I noted a comment on the besslerwheel forum by jim_mich, while I was away in Spain, that I had at one time espoused a belief that the movement of the weights in Bessler's wheel followed the path shown in the avatar, I use on the forum, the Yin Yang symbol. I used to think the weights moved on a path similar to the double curve which runs across the middle of the circle. It's true that I did cherish this idea for a time and indeed I discussed it in my book 'Perpetual Motion; An Ancient Mystery Solved'. But I came to the same conclusion that Jim did, that there was no way to incorporate such a design within any of the wheels I was working on, and I no longer subscribe to this idea and have not done so for some time because conflicting evidence appeared to suggest another design altogether.
People must be aware of other 'coded' information I have discussed and in particular the alphabetic substition of Bessler's name and his adoption of two extra forenames. (see www.theorffyreuscode.com) He was born Elias Bessler and added the Johann Ernst at some point before he became famous, so that E. Bessler became JEE Bessler. Given the alphabetic substitution to turn Bessler into Orffyre and thence to Orffyreus, I pointed out that JEE became WRR.
Now I could understand the doubling of the letter 'E', given his (and mine!) obsession with the number five and 'E' being the fifth letter to give two fives - and I could also appreciate the inclusion of the 'W' in the subsequent alphabetic substitution, which also provided two fives in the form of double 'V' - but before the alphabetic substitutions of 'W' he had an apparently meaningless 'J' and after the alphabetic substitution he had an equally meaningless 'R'. To what purpose could these two letters of doubtful value be attributed?
I assumed that he simply fancied the name Johann and with alphabetic substitution, the inital letter gave him the useful 'W', and the equally valuable 'E' gave him the 'R' and that, it seems to me must have been of equal importance since he incorporated it in every logo he signed all his letters with . I reproduce two examples of the logo below so that you can see it. I am convinced that the letter 'R' mimics the paths of the weights but it has to be interpreted correctly, which I believe I have done. So there is your clue for today.
JC
Then again, maybe he just liked the idea of making a logo which turned his professional name into a mirror image of itself. In the top image you posted, the other items in the logo ALSO display this bilateral symmetry.
ReplyDeleteIn the lower image, the "O" probably symbolizes the drum of one of his two-directional wheels. The reversed "R's" attached to the "O" could represent the vertical supports for the drum or even the attached pendula that would swing in opposite directions when the drum began to rotate.
Trying to interpret the "R's" as describing the path of weights within the drum seems a bit of a stretch of the imagination to me.
Do you have any OTHER clues that indicate such a path was followed by the weights?
The dog wags his tail .
ReplyDeleteI think he did it because if you wanted to look at it from the back side it would look the same . ;)
ReplyDeleteHave you guys ever experienced the vague notion that nothing can be accomplished without resistance ?
ReplyDeleteActually that's an understatement. Without wanting to sound cynical, I'd say that in my experience, everything that is remotely worthwhile is only achievable through considerable effort. Anything that's easy is almost suspect ;-)
DeleteI'm talking mechanics .
DeleteI know :-)
DeleteI also note the crown over Bessler's professional name. I think this was included because of his extreme envy of those above him in the social order of his day. Maybe it was his way of saying that, if not for the accident of having the wrong parents, he, too, might have been a member of the nobility or even royalty!
ReplyDeleteBut, despite his humble origins, he had the one thing that, at least through associations during the remaining life of Count Karl, did make him a "de facto" member of the upper crust: a WORKING OB PM gravity wheel! Is it any wonder that he guarded its secrets so obsessively? If he could keep it from being stolen and sell it, he would then have had the same amount of wealth as his benefactor! Perhaps he could even, as other noveau riche in Europe had done, have purchased a noble title for himself. Yes, "Count Bessler"...has a nice sound to it, doesn't it?!
Hmmm...what are those things on the sides of the logo? Buggy whips? Flails? Some sort of plant?
They are leaves from the Arondo Domax giant reed, which was commonly used in Organ Pipes of that period, and still is today. Bessler's role as an organ bulder.
ReplyDeleteInteresting. The fact that he would include a component from an organ into his logo shows how much he attributed his success at achieving PM with the types of components and mechanisms he learned about as an organmaker.
DeleteHmmm...now what types of components might be found in an organ of his day? Let's see...wooden levers (for keys and pedals), lead counter weights, steel pivots, brass bearings, springs, actuator CORDS. Hey, those are the SAME components found in the "right track" design for Bessler's wheels! What a "coincidence"!
The number three has more religious significance than five.
ReplyDeleteThat number is depicted in the AP wheel, along with the biblical quote; given this particular emphasis on this drawing, how does it tie in with the other clues that point to 5?
Six is out. The devil@hell.
7 is about 8. It's considered lucky.
If you stretch your imagination, anything can mean practically anything.
The R path could be an E path if you include the two tails you've taken out to support the R path theory. And the first two and last two letters in the logo aren't symmetrical, for what that's worth.
Just in case anyone hasn't read my website www.theorffyreuscode.com web, the HTARORFFYRE, which, when the left side is reversed, reads RATH ORFFYRE. The writing means COUNCILLOR ORFFYRE, but the left side is reversed, perhaps indicating two-way wheels.
ReplyDeleteBelow that there are 5 letters evenly spaced, which appear to stand for Doctor of Mathematics, Medicine and Perpetual Motion, attributes he self-proclaimed.
Using the 24 letter alphabetic-substitution we can substitute the letters for numbers. D = 4, M + 12, and P = 15. 4 + 12 +12 + 15 + 12 = 55.
They aren't symmetrical but if you treat each unit as one letter including the conjoined 'YR', you can count four letters on each side plus the 'O' of Orffyreus, the circle denoting the wheel in the centre, and you get ....5. That's five each side, two 5s, 5 and 5. Of course tbis is just my imagination and its all a huge coincidence.
JC
There's also something as "too much coincidence". The precept of Occam's razor applies here, I think - all things equal, the simplest explanation is often the correct one.
Delete@ JC
DeleteI just decided to do a quick numerological analysis of the letters in the words "RATH ORFFYRE" and found something interesting.
If we let A=1, B=2, C=3, etc. then the letter values in "RATH ORFFYRE" become: 18+1+20+8+15+18+6+6+25+18+5=140
140 is then equal to 1+4+0 which is 5!!!
Just another "coincidence", I guess. LOL!
Occam's razor could never apply to anything bessler wrote, imo.
ReplyDeleteThe references to 5 could be the best clue; I'm not arguing that, John. Why does it have to be the number of mechanisms?
If the thing would turn slowly with one, I mentioned before, maybe the five refers to something in each idividual mechanism.
Are we still without understanding?
No you're right Doug, it needn't apply to the number of mechanisms, I just think it does, but I might be wrong.
ReplyDeleteJC
I agree with doug on this one, i also think it would turn with only one cross bar and it has to be light and empty on one side and full and heavy on the other.
DeleteThe Portuguese
Oh, I DO think that the number five applies to five mechanisms...BUT to GROUPS of five mechanisms interconnected to each other via a set of five cords within each pentagram of cords. The models I am "building" now contain 8 pentagrams that use 32 of the wheel's 48 cords.
DeleteJohn ,
ReplyDeleteI have a very impressive animation here . I just thought I'd mention .
Though I'm not saying that the number 5 is not important
ReplyDeleteThe Portuguese
I just don't know what it's for
DeleteThe Portuguese
You might be interested to know that that R logo maps out the path of my present configuration,..what a coincidence!
ReplyDelete:--( )--:
ReplyDelete.{}.
DeleteHey guys... you all know that it would be much easier if we all joined forces and worked together in order to solve this, instead of each one thinking to himself that he's going to be the next Bessler, right?
ReplyDeleteThe Portuguese
Dream on!
ReplyDeleteBeen there, done that, it didn't work. Too many opinionated personalities.
ReplyDeleteJC
IF my present "right track" research is successful (looking very, VERY good so far!) I will eventually be releasing the design for others to construct and experiment with. At that point, aside from some minor technical advice, I will be "out of the picture" and they will have to form what collaborations they may to complete their constructions and patentable improvements. I wish them all the best in their efforts and I don't expect to share any of the profits they MAY make (I also won't be risking any of my own wealth should their efforts fail!). My only reward will be KNOWING that I finally solved this 300 year old mystery and proving, once and for all, that Johann Bessler was NOT a liar and a hoaxer which, sadly, is the view of him maintained by most "no trackers" today. That is more than enough "compensation" for me. I don't expect the replication of Bessler's wheels to change our current laws of physics in anyway. At best, it will teach the scientific orthodoxy to THINK MORE before they pronounce something as physically impossible to achieve.
ReplyDeleteI know, for a fact, that it IS possible for ONE person to discover and even rediscover the secret of rotary PM. Mass producing and improving upon that secret, however, is not really a one man operation. It will require, literally, an army of people who will dedicate much of their lives to the endeavor. That will be a BIG sacrifice to make, but well worth it if it results in a completely pollution free, inexhaustible supply of energy to serve the needs of humanity. Who knows, perhaps even JC's dream of an on site home electrical power PM generator will be achievable with only minimal research and engineering.
Even if none of that should happen, however, I think, at a minimum, it would still be really "cool" to have one's own model Bessler two-directional wheel spinning away on his desk or in his study as its axle counter oscillated two pendula and ran a miniature stamping mill. Wow, what a conversation piece THAT would make!
Unusually technoguy, I concur with almost everything in your above post. :-)
ReplyDeleteJC
Good luck to you guys,but I believe what Bessler said, 'that all the innermost parts retain the power of free movement'.
ReplyDelete( IMHO : Loophole ) OMG! LOL , you guys are not going to believe this ! OMG ! Not sure , gimme a little while and I will let you know . Yes , things in our way ... just like Bessler said .
ReplyDeleteJohn ,
ReplyDeleteI hope you sincerely want someone to figure this out ... you said if I ever did you'd be in touch .
Unless I'm a total idiot , this will work ! Go Bessler ... you 'da Man !
Best of luck with your latest discovery, Chris. I shall look forward to learning more details about it if and when you decide to share them. I note you paraphrase Bessler's quote from AP:
ReplyDelete"...but what I didn't know then, and indeed have only recently discovered, is that there were obstacles in our way. We were, you might say, unprepared and therefore still far from the truth."
I believe those "obstacles" were there because Bessler had not yet discovered his "Secret Principle" which involves the tricky use of spring tension to turn a "non-runner" into a "runner". Once, however, that principle is discovered and combined with the "Connectedness Principle", it immediately allows rotary PM to be achieved!
No , no TG... I'm thinking , Bessler ,Karl and I . Bessler ,Karl and I ! People already hate me . Bessler ,Karl and I !
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteCome again,..what an earth are you talking about?
ReplyDeleteI'm saying by all good reasoning I solved the problem once and for all . And I have been up all night elated but now I am gonna have to go to sleep . But Tevor , rest assured I know what was behind the cloak . I'm not just flapping my lips . Chisto4_99 aka Todd AKA Chris Wilson , the crier wolf , the guy everyone loves to hate , yours truly , etc..etc . It's not some physicist or even an upstanding "highly regarded" of even "revered" member of the B.W. board . It's ME ! Like it or not .
ReplyDeleteI dare to audaciously be so bold
ReplyDeleteTo say that the same secret never sold
Has been found again last night
How a dead thing can move with might
Never before a man has there been
A man like Johann Bessler not again
He looked and looked and looked some more
He must have looked until his eyes were sore
But I did my fair share of searching too
And had it in me but never knew
That I also could find such
If only I wanted it as much
Just as Bessler did in 1712
Wilson did in 2012
Okay,your quite a poet but, I'm still in the dark,give me a hint as to what direction your headed.
ReplyDeleteYou have claimed 100' s of times to have rediscovered Bessler's wheel!!! Find a new hobby troll.
ReplyDeleteIt is not the only goal of building a perpetual motion at all costs, but in the way experience, and knowledge expansion. Anyway, just understand this, as a hobby and do it whole-heartedly!
DeleteK
He's a parrot and he's talking to me . He's Anonymous # 110 !
DeleteJohn,..Do you not think it a good idea for those who post to qualify by means of an ID.
ReplyDeleteThis way they will think twice before they insult anyone.
I don't have to say it anymore because now I can show it . I'm not troll . Trevor , it doesn't matter the deed is done so let 'em cry ! If I had found a new hobby , you idiot , the thing may never have been found again .
ReplyDeleteWhen you know the truth you can spot bullshit from a mile away .
ReplyDeleteHave you found the way it works Chris Wilson?
DeleteThe Portuguese
Yes! Thanks for asking .
ReplyDeleteI'll be back on later . Gotta help my sis move .
ReplyDeleteEveryone should have the right to be elated or enthusiastic about one's latest revelation even if it doesn't pan out later.
ReplyDeleteIt's all a learning curve and each failure is actually an advance.
Yes and sooner or later we could possibly end up ...with enough perseverance where we set out to be.
ReplyDeleteChris,
DeleteFirst, congratulations on the discovery. Not asking for specifics but can you tell us if the design is a basic weight shifter wheel such as MT9 thru MT15 or an enhancement of your current design MT135/MT142?
Rick
It's not my other design or a modification of it, no . It's totally different .
DeletePlease don't get distracted by the attention and criticism you are receiving. If you are really here to help, then help direct us from designs that don't work and towards ones that do. I think the satisfaction of finding the solution is well worth the search and I for one am not asking for the answer. I want to feel what you are feeling and if you can help point us in the general direction, I don't think that will lesson the impact. You are the teacher now. Help us without giving us the answer. I think you would find gratification in that as Bessler would. After all wasn't that his dream.
DeleteRick
Your destiny may be to fulfill his dream.
DeleteThink about it ...
Rick
Words of a true believer ! Very rare and appreciated for sure . Thank you . My best advice is to get past all the flowery words Bessler is using to "dress up" his invention and get down to the essential of what he is saying .
DeleteWhoever you are Rick , your heartfelt post stands out as a beacon in the darkness... and warms my heart as well .
Chris, you said, "When you know the truth you can spot bullshit from a mile away." I believe we are seeing it from you.
ReplyDeleteI am soooo tired of this idiot. He has stated on overunity.com that he has claimed 100's of different times to have found the answer to Bessler's wheel. Why stop at 100's? Lets shoot for 1000's!!!!
ReplyDeleteDont worry if this design from Chris does not work. Next week he will discover the answer AGAIN!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteAnonymous,
ReplyDeleteI really can't blame you because most of what you say is in fact true ... but not all of it . As far as you being tired of it rest assured it WILL NOT be happening again . All I can say is I'm human ...both good and bad . But can I ask you , where are you in YOUR research or concepts ? And last but not least , this idiot has an understanding that nobody else including you has. So what does that say about you if I'm an idiot ? Like ,what, sub-idiot ?
John,
ReplyDeleteI have decided not to return to Besslerwheel until I have a working wheel due to some being very annoyed at what I am claiming . I think some of these guys have basically given up and have nothing better to do other than trying to provoke others and antagonize . I could extend you the same courtesy here if you like .
Todd
Please John, take him up on it!!!
ReplyDeleteI can identify with Chris' "enthusiasm" when it comes to the subject of Bessler wheel mechanics. Many, many, MANY times in the past, I was convinced that I had found THE solution to Bessler's wheels and that would produce an extended state of elation in me that could last for days! Sometimes I was so convinced that my latest "can't fail" design was correct that I even considered obtaining a patent on it BEFORE I had a working model since it was SO obvious that it HAD to work! I thank God now that I never did that nor would ever consider the patent route again!
ReplyDeleteInevitably, a quick build, computational analysis, or computer model would then show me that the design did NOT keep its CoM on the wheel's descending side and, worst of all, NO modification of the design would help. That dreaded result would then plunge me into a state of deep despair what would, like the elation phase, linger for days. Once returning to planet Earth again, I would try to avoid thinking about PM for awhile hoping that the "bug" would leave my system and I could finally get off of this "roller coaster ride". But, inevitably, the infection would flare up again and my mind would begin obsessing about more possible solutions. Yes, this is one of the more terrible forms of bondage in which one can find himself!
This is why I am so glad (thank you, God!) that I finally stumbled upon the "right track" approach. I now KNOW (and, yes, I DO mean KNOW!) that I am headed in the right direction at long last and that final success is only a matter of X additional hours of modeling and testing. EVERY component in my design is FULLY verified by the various "hidden" clues in the DT portraits as well as the obvious ones in the rest of the Bessler literature. Indeed, if I could go back in time and show Johann Bessler what I now have, he would probably turn green and faint dead away!!! LOL!
Obviously, I can not comment on Chris' latest design without more details. He either has what I now have (very unlikely) or he has an alternative design (most likely). If the latter is the case, then it is either a "runner" or it is a "NON runner". If the former, then he will deserve whatever praise he receives for it. If the latter, then it can either be turned into a "runner" or it can not be turned into a "runner". If the former, then he or whoever makes it into a "runner" will deserve the praise he gets. If the latter, then it's time to take a break, rest for awhile, and then get back to work again.
Meanwhile, I keep my focus on the "right track" design and continue to make slow, but steady progress toward the first successful elucidation of Bessler's secret wheel mechanics in 300 years!
Here's my (harsh) opinion:— If someone makes a claim to have solved Bessler's wheel and then fails to follow it up with the real thing, that person's credibility sinks to zero, and stays there until they do produce the real thing. Still, I suppose the never-ending claims to have found the solution do have a certain entertainment value!
ReplyDeleteNot to mention that If I am right everyone elses credibility suffers including but not limited to all the mental giants at BW and our beloved JC himself . So then the begged question seems to be what is more important , the wheel or all these inflated egos ? Everyone pretends and exudes airs of superiority ,.. they are on the correct path , that their knowledge ( even if obscure to the point of superstition at times ) or accumulated by years and years of the wrong ideas , is somehow more valid that someone elses . I am tired of dancing to everyone's tune , because most of it is just simply ill will projected on others . Believe me , credibility can't and won't make a wheel revolve perpetually ... so it's only good for making judgements , something which I have found most all of those involved think they are quite good at ... and in reality are quite unfeeling beasts .
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteOr to put it another way . No P.M.= no credibility , and I don't mind holding myself to that also . It's just that all these people who you would think from the outside would have some simply don't .
ReplyDeleteThis isn't a show for which you have to purchase a ticket , it's something that if you are smart enough you don't have to answer to anyone except yourself .
ReplyDeleteJohn, when is your new book coming out?
ReplyDeleteIt's better to be actively trying something and fail than just doing nothing at all.
ReplyDeleteAt least we know something is happening and sooner or later we are going to crack it.
Thanks for asking Vincent. It's just about finished but I'm hoping to complete a successful version of my own wheel first, which would make finding a publisher much much easier. I will seek a publisher anyway if my own efforts to build Bessler's wheel fail again. I'm going to try really hard to get a publisher for the new book, I gave up too soon with my first book.
ReplyDeleteJC
Thanks John,and i wish you sincerely good luck with your wheel.
ReplyDeleteI my self will start next project.(physical not theoretical)
THIMC,
ReplyDeleteEveryone seems to be able to get along . The thing is if you guys knew how I have pushed myself to solve this thing I'd be getting congrats and a pat on the back for my efforts instead of what I'm actually getting . But in the end I guess giants must be slain , they don't just concur . While all of you have been treating this as a hobby I've been treating it like a job . So you guys lighten up a bit .
Congrats, Chris!
DeleteYes, I WILL offer you congratulations...even IF your design is just another "wrong track" one (still to be determined) because I know from first hand experience that one has to see something...anything impressive to get REALLY "fired up" over a design and you, obviously, are fired up over what you've found. Everytime that I get frustrated that I'm having trouble deciphering one of Bessler's MANY internal wheel mechanics clues, I remember his quote:
"It took a tremendous amount of calculation before I was able to devise this machine! It took a great deal of time before it was all properly figured out!"
And, yes, the quest for PM, in general, or the secret of Bessler's wheels, in particular, CAN become an all consuming one...IF one let's it. It's good to occasionally take a "vacation" from the subject. One does not have to fly off to Sunny Spain to do that. Sometimes just staying out of the shop or away from the computer for a few days is the solution. I find that while I take such a vacation, my unconscious mind continues to work on the problem and then, upon returning to the quest, I suddenly see things in an entirely new light. What previously seemed impossible or did not make sense will suddenly be childishly simple and quite logical to me.
Thx . But i assure you I am just getting started .
ReplyDelete"is somehow more valid that"
ReplyDeleteIt's "more THAN", Wilson, you American idiot...
....5 è il rapporto di corsa....tra la corsa corta e quella lunga di ogni singolo club.........
ReplyDeleteITL....