I have of course realised that it's May already and I've missed my ETA for the finished wheel by several months (years?) .... Things have a habit of diverting one's attention from one's intended purpose and I am perhaps more guilty than most. Nnotwithstanding, I am constantly working on adjusting the mechanisms to try to make them do what I want them to do and although I have said countless times that I understand the principle or the concept which makes Bessler's wheel work ... it is taking the very devil of a long time to get it right.
I sometimes liken it to understanding an auto engine - you understand the concept and what the various parts do, but it would be difficult to make one that works without constantly refining and adjusting each part. Anyway I'm on the verge of giving up. I have three options open to me; first I can continue to try with the help of Clarkie, but I'm not sure how long that may take; secondly, I can involve Hal Puthoff and see where that gets me - or doesn't - or finally I can publish everything in a book, on-line and through a video. I'm looking at the last option.
JC
I just hope you are not trying to draw attention or publicize a new book or something...
ReplyDeleteJust post the idea on BW as everyone does..
No, Fred, just apologising for the length of time I've taken to get to this point.
ReplyDeleteJC
"A film about Bessler and my life researching him" John, what is situation of this project ?
ReplyDeleteNo not a video about me and Bessler, just an additional explanation of the concept behind the wheel.
ReplyDeleteJC
300 hundred years have gone by, so any competition is most likely to be imagined. My advice to you is to remain cool!
ReplyDeleteHal Puthoff is your worst option because it won't get you anything. The knowledge will just be out of your control.
Publishing is the second worst option unless you're 100% correct. Anyone correcting you will be the one, not you!
John, with all the enormous respect I have for you, I would suggest publishing online. Just charge $10 for the information in a password pdf and maintain strict copyright.
ReplyDeleteThese are no ways to glorify a man who has already done his utmost...we should think of the hours,days, weeks ,years he spent at his workshop to shed light on the BW...he is responsible to have opened many an eye to this long forgotten subject of PM...I am sure his efforts are not finished here....In future too, JC sir is going to be our guiding star in this dark and extremely difficult path...His indepth knowledge in this subject is anyone's guess...I am also sure that no one is that capable of breaking Bessler's codes...we simply can't afford to ignore a personality that is like Bessler's. His simple ways to explain gravity and the Bessler principles, from time to time, is really unforgetable....who knows, he could still be the winner at the end...
ReplyDeleteJohn - I think I understand your dilemma. It's your baby, which you have been nurturing and maturing over the years, so it's very hard to let it go and put it out in the open. You want to see it succeed - and have Bessler (and yourself, perhaps) vindicated in the process. But as you correctly point out, you are merely a one-man army, and limited in time, facilities, perhaps financial means and, perhaps, even capabilities. All this in spite of the fact that you understand the underlying principle and primary mechanisms.
ReplyDeleteIn my view, you can do a number of things. First make sure that nobody can steal it from you. Make sure everything is documented and stored in *several* absolutely safe locations, digital and physical. This also enhances your personal safety. Since giving up is not an option you like, you can perhaps proceed differently: -
1. Work with professionals. I am willing to provide you with a full academic team of engineers, under full NDA and NCA protection. I will finance it from A to Z. They will professionaly build Besslers wheel according to your specifications. You can oversee this entire process. If succesful, go to step 3.
or
2. Show what you have to NASA, again under full NDA protection. I have ways to the right people there. If they say its feasible, step 1, followed by step 3 is the way forward.
3. Go viral and put it on the internet. Publish the book. From that moment on, there's no stopping it and everybody and his grandma will be replicating it. If successful, Besslers and your name will be famous - money will come automatically.
During or after step 1 or 2 you show it to Puthoff - as I understand it, he demands a demonstrable and working model. Once you have that, his academic credentials, together with working models from step 1, almost guarantee mainstream acceptance, fame, and income.
If you are serious about the last one then don't slack off. Some people's suggestion here are hilarious and down right greedy.
ReplyDeleteFirst think about what you are trying to share with the world. This type of technology is meant to rest in the hands of the people of the world and not so called "consumers".
The good thing about time is that the longer it goes on the more it brings forth. There are many out there with WORKING prototypes who either have chosen the monetary road or the public domain road. Gravity wheels would be instantly obsolete in the face of a cheap solid state electronic device for instance.
Either you accept the fact that this type of technology should and will bring a complete change in how we humans interact with nature and ourselves or you don't and will be overshadowed by something/someone else who will.
Now is your chance to prove yourself as a newly evolved human and not fall for the same trap that many have fell for before you and still are. Prove that it can be done different and you will succeed.
Nothing else but a working model will do. That's true!
ReplyDeleteEvery inventor needs to present a working model (prototype), at least to an investor.
The PM inventor just needs to present a working model in a step earlier, to the patent office.
Sometimes, the anons are right....we should listen to them too...they have been our relentless tormentors all along, even now..And as far as the PM is concerned, it has to begin with a working model to convince this ever skeptical world..there have been numernous PM inventors in the past, nothwithstanding an official ban on patent applications and the subject opposing existing physics laws...Under these circircumstances, how can we expect the authorities to accept this story...I suggest that we first build a working model before we do make any such radical claims...this topic should not take another great beating by loosing public trust...we really can't afford another silence of 300 years, can we ???
ReplyDeleteJC.
ReplyDeletefrom my own experience i believe it would be a grave mistake to let go your principle . most wont even understand or be able to comprehend the principle or build it . i cite the buzzsaw as an example . 5 years in and 1 person has come forth and said they finally understand it ! that'd be Jim_Mich . on something so simple as the buzzsaw that's a pretty poor showing of hands ! yep ,,, better keep it in your sneaker in my opinion . take it to the grave if you have to , might as well as to hand a lifetimes work to free loaders !
" Doc."
That's crap Anon,
ReplyDeletethe primary objective should be to make it accessible to as many people as possible and as freely as possible. And hopefully new principles in physics and mechanics can be discovered at the same time.
and what have you contributed to the furtherment of physics and mechanics so far in your lifetime DrWhat ? or are you just champing at the bit waiting for someone elses idea ? please list these accomplishments here . JC. has given it his all . considerable time and very expensive . he's tired . and everyone wants FREE !
ReplyDeleteps, i didn't see your hand wavin in the air that you understood the buzzsaw . now if you cant comprehend anything as simple as that how do you expect to comprehend JC's ? should he just build the thing and present it to you as a gift ? that will really help his bottom line !
"Doc."
I have accomplished nothing, none of us have. I won't lie or brag like others that I have something great I won't share. I don't. And don't let others give me stories about "Oh, I've learnt a lot about physics, metalwork..." etc. The goal here is PM. And I can only hope JC has something meaningful to at least vindicate out efforts. All credit would go to him of course, but we have surely supported him and perhaps kept him motivated in this quest. I don't want anything, just to see the solution in whatever form it takes.
ReplyDeleteAnd if the buzzsaw is that simple where is your contribution? Your final design of it? Your working model?
Sorry, not my intention to get personal, just frustration setting in! And impatience.
Let us find out why we are not able to come up with a working model of the Bessler's Wheel...
ReplyDeleteBessler had to work very hard and very long (30 years) to realise the actual design (mechanism). It was his lifetime's achievment. He started from the scratch. He went thru all possible designs that one could go through in this line of activity. He was genuinely involved. He was very passionate about it. He had a mission to be fulfilled (school for engineers). His initial intentions were very pure. Greed must have overtaken him later and thereby failure to realise its value. He had an original bent of mind. He had technical knowledge (clockmaker, Blacksmith). The physics laws were at their infancy. PM fever was on at that time. World's technical progress was also at its undevoloped stage (not so sophisticated) The wheel's technology matched with the existing technology of that time. Real geniuses existed during that time and bessler was one of them. Things are different now. People these days have no time for original ideas. Unconventionality is not in existence now. Things are commercialised now and there are too many distractions now than at Bessler's era. Bessler got many ideas by observing his contemporaries whereas at present we don't listen to anyone's advise even, leave alone the suggestions. Bessler was very spritual and probably believed in destiny, rebirth, occult, etc..(otherwise why would he think of a free school for engineers) We think of making a couple of millions so that we could have an easy life. Bessler had a real vision in life. He had different plans for the world. He needed cash for this purpose only and not to go for an holiday. And, finally, he was quite fortunate to have hit upon the only design which none of us have yet...
Anon/Doc
ReplyDeleteYou tell us that he put a lot of time, money and energy into it..
I don't think that John at his age is going to benefit that much of money.. He might help his family that's true.. But he will help the entire planet by releasing this wheel.. The sooner, the better..
Don't you all realize that we are kind of DooMed right now?! .. Oil Gushers, Volcanos, a bunch of earthquakes >6.0 very very often, sun at his lowest point, economy in the worst possible condition, etc..
It sounds to me that some people are actively trying to reverse the situation desperatly.
It's all fun and games until everything explode in your hand..
I tell you, this invention has no owner, it's for the entire human race to benefit from it.. Screw your greedy idealism, if this invention doesn't surface very soon, we are fucked in the A.
Talking of money... Bessler's greed spoilt the show at the end..it even brought him a gory end..money isn't everything..Bessler too didn't live to enjoy it. Money will come automatically if it is destined and we need not run after it madly. Bessler was after it but failed. If we aim for the larger good it will greatly aid us in this invention..
ReplyDeleteFrankly speaking, BW design is too simple and not difficult to build at all. The very fact someone is having difficulty to make a working model makes it very clear that the actual design or mechanism is not known to him.
Just knowing the BW principle will not suffice. BW story has already taken a great beating in the past. We must be very careful in how we reveal it to the world. The cloud of secrecy that bessler created should not be repeated....
"I am constantly working on adjusting the mechanisms to try to make them do what I want them to do and although I have said countless times that I understand the principle or the concept which makes Bessler's wheel work ... it is taking the very devil of a long time to get it right."
ReplyDeleteThis sounds to me like what I do, to try and desperately salvage every failed attempt- because I'd put a lot of time, resources, heart and soul into it. John, it's time to admit that you were mistaken in your confidence and to stop flogging this dead horse!
- or will tou just continue to tweak forever?
We know it is possible to convert gravity force into kinetic energy, we know that bessler did it, but three hundred years have gone by and still it remains a mystery...what the heck could be the reasons for the great delay in reproducing the Bessler Wheel...
ReplyDeleteWell, the main reason is Bessler himself..he sort of shrouded the entire thing with a mystery of sorts..he ultimately did not want anyone to discover it so easily..his clues are ofcourse genuine but still they are not all decoded entirely...The clues are of both the directions wheels which is very confusing...normally a beginner starts with the unidirectional wheel applying clues meant for the wheel which turns both ways and thereby arrives at confusion...Another possible confusion is that a beginner thinks of the wheel as a whole as being very complicated instead of realising that the outer wheel is merely a cover for the clever design inside. A layperson fails to understand that the actual trick lies in the lever mechanism, which is really the heart of wheel. It is the lever that is designed very cleverly by bessler. And, there have to be eight in all spaced evenly. This is the simplicity of the wheel...Our JC Sir has been trying with only five levers, if I am not wrong, and we can understand the main fault..
Whatever is revealed will be just as pathetic as the pentagram that doesn't exactly fit in a circle in the Bessler drawings.
ReplyDeleteMillions and Millions of dollars are being spent for research on finding alternate energy for greener environment each year...Matter is getting very critical. We can do a great service to mankind by just contributing our skills in reinventing the fabled bessler wheel.
ReplyDeleteIt may appear very difficult at first but actually it may not be so...I have a feeling that we are closer now than anytime before despite JC sir's not so successful efforts...
The need of the hour is pooling of knowledge. Tits and bits of bessler clues are known to one and all in this forum..We just need to shed the greed and work for one cause...Bessler wheel cannot remain buried forever...it is bound to come out sooner than we might guess..JC sir has done his bit by researching thoroughly on Bessler and presenting us with unlimited info eventhough he has miserably failed to show us a promising design...his over confidence seems to be the culprit which is quite understandable. JC sir's efforts should not go in vain...we need to get into the act fast...We just have to design one lever mechanism with the weight attached to it, that's all. once this is achieved rest is quite easy as we just have to replicate seven such levers...note my word, it is as simple as that...
Suresh,you are surely correct, but the question is always HOW!
ReplyDeleteTwo things in all..
ReplyDeleteFirst we need to find out where JC sir has erred and work out the solution which I am confident is not going to be difficult at all.
Secondly, we need to address the big question as to who is going to get the ultimate credit, whether the blogteam or an individual (or Bessler) and also, how the new invention is going to be intoduced to the world. We really don't want another bessler drama unfold after the wheel is built. Here, Mr.Andre's cababilities can come into play.
JC sir, has done quite well in researching on Bessler mystery and his conviction that gravity is promising is also laudable but his wheel design has taken quite a beating. This is where I think he has misled both himself and all of us. But his failure can help us by ensuring that we don't repeat the mistake and keep us on the right track.
Once the wheel is designed by us one is simply going to tap his forehead saying why he didn't think of it before. simplicity is going dazzle everyone in this world, it is my word.
If gravity can pull at anything it can also easily assist in the rotation of a wheel, provided we build a wheel, a deftly desined one....
Suresh your annoying. You've only said one thing of interest to me, tits and bits.
ReplyDeleteWe can only find out where JC has erred (assuming he has erred) if we (all) can examine the design. What we need here is knowledge transfer and collaboration. I wouldn't mind working with all of you guys - we can form a Bessler group or something similar under supervision and guidance of JC. The internet is a excellent resource for this. And again, I have a complete team of academic engineers of a major Asian university standing by. I'll be more than happy to finance it. We should also (all of us) provide JC with NDA's and NCA's. He and only he deserves the credit, fame, and profit. I just want to see this succeed. I want to see these diabolical energy cartels broken. And if there's something more in it for us all, that's nice, but that's not my personal goal.
ReplyDeleteThat's the problem, Anon 06:54. Suresh is intelligent, you clearly are not, with your tits and bits. Go play outside.
ReplyDeleteAgreed Andre sir...a core group of trustworthy blogteam members can address the problem solving part of Bessler Wheel. I will wait for further instructions from you. Really, you must be the reincarnated Carl. I assure you that you won't be disappointed here. Pls note that this is my personal and sincere assurance to you. I admire your interest to solve the puzzle. You are a large hearted personality. I only hope that you succeed in working out all the reqd modalities.
ReplyDeleteBessler Wheel story is a real enigma. The very simplicity of the design makes its potential inventor very paranoid. Even if someone happens to be aware of any vital clue he would definitely become very apprehensive. He would become distrustful of others. He wouldn't like to share it with others. You must understand what I mean here. I am sure many blogteam members (including me) are aware of something or the other about the wheel which is, infact, not known to JC sir. I am very sure about this. This vital info is what is going to solve the great puzzle. We can easily work out the actual wheel motion or the universal momentum known by bessler. It is not difficult at all when one applies a very open mind.
Despite the wheel secret being so simple, what actually puzzles me is that why is no one able to recreate the BW. I am not entirely convinced with JC sir's answers. 300 years period is a lot of time. Like bessler believed, is it linked with any Divine plan? We are attempting to directly draw energy from the intricate design of god's creation, aren't we?
Supervision and guidance? You're a sad little man andre.
ReplyDeleteJohn,
ReplyDeleteif Clarkie has seen the design, can we get some general comments from him about any potential for success that he sees?
Hi Suresh, everything depends, of course, on John. After all it's his baby and he and only he determines what happens next with the fruits of his labor and research. I have great confidence in him. But I'm always willing to help and finance it to see this through, even though I am -according to the pearls of wisdom from our anonymous armchair expert- merely a sad little man.
ReplyDeleteMuch like DrWhat said - it would be great if we could get some input from Clarkie as well. Can you give us an update, John?
I've studied this for 3 years and have concluded that Bessler was a fraud. He learned the placebo effect while studying medicine as well as the importance of always appearing very religious. People don't suspect the religious of lying. He had a clever mechanism so deceptive that even observing the interior would keep people convinced for a very long time. Just imagine a battery powered toy in those days? It could take weeks before they realized they were robbed. Long enough for him to get his money and run.
ReplyDeleteFor every experiment he had a different type of wheel. One that could spin for hours but delivered little power, one that delivered power but couldn't go more than an hour or two, and one that could hibernate for long periods and restart. Clockmaker "magic". Each test was strictly controlled by him so the illusion could be protected.
Finally, the secret may have been in the support beams. There is a reason that no Bessler wheel was ever drawn whose supports did not extend both above and below the wheel & I believe the beams in several pictures may have been an after thought altogether even by the sketch artist lacking correct dimensions or details. While it would have been much simpler to just arrange a block support to the necessary height he always ran his supports to the ceiling. While everyone was looking at the "open" bearings the wheel was being driven by something else, load stones, a belt of some kind that appeared to be unrelated. Clever man yes, just like all of the other long lived frauds in the history of PM. His "battery" was most likely just heavy weights made to fall slowly in the supports themselves. That would give the whole "switching supports" experiment a whole new spin, both literally and figuratively.
It's non-collaborative people like JC who exploit promises for years that give power to these frauds. While I don't believe JC to be purposely deceitful, I do believe his desire for a paycheck will ensure that hundreds continue to "believe" in a lie. Science is about revealing truth but when money becomes a factor lies fly. I read an article last week from a guy that claims to have a working magnet wheel and a working gravity wheel but whined about how if he showed anyone he wouldn't ever get his investment back! Humbug! What a liar. I had a guy come to the door the other day with a note that claimed that he had no tongue and that we should give him money. There's no difference.
I love this quote from above: "Publishing is the second worst option unless you're 100% correct. Anyone correcting you will be the one, not you!"
Yes, God forbid anyone ever get this right with help from someone else! Better to die 95% there than to live and have someone steal the last 5%. Way to go human disgusting nature! For you who have so much faith in the evil Bessler just think what the world could be like today if he was telling the truth as you believe and he had not been a greedy jerk. 300 years and counting of the curse of Bessler's greed.
You guys are great at rationalizing your greed. I'm just glad people like Jesus, or the guy who invented the wheel didn't insist on being paid before they shared their discovery.
JC, if you relieve believe in your thing then start a thread on BW.com and promise full disclosure in 1 week. Then wait a week and disclose. So many people will be watching that your contribution will be sealed, since that is so important to you. However, like those of use who have thrown our ideas many times against the wall and had them bounce off you'll probably discover you've deceived yourself and by your secrecy wasted countless hours of others who were unfortunate enough to trust you.
Cheers.
Wind.
btw, if you believe Bessler smashed his wheel for no reason you are wrong. Really, such a smart guy would demolish his "working" wheel because he believe someone to have stole his secret? If that were true the "smart" course would have been to preempt his release of the secret.
ReplyDeleteNo, Bessler smashed his wheel because he thought s-Gravesande had discovered his fraud. Not being there to control the circumstances was very dangerous to Bessler. So long as the evidence was demolished he could declare him mistaken and counter accuse him for having tried to steal his secret. Even the maid's testimony was true of the earliest of Bessler's wheels, but she was made to elaborate and exaggerate to the point that it was dismissed. She thought lying okay because she knew he was a fraud. This happens often in cases where the witness is certain of the guilt, they will often exaggerate to "help" the cause of justice. They end up hurting it. Just like every PM enthusiast that exaggerates the results of their own experiments, some going so far as to claim success. Then exaggeration is supported by lie, and lie is supported by fraud.
Lay this thing to rest and get on with your lives. Bessler put the placebo effect into good use just as doctors do both then and now. Making people see and believe is the next best thing to it actually being true. It just isn't true.
Wind;
ReplyDeleteYou are stuffed with more bull shit than a christmas turkey!
oh anonymous, I'm so sorry for you that no one told your mother the correct stuff to put in a Christmas turkey.
ReplyDeleteWind: how do you know what you claim to be facts you show no proof than the real proof that is 300 years old and just expect people to believe you? why dont you get on with your life and drop this ?
ReplyDeleteHi John, I just stumbled upon your sites tonight in my never ending quest to find cutting edge energy technology, I think that you should go with your own gut and do whatever makes you happy and sod all of those so quick to criticise.
ReplyDelete"WHETHER YOU THINK THAT YOU CAN OR YOU CAN'T, EITHER WAY YOU ARE RIGHT" - HENRY FORD