I have finally made it into my workshop and spent an enjoyable a couple of days bringing myself up to date on my own version of Bessler's wheel. Despite the cold - it's been at or below freezing for more than two weeks now and the snow has scarcely stopped falling, although it hasn't settled much here, thank goodness - despite that, I'll be back in again tomorrow and over the following days ... weeks ..... months .....!
The levers I had assembled were too long and would have generated too much lift in the weight as I had designed them - if they could have lifted it at all - and I have radically altered their lengths and therefore their lifting power - it's a bit like changing down from top gear to first, but of course there are compromises to be taken into account and I won't know until the stiff-nuts are tightened and the levers tested for range of movement, how much lifting will be available. The mechanism is set up on a test rig built for one mechanism at the moment, because I want get the action perfected before I go about constructing all of them and attaching them to the wheel itself.
I am still using the principle described on my web site at http://www.besslerswheel.com/ which mimics the action of a child on a swing. I'm convinced that the principle in Bessler's wheel requires something different to the usual overbalancing system tried so many times over hundreds of years. We know that he alluded to children's gamnes and the swing is one of the oldest. I believe that the Estonian national sport of 'Kiiking', (about which you can read at my website at http://www.247website.co.uk/html/kiiking.html and which requires the rider to swing so high that he passes over the top of the swing) holds the solution. Pictures of this sport can be found from before Bessler's time and it is believed to stretch back thousands of years. My mechanism mimics the actions of the kiiking rider.
Sometimes I have so many ideas to post blogs about that I write them up one after another and often have two or three pending publication - and sometimes if I'm struggling for a subject to write about. I get some of my ideas from the besslerwheel forum, but that seems quite flat and devoid of ideas at the moment so I'm left bereft. The things I'd like to write about I can't just now, my own project is for my eyes only until I can tell you something about with supporting evidence. My work on the code breaking proceeds steadily and I am rewriting my www.orffyreuscode.com site to include more material but that will not be ready for a few weeks yet.
I was looking at a copy of one of Bessler's panegyrics to Karl the Landgrave for the year 1719 and noted that although I have not had it translated yet, it contains sections devoted to 1819, 1919, and 2019 - how amazing and how prescient of him would it be to find that his solution was found in 2019. I hope it's found before then, we need it today.
JC
10a2c5d26e15f6g7h10ik12l3m6n14o14r5s17tu6v5w4y4-3,’.
Nice to hear you are still building John,..I am to,in between distractionsI have a sneaking feeling the appologia wheel is either a template for his windmill or even an elementry timing pulley to use with a rope with notches to keep the weights in co-ordination.
ReplyDeleteWhat say you?
John, there’s no shortage of opinions here. Why not focus that energy into something creative. Make a new topic based on one of Bessler’s statements (some examples below), and have everyone give their opinion on it. I think there would be some interesting replies don't you.
ReplyDeleteWeights gained force from their own swinging (or movement).
Springs were employed, but not as detractors suggested.
A great craftsman would be that man who can 'lightly' cause a heavy weight to fly upwards! Who can make a pound-weight rise as 4 ounces fall, or 4 pounds rise as 16 ounces fall. If he can sort that out, the motion will perpetuate itself. But if he can't, then his hard work shall be all in vain.
If I arrange to have just one cross-bar in my machine, it revolves very slowly, just as if it can hardly turn itself at all, but, on the contrary, when I arrange several bars, pulleys and weights, the machine can revolve much faster.
It must, simply put, just revolve, without being wound-up, through the principle of 'excess weight’.
On one side it is heavy and full; on the other empty and light, just as it should be.
He who wishes to make it in this world must often be prepared to use a combination of lateral thinking and initiative!
Thanks for the suggestion but if you don't mind I'd prefer to leave those quotes out of here as a topic. I'm just too familiar with them and they seem to me to have been flogged to death, but feel free to discuss them here if you wish.
DeleteJC
Everyone wants answers for nothing . Get them yourself . Isn't that what we are trying to do ? Or let's beg the brilliant ( educated ) people to find this glitch for us . I think Bessler wrote to no one in particular . To each his own . OH YES ! I just sit back really noting how lost everyone seems to be with the subject matter . And I have to admit that sometimes I feel like I don't know even one thing about it . But I come 'round ... and most times I get the satisfaction that I crave and the belated comradeship with Bessler himself . I held myself to a higher standard , saying that it is not " okay " to fail , or to waste time without anything to show for it . The issue is firmly fixed in my mind as it was Bessler's mind . I am ever more confident that my path is the correct one . I have been
Deletenoncommittal in my approach to this mystery and mechanical problem-set , simply because the truth is already there and we must not impose our ideas upon it but rather it must reveal itself to us . I wish everyone the best of luck with their "ideas" .
CW
John, sounds like it's time for another Florida vacation.
ReplyDeleteIt is common to call young children " a ball of energy ". This is what you're adding to the swing, an energy source. You are attempting to add a lever and a dead weight and accomplished the same thing. Good luck anyway.
Justsomeone
Hi jso, I do indeed feel a Florida trip looming, and so would you if you had to put up wih the weather we've been having this winter. I need warmth, sunshine and friendly people!
DeleteJC
Mickey misses you. :)
ReplyDeleteLikewise! :-)
DeleteJC
90 degrees in the shade in sunny St. Lucia!
DeleteNice, Stevo!
DeleteJC
It is a generally accepted notion that the actual lifting of weights is accomplished by the levers in a BW…and this is one of the main distracting conceptions that keeps us away from progress…
ReplyDeleteSorry to sound very revolutionary…but if we have to really move ahead on the right path it is very much important to think differently…
Actually, I am too scared to give out my views freely because of imminent backlash that could erupt...But if we are really serious about the business and required to pursue like experts it is high time we shed the old skin…Very simple swinging happens…no kiiking effect…the lifting of weights is effected by the wheel motion…we should remember things happen very fast inside the wheel…there is no much time left for the lifting, etc.,to take place in the traditional way...things occur in an altogether different way…that is what was confronting Karl when he got the rare chance of gazing inside…At times I have observed that even sincere BW enthusiasts like Trevor and TG brush off my contributions without giving it a profound look…Genuine suggestions and clues are allowed to just go down the drain…
Now, does it make any sense why this wheel has been eluding many?…
Comrades, It is not my real intention to oppose or criticize anyone but I strongly hope that my suggestions are taken in a broad sense and in the larger interests…and I am very sorry if anyone feels offended as a result…I wouldn’t like to go the TG way…This blog can be made very meaningful and an actual foundation for resurrecting the Bessler Wheel…and, talking of TG, let us all once pardon and take him back into our fold…I am sure he would behave in a more mature manner and act as a good team member…
Don't be too quick to rule out the kiiking maneuver. There are several ways the movement can occur and if the swinging weights are pulled in and released at specific places and times, the figure skater effect may be able to be achieved and it's energy harnessed for gain. This is a very different way of looking at weight shifting. The key is when and how.
Delete->
Yes don't forget the kiiking maneuver but don't put the cart before the horse.
DeleteIt's the siwng that causes the bump,not the bump that causes the swing!
Trevor said "don't put the cart before the horse".
DeleteHaving worked with pendula and swinging weights, can you tell us what you think Bessler meant by "harness the horse in front".
Suresh, do you look back to see how people are replying to your older posts (I'm not talking older subjects)? If not, you might, as useful information may appear from time to time.
DeleteSuresh said "I am too scared to give out my views freely because of imminent backlash that could erupt...".
DeleteSuresh, you should feel safe giving your opinions on designs and principles. After all, they are just your opinions. For example, we know John Collins wheel utilizes Kiiking type shifting weights, but we really don't know any more of the details. I have my opinion on how I think it will work, and if John doesn't follow my thoughts, then I feel for sure he will fail, and the queen herself will lop off his head. By now you know my thoughts on the prime mover and that no mover will be created without it. I'm not afraid to say it. I'm right and that's all there is to it.
By the way, do you check your older posts for replies?
->
I can only guess,..I only know the wheel causes the weights to swing and the swing provides the power to lift the weights.
DeleteOf course, I do check all my older posts for replies…but it is the language used…I don’t easily understand some language style…if the writing is simple then it is easy for me…I am not able to comment where I don't understand the point due to writing style...
DeleteTrevor, where are you?...Actually, the swings don’t power the wheel…they sort of move the weights in the shortest possible time to the most advantageous point wherein the leverage helps the weights to work hard…simple, isn’t it?...and this is what is meant by harness the horse in the front…
DeleteWhatever happens Suresh,..One must not interrupt the swing because it's that that keeps the wheel turning.
DeleteIf you stop it at any point,it will take a while to restart and this will slow down the wheel.
Obviously, yes...
DeleteSounds like Collins is finally 'getting the lead out' and back to work. Thats a good thing and what people here want to read more about. Alot more. He said 'The mechanism is set up on a test rig built for one mechanism at the moment, because I want get the action perfected before I go about constructing all of them and attaching them to the wheel itself.' Even if you get one mechanism working perfect it really means nothing unless the other four are also behaving just right at the same time that the one mechansim is doing its thing. If your wheel fails it will be because of them not behaving the way they need to or you expect them to at that time. If tg was back here he would tell you to start using wm2d and always work with five mechanisms at the same time. Going to all the trouble of making five perfectly working by themselves mechansisms that wind up not working perfectly together will probably spell the final end of your wheel building. I know it would me if I was a builder. But good luck anyway.
ReplyDeletemike
So mike/TG/KenB how's that failed design of yours going? Still wasting time playing with your cords and springs.
DeleteThanks Mike.
DeleteJC
The sun is starting to set here in the west, so I wish all of you the best Easter.
ReplyDelete->
Hey there, I don't have much to contribute, I just wanna say this blog (and the comments as well) is fascinating and I enjoy reading it very much. So thanks. :)
ReplyDelete-Jake