel is never solved since they were not able to do it! If that ever happened then they would have to admit that theyre not as smart as they like to make poeple believe. Unfortunately they've already taken over this blog and will any blog or site where they can get a foothold. Newcomers should consider this before revealing anything serious here!

    Does 'Oystein' have anything real? I don't know. He could just be another deluded wheel builder seeing apophenia 'clues' in every squiggle of Bessler's writing and suffering from 'eureka-itis' and will have his moment in the spot light before disappearing for a while. But if his 'decoding' does not involve the dt portraits then I would tend to have major doubts about it being real even though he has not revealed anything yet. Regardless I wish him the best of luck because with tg gone this blog sorely needs another serious researcher to stop its slow slide into the hole in the ground waiting for it over at the very crowded internet graveyard for boring and irrelavant blogs and sites!

    mike

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. So it is ok for you to judge øystein's posts, but if someone else talks to him, suddenly he's being whipped?

      Ken (aka TG, mike), you are a 'Screw Loosen' (the opposite of a 'Free Masen') because no matter what anyone says (even the owner of this blog) you are just going to come in here and complain about yourself not being able to post nonsense as TG. And even that is wrong, John only wanted you to cut down your lengthy, self-indulgent comments.

      mike is an attention-seeking parasite and I will no longer feed him.

      -Ed

      Delete
    2. mike said:
      "Does 'Oystein' have anything real? I don't know. He could just be another deluded wheel builder seeing apophenia 'clues' in every squiggle of Bessler's writing and suffering from 'eureka-itis' and will have his moment in the spot light before disappearing for a while".

      Hmmmmm, another deluded wheel builder seeing apophenia 'clues' in every squiggle of Bessler's writing...". Now what was the name of that deluded wheel builder that made no progress when he was here? Let me think. Oh I know, TG.

      Delete
    3. Ed said 'mike is an attention-seeking parasite and I will no longer feed him.'

      The real 'parasites' on free energy and pm blogs and sites are the burned out ex wheel builders ('Ignorami') hiding in the shadows who don't think Bessler's wheels will ever be solved since they did not do it first. They 'feed' their shriveled egos by insulting anyone who even shows any enthusiasm for the subject like Oystein recently did and tg did up to Jan 8 of this year. They take sadistic delight in being able to discourage and drive 'serious' wheel researchers away whenever they can get away with doing it. They are actually psychic parasites or vampires that will suck the life out of blogs like this if they get a chance. They don't want the wheel solved ever and make no mistake about it they are controlling this blog not Collins! When this blog is finally shut down (I still estimate burial around June this year) it won't be tg's or Collins fault but the wreck it was turned into by these losers. Soon they will be targeting me with troll attacks and anonymous insults and again using a 'blitz' of complaining emails trying to get Collins to make me feel 'unwelcome' here as they got him to do with tg back in Jan. If he goes along with them again it will just prove everything I'm saying.

      If by the second part of your quote you mean you will no longer insult me and others anonymously or nonymously then great! That would help increase my respect for you a notch.

      The important thing to know about the 'Ignorami' is that individually them are insignifcant but they can gain a lot of power by joining forces. By doing that they can alter poll results, jack up each others 'reputations' on blogs and sites with that feature, and even convince a blog or site owner with closely spaced emails that a certain poster is the cause of all his problems and driving people away as they also threaten to depart and leave the site flat. Once this blog is buried they will consider it a happy victory and move on to some other blog to look for new victims. I considre them the biggest obstacle to progress with Bessler's wheels and not that wornout nonsense about oil industry and 'big' government agents dropping in on pm researchers in the middle of the night by black helicopter. The 'Ignorami' could care less about Besslers wheel. In fact they could care less about Collins and his research. They accept him as a Besselr biographer and nothing more.

      Thats enough 'entertaining banter' from me for this week.

      mike

      Delete
    4. mike, are you losing your mind, or are you just stupid? I am going to explain this to you one more time, and then I'm going to hang up on you.

      YOU are the troll.

      To illustrate how dense you are, by "feed" i mean give you any more attention by responding to your retarded posts!

      Nobody cares about your respect and I have no need to post anonymously (talk about black helicopters!) since I have no problem insulting you directly!

      You are right about one thing, this blog will die if John doesn't do something about YOU. No one would blame him (except the next mike) if he deletes your comments along with the spam, since they are equivalent.

      -Ed

      Delete
    5. Ed you flatter yourself by thinking that I would even want any of your 'attention'! I'm starting to think that you are not a true member of the 'Ignorami' but only without realizing it making it easier for them to destroy this blog by constantly attacking me! Think of me as the crack in the wall that lets reality show through. They want to hide that crack at all costs and your unwittingly helping them will only make it easier! Again I say that if this blog gets buried it will not be mine or Collins or tgs fault but a very small group of burnt out ex wheel builders that could care less about seeing any serious progress ever made in solving the wheel. They've got Collins so scared that he dares not publish his own kiikking research on his own blog but must resort to hiding it in a ridiculous code in his signatures. Already they've gotten tg banned and their working on Oystein next! I doubt if we'll even see anything directly from Oystein here only 'reviews' of his 'decoding' by Collins. Oystein saw what happened to tg and is in no rush to become the next tg here!

      mike

      Delete
  39. Øystein has kindly asked me to review two of his videos which explain his decoding method.

    I am writing the review and will publish it very soon.

    JC

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Please say you have not joined the other side?

      Delete
    2. Great! Finally something 'relevant' which I shall look forward to reading. But publishing such material will not make the 'Ignorami' conspirators happy at all! They want this blog to stay as irrelevant as possible as long as possible. No doubt we'll see them continue to anonymously attack Oystein after your review appears.

      mike

      Delete
    3. Why attack 0ystein when we have you to kick around mike, I mean TG, I mean Ken.

      Delete
    4. You are either an inventor or a reproducer. There is a big difference between the two. Before you take steps to go down the lesser path, think of what it will mean.

      Delete
  40. The advantages of pendulum weights rigidly attached to the fulcrum cannot be underestimated…I agree with you, Trevor…What else is more important in a Bessler PM is the smart weight management issue…the same weight that provides the motive power also poses a great problem on the ascending side…it is here that innovation needs to be shown…And, this is the least discussed matter…It is very critical to the wheel’s performance…If necessary steps are not taken in this regard then it is a job half done…The lever weight attachment can directly drive the wheel without the need of springs…springs would wear out soon and pose a problem of frequent replacements…It is all in the artful arrangement…Gravity will run the show in a very untiring manner…and very great to observe the wondrous speedy flight of the weights in a never ending sojourn...

    ReplyDelete
  41. So apparently the US is preparing for an oil boom the likes we have never seen. Major oil deposits have been found across the US and with new recovery techniques, oil and finance experts are predicting that in a few short years, the US will become the major oil producer and exported for the world. Outpacing the middle east and Russia combined. This will reduce the cost of energy significantly driving alternatives out of existence. My friends, if this is true, this is our worst nightmare. While free energy from a Bessler Wheel will be attractive, it won't be able to compete with the lost cost powered options, and as the industry grows as it is expected, the economic and political forces will quash the existence of anything that would disrupt the profits. Make no mistake, when money like this is involved (and it is expected to be astronomical), we won't stand a chance. Finding this information is difficult but is slowly becoming known. You need a contact in the industry to get good reliable information. My advice is to move forward but stay quiet for now. Good luck to us all.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I was talking to my boss this morning and he said they are going like gang busters in North Dakota, so apparently it has started. He mentioned they are using the new horizontal drilling and fracking techniques.

      Delete
    2. More oil means more carbon taxes. When will the US run out of their oil ?

      Delete
    3. You are right, any oil boom will result in a tax revenue boom. The politicians must be salivating at the prospects. This will work against the alternative energies I'm afraid.

      Delete
    4. Sheeple do not deserve free energy.


      Delete
    5. The Bessler wheel will always have a place in the economy as the green free energy contributer in the fight against air pollution and global warming.
      So keep searching!

      Delete

Why Science is wrong about Bessler's Wheel

Science has taught us that perpetual motion machines are impossible, they violate the laws of physics and we are all wasting our time and o...