Thursday, 18 February 2021

Johann Bessler aka Orffyreus and Numerology

There has been much written about Johann Bessler and how he may have used numerology.  I haven’t found any evidence that he did use it, although he may have been more interested in gematria.

He used alphanumerics to provide clues but they only led to further encoded clues. To get his pseudonym, Orffyreus, derived from his name Bessler, he used albam, a simple alphabetic substitution cipher originally used by Hebrew scribes to disguise the names of certain people they mentioned in their writings. Later it was known as the Caesar shift cipher used by the Romans. Today we refer to it as ROT13

He also used numbers in his drawings to achieve a certain total which would reveal a geometric design. He was fascinated by chronograms and produced numerous examples.  In an ordinary sentence he used certain Roman numerals which could be obtained from letters of the alphabet, to provide dates.

He used other codes but nowhere to my knowledge does he even hint at numerology. I see that , ‘the English word numerology is of recent origin, coming into existence around 1910 A.D. (dictionary.com). It is a combination of the Latin word "numerus," meaning numbers, and the ending "logy," which is used to designate the study or science of something. The definition of numerology, therefore, is the general study of numbers.”

I looked briefly into numerology and although it is a popular among some people it is generally regarded as a superstition. This is one reference among many that read,

Actually the numerology I use is based on origins of the contemplations of philosopher Pythagoras back in ancient Greece. He was not just a mathematician, but looked at what was behind numbers. The study of the vibration and effect of numbers is in the Bible (like in the Kabbalah), and pondered by philosophers, theologians and scientists way back in time. The actual onset of modern numerology, where each number has a certain meaning and the letters of the alphabet is assigned to a certain number, has most probably become standardized into a system in mid 1800s. Pythagoras and Chaldean methods are the most popular systems.”

I’m not expressing an opinion on numerology, just that I remain sceptical, but I would be delighted to be provided with proof of its efficacy. This would be nigh on impossible because all results could be coincidental. The interpretation of names, dates of birth and astrology are all in the same grouping along with religious belief systems - a matter of personal conviction.

So if modern numerology only became established in the mid 1800s it seems unlikely that Bessler would have used it. Gematria, on the other hand seems a more likely system used by Bessler. According to Wikipedia, ‘ an alphanumeric code  of assigning a numerical value to a name, word or phrase based on its letters. A single word can yield multiple values depending on the cipher used.’.

It is clear that Bessler was familiar with the albam/atbash system used by the Hebrews and therefore other alternative but similar systems, too complex to deal with here but certainly studied by Bessler, in my opinion. But even acknowledging his personal knowledge of such systems, there seems little of value in deciphering his works to try to get additional meanings from them. Such techniques reveal themselves as nonsensical words.

There is one place where such elaborate methods might hide meaningful information and that is within the ‘Declaration of Faith’, in Apologia Poetica, chapter 55. There he presents about 141 Bible verse references with differing abbreviations, and quotations for verses a few of 
which seem not be found. For more information about my own attempts to decipher its hidden meaning visit my web site at http://www.orffyreus.net/

I think that numbering his fingers etc, in aid of a numerological interpretation is a road to nowhere.  The gesture itself may be designed to send a message, but perhaps it was just another example of Bessler’s delight in adding mystification to engender curiosity in the genuinely encoded material.

JC

92 comments:

  1. Doesn't Bessler hint at clues based numbers such as 3 and 55?

    He places emphasis on numbers, maybe for religious reasons, and that is numerology.

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    1. Was is it not III and V, after adding this two you get VIII

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  2. I assume that Bessler was probably as superstitious as anyone else, then or now.

    IIRC he hunted treasure at one time and did some alchemy. He probably had 'lucky' numbers, and hedged his bets when he could, either consciously or subconsciously. Also because he was a devout Christian he would have been influenced by those teachings and belief system (including numbers). And if he was very familiar with Masonic traditions (RC etc) and was a student of sacred geometry then he couldn't help but absorb their 'rationale' and tradition also.

    Therefore imo certain numbers and number combinations would have influenced him in daily life and decisions, and probably feature in his writings and drawings etc.

    The question is are they perceived good luck charms, or clues to his successful 'runner' principle, or both ?

    Whether he believed someone was destined to certain traits from their birth dates I don't know. It would mean that an awful lot of people today born on the same day, month and year etc, would have very similar personalities and traits etc. Which should be able to be sampled and confirmed as statistically significant. And you'd only need to find a few extreme exceptions amongst all those alive today to upset the statistical degree of accuracy (Confidence Intervals).

    -f

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  3. I think that John's interpretations of how Bessler used different ciphers and codes is accurate as far as it applies to his various esoteric and religious beliefs. Unfortunately they tell us nothing of any significance when it comes to the actual mechanical details of his wheels.

    Bessler used a very simple alphanumeric system when it came to encrypting the details of his wheels. Each of the 26 letters in the German (as well as English) alphabet was assigned a value from 1 to 26 such that A=1, B=2, C=3 and so on to X=24, Y=25, and Z=26. If one believes in Ken B's decoding of the clues in the two DT portraits (I now definitely do), then certain letters and groups of letters in the German words under the portraits can, when alphanumerically analyzed using Bessler's simple system, provide various measurements. Those measurements then describe the parts used inside of his working pm wheels (but there are other non alphanumerical type clues in the two portraits that are also very important).

    Bessler was not trying to use those derived alphanumeric values to spell out other words via ROT13 or make references to any Bible verses. Those looking in those directions to find the secrets of Bessler's wheels are only wasting their time. The two DT portraits are, literally, carefully alphanumerically encrypted schematics for reproducing Bessler's wheels.

    His main purpose in creating the two portraits was to be able, if need be, to point to and decode their encoded parts' measurements at some future time after DT was published just in case some other inventor happened to make a pm wheel identical to his, either by chance or after stealing his secret design, so that Bessler could then prove that he, Bessler, had priority to the design and therefore a legal claim to some or even all of the money (in case someone actually stole his design) it might earn from its sale or use. I suspect he knew full well that if that need did not arise, which it didn't, then someday someone would come along and figure out what he had done and then use the information hidden in the two DT portraits to reproduce Bessler's wheels again.

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    1. The most obvious problem with accepting Ken B’s solution is that it doesn’t agree with what we believe we know about Bessler’s wheel. Karl said it was very simple. Bessler was concerned that people would not think his machine was worth the money once they new how simple it was. Ken’s wheel is too complex.

      JC
      .

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    2. Simplicity is really a very subjective quality. What one person considers simple another may consider complicated and vice versa. Last year many were saying the Bessler-Collins' Gravity Wheel was too complicated because of all of its pulleys and ropes. Ken's wheel contains, IIRC, a total of 40 cords, but someone who analyzed the design a few months ago said only 16 of them are actually critical to the coordination of its 8 lever's motions during drum rotation. That's only 2 cords per lever and that does not seem like too high a price to pay to make an OB wheel that actually stays OB while it turns.

      As far as that alphanumeric coding system anon 02:40 mentions is concerned, it makes some sense. If Bessler actually hid a numerical description of the parts of his wheels in the two DT portraits and wanted to be able to point them out later to people to prove some rival's design was just a copy of his, then that system would have to be something people could readily understand and the A = 1, B = 2, etc. system certainly is simple to understand. If Bessler had used some overly complicated rot13 type encoding system people would have quickly been confused about how he was pulling numbers out of it and they might then think he was just making them up as he needed them because he was trying to fraudulently grab some of the money being paid for the rival's genuine pm wheel. Bessler had to keep any alphanumerical system used in his drawings as simple as possible, imo.

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  4. It is very unfortunate we don't have complete and actual date of birth of Bessler... We could have easily found out what obstacles Bessler really faced in promoting his wheel... Was it unluck?... Numerology makes it possible to know such things... Very accurately... Was he aware of what troubled him?... Skepticism exists even today... many People don't believe in PM or BW possibility... Even Karl wouldn't have trusted Bessler entirely had he not revealed the wheel's interior... It is really a dillema... If you reveal you lose the secret... If you don't reveal no one believes... Even Karl's testimony did not help much... We face that situation even today... The secret could leak during patenting process... I have a feeling that it is due to our own fault and we are responsible for it... Many of us don't really know the wheel's secret yet we make false claims either deliberately or in an ignorant way... Numerology offers very remedies too... If Bessler had known this he could have taken such remedial actions... Most of peoples' date of birth don't carry all the success related numbers... They toil and toil till the grave... Bessler wanted to take advantage of gravity but ironically gravity killed him... What does this mean?... we don't know how much knowledge Bessler had about numerology... He could solve PM mystery but not life's intricacies... It is indeed a very sad story, isn't it?...

    We badly need a Karl today, don't we?... JC sir could become a Karl but he won't... He has his own plans... I would suggest he should seriously consider this atleast in his last days...

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    1. Years ago someone showed up here and claimed he had a very accurate estimate of when Johann Bessler (whose name then was just Elias Bessler) was actually born. It was not in the year 1680 as most think which is based on a date on his baptismal certificate, IIRC. That guy said he had concluded that Bessler's actual birthday was in early May of 1679. IIRC again, it was either the 5th or 6th of May. If so, that means Bessler was born under the astrological sign of Taurus. Taurians are supposed to be very stubborn and persistent types and that trait certainly describes Bessler.

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    2. I wrote about Bessler’s birthday both here and in my updated version of my biography of Bessler which I haven’t finished yet. He was christened on Tuesday 6th May, 1681. This date was the date the information was entered in the parish records, but was usually two or three days after the actual birth.

      JC

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    3. Anon 15:42 must have remembered that guy's comment incorrectly. Maybe if the baptismal certificate for Elias Bessler was dated May 6th, 1681, that past poster was suggesting he was actually born a year earlier or May 6th, 1680?

      We'll probably never know for sure exactly when his birthday was and he never mentioned it in his writings. They must have celebrated birthdays back then because didn't Bessler make some sort of birthday card poem for Count Karl every year? But if he was actually born a few days before the date on the baptismal certificate, then he would definitely have the astrological sign of Taurus. Here are some of the personality traits of Taurians I found online:

      "Taurus is generally quite stubborn in a lot of areas in their lives - they have a strong dislike for change, and once they settle down with their routines, it can take a great effort to get them to change. They are not just stubborn, but also strong willed. They tend to stick to their guns and be very methodical about their approach to actions. Many under this zodiac sign therefore are full of integrity. Their determination and diligence is also the reason that many Taurus zodiac signs find success - they are hard workers that don’t mind getting their hands dirty, and always see that what they set out to do is completed."

      Sounds like it could apply to Bessler.

      Bessler Curious

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    4. By ‘christened’, I mean ‘baptised’ and presumably that would need a pt least a short time to arrange.

      JC

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  5. Sam, another massive thank you for your kind generosity!

    JC

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  6. So the solar panels and wind mills in Texas aren't working out as planned. I was going to say something like "If the sun ain't shinning and the wind ain't blowin these green energy devices are piece of crap". But then I heard TX bought warm weather windmills so we can't use the cold as a complete excuse. But what we can take away from this is, green energy does not and will not replace fossil fuels, at least until something new comes along, and that something could just be a gravity wheel. We know for sure gravity runs night and day, summer through winter. This should give us all an incentive to keep trudging on, to find a PM solution, whether a Bessler Wheel or not.

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    1. Actually, "Green Energy" solar panels and wind turbines only supply about 10% of Texas' electrical power and most of what failed WAS fossil fuel power plants.

      They had a similar freeze up about ten years ago and the experts then all warned the Republican politicians in that state that they needed to "winterize" their power generation system. That advice, however, would have raised the cost to the Republican capitalist owned businesses for electricity so it was quickly ignored. God forbid businesses pay a penny or two more per kilowatt-hour to have a more secure power generation system that could withstand another deep freeze cold spell. Over in Norway, they winterize all of their wind turbines and, even though the temperatures there are regularly just as cold as they've been in Texas in the last week, their wind turbines are all working just fine.

      To make matters worse, the Republican politicians in that state decided to have their own state power grid that was isolated from the larger common power grid shared by surrounding states. That was done so they wouldn't have to follow any of the federal government regulations that other states agreed to follow. Wouldn't want to do that...it would be allowing their US Constitutional right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of rip off profits to be infringed upon! Unfortunately, because of that blunder, it meant that Texas could not tap that outside power grid to make up for the electrical power not being produced by their own frozen up power plants. Another stupid decision made by incompetent Republican politicians.

      As a result of all of this, millions of Americans are now living almost at the level of prehistoric cave people! No food, no water, no electricity, no heat, and often no cell phone or internet service. All thanks to incompetent Republican politicians and the money hungry Republican capitalists who always seem to have plenty of money to fund their political campaigns! Now the Republican politicians involved in the recent and still ongoing Texas disaster are doing what they are famous for doing when their incompetence and greed puts the lives of average families at risk...engage in massive blame shifting and accountability avoidance.

      One of their two Republican US Senators had his own unique solution to the crisis there...he hopped on a plane headed to Cancun, Mexico to wait it out! When spotted at the airport and exposed, he quickly announced he'd changed his plans and was headed back to Texas to "help the people there"! So far, no one knows exactly what he's doing to "help" anyone, but his home seems to have plenty of electricity and running water. Meanwhile, he continues to collect his nice, secure $190,000 per year salary for being a US Senator that is taxpayer funded.

      The federal government has delivered 60 industrial electrical generators to Texas to ease their electrical power shortage along with the diesel fuel needed to power them, but so far everything is just sitting on an airport tarmac. Maybe they'll install them come spring?


      Anonymous and PROUD of it!

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    2. I think we'll see those Texas power plants being winterized very quickly now. One estimate I saw said that the insurance companies are going to have to pay out about $18 BILLION dollars on all of the claims for the water pipes that froze and burst and all of the damage done to buildings and homes by the water. All of that cost will eventually be passed right back to the citizens of Texas who will be finding their insurance premiums rising in the coming years because the rich capitalists who invest in those insurance companies have no intention of taking any losses. If Texas had winterized its power system in the last decade, the cost would have only been a fraction of that amount.

      As Climate Change worsens, they have to worry about those sub zero cold spells happening every winter from now on. Now just watch how the republican politicians in Texas are all suddenly in favor of winterizing their energy production system as each tries to make it look like he actually wanted it done years ago. Incompetent politicians are always trying to rewrite history to make themselves look like geniuses who were ahead of their time in the past. The truth is they are just as stupid now as they were back then!

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    3. That situation in Texas is a real mess. Even their nuclear power plants shut down. The cold froze up sensors needed to operate the plants. If the sensors start working erratically then the computers that control a plant automatically put the plant into shut down mode and it stops generating electrical power. None of their nuclear power plants were winterized. Being "winterized" means at a minimum that something can continue to work normally even if the air temperature drops down to minus 10 degrees Fahrenheit. For maximum reliability down to minus 50 degrees is best but it costs more to achieve that.

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    4. A lot of people think what happened in Texas last week proves Global Warming is a hoax. But, that's not true. It turns out that Global Warming (now more properly called "Climate Change"), which is mainly due to fossil fuel combustion carbon dioxide emissions, is causing the average winter temperature in the Arctic region to increase at about double the rate of the rest of the planet and that is causing the ice up there to melt faster and expose more dark ground or ocean water that can then absorb more solar radiation and heat up the air above it even more. It's what's called a "positive feedback loop" and the temperature up there will keep increasing and melting even more ice year by year.

      That warmer air up there then expands the bubble of cold air over the Arctic region and forces it to cause wrinkles to form in the "polar vortex" which is a wall of air swirling around the Arctic region that helps to keep the frigid air trapped up there. Some of those wrinkles can extend as far south as Texas and expose about 1/3 of the US to subfreezing temperatures. What happened in Texas last week is just the beginning of what will be happening every year around the globe unless the entire world gets serious about switching away from fossil fuels and as soon as possible.


      Anonymous and PROUD of it!

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    5. Even Bessler had to winterize his wheels!

      There was an incident when the Merseburg wheel, during a demonstration, suddenly slowed to a stop. It turned out that the room he had the wheel in wasn't heated enough and on one particularly cold day before Christmas it was so cold that it congealed the lube he put on the axle pivots. The wheel's low torque was unable to overcome that excessive drag and the result was a stalled wheel. It must have shook up the people there who were watching it all because a "perpetual motion" wheel isn't supposed to just stop like that. I'm sure Bessler then quickly winterized his wheel after that by not skimping on the firewood he was using in the room's fireplace during future demonstrations. (Did they have cast iron stoves back then to burn wood or coal in?)

      @AAPOI
      You're exactly right about how Climate Change is working. Right now the average temperature in the Arctic is an insane 25 degrees F warmer than it would normally be! The rate of change of climate is also now the fastest it's ever been. One lady professor of climatology I heard speak says she thinks we should change the name "Climate Change" to "Climate Weirdness" to better describe what we're all going to be experiencing in the coming years.

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    6. Anon 18:51 asked: "Did they have cast iron stoves back then to burn wood or coal in?"

      According to Britannica.com: "The first manufactured cast-iron stove was produced at Lynn, Mass., in 1642. This stove had no grates and was little more than a cast-iron box. About 1740 Benjamin Franklin invented the “Pennsylvania fireplace,” which incorporated the basic principles of the heating stove."

      I'm sure if they were making cast iron stoves over in the colonies in the mid-17th century, then it's possible that Bessler could have had a European version in the early 18th century in that house he rented. If he did, then it might have looked something like this:

      https://i.pinimg.com/originals/8d/02/0d/8d020dd4ee697bbcbb890b87e9762999.jpg

      Bessler Curious

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    7. Interesting story in the news today from Texas.

      No everyone in Texas lost electrical power during the recent cold spell there. One company had a great idea, at least their Republican capitalist owners thought it was a great idea. To recover ALL of the money they lost while most of their power plants we're not working, they simply passed all of that cost onto their small percentage of customers who had still been getting electricity.

      One woman who got her electricity from them usually paid about $86 per month. She recently got the latest bill from them...it was for $6,000 dollars even though she used no more electricity than usual during the cold spell! No, her bill was NOT a mistake. She had arranged for the electrical power supplier to automatically take the amount of her monthly bill right out of her bank checking account. They tried to do that, but only managed to grab $2,000 out of it before the balance dropped below the minimum $200 she had to keep in the account to keep it open. At that point the bank stopped payment. But, her $2,000 is now gone. Many others got the same treatment from this Republican capitalist owned power company.

      Needless to say, all hell is breaking loose over this one. Amazing what capitalist greed can do to people! The message from this is clear. NEVER give your financial information to any utility company along with permission for them to drain your bank checking account for whatever amount they claim you owe them because once they grab it, you most likely won't be seeing it again. Just write them a check every month and mail it in. That way you can stop payment immediately if you see them trying to pull something on you.


      Anonymous and PROUD of it!

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  7. Check out what this guy came up with:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwuK-ENHJHM

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    1. Wow! It's beautifully made. I can't see any obvious way it could have been faked. If he had it available in kit form I'd buy one right now!

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    2. Save your money, anon 16:07. His "self-moving" permanent magnets invention is easily faked. He's most likely got a larger magnet being spun by an electric motor that is hidden under the wooden table top. That magnet couples to the large one in the center of his toy and keeps it spinning. It then keeps the four outer smaller magnets spinning. Let's see him repeat his demonstration using a table with a clear top so we can see there's nothing being hidden from view. But, you'll never see that because it would instantly expose his fraud. Youtube is filled with fake pm invention "click bait" videos all being made over in countries like India and Pakistan. The channel owners monetize their channels and can earn about $2000 US dollars in ad revenue for every 10 million views one of their faked videos gets. $2000 isn't much money in the US, but over there it's almost a year's income. Better making and uploading these fakes then working in some sweat shop factory over there.

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  8. With reference to my comment re Johann Bessler’s date of birth, the baptism is recorded as 6th May 1681 but that was in old style dating (OS). New style (NS) did not arrive here until 1742 so to convert to new style you’d have to jump forward eleven days, which I think makes his baptism take place on 16th May 1681.

    I don’t t know what effect this would have with regard to astrology and numerology?

    JC

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    1. The Sun appears located in the constellation of Taurus from about April 20th to about May 21st, so Bessler would still be a Taurean if he was born on May 16th.

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  9. It is better not to look up when We are not very sure... We need to maintain the sanctity of these occult sciences... The credibility is lost when misused or wrongly interpreted... I have made a lot of observation and have concluded that certain things which even religion or science fail to answer can be known through numerology or astrology...

    People usually don't give much regard to occult but if you know how to use it you can benefit a lot...

    Bessler's life was tragic and very significant... Such things are influenced by planets Uranus and Saturn... Number four represents Uranus and eight Saturn... The birth date should work out to 4 (4,13,22,31st of any month) and death date to 8 accordingly... A person becomes famous after death if his death date is 8th of any month or the total dob works out to 8... 4 and eight are tragic numbers... Also, a person born on 4th, 13th, 22nd or 31st, faces chances of sudden tragic death...

    For example:
    John F Kennedy... Was 35th President..(3+5=8).
    He died on 22nd Nov 1963...(2+2=4)...

    Martin Luther King jr death date 4th April 1968... Number 4 is unlucky...

    Newton Sir...born January 4th... Famous
    Died March 31... Again four...

    The list is endless if you probe...

    I was born on 13th and when I shifted into a house bearing number 4 I faced hell and was on the streets within days after losing everything...

    We can get a good insight into bessler's life if we are cocksure about his dates... But there's uncertainty here... Hence, we don't attempt...

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  10. 13th deciple betrayed Jesus... 13th also totals to 4 is unlucky... Jesus was crucified on April 3, 33 AD...(total singled to 8)

    Some buildings don't have 13th floor... Room number 13 is missing in some hotels...

    Space shuttle challenger maiden flight date is
    4th April 1983... (4 unlucky)
    Exploded on Jan 28th 1986...(total singles out to 8 which is tragic)...

    Do we need more evidence to prove the adverse effects of number 4 or 8?...

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    1. Jesus only had 12 disciples unless you want to include Mary Magdalene. Jesus could have been executed on Friday, April 7th, 30 AD because there was also a total solar eclipse in Jerusalem on that date. But 7, according to SoS, is supposed to be lucky. Bessler died on Tuesday, November 30th, 1745 AD. 3 + 0 = 3 which is not 4 or 8 so it shouldn't have been unlucky for him. Something is wrong with your numerology, SK.

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  11. BW is supposed to carry 8 weights, isn't it?

    The eight banging sounds...

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    1. If you accept Fischer von Erlach’s assumption. I don’t.

      JC

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    2. I think the mechanics shown in Ken's wheel could be made to work with only five weight carrying levers (or six or seven and maybe nine levers but probably not less than five or more than nine). All that would need to be done is make the connecting cords longer. But, for the same mass weights, there is an advantage to using eight instead of five levers. With eight levers you have a displaced CoM that is 60% heavier. That means you will get 60% more torque at the axle from an eight lever wheel. Of course, you could get the same torque by just making the weights in a five lever wheel 60% heavier.

      One big advantage of a five lever wheel compared to an eight lever wheel is that the five lever wheel, if it uses Ken's design, would need less connecting ropes. IIRC, his design needs 40 ropes. If I understand his wheel's connectedness principle correctly, then a five lever wheel should only need 25 ropes. Generally, the less parts in a machine, the more reliable it tends to be. Also, assuming Bessler did use eight levers in his wheels, he may have done it more for numeralogical or religious reasons than for mechanical ones.

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    3. @anon 21:00

      Bessler wrote in MT that Jacob Leupold could have made his nonrunning pm wheel work by using Bessler's "connectedness principle". The wheel Bessler was referring to is shown in the lower right corner of this page in one of the volumes on mechanics Leupold published. It has twelve levers with weights at their ends:

      https://mostre.museogalileo.it/motoperpetuo/images/schede/24_Leupold_73.jpg

      jason

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    4. Bessler's MT : re. Leupold.

      No. 2 Almost unanimously the mobilists for whom the spheres were the main principle have chosen figure for the most part like this one; such a figure has already been encountered in various books on mathematics and mechanics, and from the figure the mathematicians generally showed the impossibility of perpetual motion, just as though one could not bring forth a better figure as evidence. In particular, Jungnickel, in his almost peculiar book titled Key to Mechanics, pages 243, 246 and 247, has presented three such machines and intended to prove and enforce the impossibility of perpetual motion. Sturm also uses this figure, and even the late Leopold uses it in his Machine Treatise, of which he prepared 8 sections but did not complete because of his death.

      No. 9 Because one has learned that little is to be accomplished with the sphere-wheels like those just now seen in the figures and diagrams, one speculates on another principle, namely: on weights! In all places where I have found weight-figures, these weights are seen to be simple and nothing is attached to the belts or chains. Such is the case with Leupold, but nothing is to be accomplished with his thing unless one acts out of my connectedness principle; but here I do not yet wish to show or discuss the figure for the time being.

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  12. If you add all the digits and single it out you'll find 4... (3+0+1+1+1+7+4+5=22=2+2=4)...
    So bessler's death day singled out is a 4...

    There were 12 desciples and jesus included it becomes 13... Which is a unlucky number... (1+3=4)

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    1. Jesus wasn't a disciple! Disciples are followers of some leader or teacher. There were only 12 original disciples, the Apostles, who followed Jesus...unless you include Mary Magdalene.

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    2. We are Just concerned with the numbers... When 13 people come together something isn't favourable...

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  13. Even if you consider the year Bessler died (1745) you will find that 1+7+4+5=17 which is again 1+7=8... Tragic...

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  14. Bessler had huge enemy followers... Is it possible that he was pushed to death?... Or can this be ruled out outrightly?...

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  15. Bessler was half starved, sick, and 65 years old. He could have climbed to the top of the windmill and then had a stroke or a heart attack or just a dizzy spell and fell off of it. A large lost of body fat due to too little food being consumed can cause plaques in blood vessels to go from being plump and smooth to being loose and baggy and then a sudden increase in blood pressure can snag them and suddenly tear them open. Once the gunk inside of them enters a blood vessel it causes a blood clot to immediately form and if this happens inside of a coronary artery and cuts the blood flow to the heart muscles off completely, it can be fatal. Most likely Bessler was the only one on top of the windmill at the time and trying to do some heavy physical work by himself. A lot of senior citizens overdue it with physical exertion because they don't have anyone younger and healthier around to help them now that the "extended family" has become a thing of the past in the West.

    An 80+ year old woman who lived about a mile from me was active in various local church and social groups. We had a snow storm one winter night and a city snow plow truck drove down her street and pushed the snow up against the side of her car which was parked on the street. The next morning she was in a rush to get to a meeting and ran out with a shovel and started trying to clear the heavy wet snow away from her car by herself so she could get the car out. About a half hour later someone driving by noticed her body laying in the street. She'd had a massive heart attack and fell down dead on the spot. That's why they call wet snow "heart attack snow". Anyone over the age of about 60 who is not in excellent physical shape should never pick up a snow shovel! In one out of three heart attacks the only symptom is sudden DEATH!

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    1. Heart attack? Stroke? NO! Let me tell you all how Bessler REALLY died.

      First, like about 99% of the males back then he was an alcoholic and probably a wine alcoholic because Saxony was a wine growing region with plenty of cheap wine available for everyone. Like most alcoholics, toward the end Bessler would have been getting most of his calories from alcohol and not food. He would have had all sorts of vitamin and mineral deficiencies as a result. Any money left over after he paid for his booze probably went to provide food and firewood for his second wife and children he had with her.

      The Sunday before he died he had to attend Church and did not want to show up drunk so he would have cut back on his boozing that day. The next day, Monday, he would have made up for it with a lot of wine binge drinking. He would have gotten nothing productive done that day.

      The next day, Tuesday, November 30, 1745 he probably slept late and woke up with a hangover from hell from his prior night's drinking. He realized he hadn't done much on the windmill and was way behind schedule. He then rushed out to the site and by that time was feeling really sick. Wine hangovers are the worst...trust me, I know!

      Many alcoholics with hangovers treat the symptoms by drinking some more alcohol which can help (they used to call that "taking a hair of the horse that bit you"!). As he started to work on the top story of the windmill the cold November wind kicked up and he started to feel a really bad wind chill. His solution was to take some more wine to warm up his aging bones. He probably kept a few bottles in the windmill for such an emergency. Before he knew it he had finished off a quart bottle and was so cockeyed that he could barely stand up. He would have been stumbling around and seeing double. That's when he walked off the top of the building and fell to his death.

      When he hit the ground he may not have died instantly. He was probably so numb from all the alcohol that he barely felt it. But he would have had broken bones and internal bleeding. He probably died within the next 24 hours at most.

      A lot of alcoholics end that way. They get stinking drunk and then have some clumsy accident that is fatal. There was a movie actor years ago (can't remember his name) who was in a hotel in, IIRC, Kenya. He was doing something to raise funds to save lions or tigers or something like that. He got blind drunk and the hotel staff helped him to his room and just put him in unintended, closed the door, and left figuring he'd sleep it off. He wound up falling and gashing his scalp open on the end of a night table and knocking himself out. The next day they found his lifeless body laying in a pool of dried blood.

      Delete
    2. You might be right about that kind of ending for Bessler, anon 01:02. I can't think of anyone with better reasons to get drunk and stay drunk than him!

      Delete
    3. @Anon 1:02. IIRC that actor you mentioned was William Holden who had made some really great films in his day. Tragic ending...

      Delete
  16. We can never be sure of this... it could be anything...He was always unlucky except in discovering the secret... When he lived there were people always trying to undermine him... There would have been some eager to know the secret and angry with him for not revealing... The tragic number in the death date is intriguing...

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  17. It is mentioned somewhere that he didn't die instantly... He could have been easily cajoled into revealing the secret before he died in the hospital... There would have been many after the secret... Bessler possessed something of utmost value... And this is reason enough for someone to plot something...

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    Replies
    1. No Suresh, there is no documentary evidence concerning his death other than the article from long ago by the local authority from Furstenberg, which stated that he fell to his death from the windmill. Of course its possible that there is more information buried in some archive but to date it has not been found. I think I’m right in saying that the article mentioned above is quoting from local history familiar to those who live in the area.

      JC

      Delete
  18. @ SK .. can you find examples of where people were born with 4 & 8 and were successful, revered, famous etc; and died with a 4 or 8 etc so can not be said to be tragic circumstances ? I think you can ?

    ReplyDelete
  19. Professor Gravesande...

    Born; 26, sep. 1688
    Died: 28, Feb.1742

    Birthday= 2+6=8.
    Birthdate=2+6+9+1+6+8+8=40=4+0=4
    Death date=2+8+2+1+7+4+2=26=2+6=8



    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This is nonsense, cherry picking, you take what fits your theory and trow out what does not:
      Death date= 2+8=10

      Delete
    2. @anon13:38
      That's also called "selection bias" and is a well known psychological effect. Basically, people find what they expect or want to find and minimize by explaining away or even completely ignoring what they don't expect or want to find. I think it's due to everyone wanting to show others how smart and perceptive they are by being able to prove something to them with the confirming evidence they've found. They can't do that if they don't have any confirming evidence, so their unconscious minds make sure the find that evidence or rather select it out of all of the evidence some or most of which does not confirm their beliefs.

      You see selection bias a lot in religions. Someone hears of a person who was seemingly miraculously cure of some disease after others prayed for his recovery and then claims that proves that God exists. But he ignores the many others who had the same disease with just as many people praying for him who did not recover and died from the disease. Selection bias is a very important part of maintaining a person's delusional beliefs.

      Delete
    3. I agree 100%, on the other hand, belief in what you do is also very important, as time passes, some (if not all) of that belief must turn into verifiable facts, if not, it will turn into obsession, and that could be worse than "selection bias".

      Delete
  20. Numbers four and eight are very intriguing in numerology... Great achievements were made by eminent personalities and some very tragic things too do happen from time to time associated with these numbers...

    Take for instance the case of Titanic tragedy... You will find the numbers four and eight appear at various phases from its launch to its doom....

    1. Titanic... The alphabets value works out to four,..T=2+I=9+T=2+A=1+N=5+I=9+C=3=31=3+1=(4)

    2. Ship Ordered on 17 Sep 1908...1+7=(8)

    3. Sinks in the year 1912= 1+9+1+2=13=1+3=(4)

    4. Sank 400 miles south of Newfoundland (4)

    5. Month it sank April...fourth month (4)

    6. Time it sank...2.20am... 2+2=(4)

    7. Launched on 31 Mar1911 in Belfast...3+1=(4)

    8. The ship had four smokestacks or funnels(4)

    9. Wreck located at 13000 feet depth...1+3=(4)

    10. Titanic movie premiered in 1997.Totals (8)



    ReplyDelete
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    1. Suresh, for every bunch of numbers you show that you turn into a 4 or an 8, someone else could come along and provide even more numbers associated with the Titanic ship that don't reduce to 4 or 8. You've become a victim of that "selection bias" that anon 16:43 described above and you don't even realize it. Most likely you, like many others, have also done the same thing with the "clues" you think you've found that "prove" to you that you know the secret of Bessler's wheels. Overcoming selection bias is not an easy thing to do which is why few can successfully do it.

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    2. It was cruising at 22 knots when it hit iceberg...2+2=(4)

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    3. 22 knots = 25.3171 miles per hour. 2+5+3+1+7+1 = 19, 1 + 9 = 10, 1 + 0 = 1. That gives us a 1 and NOT a 4 or an 8. Whether or not you get 4's or 8's depends only on the particular numbers that YOU select! It's just a case of "selection bias" as everyone here has been telling you all along, SK.

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  21. B=2
    E=5
    S=1
    S=1
    L=3
    E=5
    R=9
    ----
    Total=26=2+6=(8)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. What ?

      O = 6 (15)
      R = 9 (18)
      F = 6
      F = 6
      Y = 7 (25)
      R = 9 (18)
      E = 5

      ----
      Total = 48 = 4 + 8 = 12 = (3)

      Selection bias SK !

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  22. This is original german spelling of his name Beßler, ẞ=S, only one s, thus total=25=2+5=7, apparently 7 is a lucky number, you are wrong again SK.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I think that all of these 4's and 8's SK is finding really have little to do with destiny, but much to do with the fact that in an alphabet of 26 letters, the average alphanumeric value of a letter is 26/2 = 13 and one can then reduce that to 1 + 3 = 4. This means that most of the sums of the letters in words will be either odd or even multiples of 13 where an odd multiple is always reduced to a 4 and an even multiple is always reduced to an 8 . If our English alphabet had, say, 28 letters in it instead of 26, then the average value of each letter would be 28/2 = 14 which reduces to 1 + 4 = 5 and SK would then be showing us all of the unlucky people that he found whose name letters' alphanumeric values (ranging from 1 to 28) he could then sum up and reduce to 5's and 10's. This isn't real numerology. It's just a statistical quirk. I don't have any belief in it and I don't think anyone else should either.

      jason

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    2. I agree with everything you wrote about SK's 4/8 numerology being related to our English alphabet having 26 letters in it except for the part where you wrote "This means that most of the sums of the letters in words will be either odd or even multiples of 13 where an odd multiple is always reduced to a 4 and an even multiple is always reduced to an 8."

      Most of the sums of letters in words may be odd or even multiples of 13. But 39 is an odd multiple of 13 because 3 x 13 = 39, yet 39 does not reduce to 4, but rather to 12 and then to 3.

      Also 52 is an even multiple of 13 because 4 x 13 = 52, yet 52 does not reduce to 8, but rather to 7.

      What you wrote only works for a sum of 13 where 1 x 13 = 13 which reduces to 4 or for a sum of 26 where 2 x 13 = 26 which reduces to 8. Maybe you did not go farther than these two numbers in your analysis?

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    3. You're right, anon 08:01. I obviously messed that up by not carrying my analysis far enough. Thanks for pointing that out. However, I still have no faith in SK's 4/8 numerology and think it's only due to a lot of selection bias on his part.

      What happened to the Titanic is certainly a tragedy, but it shows what can happen when businessmen start compromising safety to increase their profits...people die! If the Titanic's captain hadn't been trying to break the world record for the shortest transatlantic crossing while ignoring iceberg warnings and the crewmen up in the ship's forward crow's nest had been supplied with binoculars, then they could have easily avoided that iceberg.

      All the passengers on that doomed ship had been told it had a double hull and was therefore "unsinkable". What they weren't told was that only the almost flat bottom of the hull was doubled. The sides of the hull weren't doubled and that's where the iceberg hit and made a large gaping hole. Added to that was the "watertight" compartments that weren't actually watertight and let the whole hull finally flood out and sink the ship. If they had told the passengers all of those little details, probably no one would have taken a chance on that ship's maiden voyage unless they dropped the ticket price to a fraction of what it was. That, of course, was something that would be unthinkable to the profit hungry businessmen who owned that ship! Profits first, safety last was apparently their motto!

      jason

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  23. Agreed. And there is the curious case of international date lines. Where some countries of birth and death are a day ahead of say the UK or USA. And we don't use Greenwich Meantime for numerology now do we ?

    What it shows to me is the human predisposition for superstition and selection bias as previously mentioned. And since this bias in often unconscious then it would be 'natural' to have some bias in interpreting Bessler's clues etc, as has also been tabled. How many of us have looked at the Toy's Page, or Bessler's drawings, or his poem, and been confident that our interpretations point to something tangible and significant ? Only to find on working it through that we were mistaken. Then a wee while later we have another 'ah ha' moment where previously unseen connections suddenly come into clear focus. Rinse and repeat. Selection bias seems the normal condition with incomplete information ! And it is very hard to stay clear of it.

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  24. Why do some countries prefer not to have street number 13...or thirteenth floor in a tower...or room number 13 in hotels...I even heard some airlines prefer not to have the 13th row in their planes?...

    Ancient beliefs aren't always untrue...

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  25. And some cultures see 13 as a lucky number. It is purportedly important in the Bible.

    Do you SK see 13 as an important number in Bessler's MT ? (it matters what he believed).

    Going by your reasoning it would be the exact opposite IINM.

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  26. You are right... Number 13 or 4 or 8 born people are lucky too... But there's a condition here... 4 and 8 are karmic numbers... If the individual born under such number don't follow their right path or their karma they stand to lose... That's it...

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  27. Also, such persons, to be on the safer side, should avoid such numbers, as far as possible, to avoid bad effects as same numbers increase the vibrations and may clash...

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  28. Hence, many go for name change or alterations as dob can't be changed... Numerology is good only if one knows the whole dimension of it and is able to know what to accept and what not... Otherwise, these occult practice wouldn't have been a multi-million dollar business... Countries like china and india know the advantages...

    ReplyDelete
  29. The thing is we Just don't for sure why Bessler opted a name change...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. There's really no big mystery to his name change, Suresh. He was into using codes and ciphers and drew the 26 letters of the German alphabet in a circle and then noticed by taking diametrically opposite letters, he could turn "Bessler" into "Orffyre". He added the Latin ending "-us" and got "Orffyreus" which sounded like "Orpheus" to him. He was familiar with the Greek legend of Orpheus and he identified with it. So, he used that as his professional name.

      Bessler wasn't the only guy back then to do something like that. Around 1516 a German-Swiss medical doctor named "Philippus Aureolus Theophrastus Bombastus von Hohenheim" began calling himself "Paracelsus". He got that name by combining "para-", which in Latin means "above or beyond", with "Celsus". "Paracelsus" then meant "above or beyond Celsus". Celsus was a famous 1st-century Roman medical writer and von Hohenheim was trying, by using the name "Paracelsus", to tell everyone that he was even greater than Celsus.

      He was justified in doing that because he, von Hohenheim, was a physician, alchemist, theologian, and philosopher of the German Renaissance. He helped pioneer several aspects of the "medical revolution" of the Renaissance and emphasized combining observation with past received wisdom. Bessler, who was considered to be a medical doctor because of all of the medicines he made up and sold, probably was familiar with and identified with von Hohenheim and was just copying him when he made up his own professional name of "Orffyreus".

      Delete
    2. Maybe the first person to improve upon Bessler's wheel by redesigning it to be more powerful so it can become a serious source of electrical power will then start calling himself "Paraorffyreus"!

      Delete
  30. The most likely scenario was :

    "--Pseudonyms--
    Pseudonyms can be used by artists (Künstlername, "artist's name") and members of religious orders (Ordensname); If a pseudonym is widely known in public it can be added to the passport of that person (under the weaker legal status of Künstlername) and be used instead of the original name in most situations. The same field in the passport also serves to show religious names, i.e. the new name somebody takes on when becoming a monk or nun."
    .....

    Occupational names are the most common form of family names; anybody who had an unusual job would have been bound to be identified by it. Examples: Gaschler (glass), Schmidt (smith), Müller (miller), Meier (farm administrator; akin to tenant, steward, sometimes also a bailiff), Schulze (constable), Fischer (fisherman), Schneider (tailor), Maurer (mason), Bauer (farmer), Zimmermann (carpenter), Metzger or Fleischer (butcher), Töpfer, Toepfer (potter) or Klingemann (weapons smith). Also, names referring to nobility such as Kaiser (emperor), König (king), Graf (count) are common, with the name bearers probably only a minor functionary of a monarch.

    for example :

    "Wagner
    Wagner is derived from the Germanic surname Waganari, meaning "wagonmaker" or "wagon driver". The Wagner surname is German. The name is also well established in Scandinavia, the Netherlands, eastern Europe, and elsewhere as well as in all German-speaking countries, and among Ashkenazi Jews."
    ....

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_name

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  31. My point was more or less , Johann(name) Bessler(surname) .

    He did not change his "name" , it was the "family name","surname", that was adopted as a pseudonym .

    It is also likely that the resulted encoded name "orffyreus" most likely had no previous existing meaning in the language , unlike other names /surnames , unless someone can show it ?

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    Replies
    1. He was born Elias Bessler. Added Johann Ernst and substituted Orffyreus for Bessler for well-known reasons.

      JC

      Delete
  32. Greed is evil root... I really have no idea what he meant...

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    1. Money (greed) is the root of all evil. St Paul wrote “ For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.”. 1 Timothy 6:10

      JC

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    2. To what is written, it may be added that the one who conquers (or has) the God's Fortress:
      Gospel according to St. Matthew
      Restraint in Judging. Hypocrisy.
      Mt. 7, 6 Do not give dogs what is holy, and do not throw your pearls in front of the pigs, lest they trample them with their feet, and turn around and tear you.

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    3. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    4. Evil roots can be quite delicious when cooked up and then served in a hearty stew containing some beef or chicken, potatoes or rice, and a few seasoning. Also, evil root ale is quite popular in my area and is home brewed by many. It has some hallucinogenic properties though so one should not imbibe too much of it or he can start to get delusional and even start to see things that aren't there. I'm wondering how many here might be doing that? If so, then time too cut back or abstain for a while.

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    5. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    6. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    7. Yes, anon 16:26. I LOVE Evil Root Ale! There have been attempts to duplicate its unique flavor by adding things like ginger, sarsaparilla, and vanilla extracts to regular root beer, but they just don't compare to the home brewed stuff, imo. Here's one of those mass produced commercial brands:

      https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DFDQOsEUMAABFbm?format=jpg&name=900x900

      For maximum effect you MUST drink the home brewed stuff! So it makes you a little paranoid...so what? That can help keep you on your guard...especially if someone is actually out to get you!

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    8. A lot of people don't know that years ago the Chinese were trying to flood the US with Evil Root powder in capsules to which they had added various drugs. Most likely they didn't contain any genuine Evil Root powder, just some red ginseng powder with illegal drugs mixed in with it. STAY AWAY from them if anyone tries to sell them to you. They can be dangerous. Here's the official US Food and Drug Administration's "Public Notification" about these dangerous fake Evil Root capsules:

      https://www.fda.gov/drugs/medication-health-fraud/public-notification-miraculous-evil-root-contains-hidden-drug-ingredient

      I agree with anon 16:42. Only use genuine Evil Root. You may even want to grow your own to make sure it's genuine. That's unfortunate, but sometimes necessary in this world of scammers and ripoff artists! Never buy Evil Root from any seller unless you fully trust them.

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    9. I thought all this talk about "evil root" was some sort of joke. But, it looks like it's a real plant. I use some medicinal herbs for health problems. I'll check this one out and see what its medicinal properties are. Thanks for making me aware of it.

      Delete
    10. Anon03:19
      There is no such thing as Evil Root. Don't waste your time trying to find it. These Evil Root comments are someone's idea of a stupid joke. Just ignore them.

      Delete
    11. @anon 3:19

      That anon 4:16 know it all guy is ignorant about the roots and probably never had a good mug of cold evil root ale in his whole darn life. I'd ignore him if I was you.

      It's best to grow your own roots and brew the ale from them youself. It ain't that hard to do. Also it's cheaper than the online stuff and that way and you can make a more potent ale from it. We just harvested a crop of dozens of the roots a few days ago. Here's a photo of my dear wife Tizzy pulling one of the full growed roots out of its pot. This here one weighs a good ten pounds or so. It'd set you back about $200 to buy the same amount of root online and then no telling how good it'd be. I always say just do it yourself and save. God bless.

      https://i.pinimg.com/564x/a0/b0/40/a0b04049dd4cb47476fd01c4971113d6.jpg

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    12. No offense intended, anon 06:02, but your wife looks like a witch! Nice size on that evil root you grew though. Any special plant food or fertilizer that you use to get them that big?

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    13. Careful how you talk about my dear Tizzy, anon 8:47. She ain't much to look at but she's a good God fearing woman who done bored me 14 children...or was it 15 or 16?...can't remember exactly now...'til her womb finally gave out. I think all the evil root ale we was drinking was the cause of that. It really puts a couple in the mood and for the older guys can put the lead back in their pencils real quick like.

      I found you get the biggest roots by growing them in pure manure. But you got to use only goat manure. I tried other manures but goat works best. Just make sure you wash them off good before you start to brewing them. I made the mistake of not doing that enough when I first started to brew my roots. Also keep their pots wet and out of the hot Sun. I grows mine in an old shed with only light from the windows coming in.

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    14. Puts the lead back in your pencil! I could certainly use something like that. Now I'm starting to realize what Bessler really meant when he said "Greed is an evil root". He wasn't quoting the Bible like everyone thinks. He was just saying that human greed was a powerful force just like evil root is a powerful herb. Bessler was probably told about evil root by that alchemist he rescued. Now I'm starting to think that's how Bessler's and Karl's wives popped out all of those kids they had...they were probably both using evil root regularly!

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    15. Contrary to what anon 04:16 thinks, evil root IS a real plant. It's also known as mandragora officianarum or mandrake root. Here's a photo of a crop being grown in pots:

      https://i.redd.it/knyr5m4alz711.jpg

      People take European mandrake root for treating stomach ulcers, colic, constipation, asthma, hay fever, convulsions, arthritis-like pain (rheumatism), and whooping cough. It is also used to trigger vomiting, cause sleepiness (sedation), reduce pain, and increase interest in sexual activity.

      Remember in the Old Testament how Abraham at age 100 managed to impregnate his wife Sarah at age 90 with Isaac? How was that done? Miracle from God? No. It was really mandrake root!

      But anyone who starts using or brewing this root better know what he's doing because it is rated as a DANGEROUS botanical if not used correctly. The alkaloids make the plant, in particular the root and leaves, poisonous, via anticholinergic, hallucinogenic, and hypnotic effects. Anticholinergic properties can lead to asphyxiation. Accidental poisoning is not uncommon. Ingesting mandrake root is likely to have other adverse effects such as vomiting and diarrhea.

      I'd advise anyone considering using this herb to NOT do it. There are probably other safer treatments for whatever health problem you have that you think evil root might treat.

      jason

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    16. Thanks for that info, Jason. Based on it I wouldn't touch mandrake or evil root with a ten foot pole.

      I found out why they called it "evil root". Aside from making people horny which was thought sinful, sometimes when they pulled a wild root out of the ground it made a sound like a scream! That spooked out the ancients who thought some of the roots had evil spirits trapped in them. They were very superstitious and thought that if anyone heard such a scream, they would die shortly after. Medieval books on herbs give all kinds of instructions for digging up the roots so they don't scream. Most likely those that died after hearing a scream did so because they were killed by taking too much of the roots they gathered!

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  33. But sir, why did Bessler mention this is not clear... What actually prompted to come up with this?... Did he feel guilty for quoting a high price?... Or was he referring to prof. Gravesande's curiousity to get the secret without paying for it?.…

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    Replies
    1. When Bessler spoke of Greed (Greed is an evil root), he could have been referring to something entirely different. What if the Greed he spoke of is what causes most if not all wheel designs to fail. What if he was referring to distance or height. His wheel designs in MT have weight shifts that are quit large in comparison to the wheel diameter. What if something more like 1/100 the diameter is all that will work.

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  34. I think the fact that Bessler went to such extremes to change his name (multiple times?) and to use symbology in his illustrations and writings suggests he was into some type of *ology.

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The True Story of Bessler’s Perpetual Motion Machine - Update

At the end of March we sold our house and moved in with my daughter, son-in-law and granddaughter, expecting to be there for no more than tw...