I think most of us are familiar with Bessler’s Maschinen Tractate (MT) and in particular the ‘Toys’ page and its curious numbering. At the foot of the page the numbers 138, 139,140 and 141. This totals 558. The 55 seems a popular number for Bessler, but what of the 8? Well the three numbers in 558 total 18 and that is the basic number in the pentagram, all the angles are multiples of 18. So that might be his intention., but later we’ll see further information about this suggestion.
MT 137 comes just before the toys page, as it should, but before that is MT 136 which contains a mechanical construction and is the last figure containing any such thing. MT137 shows a duodecagram, which is easily identified as circles of fifths, a well-known term used in musical theory. It is believed to point to the importance of the number 5. It also reveals the reason for the choice of number MT137.
Below is the image MT137, with the number 5 linked to 12.
On a clock face the time at 5 o’clock looks like the image below.
The angles between the hands is shown in the picture below.
Thus we see the reason for numbering MT137 as he did.
We can also see that he also embeds the golden ratio or mean as described by Fibonacci and Plato, in the picture below. This version comes from Euclid, 300BC.
To inscribe an equilateral and equiangular pentagon in a given circle….”
It seems as though Bessler intended there to be 141 images but having hidden or destroyed many of them that revealed the secret of his machine he was attempting to fill in the gap between his last image of a mechanical construction, MT136, and the Toys page image to total 141. But there was more to this than meets the eye. What other reasons might there be for choosing to accentuate the number141 ? Why else load the last image (the “Toys” page) and add four numbers to the bottom of the page?
The only factors of 141 are 3 and 47, and I’ve shown how Bessler embedded Euclid’s 47 th proposition describing how to construct a pentagram. So was this yet another hint.
See the image below, of the Toys page.
The items are lettered ABCDE, but C and D appear twice. To add to the confusion there is a plainly written 5, which might match the five lettered images but doesn’t seem to as there is rough drawing of a spinning top, lacking its string pull. Confusing?
Splitting the drawings into five parts reveals some information. In each division in 'A', you can see, drawn vertically, two uprights surmounted by a single one.. They bear a striking resemblance to the figures labelled 'C' and 'D', which are shown horizontally. But why two 'C' and 'D's? I think only one hammer is needed in 'C' plus the parallel rods. The same in 'D' but the hammer used is rotated around the other way to point outwards or to the left, because of the spirals and it also lacks arms.
So for me ‘C’ is an active part at the same time ‘D’ is passive. ‘A’ shows ‘C’ figures connected by a single rope or cord when ‘C’ falls it pulls ‘D’ up.
The item marked 'E' is the storks-bill, lazy tongs, scissor jacks or whatever you prefer to call them. Item '5' is a spinning top, just in case no one makes the connection that this is all about a rotating device. Without its cord or string it can’t work, just the same the other items on the Toys page. Maybe he’s suggesting the missing string, is present in Item ‘A’?
Item ‘B’ in my opinion represents the storks bill looked at from above with the alternate blobs showing the pins holding the storks bill together. Looking along the drawing the red lines connect two of the outer pins and two inner ones plus one more for the weight.
The top end of item ‘A’ shows the weight attached to the end of a lever. It shows two positions; one when the storks bill is closed and shortened; the other with the storks bill extended.
JC
Old nothing new
ReplyDeleteHi John,
DeleteIt has been about 25 years since we last communicated, I have been working on this puzzle throughout this time and believe I have a lot that I can contribute on this topic.
Firstly, the only true representations (that I can see) by Bessler are the drawings with caricature's, with the number combinations of 1, 3, 5 & 8, ie 138 as above (here representing the square wave oscillating/function).
As with many of the skeptics, they all fail to see that nature continually "Perpetuates" ie, everything in nature cycles from birth to death, be it atom, man or planet, Bessler obviously understood and mimicked or simulated this fundamental cycle in his "Wheel Pendular".
With this understanding that ALL natural systems follow this simple rhythmic pattern we can then apply this to his wheel.
We have many blueprints we can follow to understand this pattern, music for instance (since you like all music), we can understand the basic structure through this avenue, and yes, the Fibonacci sequence reveals the growth or applied steps within the structure, ie 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8 (being the first (primary) Octave construct that the wheel is based on (and every atomic structure). You can see that music is a blueprint, as it defines the code of the "Universe" or the "One Verse" for all creation.
I would love to speak volumes on this topic yet deaf ears seem to be order of procession!
If you or any of your audience are interested in developing this topic further, I am willing and able to share all, though it is a lengthy and detailed topic of understanding, so please tell me, What is the best way to open communication channels?
I look forward to hearing back, I'm down under in New Zealand.
I look forward to a healthy open discussion with you all.
Best Regards,
Godfrey K
vortech@xtra.co.nz
"At the foot of the page the numbers 138, 139,140 and 141. This totals 558."
ReplyDeleteWe all know what SoS would say about this if he was here. He'd immediately multiply the 5's to get 5 x 5 = 25 and say that, since the letter "Y" is the 25th letter of the alphabet, this is more proof Bessler used "Y" shaped levers in his wheels. Next, he'd look at the 8 and say that is more proof that Bessler used 8 levers in this wheels! In other words, Bessler's wheels must have used 8 "Y" shaped levers. Just as you are obsessed with the number 5, he is equally obsessed (maybe even more so!) with the number 25!
I noticed you deleted the original beginning of this blog where you said you were going to reveal everything "asap" when you get "tangible" results. I have to assume from that that currently you are not making any serious progress with your five lever wheel. My advice to you would be, for the first time on this blog, to set a FIRM date, announce it here, and if by that date you still do not have "tangible" results, then reveal everything and let the simmers go to work on it. If you really have nothing, then it's time to move on to another approach or call it quits. Whether we like it our not, harsh reality has a annoying habit of catching up with all of us.
Like CPK above I was expecting to see some of your "never before revealed clues" in this blog. But, all we have here is a rehash of clues that are over a decade old. It looks like there's still little interest in them. Regulars here want to see something NEW from you for a change. Where is it???
I'm also very disappointed that all we're getting from John again is repasted, years old clues that appear from time to time on this blog and for which there seems to be little interest. But, it is what it is. I do agree that SoS is obsessed with his Y shape levers, but, imo, he makes a convincing case for them. I dug through my old image files for this blog and found this numerology analysis of the Toys Page SoS revealed here years ago where he shows all of the 25's that show up on that page which he claims stand for the letter Y that he says is "the" shape of the levers Bessler used inside his pm wheels. Here's a link to SoS's past Toys Page numerology analysis:
ReplyDeletehttps://i.postimg.cc/02pVm9YQ/So-S-s-Toy-Page-Clues.jpg
What really impressed me about his analysis was that he pointed out the unusual shapes of those two axes that the lower two guys with spring like bodies are swinging up and down. If you look closely, you will see that the left axe is actually the letter T (which is tilted a little making it hard to recognize) and the right axe is actually the letter V! T is the 20th letter of the alphabet and V is the 22nd, but Bessler always uses it like the Roman numeral V which has a value of 5. So, according to SoS, you add the two numbers and get 20 + 5 = 25 which means the letter Y! Mechanically, the two axes themselves are actually levers so it looks like Bessler is telling us there, using numerology, that Y is the shape that his pm wheel levers had. I can't see any other interpretation of that clue.
SoS's analysis of the Toys Page clearly shows that it is loaded with clues that are "hidden in plain sight" as John would say. I want to see more clues like this in the other Bessler drawings. If you have any material like this John, then let's see it. What are you waiting for???
Your apparent obsession that Bessler used ‘Y’ shaped levers looks suspiciously like Ken B’s own fixation. Are you or SoS he?
ReplyDeleteJC
I had forgotten that extraordinary image SoS produced! It is amazing how a drawing can be interpreted in so many different ways, according what ever obsession a person is feeding. I know many people think I’m obsessed with Bessler’s wheel having five mechanisms, but I’m sure that none of them have Y’ shaped levers.
DeleteYou can make make-believe that SoS has found all these number and patterns and they can show us how Bessler’s wheel worked, but you’re just kidding yourself, they won’t help. My clues and interpretations shown the exact mechanisms and how they work, but it’s not easy and even though I know how his wheel worked putting it all together in the real world is hard. I’ve been tempted recently to reveal everything I know, but my family say “No, not yet, try to finish it if you can. You spent years looking for the solution, you can’t give it all away so close tho success”.
I agree and I appreciate their support, so I’ll keep going until I can’t finish it for what ever reason!
JC
The fact that the toys page can be interpreted differently according to any obsession about what it might mean shows that any interpretation is as useful (or useless) as any other.
DeleteIf your build is that difficult, doesn’t your gut tell you something?
No clue embedded so invisibly as Bessler did is going to open wide and clear. As you will discover when I publish what I’ve found you will understand why it has taken me so long to get to this point. I mentioned the Toys page as additional evidence of Bessler’s willingness to give up the number 5, but there is much more that has to be pulled together. I have the 5 mechanisms correctly constructed and moving well. But there are a few parts to fit before I can test it. I don’t want to give a date yet to publish everything until I know I’ve tested the whole construction to see if it works, but it will be before this year is out.
DeleteJC
I understand the clues took long to get to this point, it’s the build based on your interpretation of the clues that your followers seem more skeptical about. One of the most frequent quotes from the story is how simple it was to build (the actual parts that made it work, not the entire thing).
DeleteGood luck before the year is out.
Well, at least we now have a deadline for John's final "Big Reveal"...which will be before THIS year is out. So, at a maximum only a little over another two months to wait! Let's see now if it actually happens by New Year's day 2026...assuming his family lets him, of course!
DeleteI agree that SoS's past analysis of the toy page is impressive and I agree with anon 17:28 that he makes a convincing case for the levers having that unusual Y shape to them. Of course, IF SoS is right and John's levers are not Y shaped, then it follows that John cannot have Bessler's actual design no matter what "clues" John thinks he has. If he is actually delusional about the design it should become obvious within a few days of him revealing it here. Some guy in the last blog's comments swears that John will never show us anything, though. I got a feeling he's wrong this time.
About that toy page, I noticed something in it that I think everyone else missed! Look at the two little ax men on the bottom toy. Notice that they hold their axes, but they have no arms! All they have are those weird little coil springs for bodies with the axes sticking out of them. The little man on the left is swinging his ax up away from the log while the little man on the right is swinging his ax down onto the log (where some say they can see its blade chopping off someone's head!). If the axes represent Y shape levers inside of one of Bessler's wheels and we assume a wheel is rotating cw like the hands on a clock, then I get the message in this clue that Bessler used springs to LIFT the levers on a wheel's ascending side while also using the same springs to force the levers DOWN on the wheel's descending side. Maybe this was the trick he used to keep the center of gravity of the weights always on a wheel's descending side? Anyway, imo, this is a very important clue that gives us a hint as to how Bessler used springs in his wheels. Is John using springs in HIS wheel? If not, again, that would seem to indicate he doesn't have Bessler's design yet.
Over the years at various times some at BW.com have speculated that the D-men's clothing hint of coil springs used to assist the shifting of internal weights. A current member suggests they potentially are an integral part of a universal Prime Mover mechanism used to assist the lifting and restoring of GPE to internal weights i.e. the TP is primarily about the Prime Mover apparatus, and application. What can't be argued with is that Bessler drew the D-men quite differently from the C-men who appear ordinarily outfitted and yet they are the same toy in essence. One set ordinary, the other not ordinary ! One direction ordinary, the other not ordinary ! Only a blind man could not see that the reciprocating forces C & D-men toys own center page.
DeleteAnd the coils spiral down in opposite directions for each man.
DeleteI liked the way SoS multiplies the C values, then the D values, and adds them to get 25! CxC = 3x3 = 9 and DxD = 4x4 = 16 then add them to get 9+16 = 25 which he says represents the 25th letter or Y which was the shape of the levers according to him. In case nobody notices that's the Pythagorean Theorem! 3^2 + 4^2 = 5^2
DeleteThat vertically extended scissor thing on the left side is also interesting. It shows eight X shaped pieces connected together to lift the arrow shaped piece at the top up. I think Bessler is telling us that the eight levers in his wheels are interconnected and must work together to keep lifting the cog of the weights as the wheel turns. If that is the correct interpretation it means wheels with isolated levers are not what he used and probably cannot work. Now look at the individual X shaped pieces in the scissor thing. If you remove the lower right side leg of each one, you will have eight Y shaped levers remaining!!!
I'm not too sure what to make of the two men with the sledge hammers on the top toy. Maybe it's a clue about the heaviness of the weights at the ends of the levers since those men look bigger and stronger than the little guys below them that are just swinging axes? IIRC someone said Bessler used groups of three weights at the ends of the Merseburg and Kassal wheel levers. Maybe that's why Bessler put the letter C with value 3 near the sledge hammer heads?
It's amazing how much extra information can come out of a Bessler drawing when you really study it for a while.
Lol! SoS must have been on speed or something when he did his analysis of the TP! I count SEVEN clues that all show Bessler used those Y levers in his wheels. Isn't 7 another number Bessler liked because it was supposed to be divine and lucky ? Maybe there are exactly seven Y clues in the TP to let you know that if you use Y levers in your wheel you will finally feel like a god when get the luck you need to finally make a runner? If you can't though and the frustration becomes too much, then there's always that lower right ax man who seems eager to relieve one's suffering with a swift blow of his ax!
DeleteThe more we study the Bessler drawings the farther down the rabbit hole we all fall. Hope everyone's parachutes are in good working order! I think we still have much farther to fall.
JC wrote "My clues and interpretations shown the exact mechanisms and how they work, but it’s not easy and even though I know how his wheel worked putting it all together in the real world is hard."
DeleteLet's see. You don't have eight levers. You don't have Y shaped levers. And, you don't have any springs even though there seem to be MANY clues suggesting Bessler used all of these in his wheels. Yet you want everyone to believe that you know the EXACT mechanism that Bessler used?! Seems unlikely to me unless you are sitting on some REALLY amazing clues that no one, other than you, has found so far. But, I'm trying to keep an open mind. I will be following this blog and like others waiting to see what you finally reveal. You'll either have a brilliant and triumphant success or a colossal and embarrassing failure. Actually, I'm less concerned about who solves it just so long as it finally gets solved. Three centuries is a long time for a mystery to remain which supposedly involves a "very simple" mechanism that "a carpenter's boy could understand and build". Most will just dismiss it all as a clever hoax and move on to other matters.
I never ruled out springs but I only need them for a minor role in steadying the lateral movement which my mechanisms are subject to.
DeleteJC
Here is oystein’s interpretation for your amusement:
Deletehttps://orffyreuscodes.com/the-t
I keep reading about Y shaped lever clues here and someone said Ken B uses Y shape levers in his wheel design. Where can I find a drawing of his lever?
Deletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnHy7qZnpI4
DeleteThanks anon 21:03 for that link. I had not seen that video before. His design looks perfect but its cog is so close to the axle that the torque it would produce would be very small. But, then again, Bessler did say his prototype could just about keep itself in motion. Bessler's only solution for the low torque problem was to keep making bigger diameter wheels with heavier weights. Imo, that is a major problem with any kind of gravity wheel. It may work, but because gravity is such a weak force, the wheel has to be huge to supply serious levels of power.
Delete@anon 20:29
DeleteKen B had a video once where he showed how you could find Bessler's magic Y lever in the first DT portrait. You got it by drawing lines between points on his face and wig! If I can find the link for it, I'll post it here.
@anon 20:29
DeleteI checked my image files for you and managed to find one of Ken B's Y shaped lever that I grabbed from one of his old YT videos years ago. But, it was a bit blurry when I tried to enlarge it. I redid the edges to sharpen it up a bit and added an end on view. The lever is not a one piece flat Y shape. It is actually two somewhat thin parallel Y shaped pieces that are held a few inches apart from each other by wood pieces to make a lightweight but rigid structure. There are steel pins between the arms to which cords of various lengths must be attached using little metal hooks. One or more cylindrical lead weights that have holes bored through them are bolted to the end of the Main arm. To understand the details of how these cords work as a wheel is turning, you will need Ken's book. Here's my redone image:
https://postimg.cc/62SQ76XW
Another image for my collection. Thx, anon 02:15
DeleteYeah thanks anon 02:15. I didn't realise that the levers had widths to them with a lot of space between two pieces. Makes sense if they are going to hold cylinder weights at the ends. With holes through them that explains why Bessler didnt want anyone touching their ends. If they did theyd feel the holes and know they were bolted between two pieces like you show.
DeleteThanks, Ken but everyone already knows your design doesn't work.
Delete@anon 20:29 wrote: "Ken B had a video once where he showed how you could find Bessler's magic Y lever in the first DT portrait."
DeleteIt's definitely one of most bizarre clues to come out of the Bessler drawings. I did have a link to his YT video to find it, but it no longer works. My other links to his other videos also do not work. Looks like he's changed his YT channel for some reason. Anyway, I made this drawing from memory about how you find the lever in the first portrait. I'm not 100% sure it's accurate though. But, imo, there is no doubt that Bessler did hide the lever shape in that portrait.
https://i.postimg.cc/SNWVmsc6/Face-Wig-Lever-Clue.jpg
The shape he hid is actually upside down compared to the drawing that anon 20:15 provided us with. It is still supposed to be a lever at the 3 o'clock location of a drum, but maybe Bessler inverted it to confuse anyone looking for it? You first get the Y shape (yellow) using the portrait's pupils and the holes at the ends of two of the wig's curls. After that you can extend lines (red) between different points in the portrait and they will cross the lever at points to where the ropes and springs are supposed to be connected.
I think in his mind Bessler imagined the wig curls as symbols for the springs in his wheels. If so, then that means he used helical springs. I'm wondering if he also hid his "magic" lever shape in his other drawings. Shouldn't be too hard to find it since there are only like four other drawings.
Lol! No! There are no levers hidden in Bessler's wig! I think you guys are seeing things. Maybe as you were all falling down that "rabbit's hole" you bumped your heads on the walls? Should have worn a helmet. It's time to yank on your rip cords and deploy your chutes so you can slow down and come back to reality again.
DeleteWhy wouldn't B hide his lever shape in his wig? He's hidden clues all over the place so why not there too?
DeleteYears ago SoS showed up here with a very unusual clue he'd found. He put the two DT portraits next to each other side by side and edge to edge. Then starting with B's hand in the second portrait that holds the eyeglasses, he drew a straight line from the tip the thumb through the tip of the index finger of that hand. SoS then extended that line all the way over from the second to the first portrait.
The line reached right to the bridge of the nose in the first portrait! No big deal you would think because isn't that where one is supposed to place eyeglasses? But, SoS pointed out to us that real eyeglasses are meant to focus or magnify an image. That clue in the two portraits was really symbolic and meant B wanted us to focus on or study something in that first portrait's face, but what? Well, it turned out to be B's two EYES! Why? The reason became obvious. Studying B's two eyes was meant to eventually lead us to where B hid the lever shape which is what anon 12:36 just showed us. Thanks anon 12:36. I also vaguely remember seeing that Ken B video showing how you find the lever shape using B's facial features and the wig curls. Your version seems accurate to me.
After reading all of the above about wigs and levers and portraits, I had reached the conclusion that anyone believing in this kind of crazy nonsense must be a grade A nut case. So, I decided to put the two portraits together and see for myself if what anon 18:42 said was true. Here's what I came up with:
Deletehttps://postimg.cc/JD6yVcsb
I must now apologize for my initial reaction. He was telling the truth and my hat is off to SoS for finding something like this. If Bessler put a clue like this into his portraits, then I see no reason why he couldn't also hide his lever shape there as well. Now I'm wondering what other amazing clues there still are in his drawings that we haven't noticed yet.
Here's a slightly different way to find the lever attachment points:
Deletehttps://i.postimg.cc/9FXNf87C/altbeslev.gif
The German reads "To build my wheel you must find my lever."
Anon 12:36 said "I'm wondering if he also hid his "magic" lever shape in his other drawings. Shouldn't be too hard to find it since there are only like four other drawings."
DeleteThat gives me an idea. The next time SoS shows up here I'm going to ask him if he could find Bessler's magic lever hidden in one of the other drawings. Not just a bunch of number clues here and there that add up to 25 (not that they are not important), but the ENTIRE lever hidden somewhere else and I don't mean just simple alphabet Y shapes because you can find them in any corner where three lines come together.
I've looked many times and I don't see anything elsewhere that looks like a detailed lever to me, but then again I don't have SoS's eyes. That lever Ken B found in the first portrait's face and wig looks good, but you could use other points there and come up with a dozen other lever shapes that would not be Y shaped. I want to see if SoS can find that Y shape in any of the other drawings other than the two portraits. If he could do that it would make that Y lever shape seem more believable at least to me.
I can't think of anyone else who would be more able to find something like that if it exists than SoS. If he's agreeable then it could be the ultimate test of his psychic powers. No one here has ever made a personal request of him before, but I think he's the type who likes a difficult challenge and might accept it.
@anon 15:47
DeleteSo you expect him to find a complete lever that was hidden in the B drawings all along for the last 300 years that no one else noticed before? That's a very tall order imo. Maybe he could pull it off because he has found some really amazing clues for us in the past. But they were mostly in the MT drawings that only came out in the last two decades or so (thanks to JC). I'll be interested in seeing what SoS can find if anything. My gut tells me he won't find anything. If it was there it would have been noticed a long time ago with thousands of people looking for clues in those DT drawings.
I think Sos got me hypnotized! I took the anon01:16 drawing of the two DT portraits and wanted to see if I could find more clues in it. I did! I drawed a line down from Bessler's nose to his eyeglases like anon 01:16 did but kept going. It finally reached to the little knob on the top of that compass thing Bessler is holding. But if you take a look at that thing it's Y shaped!!! To me it looks like he's again telling you you'll find his Y lever shape by looking at his face in the first portrait. Sorry about the sloppy drawing I made. I don't do well with paint drawings.
Deletehttps://i.postimg.cc/RhXLDNC3/new-Y-lever-clue.jpg
Nice find! Worthy of SoS himself.
DeleteBessler's ghost approves of your discovery!
Deletehttps://i.postimg.cc/gc86NBW0/B-agrees.gif
Thanks anon 22:42 for calling our attention to that little knob on top of the divider that Bessler is holding in his lower hand in the DT portrait. I took a closer look at it and noticed that it has what looks like the letter X on it! As we learned from SoS over the years, when we see something like that, it means we have to multiply some numbers since X is the sign for multiplication in arithmetic. But, what numbers? I think the clue is that we have to multiply the number of fingers on each of his hands. There are five fingers on each hand so five times five equals...do I even have to write it?! This could be another clue that Bessler used those Y shaped levers that SoS likes so much.
Delete@anon 05:47
DeleteI decided to take a closer look at that knob on the divider tool in the second DT portrait using a high resolution image and found out that you are wrong about the letter on it. It's not "X" but rather "Y"! I put the image doubled into a Paint image with the one on the right side showing where the "Y" is located but you really don't need it to see the letter's shape.
https://i.postimg.cc/26RcT416/knob-y.jpg
If Bessler ever left "micro clues" in his drawings, this has got to be a perfect example of one. We have the letter "Y" connected by a straight line to a pair of eye glasses which are a symbol meaning to study something and then the extended straight line goes right up to his face in the other portrait. Then when you study that other portrait you find his "Y" lever shape hidden in it. After a while one can no longer ignore evidence like this. Imo, there is little doubt that Bessler's levers were "Y" shaped.
Damn! You're right. It is the letter Y and it's as plain a day. But you'd need a microscope to see it! How did B engrave something that small?
DeleteBessler didn't personally engrave those portraits in DT. He would just have provided a professional engraver with a exact sketch of what he wanted and then approved the final test prints. Whoever did the actual engraving must have been using a really big magnifying glass as he worked. Also, in Bessler's books we are only seeing the printed images. The engraved images would have to have been made as reversed mirror images so they would make the printed images we see!
DeleteSomeone at Besslerwheel.com bought the book and built it. Surprise! It didn’t work.
ReplyDeleteI remember that guy. He was from New Zealand, IIRC. Yeah, he "built it", but he built HIS version of it and others who had read the book noticed he did NOT follow Ken's very detailed assembly instructions. Mr. NZ just used scrap box pieces to cobble it together in a few days. He never disclosed the masses of the parts or the tensions of his springs he used. Apparently, the masses of the weights and other parts as well as the k constants of the springs have to have fairly precise values to create the delicate balance needed to make the wheel work. However, despite his crude approximation of the design, he did say it was self-starting from certain positions, but not others. He made, IIRC, only two posts on bwf and promptly disappeared. In his book Ken warns readers that they MUST follow his assembly instructions as closely as possible. That NZ guy also claimed he read Ken's 800 page volume in less than a week! Lol! I got the download and it took me over a MONTH to finish it! I think Mr. NZ just looked at a few illustrations in the book and then immediately thought he could duplicate it. No. It's a more involved than that.
DeleteHere is the topic, it looks like the sim, you need a google account to view the pix.
DeleteHis (Dave) workshop is impressive in that last photo. He probably followed the instructions accurately. Sorry Ken
https://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8663
"He probably followed the instructions accurately. Sorry Ken " "Probably"? Anyone online can claim they made an exact copy of anything. Means nothing.
DeleteThen he wrote: "The design though, is very clever, for as you slowly rotate the wheel through 45 deg., 7 weighted levers all move simultaneously, linked together with 16 fine cables ( hellishing complicated). some CW and some CCW and reposition themselves so that at the end of the 45 deg. the levers are all back in the same configuration as before. This is what he claims in the plans for the wheel, and that does happen with the model."
I think his version was not able to stay OB throughout all of the 45 deg. segments of rotation due to bad coordination of the levers which would be due to the lengths of the cords connecting the levers together not being precise enough. IIRC, even Bessler said he had to carefully "adjust" a wheel for a few days before it would run. With a low torque design like this, precision is critical to getting results.
Sorry Ken, but someone with that amount of tools is a great builder. I have no doubt the cables were the correct length.
DeleteLol! When JC's revealed wheel sims don't work watch him immediately use the same excuse. Why, of course they don't work...they just aren't precise enough! Please someone who knows what they are doing, sim my pentagon wheel to prove it's really a runner. Please!
DeleteClassic red herring fallacy, Ken.
DeleteHopefully I wont need a sim to prove my wheel works, but I’d still welcome as many as possible with any improvements needed.
DeleteJC
I think most here are hoping you find success. But if your build is sloppy and the design is low torque, you probably won't get any sustained motion from it. Then you will find yourself very dependent on sims showing it can work if accurately built and possibly modified a little. I'd ignore maybe the first few sims if they show it's a non runner. They will probably be hastily made and not too accurate. If it is in fact a runner then eventually an accurate sim will come along showing it runs. With two or more accurate working sims interest in it will mount and others may try building it for you. They will most likely be far better equipped than you.
DeleteThe big question will still remain, however. Is it actually Bessler's design or just a different one that happens to work? Not an easy question to definitively answer especially when basing a design on some of the most ambiguous clues ever devised by a true master of deception! The more clues you can reveal that support the design, the better. Considering how little interest commenters here showed for your Euclidean type clues, you need to show some other types of clues to convince people. For example, what is your design's lever shape and where did you find it in the Bessler drawings? So far in this blog all I'm seeing are Y shape levers especially that of Ken B. I want to see what YOUR levers look like.
Thanks for comment anon 13:41, I agree with what you wrote. My levers are straight with a weight on the end but they are part of a more complex mechanism, which accomplishes the so-called work-around to avoid the age-old problem we’ve all encountered, how to get the fallen weight back to its starting point with energy to spare.
DeleteJC
Sounds like you've found a miracle mechanism that can violate the 1st law of thermodynamics! According to the scientists that is physically impossible. I too will be eagerly looking forward to seeing how you and, supposedly, Bessler did it. Btw, where is that extra energy supposed to be coming from?
DeleteNo it violates no physical laws. All will be revealed very soon.
DeleteJC
"Very soon" sounds like it could be maybe before the end of this November! That would be nice because it would give the simmers time to work on it before the hectic Christmas holiday gets into full swing. Imagine how wonderful it would be for you to be celebrating Christmas knowing that several sims show your Bessler workaround is a runner! This coming Christmas could be the BEST one of your life with you receiving the ultimate gift... proof you've found the secret of Bessler's wheels!
Delete"All will be revealed very soon."
DeleteLol! Come the new year when everyone still hasn't seen anything from him, you will hopefully all finally realize why John has been called "The Great Disappointer" on this blog! Don't think anything will change just because it's a new year. We've been through this same bizarre cycle for YEARS now. This time won't be any different. Mark my words on this. At the last minute, he'll stumble upon some NEW clue in the Bessler drawings he didn't notice before and will be instantly and 100% convinced it's the FINAL one he needs to make his wheel work! Then it's time to delay, delay, delay...yet again. Let's see, his last excuse was that he couldn't reveal anything because his family talked him out of it. I'm wondering what his next excuse will be. I think it will have to be one that is entirely new so people won't say "oh no, not that one again!" Don't worry, he'll come up with something that sounds barely plausible. He's so creative especially when it comes to making excuses!
@anon 13:37
DeleteHis next excuse could just be no excuse at all! When asked how his wheel is doing and when he will reveal, he will just remain silent and try to distract by quickly changing the subject with a new blog. I've seen this "ghosting" technique used by owners on other blogs. Over time as newbies arrive and replace old timers who leave the blog or just die off they are unaware of the blog's past history and are too lazy to look it up. JC will be counting on that "amnesia effect" to take the pressure off of him.
We need a working solution and we need it as soon as possible. No more excuses, delays, distractions, and other "bait and switch" tactics. Bessler's wheels are, imo, at real risk of becoming "forgotten" from history without a working solution or if not forgotten, being labeled forever as just a clever hoax that no one ever managed to expose. Those who were interested in the subject will be viewed as a bunch of delusional nuts that should be pitied.
One difference between John and you, Ken, is he won’t be a pompous sock puppet if his wheel doesn’t work.
DeleteBESSLER'S TOP SECRET WORKAROUND FINALLY FOUND!
ReplyDeletehttps://i.postimg.cc/Z5zTqdL4/Bessler-s-workaround.jpg
That is a fair attempt at interpreting my comments about my wheel, but nowhere near unfortunately. Good try though.
DeleteJC
It's really a nice simple design and could work...IF the CoG of the five weights stays to the right of the wheel's axle during rotation. It would be self-starting and one direction only. However, the torque would not be constant. It would pulsate and reach a maximum every 72° of wheel rotation. Shouldn't be too difficult to sim either. But, I have difficulty believing Bessler's design could be that simple!
DeleteI think it could be a runner! I don't sim but I made a graph paper type analysis of this and it looks like the COG of the five weights IS on the descending side of the axle! And that's for the arrangement of weights in anon 12:27's drawing which should have the lowest torque. After 36 degrees of rotation, the COG should move even farther away from the axle for higher torque. The next step for me is to make a quick and dirty model of this using cardboard, tacks, tape, and string with washers for weights. If that looks good, I'll try a larger version in wood.
DeleteThanks to JC for his "90 degree weight drop causes 30 degree weight rise clue" revelation or this design never would have been made!
@anon 19:03
DeleteYou can save your cardboard, tape, and string because this "Bessler workaround" hasn't got a snowflake's chance in hell of working! I was going to sim it and decided to check where the cog was before adding the pulleys and ropes. Attached are two screenshots of my wm2d workspace showing the wheel BEFORE the 90/30 shift and AFTER the shift. You worked with the after the shift version shown in the drawing that was linked to and it does have a SMALL cw torque. But, look at my before the shift version. The cog of the five weights is way onto the wheel's left supposedly ascending sided which means that there is a LARGE ccw torque. This design won't be turning cw long enough for the levers near the top to reach the point of shifting. It's similar to a past design that was posted in this blog that had the same kind of problem. In MT Bessler would have said it suffers from too much "resistance" which was his term for counter torque opposing the intended direction of motion of one of his wheels.
https://postimg.cc/8jb97hcF
Thank you Anon 22:30
DeleteThis shows how easy it is to get excited over a single drawing that shows a wheel is OB. Once we see it we tend to automatically assume that it will remain so as it turns. But, none of them, except Bessler's, of course, could actually do that. You have to watch what happens during a full rotation of a wheel to know if it's going to be pm or not. All of the machines in MT look OB, but not a single one of them would stay that way if built and allowed to rotate. It's a hard lesson to learn, but until one does he'll never get beyond step one of finding a truly OB pm wheel design.
DeleteAs Bessler said in AP:
"I also think it’s a good thing to be completely clear about one further point. Many would-be Mobile-makers think that if they can arrange for some of the weights to be a little more distant from the center than the others, then the thing will surely revolve. A few years ago I learned all about this the hard way. And then the truth of the old proverb came home to me that one had to learn things through bitter experience."
Trues that ! And if you are checking sum of turning moments on graph paper you have to divide a sector ( 72 degrees in this case ) into perhaps as many as 10 equal segments and calculate each one, then work out the average. You might even have to rotate it every 2 or less degrees to be certain whether the average turning moment is positive or negative.
DeleteGood news, anon 02:04 and 04:31...the ghost of Bessler agrees!
Deletehttps://i.postimg.cc/gc86NBW0/B-agrees.gif
This is great news anon 06:10. Now that Bessler's "ghost" is haunting this blog, we can ask him whether John actually found his secret pm wheel design after John finally reveals it. We truly live in amazing times...
DeleteGhosts, wigs, levers, pentagons, toys, and clues all over the place! This has to be one of the weirdest blogs on the internet. But, somehow out of all this confusion I'm convinced that the real solution to the Bessler wheel mystery will finally come. Might not be this year...but maybe in the next year or two. The next question is where do we go from there? A small working version would certainly make an interesting desktop toy for execs to play with or a nice conversation piece on one's living room coffee table. But, will the world have any real use for it? Will it try to get power from giant Bessler wheels instead of fossil fuels and so-called "green" renewables? I wish I had a crystal ball so I could look ahead to the year 2050 and see what the world looks like then...but first I'd use it to check out what next week's winning lottery numbers would be!
Delete" But, somehow out of all this confusion I'm convinced that the real solution to the Bessler wheel mystery will finally come. Might not be this year...but maybe in the next year or two. "
DeletePeople have been saying that here for the last decade or more and still...nothing. What makes this year or the next any different? Oh yes, John's going to finally "reveal all whether it works or not". He's also been saying that here for the last decade or more and still...nothing. I'm not optimistic about any of the latest predictions. They are just all part of the happy holiday talk that starts around this time of the year.
Ken, you can troll John's blog with your y lever images and comments but your design doesn't work.Grow up child.
ReplyDeleteI lost track of the LIES in this attack article on Bessler and his wheels!
ReplyDeletehttps://explorersweb.com/johann-bessler-and-the-greatest-physics-fraud-in-history/
I agree that this article is loaded with a lot of misinformation which, unfortunately, tends to support the opinions of the scientists and average readers about Bessler's wheels being hoaxed.
DeleteFor example, we're told "...first HIS WIFE and then his maid, Anne Rosine Mauersbergerin, tried to convince the world that his wheel was a fraud." Wasn't his first wife dead when the maid gave that testimony so she wasn't alive to contradict it? This misinformation makes you think the wife and maid BOTH claimed together that the Weissenstein Castle wheel was a hoax. That's not what happened.
Or "Bessler, disgraced and disregarded, turned from perpetual motion to another topical issue in 18th-century Germany: religion. In the early 1830s, he founded his own Church of Orffyreus. The authorities at Kassel promptly threw him in jail for heresy." Didn't he die in 1745?! Must have been a typo. Did the author even proofread the article before uploading it to the 'net?
Or "...not long out of jail for heresy, and his wife had left him." That would have been his second wife, the young daughter of the Weissenstein Castle blacksmith, IINM. I guess if she and her kids by him were starving, she might have temporarily moved back with her family until Bessler finally sold a wheel. Back in those days the idea of desertion or divorce was unthinkable for a Christian wife.
Donald Simanek, the great pm machine debunker, is quoted as saying "He must have had some way of re-energizing [the wheel] every time he changed the weights. But I don’t think we’ll ever know.” This implies that Bessler somehow cranked up springs inside of his Merseburg wheel while removing and reinstalling their weights when it was moved to other supports during an official test. But, what about the Weissenstein Castle test. No mentioned that its weights were not removed. Not sure if Bessler was allowed to inspect the wheel's internal mechanisms though. IINM, only the Merseburg wheel had to have its weights removed to lighten it up so it could be moved to another set of axle supports. Bessler didn't touch the weights in his other wheels unless he needed to make a repair.
I wouldn't call the misinformation in this article "lies". It's more the result of poor research by the author, imo. Still, it serves to diminish interest in Bessler and his wheels so it has the same effect as though it was lies.
Until we have a working physical pm wheel to demonstrate, we will never convince the critics that Bessler was for real with a genuine pm wheel. Ain't gonna happen. We can show them all the clues and sims we can get and they will just recite the first law of thermo and then tune us out. But, I'm wondering how they will react IF we can produce an undeniably genuine runner? Should be interesting to watch their reactions. Most will immediately declare it a hoax and anyone who analyzed it and confirmed it worked as being part of some sort of scam. But, eventually they will be forced to accept it is real. Its existence will change science and the world forever!
Delete