Thursday, 25 September 2025

Overunity or Perpetual Motion or…..Underunity?

People sometimes suggest that Perpetual Motion (PM) is an example of Over-Unity and it seems implied that there is a difference.  But what does it mean?  Obviously the two terms are meant to refer to Bessler’s wheel, but when I google it I’m given this. 

“Over-unity refers to a hypothetical device or system that produces more energy output than its energy input, a concept that contradicts the fundamental law of conservation of energy, which states that energy cannot be created or destroyed. Claims of over-unity devices often involve hidden energy sources, misinterpretations of efficiency, or pseudoscientific explanations, leading to their widespread rejection by the scientific community. While true over-unity is considered impossible, the underlying concept reflects a desire to find new energy sources beyond conventional ones.”

So it’s obviously impossible.

Here’s another definition, “ From over- +‎ unity (the number "1”, referring to the fact that an over-unity device should produce more kinetic energy than whatever potential it receives as input. Coined to avoid patent rules that prevent impossible technologies such as perpetual motion machines being patented.”

Cunning, but it’s still wrong.  The idea that a “device should produce more kinetic energy than what ever potential it receives as input”, is obviously wrong because it still violates the conservation of  energy principle. Let’s reconsider this idea.

If Bessler’s wheel was, as he claimed it to be, a perpetual motion device and the weights it apparently contained, were enabled to fall by gravity.  I note that  Bessler referred to his machine, using the expression “per se”. There are several nuanced definitions of this phrase but the meaning my original translator opined was “like or similar to, a perpetual motion machine”; or even “as if it it were a PM”. It seems to me to imply that Bessler understood the reluctance in the scientific world to accept the possibility of a PM machine and hinted at its similarity if not the actuality.  In other words it could run continuously with no input of energy other than that supplied by gravity to the weights.

Another impossibility?  Not necessarily, because all potential configurations have not been discovered, other than by Bessler.

I asked myself two questions. Was the falling weight the initiator of the beginning of rotation? Or was it the built-in imbalance already present in the wheel? It doesn’t matter actually, because we know the wheel would begin to rotate as soon as the brake was released.  Could the wheel begin to rotate, even before a single weight fell, if so then the wheel must have been out-of-balance, regardless of where it stopped? But that would not rule out the action of a falling weight contributing to the start of rotation even after it had been brought to a halt.  Where it landed must have created an imbalance and the start or continuation of rotation.

Maybe we should reverse the over-unity idea?

Consider this.  The only energy available is that produced by either imbalanced or falling weights. That’s all there is.  Configure the device to spend less of the kinetic energy that it received as potential energy and yet still be able sustain rotation.  Therefore it would need to generate enough potential energy from the kinetic energy it receives to rotate the wheel and yet still have some left to raise one weight sufficiently to rotate the wheel a little, to reset the wheel

Bessler told us this, “ a great craftsman would be he who, as one pound falls a quarter, causes four pounds to shoot upwards four quarters.”  This is one Bessler’s more devious clues.  What Bessler sought to do was to tell us what to do but disguise it from the casual reader; however it has turned out more difficult than perhaps he anticipated.

Note that within the quote he mentions that there are five weights, one plus four, and each one is equal to one pound.  Secondly, one pound falls a quarter.  How do we define what he meant by a quarter? In this case he was referring to a clock - something he also embedded invisibly in the first drawings in both Grundlicher Bericht and Das Triumphirende - and a quarter of an hour or fifteen minutes covers 90 degrees.  But how could this single right angle fall cause “ four pounds to shoot upwards four quarters”? 
In the first  part of this riddle the word ‘quarter', referred to, not just 90 degrees but also to a clock.  In the second part the word ‘quarter' also refers to a clock but this time he has confused us by using the words ‘four quarters’. ‘Four quarter’s equals ‘one whole hour’.  Each hour on a clock is divided into 30 degrees, so the words ‘four quarters’ meaning ‘one hour’ as used here equals thirty degrees.  To paraphrase Bessler’s words, “a great craftsman would be he who, as one pound falls 90 degrees, causes each of the other four pounds to shoot upwards 30 degrees.”  
You might think the 30 degree suggestion is wrong, but it is not, he alludes, silently, to this particular piece of information in two drawings.
That still didn’t show us where the extra energy which was sufficient to shoot each of the four remaining pounds in turn, upwards 30 degrees, and why was it only 30 degrees?
I know the answer and I will share it very soon and I can tell you that I’ve never seen this exact concept suggested or tested before.  I’ve almost finished my last attempt to build Bessler’s wheel, and I should know very soon if it works or not. I’m confident that I have the correct solution, but as I’ve said before, I’m not happy with the build quality!
JC


24 comments:

  1. JC will disagree with me here, but physics remains unchallenged by pseudoscientific ideas, such as the idea that gravity is a source of energy. Gravity is nothing more than a rate of acceleration. A mass in that field of acceleration experiences a constant force that compels it to accelerate. However, it is not until the mass actually is moved by that force that we can talk about energy. Energy is when a force moves that mass at a certain velocity, or across a certain distance. For this reason, the formula mgh is mass times acceleration times distance, which is height above earth.

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    1. (continued from above)
      The fact that a wheel's diameter is finite, then the amount of potential energy that you can gain from the fall of a mass in a wheel is also finite and will very quickly end. This fact proves that Bessler had no choice but to employ what is known as "over unity." Bessler remarked that a one pound weight caused the raising of more than one pound. To any person with even the slightest knowledge, you know that a lever can be used to lift weights far heavier than what is input. That is clearly not what Bessler was talking about. He was giving us a powerful clue here, and was speaking of lifting that heavier weight as far up as the lighter weight descends, which is clearly over unity. Later he says he lifted 4 pounds with one pound. I would challenge JC to tell us exactly what more Bessler could possibly tell us to inform us that he employed such a form of over unity, if none of these clues are referring to it. How much more clearer would he need to be? Well it just so happens that Bessler tells us that without his great craftsman principle, the wheel would not work no matter what. He said he also found out that this is why all the other wheels that have ever been made were wrong. They had no overunity.

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    2. (continued from above)
      I also challenge the notion that overunity can be written off as impossible so easily simply because of the law of conservation of energy. If perpetual motion is possible, then free energy is possible, which means that law has already been proven erroneous. There is then nothing that makes overunity impossible. I would further state that without overunity, free energy from gravity could be more easily proven impossible by the restraints of potential energy due to mgh and wheel diameter. If a mechanism exhibits overunity, any wheel with those mechanisms will rotate. However, one need not speculate too much, as simple experimentation proves that overunity (and hence, free energy) is indeed possible. Consider first the top that Bessler drew on the toys page. It is an ancient form of gyroscope. Gyroscopes in precession, balanced on a lever with a weight, will actually rise up and let the lighter weight descends, despite the gyroscope itself being much heavier. Not only did Laithwaite show this in his now infamous demonstration, but also Veritasium showed a small desktop model of the lever system I just described. Secondly, in a ballistic pendulum, there is a conservation of momentum (mv), but energy is lost (0.5mv2). If this action happens in reverse, then there would be an energy gain (free energy). This increase is demonstrated when a golf ball is dropped with a basketball. The balls are dropped from shoulder height, but the golf ball shoots up skyhigh. This is a dramatic increase of energy due to the conservation of momentum, which prohibits the simultaneous conservation of energy (meaning, the necessary violation of the laws of thermodynamics).

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  2. Check out Ken B's analysis of those Bessler great craftsman verses. Here's his simple way to lift 4 pounds 4 feet by using a 1 pound weight dropping 1 foot! That's a mechanical advantage of 16:1!!! I checked it out and it should actually work!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtwWm_wTaXE

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    1. That's not overunity. You're inputting energy from the spring, which is no different than adding more weight to the one pound that's falling. Bessler may have employed springs, but not in that way. There is definitely something in MT, probably first 55 or so, that contains this mechanism, but my guess is that it is not something you'd expect, and that's why we can't figure it out very easy. But I'm quite sure it's overunity we need to be looking for.

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    2. He's lifting 4 lbs 4 feet with a 1 lb weight dropping only 1 foot?! Lol! That's not possible and I think this sim of his is faked. Can't be done in the real world.

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    3. Not faked. The spring-assist is not at rest-length and has stored elastic energy (k value and stretched length) which is only just countered by the 4 lb weight on its lever. The 1 lb falling onto the other side of the fulcrum disturbs the balance and the forces are not equalized and the 4 lbs rises up discharging the elastic energy into KE and eventually PE.

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    4. Agreed it's not faked. What he's done is to use that long stretched spring to effectively reduce the weight of the 4 pound weight to about 0.25 pounds or 4 ounces. As the 1 pound weight drops 1 foot, the amount of gpe it loses will equal the gain in gpe of the reduced to 0.25 pound 4 pound weight as it rises through 4 feet. IOW 1 lb x 1 ft = 0.25 lb x 4 ft = 1 lb-ft. To make something like this work, that long lever has to be very light and the spring must be very long so the force it applies to the lever does not decrease much as the long end of the lever rises. This looks like something that one might find in organs which Bessler claimed working with was most valuable in helping him find a working pm design. Bessler did not say he used this exact design in his wheels but suggests that if one understands the principle involved with it then that knowledge will help him find his runner.

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  3. The very literal interpretation most have investigated and experimented with at some time or another. Now just figure out how to reset the device and restore the spring assist elastic potential energy to go again !

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    1. Good point Anon! I have researched online and so far have not found any real attempts at overunity (specifically, one pound lifting four pounds), using only levers and not cheating with springs. As you say, if you're going to use a spring, then explain how you charge the spring back up again after you use it.

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    2. "Now just figure out how to reset the device and restore the spring assist elastic potential energy to go again !
      "

      Use gravity to stretch the springs on one side of a wheel and then use the energy in the stretched springs to assist with the lifting of the weights on the other side of the wheel. That would constantly maintain an imbalance of the weights and the torque they provided to the wheel. The counter balancing would have to be very precise of course.

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  4. Here is an animated gif of a mechanism that could be overunity:
    https://limewire.com/d/584Bx#0cYkJKJ1Vq
    Notice that both weights (equal masses) are always to the right of the fulcrum, and that when the weights are at the zenith (directly above and below the fulcrum), they are equidistant from the fulcrum (equal height).

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    1. Time for you to learn how to use the free sim program Algodoo. Things only move when GPE can be lost. So draw it out and see what positions have the highest and lowest GPE.

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    2. @anon 20:24

      "Time for you to use Algodoo"
      Tried it, it won't run on my computer, it's too old, and no I'm not getting a new one. However, I would appreciate a sim of this design, as I think it contains a principle that Bessler employed, albeit without using gears.

      "Things only move when GPE can be lost"
      Ok...but then explain how Bessler's wheel moved without losing GPE. That, of course, must be overunity at work. Assuming something will fail before you even try it (or sim it) might make you miss the unexpected, yet workable, design. GPE is lost as the wheel rotates, but the same amount of gain of GPE must be made by the mechanisms in the wheel to compensate for this.

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    3. This sim here shows the GPE at a point that is not halfway between the weights, but closer to one weight than the other, which is an interesting detail: https://i.postimg.cc/KY2BDC9z/Anon2a-26-09-2025.gif

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    4. " This sim here shows the GPE at a point that is not halfway between the weights, but closer to one weight than the other, which is an interesting detail: https://i.postimg.cc/KY2BDC9z/Anon2a-26-09-2025.gif "

      Because the gearing each side is not identical ( the reason a Geared Roberval will hold it position ( no torque ) regardless of where the identical weight is on the lever ). And this different gearing is also the reason why this arrangement loses GPE and is not a Geared Roberval etc.

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    5. " "Things only move when GPE can be lost"

      Ok...but then explain how Bessler's wheel moved without losing GPE.

      That, of course, must be overunity at work. Assuming something will fail before you even try it (or sim it) might make you miss the unexpected, yet workable, design. GPE is lost as the wheel rotates, but the same amount of gain of GPE must be made by the mechanisms in the wheel to compensate for this. "

      " Ok...but then explain how Bessler's wheel moved without losing GPE. "

      The weights always lost GPE and recovered it. The ASSISTED lifting was done by the PRIME MOVER(s) apparatus. Without the Prime Mover(s) no turny spinny and no full GPE recovery.

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    6. anon 20:24 wrote "GPE is lost as the wheel rotates, but the same amount of gain of GPE must be made by the mechanisms in the wheel to compensate for this."

      That's usually the case with all of the classic overbalanced pm wheel designs, but maybe not always as with Bessler's design. Maybe it's possible for an overbalanced wheel with the right mechanisms (Bessler type mechanisms, that is) to rotate so that the descending side weights always lose a little more GPE than is at the same being regained by the ascending side weights. That excess lost GPE would then accelerate the wheel by increasing the RotKE of all its parts around the axle or by driving some outside machine attached to the axle. When driving an outside machine, the wheel would constantly lose energy by transferring it to the parts of the outside machine. But, then the question arises...where is that outgoing energy coming from? Bessler's wheels contained no "conventional" energy supplies that needed to be replenished otherwise he would not have been able to proudly proclaim them as being "perpetual"..

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    7. @anon 21:58
      That's exactly why I want to see the sim of this mechanism here https://limewire.com/d/584Bx#0cYkJKJ1Vq because the asymmetrical gearing arrangement causes the GPE to change its position vertically, not just horizontally as may be assumed.

      @anon 22:02
      This "assist" is an overunity effect performed by the "prime mover" which is an overunity mechanism. That's why Bessler called them "perpetual motion structures", because the word "overunity" and "free energy" wasn't invented yet. Today we call them "overunity mechanisms" or "free energy structures". Same thing.

      @anon 22:03
      "That's usually the case with all of the classic overbalanced pm wheel designs."
      Um, no. I have yet to find a single design out there that gains GPE and doesn't lose more than it gains. There aren't any, and that explains why they don't work. They don't have overunity. They lose GPE just fine, and maybe gain a little back, but they never gain more than (or even equal to) what they lose.

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    8. " @anon 22:02
      This "assist" is an overunity effect performed by the "prime mover" which is an overunity mechanism. That's why Bessler called them "perpetual motion structures", because the word "overunity" and "free energy" wasn't invented yet. Today we call them "overunity mechanisms" or "free energy structures". Same thing. "

      Think " Separation of Powers " - think of a runner as being made up of two systems - an OOB system that causes torque ( anything will do, like MT13 for example ) - but it is not, and never was asymmetric torque, and never can be - enter the Prime Mover(s) which assist the lifting of the weights to full GPE recovery position to repeat the geometry cycle - n.b. a wheel recycling weights is a closed geometry loop - GPE is only dependent on height and not on the path a weight takes - a Prime Mover that assists the lift process is the key to changing an ordinary non-runner into a runner which can either be described as OU, Perpetual Motion ( no recognized fuel or energy source) that can do external Work, or gravity turbine etc - call it what you will, the Prime Mover(s) are the key mechanical ingredient essential to transform a non-runner into a runner, imo.

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    9. " No. 13 .. This invention would be very good for running if not so much friction were present or someone was available up by D TO ALWAYS LIFT UP THE WEIGHT with lightning speed. "

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  5. https://i.postimg.cc/SKdshXYK/Anon2a-26-09-2025.gif

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  6. https://i.postimg.cc/ZYBdrcyx/Anon2a-27-09-2025.gif

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  7. Nah , there is extra mass on the short lever for the center of gravity to dip and rise. The cog should be horizontally translating on the x axis from right to left and back again. The thing moves because of the asymmetric mass arrangement of the gears positions.

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