Following my blog entitled "Decoding Chapter 55 of Bessler's Apologia Poetica",in which I mentioned the large number of clues from Bessler which signified the number 55, it was mentioned that an interview I gave to "Infinite Energy" magazine way back 1998 was printed on page 55! At that time I knew nothing of the apparent importance to Bessler of that number. This was an interesting coincidence and added to the fact that the other person involved happened to look at that page on the same day that I posted my blog almost convinced me of some implied causality! I was discussing the matter with my wife and she pointed out that my birthday is on February 5th - another 5 and a 2. I then observed that 5 x 2 = 10 and added to my year of birth, 1945, added up to 55. It shows how easy it is to be lulled into seeing meaning in something which is perhaps mildly serendipitous - a nice coincidence, but nothing more.
The brain tends to identify patterns and sometimes it gets fooled. I remember after 911, the spate of seemingly meaningful number coincidences that related to that event that appeared on the internet. This feature of the way the brain works is useful but can lead one up a blind alley. Clouds sometimes form shapes which some people see as recognisable faces but there is probably more meaning in the patterns seen in the rorschach inkblot test. Nevertheless one cannot always ignore them and Orffyreana are a ripe area for the appearance of such curious coincidences - or are they spurious inferences?
One well-known coincidence is the fact that Bessler included 141 bible references in "Apologia Poetica", in the section headed "Orffyrean Declaration of Faith". Apart from the fact that there are so many, on their own there is nothing to wonder at, however in his "Maschinen Tractate" (MT) he destroyed or hid some of its drawings at the time of his arrest and replaced others to make 141. The last one which I call "The Toys" drawing has five numbers appended to the bottom of it to bring the total to the desired 141. Why did he want to have 141? Are we to draw a connection between the two books? I don't know. Coincidence or design? And Why does MT47 have a ghostly mirror image of the number 47 attached to it, and does it matter that 47 goes into 141 just three times. Coincidence? Probably, but should we ignore it?
I have a reputation for seeing meaning in everything Bessler wrote or drew, and I know that some think my imagination is leading me astray, but in fact I do study each 'clue' with a highly critical eye. Sometimes if I am unsure about its validity, I publish details about it and hope to draw comment which might enable me to confirm it as a real clue or discard it completely. With regard to Chapter 55, I have found much of the route to deciphering the coded parts but there is some ambiguity about where to go next and that is why I intend to publish what I know.
JC
Dear John,
ReplyDeleteI really think that too try to work out the wheel principle using codes is going to be a fruitless task.
There's no getting away from the fact that the wheel is purely a mechanical device that derives it's power from gravity so we need to see how these codes are relevant to mechanics.
Okay,when a working prototype has been achieved then we can look back in hindsight and see how these codes apply,but not before.
Soon I am going to show you,just using Bessler's words,the poem and the eye-witness accounts of the characteristic noises,a working wheel that will confirm Bessler's integrity and ultimately his vindication.
I trust you will also be a benifactor.
Whoops!,what a mistaka to maka.That last word should be, beneficiary.
ReplyDeleteHi Trevor, please do not concern yourself with fears that I am devoting too much time and energy to deciphering Bessler's codes. In fact I am more interested in completing my version of a model of Bessler's wheel.
ReplyDeleteBut having spent many happy hours in consideration of the examples of coded information present in Bessler's work and having made some inroads into their meaning I felt that it was time to share what little I know. Most of what I shall publish was worked out a long time ago and since that time I have made little or no progress. So rather than just sit on it, it makes sense to me to let someone else have a go at it and hopefully give them start in the right direction by steering them along the course I have followed to date.
Of course I look forward to your own revelations and must warn you that I too hope to amaze and astound you with my own! :-)
JC
Is that a challenge?... because I would love the competition!
ReplyDeleteTrevor...that is the most basic requirement for a bessler enthusiast..I simply agree with you..it should be accepted that the bessler wheel is too simple and just the simple clues through the poem and the eye witness’s' account would suffice to derive complete understanding and eventually come out with a prototype...
ReplyDeleteThe very reason for the great 300 years delay is due to this non understanding of the above stated fact...only a successful prototype would convince anyone...
just imagine..most never trusted bessler even though he had a working prototype..
Thats right!...but it won't be long now.It's taking a little time because the wheel requires a special mechanical action for each set of weights.This is what is known as a mechanical bi-stable flipflop.
ReplyDeleteAnyway not to worry,I have reached a point were I can say it's in the bag.I will put the wheel on U-tube when I'm ready.
Mechanical bi-stable flipflop...yes Trevor...this is what is required to successfully make the wheel turn..its the special lever-weight combination or, in simple words, the designing of it you can say...everything is that simple about the wheel...
ReplyDeletePerpetual motion power was not accomplished using a clever trick or cheating gravity.There is no free handout.
ReplyDeleteIn order to get something you have to give something.Gravity is a provision given for us to use in the form of a force using a principle in physics that has been overlooked.
It is still being overlooked by most, Trevor...
ReplyDeleteI quite agree with you..
Another reason is that it has been misunderstood badly...or should we call it as we being misguided...later many got confused working it out and went on the wrong track..
Even now, no one is going to achieve it unless he hits upon that single most bessler design..
Dear Sir John, I hope my input is seen as a contributary help to your blog.It was never my intention to upstage you in any way.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if you are aware that your little excursion to Warwick Castle to see the medieval Trebuchet was the closest you've come to discovering the secret principle in Besslers wheel.It's amazing what a break can do,you came so close you nearly tripped over it.
Trevor, You're talking like a fool.
ReplyDeleteAxel
I'm grateful for all inputs, Trevor. Upstage me? No chance!
ReplyDeleteJC
Trevor, If you fail to build working wheel that is becourse you spend to much time with Suresh :D
ReplyDeleteBessler = Oryffere
Trevor = Suresh
I have just given away a pearl so valuable it can lead to you solving the wheel if you cannot discern it then I don't know!
ReplyDeleteI will just have to show you a working model.
Trebuchet...yes...It holds a great resemblence..and a great clue, too..
ReplyDeleteAnyone thinking like Trevor will have already made it...
Trevor seems to have hit upon the secret but there still seems something wrong...The wheel should have been out by now..
Suresh responds to my remarks only because he is one of the few people who understands the logic of my arguments.Some people discern when truth is spoken.Others are fooled by eloquent words.
ReplyDeleteDon't be too concerned about the delay,it takes a little time. Just to put your mind at rest I have just spent the whole day changing my wheel to a new configuratio that I am most pleased with.All that is now needed is the 180degree latching mechanism and I'm away.Hang in there!
ReplyDeleteTrevor,
ReplyDeleteOne question,
does your wheel shift weights, to create an imbalance for rotation ?
Spinner.
Yes,but thats the easy part.The weights will naturally flop over using gravity,from 9 o'clock across to 3 o'clock to create an imbalance to turn the wheel from 3 to 6 o'clock. This is what made the bump sound on the side of Bessler's wheel going down.The challenge is to get the weights to cross over before 3 o'clock which gets progressively harder the closer you get to 12 o'clock.
ReplyDeleteThis part requires work input from a force taken from gravity.There you will have to thank Sir John for showing us the Trebuchet.If you can anylise that you can work it out.
Spinner...let me answer this...
ReplyDeleteThe entire concept is based on shifting of weights to create an imbalance for rotation...
First, the weights swing and land at 3 0 clock then they come down at 6 o clock due to gravity effect...one after one and climb up in a very special way and continue the next swing at 3 o clock....
There you are guys! I have all but given the game away. Remember don't be confused with the swing of the weights and the swing of the pendulums.
ReplyDeleteTrevor....you say that the weights will flop over from 9 o clock....
ReplyDeleteBut there is a way where the weights will start to flop from 6 o clock...using gravity of course....
Interesting???
From 6 0'clock to 12 o'clock yes. Providing you know the principle. Bessler stated that if you can work out how to lift 1 pound with 4 0unces then the the motion will sustain itself.
ReplyDeleteThanks suresh,
ReplyDeletei was trying to find out if Trevor's principle was similar to what i am working on.
Trevor's flip flop mechanism post, got my attention, as i am using a similar mechanism.
had to laugh when Trevor named the device a mechanical bi stable flip flop, as its the same name i had called it.
though in my build, it is not used to shift weight, the wheel is also uni-directional.
now, if only i could quit my job to work on this.
suresh, have not figured out trevor's swinging concept, had a similar old concept, except the weight swung to the 4 o clock position, and simply was latched back up, at the 6 oclock position by latching on the bottom, of the arm of the hanging 12 o clock arm.
It simply was swapped in the center of the wheel,
as one arm was hanging, the other was standing.
It definately had overbalance, though the latching was complicated.
The weight instantly was lifted (swapped) without even passing the 6 oclock point.
cheers
Spinner.
The weights are always swinging. Its only their fulcrums that shift.The swinging is sustained by the wheel motion....left right,left right, which requires very little energy.
ReplyDeleteTrevor,
ReplyDeleteApart from the swinging weights, which when compared to what i am working on, would be the pendulums, or weighted levers, are you using the flip-flop that these activate to suddenly shift other weights using other devices, for the overbalance ?
basically does your wheel rotate due to extra weight on one side, caused by the swinging pendulums ?
as now i am confused after Suresh's reply, when compared to your reply.
Spinner
Trevor
ReplyDeleteforgot to add,
Just a simple yes or no reply would be fine.
dont give away too many clues.
Spinner
No, the swinging weights are the pendulums.They swing but they also change position at the fulcrum to over balance the wheel. First their fulcrums move from inner to outer at 3 0'clock on the right and its twin of the pair moves at the same time at 9 o'clock from outer to inner.Now this is the easy part because it just gravitates from left to right.
ReplyDeleteWhat you have to work out is how get it to change over before 9 and 3 o'clock.Thats where the swinging weights come in. Selah.(meditate on this).
thanks Trevor,
ReplyDeleteunderstand the pendulum device, including the design as a pair, came across it when trying a previous build that used CF, the only let down was that i was tyring to slide weight to create an imbalance, this affected the timing of the pendulums.
had learn't a great deal as the important part of that design was to try to get pendulums to move, when the wheel was turning, this is important, as the design was originally intended to avoid, being affected by CF.
This has been overcome by a different mechanism that does not lift or shift weight to create rotation,
there is a flip flop action which helps control the movement.
basically its shown in besslers drawings.
your system does differ, as i don't use secondary swinging weights.
So basically you are using the actual pendulums shift in position of their fulcrum to cause the imbalance for rotation, and the secondary device which may be the incorporated in the flip flop mechanism to reset it.
(does this create much power ?)
The pendulums in my design seem similar, as they move left right as well, the movement is limited, and does not swing freely as a normal pendulum does.
The pendulums are not affected by CF either
The flip flop device as in my design, could be used in many ways to drive the wheel, my believe is that the linkages-devices, of the toys page are not combined in the wheel, they are individual ways for applying rotation to the wheel, in todays world there are many more ways.
Does anyone think that bessler studied the movement of starfish ?
If only i had more spare time to get this wheel cranked up.
Spinner
One thing I have realized is that for the wheel to have power it has to be real big.Bessler's wheel gave the impression of power by virtue of the fact that it had a lot of enertia.This is why to stop it suddenly it would lift a man of the ground.I am fortunate to be retired so I have all day to work on the wheel,even so it's amazing how time flies.
ReplyDeleteRead my description and try to picture how the mechanism works.
You are right Trevor...the wheel has to be big..The weights inside also need to be heavy....the construction has to be very sturdy, too..it has to withstand a lot of banging and other strain at every rotation...
ReplyDeleteIf anyone can go thru all the previous writings in this blog he can easily discern the bessler wheel mechanism....
The reason why the wheel has to be big is self evident.For every 2kg.of weight,one going up and one going down,you only get one half kg.driving force,if the distance ratio is a factor of 2.
ReplyDeleteThat's true...near about 90 percent of the energy cannot be tapped or it goes in self consumption for its sustenance..
ReplyDeleteThe main advantage is it is pure, free and inexhaustible...But when are we actually going to have it...the wheel outcome still remains in mystery..who will succeed and when...we have to take into account a lot..many didn't succeed so far...many may still be secretly working at it and may surprise us suddenly...can't rule out anything..but as far this blog is concerned you are very close at it than anyone..this i am very sure...
Actually it's closer to 25% Yes?, but it's time to put my thoughts into actions and produce a working wheel.I am a bit perplexed but not discouraged. Remember I said I had spent the whole day doing a rebuild well,...this morning I woke up with a whole new concept which will be a dramatic improvement on the old.It's so neat and every thing works acording to Bessler's description. I really think this is it,but haven't we all heard that before.In a day or so I will know.
ReplyDeleteFor the weights is it possible to know which metal was used by Bessler...Bessler hid the weight with handkerchief during a demo...what does all this suggest...
ReplyDeleteI think it was possibly a metal tube with lead weights inserted at each end. There was hole in the centre on which it pivoted.The ends might have been design to hit something acting like a hammer.
ReplyDeleteThis is all extremely interesting, guys! I was away for some time for work, and reading up on this is a real treat. I think Trevor is definitely working on something very viable. Congratulations!
ReplyDeleteI wonder how John is getting on with his wheel.He must be so busy he hasn't got time to speak to us.Thanks for showing us the Trebuchet.If you can analyze the physics of the Trebuchet with the long pole you have the secret principle of the wheel.
ReplyDeleteOnce again it is nice to see encouraging words from Andre Sir..thanks...Bessler made sure that no one should be able to replicate the wheel... so easily...at the same he has left some solid clues..to ensure his name persists..one can realize how clever bessler was...
ReplyDeleteEven though, Trevor has understood bessler clues so well he is still miles away...it is going to be tough ahead...I think there is much more in the weights otherwise why did bessler take so much care to conceal it with a handkerchief...
If this can be worked out friends then we have the wheel...
Sorry I haven't written much recently, I'm having some work done on the house which involves a lot of hammering and drilling - and the noise is happening right next to the computer room, which makes it impossible to think in there, so we tend to go out during the day just to get away from it. The workshop is currently full of furniture, frdge/freezer and other odds and ends which is usually in the rooms which are being knocked about, so not much happening in there either. At the moment I'm concentrating on finishing writing a web site which details what I have discovered about decoding chapter 55. It should all return to normal within a couple of weeks (fingers crossed) and I shall report on the wheel reconstruction then.
ReplyDeleteJC
Suresh,...Let my determined heart be the measure of my imminent success.When I have given up and thrown in the towel the I am miles away.My input speakes volumes.
ReplyDeleteHandkerchief matter really is something which we shouldn't ignore, Trevor...it could give us a very valuable clue...and I think that is the reason why this puzzle isn't getting solved...
ReplyDeleteThe wheel mechanism has been solved. Believe me when I tell you I can describe in detail how it works and why it works but I cannot say anything until I have finished a working prototype.
ReplyDeleteOMG HAHAAHAHAHAHAHAH
ReplyDeleteWhat do you have to offer?
ReplyDeleteCome on,... ask me anything about the poem and I'll tell you what it means.
ReplyDeleteGood luck Trevor, but if you fail to get it to work please let us have a look at it so we can all work on it.
ReplyDeleteI am optimistic!
Thank you Sir...We have to stay positive.
ReplyDeleteTrevor...Your descriptions of the weights used by bessler is not correct. You have changed your design at the last minute after you woke up with a new concept. This means that your earlier design was not correct.
ReplyDeleteAll these things tells us that we haven't figured out the right design yet. Designs always keep changing..Bessler design is unique and once we hit upon it no further changes are required..
I am not saying that it is impossible...but it is very difficult to achieve. once achieved it looks very simple...really very simple as karl had stated...
I anticipated that you would say that.The fact is,both designs will work,only the one is a little bit more tricky to organise the mechanics.
ReplyDeleteYou have two options,...You can choose to have only eight main weights.In which case you have to move their fulcrums for the over balance effect.
Or you can have eight main weights and have eight smaller pendulums,which actually works out much simpler with the mechanics.
Remember,Bessler said the wheel had many parts so don't be put off if you think it's complicated.Read my lips when I say the wheel has been solved.Thats why i'm not afraid to put my head on a block.
Anyway, Trevor...I agree as always I do that you are nearer to the truth than anyone else...
ReplyDeleteBy the way, you have mentioned that that there are two options...then which one is the actual Bessler design? ..Is it the simpler one?...
I think that there is one very simple bessler design that employs 8 weights very beautifully arranged....and even when they are in action it is beautiful to look at...As grand as a peacock's tail, as he described it...
There are several designs. One can even use pendulums and springs only. What made the differance was Bessler's discovery about pendulums that spared him all the previous heartache.Once he had that he was able to utilise it in various different forms to achieve the same result.
ReplyDeleteTrevor....Don't you think that if there were so many designs then someone would have come up by now...
ReplyDeleteSomehow, we should have this wheel by this year end..I hope you are the one to give us the good news first...
No,because they do not have the key.Bessler made no secret as to how the wheel turned using an off centered elliptical orbit of heavy weights,but he never let on as to how the swing of the pendulums gave it power.Bessler said you can wrack your brains with any number of designs but you will get no where if you don't know the vital secret.
ReplyDeleteIt is the source of it's power and it comes from gravity,that why it's free.
Here's an analogy,...You can have a fleet of cars,many different designs,but if you don't have fuel you've got to push them by hand.
ReplyDeleteTrevor......but the engine design is same in every car...internal combustion..we all know that the force is derived from gravity as far as bessler wheel is concerned...what we should understand is there is only one design that is very effective in this case and that is the bessler design...
ReplyDeleteGravity was not popular when bessler lived so people didn't realise that his wheel relied on gravity...
Now coming back to the handkerchief matter...Trevor you need to tell what bessler was trying to hide...then only it would be convincing that you have achieved it...
One can only guess what he was hiding,it could be any number of things.Obviously it was something that would give a vital clue as to how the wheel worked.
ReplyDeleteThe next best thing to convince you is to give you guys a working prototype,thats the best I can do.
I am working on the wheel now so give me a day or so.
"John Collins said...
ReplyDeleteSorry I haven't written much recently, I'm having some work done on the house which involves a lot of hammering and drilling - and the noise is happening right next to the computer room, which makes it impossible to think in there, so we tend to go out during the day just to get away from it. The workshop is currently full of furniture, frdge/freezer and other odds and ends which is usually in the rooms which are being knocked about, so not much happening in there either. At the moment I'm concentrating on finishing writing a web site which details what I have discovered about decoding chapter 55. It should all return to normal within a couple of weeks (fingers crossed) and I shall report on the wheel reconstruction then. JC"
Buy an iPad.
Another subterfuge for not working at your imaginary wheel ...
Thagre oehlarry
You appear to suffer from a rather holy rage?
ReplyDeleteJC
J O H N
ReplyDelete10 15 8 14
C O L L I N S
3 15 12 12 9 14 15
10+15+8+14 = 47
3+15+12+12+9+14+15 = 84
47+84 = 131
1+3+1 = 5
See how stupid it gets.
Thagre Oehlarry
Trevor...You are right, Bessler was trying to hide a very vital clue that would have revealed 50 percent of his wheel's secret...what I can't understand is how you couldn't figure that out so far...you have understood most of the clues better than anyone else...
ReplyDeleteAnd without incoroporating this clue it would be very difficult or even impossible to come to achieve success, dear..
I don't need to know what was on the end of his weights because I have enough info to complete a working wheel.
ReplyDeleteI don't want to suggest what it was because that will start a whole new topic that could lead every one astray.
Anyway, good luck to you...Trevor.
ReplyDeleteBessler wheel mystery is getting more intriguing...All these only suggests that we haven't yet fully explored bessler's clues...everyone has his own way of building the wheel...but who exactly is going to be the real person that is actually going to build the original bessler wheel...which is what is our common goal here in this blog...
I thought my anagram was rather good. I also liked your alphanumerics!
ReplyDeleteJC
Suresh ,...It's just occurred to me,about those weights.I think the ends were fitted with springy pads for rebound.
ReplyDeleteI realised this while working on my wheel because I am going to need the same sort of thing.
No Trevor...it is something else altogether...if you are following this path then i am really sorry for ...you ain't getting nowhere..
ReplyDeleteBessler was trying to hide something else other than what you have stated...if anyone had seen it then they would have figured out what it was and then the mystery behind the wheel would have been out already....
Okay,...but we have to account for the hammers and the banging when the wheel turned.
ReplyDeleteNo hammers and it was only hitting sound...
ReplyDeleteIt is definite that bessler used weights attached to levers. When weights land at 3 0 clock they would naturally hit the wheel side and make noise...this is thus accounted..we shouldn't get misled here...by any other theory...
The hammer action and the banging have no use in the wheel motion...it is just a by product...