Saturday, 13 March 2021

Documents re: Johann Bessler aka Orffyreus - Perpetual Motion

I’m currently getting ready to move house again so finding time to write my blogs and complete my work on Bessler’s wheel, is now too difficult.  Space to work is non-existent and although we expect to be out of this house by the end of March, I will then be staying with one of my daughters until we have chosen our next house.  This means no workshop until after we have moved!  But at least I will be able to continue my account of the codes and clues I’ve deciphered to date.

The comment facility is open to anyone so if you would like to make a comment please do so.  I may take a little longer to respond due to on-going house moving keeping me pre-occupied.

So in the mean time once more, here are the details about Johann Bessler aka Orffyreus and his amazing Perpetual Motion Machine.  Plus details of how to order his biography and his books which each include English translations.

The Legend of Bessler's wheel.

On 6th June, 1712, in Germany, Johann Bessler (also known by his pseudonym, Orffyreus) announced that after many years of failure, he had succeeded in designing and building a perpetual motion machine. For more than fourteen years he exhibited his machine and allowed people to thoroughly examine it. Following advice from the famous scientist, Gottfried Leibniz, who was able to examine the device, he devised a number of demonstrations and tests designed to prove the validity of his machine without giving away the secret of its design.

Karl the Landgrave of Hesse permitted Bessler to live, work and exhibit his machine at the prince's castle of Weissenstein. Karl was a man of unimpeachable reputation and he insisted on being allowed to verify the inventor's claims before he allowed Bessler to take up residence. This the inventor reluctantly agreed to and once he had examined the machine to his own satisfaction Karl authorised the publication of his approval of the machine. For several years Bessler was visited by numerous people of varying status, scientists, ministers and royalty. Several official examinations were carried out and each time the examiners concluded that the inventor's claims were genuine.

Over several years Karl aged and it was decided that the inventor should leave the castle and he was granted accommodation in the nearby town of Karlshafen. Despite the strong circumstantial evidence that his machine was genuine, Bessler failed to secure a sale and after more than thirty years he died in poverty. His death came after he fell from a windmill he had been commissioned to build. The windmill was an interesting design using a vertical axle which allowed it to benefit from winds from any directions. 

He had asked for a huge sum of money for the secret of his perpetual motion machine, £20,000 which was an amount only affordable by kings and princes, and although many were interested, none were prepared to agree to the terms of the deal. Bessler required that he be given the money and the buyer take the machine without viewing the internal workings. Those who sought to purchase the wheel, for that was the form the machine took, insisted that they see the secret mechanism before they parted with the money. Bessler feared that once the design was known the buyers could simply walk away knowing how to build his machine and he would get nothing for his trouble.


I became curious about the legend of Bessler’s Wheel, while still in my teens, and have spent most of my life researching the life of Johann Bessler (I’m now 76).  I obtained copies of all his books and had them translated into English and self-published them, in the hope that either myself or someone else might solve the secret and present it to the world in this time of pollution, global warming and increasingly limited energy resources.

Not long after I was able to read the English translations of his books, I became convinced that Bessler had embedded a number of clues in his books.  These took the form of hints in the text, but also in a number of drawings he published.  Subsequently I found suggestions by the author that studying his books would reveal more information about his wheel.


For some ideas about Bessler’s code why not visit my web sites atwww.theorffyreuscode.com or see my work on his “Declaration of Faith at http://www.orffyreus.net/

Also please view my video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BWVKtpuzn0
It gives a brief account both the legend and some more detail about some of the codes.


The problem of obtaining a fair reward for all his hard work was anticipated by Bessler and he took extraordinary measures to ensure that his secret was safe, but he encoded all the information needed to reconstruct the machine in a small number of books that he published. He implied that he was prepared to die without selling the secret and that he believed that posthumus acknowledgement was preferable to being robbed of his secret while he yet lived.

It has recently become clear that Bessler had a huge knowledge of the history of codes and adopted several completely different ones to disguise information within his publications. I have made considerable advances in deciphering his codes and I am confident that I have the complete design.

Johann Bessler published three books, and digital copies of these with English translations may be obtained from the links to the right of this blog. In addition there is a copy of his unpublished document containing some 141 drawings - and my own account of Bessler’s life is also available from the links. It is called "Perpetual Motion; An Ancient Mystery Solved?

Bessler's three published books are entitled "Grundlicher Bericht", "Apologia Poetica" and "Das Triumphirende...". I have called Bessler's collection of 141 drawings Maschinen Tractate, but it was originally found in the form of a number of loosely collected drawings of perpetual motion designs. Many of these have handwritten notes attached and I have published the best English translation of them that I was able to get. Bessler never published these drawings but clearly intended to use them in his planned school for apprentices.

You can order copies of the books from my website at www.free-energy.co.uk
Or from the top of the right side panel under the heading ‘Bessler’s Books’.
There are also links lower down on the right side panel.

As I often say, the solution to this device is needed now.  Anything that might help cleanse the planet of pollution and help to reduce green house gas emissions, by providing a clean cheap alternative energy source should encouraged in its discovery and development to counter global warming.

JC 

80 comments:

  1. Hi all, I have reinstated the comments facility so feel free to have your say. All I ask is that you keep it respectful.

    JC

    ReplyDelete
  2. I agree,the wheel is the best solution to provide energy 24/7.
    The others4,like wind turbines a solar cells only provide for part of the day, which means you have to have storage capability which doubles the cost and the batteries don't last.Then you have the cost of recycling the redundant waste.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes I agree Trevor, I often forget the fact that a successful wheel could obviate the need for a battery.

      JC

      Delete
    2. Also the grid--------------Sam

      Delete
  3. There is a huge difference between deciphering and interpreting. All attempts at deciphering Bessler's writings, to produce design information, have thus far failed. At some point we have to question the belief that Bessler did encode his design in AP for others to find. MT is a bit of a different story as the movement, as Bessler described it, may be found by combining snip-its from multiple illustrations. Finding design clues within the MT illustrations is different that deciphering writings.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I will also need to see explicit wording describing the wheel's design before I believe it. Something like

      The toe bone is connected to the foot bone.
      The foot bone is connected to the heel bone.
      ... etcetera etcetera ...
      And that's what makes the wheel go round and round.

      Delete
    2. It’s a fair point, but I firmly believe that deciphering is the necessary method to producing a working model, unless you get there without Bessler’s help. Interpretation has a part to play because you don’t know for sure whether the deciphering is valid until you have tested it - it’s still an interpretation until it’s proven.

      JC

      Delete
  4. The wheel solution is not far away!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I know. I can almost see it.
      (Be aware of fata morgana's)
      :)

      Delete
    2. I had to look up ‘fata Morga’, you learn something new every day - mirage. Let’s hope!

      JC

      Delete
  5. I fully agree with anon 17:41... Three hundred years have passed since Bessler and this is ample proof we couldn't solve it with his hints or so called codes alone... IMO, we'll be able to get there only through self owned hard work... Bessler has very cleverly ensured that we don't succeed in stealing his idea that easily...

    Coming to its mechanism part... We can say it is our own sillyness and utter ignorance that we don't take the vital clue of eight banging sounds seriously which denotes eight weights... This way we are letting ourselves traverse the wrong path... Can't help such a stupidity... this is one such way some of us easily get distracted... There are areas where Bessler reveals parts of his secrets but we fail to take note of it or show any consideration towards the same... Very pathetic situation... There are characters here who ensure this...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I’m guessing you mean me Suresh, I’m one of the stupid ones, but I am confident that you will discover that eight weights are not the answer.

      JC

      Delete
    2. I'm fairly certain that the eight thumps, (if there were 8), were dummy weights, probably a short length of iron pipe, that slid up and down on a spoke. They had nothing to do with turning the wheel. Miss direction if you will. Also it seams they each had a spring hooked to the center of them, at right angles, in order to cushion there falling, both in and out------Sam

      Delete
    3. Also, I find that Bessler's clues tend to describe what happens, but little or nothing that tells HOW to do it------------------Sam

      Delete
  6. You sure are right, Sam... When the mechanism is so simple one really can't risk explaining how it works... But, using our discretion, we can deduce or imagine how it would work...

    It amounts to oversaying that Bessler muffled sound or tried to misguide us by creating extra sounds... Why should he?... He had adequately covered the wheel and what was the need to alter the sound?...

    IMO, the wheel sound is natural... And it is a great clue not to be missed... Bessler actually wasn't worried about the number of sound or weights getting leaked he was worried about the mechanism secret which was utterly simple... He was worried about someone able to view the inside and certainly not about hearing what was happening inside...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I think you may have misunderstood what Sam was saying Suresh, or I did. He described the sound of eight ‘dummy’ weights, meaning they were there to hide the real sounds the weights made as they landed,

      Suresh you suggest that Bessler did not worry about the sounds coming from his wheel, but he describes how he used felt in earlier wheels, to deaden the sound of his weights impacting, so it’s certainly possible he also found ways to reduce the sound of his wheels, or added additional sounds, as Sam suggested.

      JC

      Delete
  7. JC sir... My reply was to Sam's second 05:14 comment...

    Using felt to deaden the sound is understandable... Nobody loves loud noise... But adding additional sounds to confuse visitors is either an overstatement or wishful thinking in my opinion... That is not required and is avoidable... Karl found it very simple and artistic... Moreover, eight sounds coming from a wheel is not going to reveal much or let out the secret as being understood by you...

    Eight levered wheel makes not only some sense but is also symmetrically ok... The weights have to be equally fitted inside... The magic happens only when the wheel is in motion... People think even number weights could balance the wheel and it may require a push... But in reality things are different... I have worked out all this well but due to lack of resources I am stalled... If any of you can visit my place it would be very revealing what I mean... Anyway, when things start gradually improving at my side I will definitely reveal what I meant... My approach is entirely different from that of Ken or your design... I started from scratch in the year 1989 and didn't know Bessler at that time... I learnt about Bessler from RA FORD's book...in 1993...

    My approach is natural... Initially, I understood a weight placed on a lever at different length produced different effects... And also, I believed that we can make Gravity to work for us... Then it took about twenty more years to perfect the design but tragedies took over in my life and I lost everything... I am still experiencing unrest like you by changing residences... Unlike you I also lack basic education and technical skills... You were an engineer but I worked in the security field...

    Something in me tells that Bessler didn't add additional sounds or alter the sounds because his fear was not there in this regard...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Unless he wished to make sure his witnesses did indeed believe there were eight weights, when in fact there might have been only five.

      JC

      Delete
    2. Suhresh,
      Please forgive me for saying so, but I think you are wrong. It's impossible for the humane brain to deduce or imagine how this wheel worked. Only by experimenting will you ever find out--------------------Sam

      PS The dummy weights, (if they were dummy weights), were a decoy; an attempt to mislead people on how the wheel actually worked.

      Delete
  8. Follow up; Do you understand what I'm saying? The novelty of this wheel is beyond comprehension------------------------------Sam Peppiatt

    ReplyDelete
  9. Likewise, I believe that the "5" theory has brought John into a corner and he cannot get away.
    You have full clarity of thought, Sam.
    This path is unknown to science.
    This is a paradox, this Nature Phenomenon discovered by Bessler. Lord, bless his soul, because he lived only for the Truth and the truth defends itself perfectly.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. But I don’t want to get away from the corner, I’m certain that five mechanisms hold the key and I know how to unlock it.

      JC

      Delete
  10. AA 18:31 I'm starting to realize that the effective driving range for a single weight is roughly 90 degrees, not to it couldn't be a little more than that. So with only 4 drivers / mechanisms, four might not be enough to sustain rotation. There seams to be some evidence to that because, he said one crossbar would barely run. I take that literally. If you have a vertical member and add a crossbar, it will form a cross / X / 4 spokes / 4 weights. If that's true then 4 drivers may not be enough. I think John Collins is right, there has to be at least 5 mechanisms for a wheel to work.

    However, I see 5 as a minimum number; I see no reason why there can't be more; more than 5---------------------------Sam

    ReplyDelete
  11. If the theory of "5" then in my opinion must be the theory of "55" because they are presented as two halves of the whole.
    You confused the number of "5" mechanisms with 1/2 + 1/2 pairs, because they must work in pairs.
    Right John? --------------------------------- True Sam?.
    Good night.

    ReplyDelete
  12. “John Collins26 March 2021 at 09:45
    Unless he wished to make sure his witnesses did indeed believe there were eight weights, when in fact there might have been only five.”

    Why would Bessler do that? Is 5 weights easier to figure out than 8? I guess not, 5 or 8, in the end it is the same “mechanism” that makes them go up and than fall.

    BNR

    ReplyDelete
  13. “Sam Peppiatt25 March 2021 at 14:21
    Also, I find that Bessler's clues tend to describe what happens, but little or nothing that tells HOW to do it------------------Sam”

    Back in a day, we humans were chipping stones in caves, no one told us how to do anything, reasoning, analysis and observation got us where we are today, don’t complain, go out, look around and you will be surprised what you might find.

    BNR

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Io penso che gli 8 colpi provenivano dal cilindro inferiore che Bessler nomina quado ricostruisce la ruota che aveva distrutta, questo cilindro inferiore lui lo chiama il cuore del dispositivo forse perché batteva, il cilindro inferiore che vediamo in MT 11 ci può dare una idea di come era fatto, resta il fatto che il motore principale aveva 5 pesi sulla periferia che sfruttavano l'eccesso di peso, questo è quello che penso. Saluti dall'Italia.

      Delete
    2. PG Wrote -
      “I think the 8 shots came from the lower cylinder that Bessler names when he reconstructs the wheel he had destroyed, this lower cylinder he calls the heart of the device perhaps because it was beating, the lower cylinder we see in MT 11 can give us an idea of ​​how it was done, the fact remains that the main engine had 5 weights on the periphery that exploited the excess weight, that's what I think. Greetings from Italy.”

      It’s good to hear from you PG, I’ll comment once I’ve understood your comment, thank you.

      JC

      Delete
    3. I’m not sure exactly what you’re quoting from, but it might be due to the 300 year old text translated into English and then Italian and then back into English again! Or the original text was translated into Italian and then English!

      JC

      Delete
  14. I agree with 5, as I have stated before I believe 5 gives the 'overlap' needed to ensure no 'dead spot' every quarter, and to make the torque continous. regards - Jon

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thank you Jon, it’s nice to occasionally receive a positive comment supporting my view.

      JC

      Delete
  15. The overlap being stated by Jon that ensures no dead spot is perceived by Jon from such an angle which may not necessarily be that of Bessler... Continuous torque may also happen in a different way... There is nothing to be sure here in what Jon says... Things can be quite different the way I see...

    Usually, what people fail to understand here is that things can be entirely different in the real situation... The BW spins fast and there are many forces in action at this point... Like inertia, etc... Specifically speaking, in the first place, it is the internal components designing and their arrangement that actually matters and the matter regarding the number of weights is secondary...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. In your opinion Suresh, but not necessarily in other people’s. I don’t think any of us long time researchers of Bessler’s wheel can ever be accused of ‘failing to understand’ something. We have all been studying and experimenting with ideas for far too long to not to know what is and isn’t important. I can for instance disagree with your statement that the arrangement of the internal components matters more than the number of weights.

      JC
      ,

      Delete
    2. John Collins 29 March 2021 at 17:03 wrote:

      “ I don’t think any of us long time researchers of Bessler’s wheel can ever be accused of ‘failing to understand’ something.”

      Oops! John, I am not trying to be nasty or sarcastic, but I think you just shot your own foot. ‘failing to understand’ is the main and only reason why there is no running wheel.
      I follow this blog for some time now, not that I want to learn something, I have no need for that, just to see what is going on in the community. Judging from the subjects discussed, one thing stands out clearly: ‘failing to understand’ the difference between Perpetual Motion and Over Unity. As I wrote before the latter is impossible, neither you or anyone else, no matter how smart or intelligent, will ever find it. Period! PM on the other hand is possible!
      I don’t discourage anyone from doing what they do, just keep on doing it, and I will be watching the results, or should I say... lack of it.
      Best regards and have nice day.

      BNR

      Delete
    3. Don't mind him John; he's just a useless pr*ck------------------Sam

      Delete
    4. Sam Peppiatt 29 March 2021 at 22:07

      Tank you Sam for kind words!
      Calling someone “a useless pr*ck” without explanation, it is called arrogance. Is that all you have to offer? I know you are a so called “regular” here, one of those burned out old-timers who except insults and ridicule, some times new iterations of old mistakes, have nothing else to offer. Be proud of your self.
      Best regards and have nice day

      BNR

      Delete
    5. John Collins 29 March 2021 at 17:03 wrote:

      “I can for instance disagree with your statement that the arrangement of the internal components matters more than the number of weights.”

      Arrangement and the number of weights are interconnected, one will not work without the other one. They are equally important.

      BNR

      Delete
  16. Another misunderstood concept is explained in the following...

    Bessler mentions cross-bar in AP... People think that it is the scissors mechanism in toypage... IMO, it could be a crossbar shaped lever... With four weights at four ends of the crossbar... this could also mean that the wheel turned slowly with one crossbar... Which also indicates that with minimum four weights the wheel can rotate but slowly... also, clarifying weights acted in pairs... Further, two crossbars mean eight weights... Supported by eight banging sounds...

    To conclude, the number of weights in BW is not critical... It can run with four weight or even with eight weights or even multiples of it...

    The five weight theory is ruled out in this theory...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Shuresh what was the approximate weight of a crossbar?
      How many cylinder shaped weights were used for each mechanism?
      Of the cylinder type were they the same shape and volume?
      How did Besler know that most everyone would make the same mistake in evaluating his drawings?
      In addition to the last what external modifications did he use to ensure that the greedy ones would always get it wrong?

      Delete
    2. Suresh, as I understand it, John Collins is not talking about five weights but five mechanisms.

      Delete
    3. To me, both mean the same...

      Delete
    4. SG... One mechanism holds one weight...and all weights and crossbars are similarly shaped and weigh the same... Bessler built external Speed governor pendulum to divert attention...

      Delete
  17. I here totally agree with John and others who see 5 and 55 significance in the wheel! I know that nr 5 is "the actual key" to build the wheel. There is more proof for that than John has published. But, from things I have read, I see that John tries to use it in a way that is not directly intended by Bessler. 5 has another purpose or meaning in the Bessler wheel. No, my idea is not to distract John or others from his/others at the moment work and beliefs. don't notice me and carry on, I just leave some markings behind for the future.
    About 8 bangs. Strangely I have not seen anybody who talks about next ...
    Who have said and where that all 8 sounds were all similar ones, sounded like: klick, klick, klick ... as I understand, everybody talks about everywhere (Taken from 8 sound = 8 weights). Why can it sound like: click, clack, click, clack ... or maybe click, clack, clock - click, clack, clock...
    Let me explain.
    As we know, there is reported even number of "sounds", when the wheel turns. How it was measured and how those sounds were exactly sound like, we do not know. Where those sounds fake or real, we also do not know here ... jet.
    To know or understand what sound was produced, there must analyze other things that we know. Little open mind here ...
    We all talk and believe here that Bessler was an honest man. So why he, in his honesty, must fake things, especially in his most significant work. If we believe here that all his wheels were genuine, why there must believe or think that those sounds from the wheel can be fake! Here is no logic behind this kind of thought. Think it more deeper.
    Answer to the next question honestly, is there possible to figure out with just hearing, how machine inner structure looks like or how it works? I think that most of us do not believe it is possible or achievable at all. From this can assume that Bessler also acknowledges this to himself, and from that, he was not afraid that the wheel's inner sounds will reveal something important or different he has already exposed. As there is plenty of different "original" sounds in wheelwork action. Let's take for example of four working pendulums inside the wheel. If all four pendulums are at work, then all of them are in a different "work" position, at any wheel rotation point. And all of them are in continual change ... always. There is hard even to trained ear to realize, separate, allocate ec., what and how is connected to where and how it all have been done.
    There are scratching sounds, there are bang sounds, all mixt up. Why not think this way that Bessler wanted those sounds to be heard from outside the wheel as clearly as possible. Why? Because it will be proof that machine work with - falling weights, moving levers/pendulums with some springs ... As little, as Bessler has described before publicly, what is inside the wheel. It is like confirming and consolidate or prooving all in a real wheel and work action. It will help in sale. Now think that machine was totally silent!? Do you believe then that the machine is genuine? Why there is no sound? At least falling weights must produce some noise?!

    To be continued ...
    (PLMKRN)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. huit sons ne prouvent pas qu'il y ai huit poids.
      huit sons peuvent éventuellement donner l'idée qu'il y ai huit mécanismes.
      JB

      Delete
    2. JB wrote, “ eight sounds does not prove that there are eight weights.
      eight sounds can possibly give the idea that there are eight mechanisms.”

      This might be true but I still prefer the idea there were five mechanisms.

      JC

      Delete
    3. C'est votre piste!
      JB

      Delete
    4. JB wrote ‘this your trail.”

      JC

      Delete
  18. Just for "chewing" ... 8 sound can be:
    1. click - click - click - .... this means 8 weights, but no ... (I do not say it here ... at least now. Think, what kind of words or sentences can be here)
    2. click, clack - click, clack - 4 or 2x4 connected weights with 2 maximum "end/rest" cycles/points (almost can think here like a two-stroke engine)
    3. click, clack, clock, cluck - click, clack, clock, cluck - 2 weights with 4 cycles each.
    Sound can not be with three different "clicks", like - click, clack, clock - , because then there would be 6 or 9 or 12 sounds per rotation.

    About the action sounds wheel produce.
    One is the "work cycle" action of a pendulum, Where outer "work weight" will start to travel from wheel center (/side) to outer perimeter side.
    Another cycle is the "recovery cycle" or I call it "load cycle". Where weight starts to move from the wheel perimeter side to the wheel center side. And those cycles are not, as most of you suggest or think from 12 to 6 and vice versa.
    To the center of the wheel or toward the center, there is a big difference in those actions. But not so significant meaning in real life. There is no any specific purpose that the outer weight must reach the wheel center axis. Here is also one proof for that - kiiking. No mass will be moved to the center of the wheel and back. There just need a little out-of-balance "situation" at the right point and at right time.
    If one would bother to take a little effort and analyzeif my previous videos.
    There is seen that, when "work" weight going inwards, it will do it in more quicker action than going outwards. Outward going is like stretching, going inward is like punch, it is more quicker and powerful -"like flying upwards". Yea, I know, that all sounds more than strange here. But hey, you all reading this here... seems you have forgotten with which we are dealing and exactly what we chase here?! Is this "normal"? Nor should anyone be reminded why no one has found it before ... why did Bessler find it !? Again, open and different thinking will lead to success.
    All the best to all of you!
    PLMKRN

    ReplyDelete
  19. Why we do not have nice things, thing to consider before ... :
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5v8D-alAKE

    PLMKRN

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Looks interesting, unfortunately no sound available so I don’t have any idea what he was talking about. Yes I tried all the usual things and all the other YouTube’s had sound ...so?

      JC

      Delete
    2. Wow, seems I have transferred my usual "glitches" with my comment to you John :) ... If no sound ... Have you tried to turn on subtitles - on video window small gear icon (Settings) - Subtitles - English
      PLMKRN

      Delete
    3. Got it, watched it, excellent.

      JC

      Delete
  20. Anonymous PLMKRN I knew of that lightbulb a long time ago and it is truly saddens me to know the truth. The rich manipulate education to dumb down Society that is not a conspiracy Theory. That is the truth! The ones who make their Millions by using their money to make more money so they don't contribute to the greater good are greedy and contribute to waste and pollution. Some are worse than others but all are complicit. You don't get rich by playing a fair game. You seem to have the same understanding I hope a desire for truth. I do and I would be willing to share with you the knowledge I have of the correct design of Bessler's mechanism that allowed the wheel to turn and the knowledge of where he got it from however there's just one problem I don't know who you are. I will not make the mistake of casting my Pearls Before Swine. The biggest problem in solving this riddle is after you do how do you Ensure it's life! I will not Gamble with this knowledge getting into the wrong hands before it has a chance. All the experiments have been done the knowledge of how and why it will work is known.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Stephen G.
      Have you made any video about your working solution or do you have any other visible/readable information? No any inner structures need to show, just some kind of proof - "hey here is something ...!?"

      PLMKRN

      Delete
    2. Anonymous PLMKRN it's wonderful that you're interested in truth I like that it's also commendable that you point out the problem of planned obsolescence these are good and the admirable qualities you have. What else do you have to bring to the table? I am Looking for how you would disseminate this information to the world and how you would help guide its implementation. And how you would protect the information from getting out prematurely.

      Delete
  21. “JB wrote, “ eight sounds does not prove that there are eight weights.
    eight sounds can possibly give the idea that there are eight mechanisms.”

    This might be true but I still prefer the idea there were five mechanisms”

    Forgive my ignorance, I do have a problem to follow this logic. John insists there are 5 mechanisms, (why not? Possible) 5 weights in pairs (also possible), that’s 10 weights, 8 rolling then banging sounds made by 8 dummy weights to disguise the real number of weights, now we have 18 weights all together. Those 8 dummy weights, in order to make this dummy sounds (rolling and bunging) would have to be raised (so they can roll down) by some kind of dependent or independent mechanisms form the main mechanisms. Now if dependent, that would put extra (unnecessary) load on the wheel and slow it down, it would also affect its initial acceleration (which apparently was very rapid) If independent than it would be achievement in its own right, and make the main 5 mechanisms redundant. Which ever way it was done, it does not fit definition of simplicity.

    BnR

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Actuellement je travail sur un mécanisme à 5 poids déclencheurs et 1 poids satellitaire. le mécanisme fonctionne bien.
      Le problème se présente lors de l'arrangement sur la roue avec 8 mécanismes.
      plus de charge à remonter que de charge à descendre.
      je dois modifier la longueur de mes pantographes et vérifier.
      Rien n'est joué.
      JB

      Delete
    2. The “8 rolling then banging sounds made by 8 dummy weights to disguise the real number of weights” is not how the sounds were described. Fischer von Erlach said “the sound of about eight weights landing gently on the side towards which the wheel turned”. Nothing about rolling weights or banging. A small weighted lever tipping over as its pivot rotated past the vertical allowing it to land “gently” on the side toward which turned, would not take up much space.

      JC

      Delete
    3. JB wrote, “ Currently I am working on a mechanism with 5 trigger weights and 1 satellite weight. the mechanism works well.
      The problem arises when arranging on the wheel with 8 mechanisms.
      more load to go up than load to go down.
      I need to change the length of my pantographs and check.
      Nothing is played.”.

      Delete
  22. By using so many different names like driver weights, trigger weights, satelite weights, lower cylinders, we seem to be creating more confusions... Also, in differentiating too much by terming the simple weights and levers which Bessler employed as mechanisms etc., things get more complicated...

    Things are too simple inside imho...

    A lever-weight combination comprises a weight and a couple of levers making it a single combination... And several such independent mechanisms are arranged inside a BW... These mechanisms work in pairs... Which simply means that one is placed opposite the other and the total always have to be in even number... Like four placed diagonally or like crossbars... So I always feel it can't be five mechanisms at any cost and whoever still keeps insisting on the five mechanisms is actually not really aware of the actual secret working of the BW...

    If they can prove five is still right I am prepared to accept failure and bite the dust...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Actually Suresh, the onus is on you to "prove" beyond any doubt that 5 is "not" the actual number of mechanisms. Until you do that, you can't say anything about the number of mechanisms in the BW. At least JC comes at his conclusion based on scientific examination of Bessler's writings and illustrations. There is credibility is his findings, there is none in yours. Not picking on you, just pointing out the cold hard facts.

      Delete
    2. I would be very careful talking about "the cold hard facts". As of today, the only facts that exist, come from the eye witnesses and none from Bessler himself. In a way, like it or not, "the cold hard facts“ (when it comes to the number of weights) are on SK side.

      BnR

      Delete
    3. There are no facts that indicate the number of weight shifting mechanisms within the BW. You must be referring to the sounds witnesses say they heard. Well noises are not indicative of anything unless you know what is making the noises. It is well known that Bessler wrote and spoke in clues and riddles, so who is to say he did not also add noises to his wheel to confuse. In fact, you would expect this. The only tangible details to go off of are his writings and illustrations.

      You say no facts came from Bessler himself, what do you call his writings and illustrations. At least those came from Bessler himself.

      I can only guess that SK is making judgements based on hearsay alone, as he has no documented information from Bessler to go on.

      Nope, cold hard facts are not on SKs side.

      Delete
    4. I somewhat agree with Anon 21:16. You have to look at what material facts remain (not hearsay from eye witnesses seeing the outside of a drum rotate). The material facts are Bessler's books (AP, GB, MT, etc.). He said the movement can be found in MT. It will take someone decoding MT to get to the truth. Did Suresh do this? I don't know but I have never seen any posts from him suggesting that. I think his writings is where the truth lies, but until someone finds something within, we will never know for sure.

      Delete
    5. Ken B. is the only person with a runner, and it includes 8 mechanisms. Suresh has Ken's back when it comes to the 8 mech so between the two of them we have incontrovertible proof that 8 is correct.

      Delete
    6. dont bring ken into this, he's a bigger whackadoodle than suresh

      Delete
  23. Ken B. is the only person with a runner, and it includes 8 mechanisms. Suresh has Ken's back when it comes to the 8 mech so between the two of them we have incontrovertible proof that 8 is correct.

    ReplyDelete
  24. The real logic behind all this is the understanding of the mechanism itself than in the knowing of the number of mechanisms...

    You ask JC sir how the mechanism functions he wouldn't give you a satisfying answer... Then his five mechanism theory can't hold ground...

    In order to function the mechanisms need independent space... And they work in pairs...
    It has to be four of our eight... One crossbar and that is four runs the wheel slow...

    As JC sir, where is the pair of the fifth mechanism?... They infact become ten mechanisms... Where is the space?...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Knowing how many mechanisms are in the wheel, and how each mechanism actually works, is entirely different in the level of importance.

      The fact that JC is willing to share one piece of information and not the other is not hard to understand.

      Suresh, you yourself have claimed to know the secret of the wheel for years and have refused to give details, so you can't say JCs refusal to come forth about all he knows is any indication of the accuracy of his claims.

      Regarding mechanisms working in pairs, they may. Have you not considered that each mechanism is linked to the mechanism that follows. For instance, suppose a mechanism passes the Zenith (12 o'clock) it does its move thing, and that move cocks the mechanism that follows, then as the following mechanism passes the Zenith, it does the same to the mechanism that follows it. Something like a cascade effect. In this way you could have any number of even or odd mechanisms - you just have to have space for them to all fit.

      Delete
    2. huit sons, des mécanismes allant par paire, cela peut induire seize mécanismes!
      tout restera spéculation tant que la Roue ne tournera pas.
      JB

      Delete
  25. Anonymous 6 April 2021 at 21:16

    "There are no facts that indicate the number of weight shifting mechanisms within the BW."

    Then, based on what, you dismiss 8 and accept 5 ?(cherry picking)

    “Well noises are not indicative of anything unless you know what is making the noises"

    Then, based on what, you dismiss 8 and accept 5? Do “you know what is making the noises"? (cherry picking)

    "It is well known that Bessler wrote and spoke in clues and riddles, so who is to say he did not also add noises to his wheel to confuse."

    Based on this clues and riddles who is to say that he did? (cherry picking)

    “In fact, you would expect this.”
    Based on WHAT FACT? Sorry for the capitols.

    "You say no facts came from Bessler himself, what do you call his writings and illustrations."

    Writings and illustrations, and nothing more.

    "At least those came from Bessler himself."
    But there are no FACTS indicating what is what, or how to make it go.

    "I can only guess that SK is making judgements based on hearsay alone"
    I don’t care what SK judgment is based on. The facts (eye witnesses testimonials are the only facts that exist) your own “facts” based on your personal interpretation or beliefs are not valid, unless you have something to back it up, and I don’t think you do, until then the facts are on SK side, can prove it otherwise?
    Cheers

    BnR

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You have me all wrong. I am not pushing 5 or 8. All I am saying is there is no tangible proof for 5 or 8 to my knowledge. JC thinks he found clues in AP or MT that indicate 5. I guess you and Suresh believe 8 because of the 8 banging noises heard by eye witnesses. My beef with Suresh (if you can call it that) is he keeps making claims with no proof. I want to see him put in some significant effort to decode or work with the drawings to find something that suggests the number of weight mechanisms. JC is and has been doing this almost his entire life so you have to give his claims more weight don't you think? Anyway, that's about it.

      Personally I am horrible at deciphering so I stick with building and mathematical modeling. If and when I build a wheel, I will go with the slowest RPM I can, to give the weight shifting mechanisms time to do the work. Obviously my approach must be significantly different than Bessler's since his wheels turned so fast.

      Delete
    2. I agree, the only known fact that points to the number of mechanisms is what eye witnesses reported hearing (8 bangs per revolution or was it approximately 8 bangs per revolution?). Since no one could see into the wheel, the only thing other than speed and lifting ability, was the audible banging. We know Bessler was a master at deception, using codes and drawing irregularities to hide or point to clues, so it is not beyond the realm of possibility to think he could have added sound effects to mislead examiners.

      Delete
    3. If your approach is through codes decipering you are going to face a blind alley or a dead end... And, that is for sure...

      If you can work out the secret Bessler wheel movement by yourself then you'll find sense in the eight banging sound...

      Just for example consider this... Long back I had put up a question to everyone asking the meaning of children playing among pillars... I was totally disappointed when even JC sir and Ken failed to explain it... now you can imagine their plight in understanding the other such similar clues...

      It is imperative you need to have some prior understanding of how such movement can happen...

      Delete
    4. So are you going to be like JC and not share, or will you share what you know about the children and pillars. Will you walk the walk, or just be all talk. Your time has come.

      Delete
    5. BnR, there is another fact that does exist (other than the eye witness accounts of hearing 8 bumps per revolution).

      That fact is how Bessler manipulated his writings and drawings to indicate something is not right. Some of his writings were in riddles and some clearly encoded. He covered weights with cloth before handing them to examiners. All examples of the the things he did to distract or mislead, so again I say he could have easily added mechanisms in the wheel to create noises to cover up what was actually happening in the wheel. This cannot be dismissed.

      I'm not too sure how important the number of mechanisms actually is. Could you not just make the mechanisms smaller, or the wheel diameter larger so more mechanisms fit. I'm more concerned about how each mechanism worked than how many you can squeeze in a wheel.

      Delete
  26. I have already explained about children playing earlier twice... Children are the weights and pillars the levers... There are no other characters involved inside other than their housing... Independent segments... The children keep playing endlessly...

    ReplyDelete
  27. Anon...03:32

    Each mechanism functions independently... They are housed seperately... That's the beauty... According to the wheel movement the weights and levers perform their act... I think your understanding that the mechanism at zenith cocks the one that follows is not correct... It is Gravity and other related forces that does it... The mechanisms don't fully rely on other mechanisms for support... the mechanisms are quite independent and they make use of Gravity both ways... For climbing as well as falling... If you deploy your common sense properly you can make out how much accuracy is there in JC sir's version or even Ken's for that matter... Nobody can hide the truth for very long... Even Bessler couldn't... He has revealed so much in many hints... That's why we all know that his achievement is genuine...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I just threw the adjacent pairs idea out there for consideration, in case you hadn't thought about it. I believe in something entirely different.

      Delete

Reviewing the Power of Bessler’s Perpetual Motion Machine

Many people have calculated the potential power of Bessler’s wheel and concluded that it wouldn’t amount to much, however I’m not convinced ...