I've mentioned Karl's involvement with Denis Papins before, but something occurred to me recently and I thought I'd post my thoughts here. Prior to Bessler's arrival Karl had funded the experiments of Denis Papin who was attemting to develop a steam engine. Papin stayed with the Landgrave for ten years, finally leaving, having been invited to London in 1707, he died there in 1712.
During his stay in Kassel, in 1704, he constructed a ship powered by his steam engine, mechanically linked to paddles. This made him the first to construct a steam-powered boat. How successful it was we don't know, but I suspect that it wasn't the complete solution Papin envisaged. He left his wife at Kassel when he went to London, possibly thinking he might return in the near future, and I've found a letter written in 1708, referring to Karl's hope that Papin would return to Kassel to continue his experiments. I suggest that it was perhaps news of Papin's death in 1712 that persuaded Karl to accommodate Bessler in his castle at that time. Curiously it was also this year that Newcomen exhibited his first Newcoment steam engine at Dudley castle in England.
Fischer von Erlach examined Bessler's wheel and must have been invited to the court by Karl - they couldn't just turn up uninvited. Professor 'sGravesend was also invited and I had always assumed that they were there to examine Bessler's wheel, but taking into account the fact that Papin had carried out experiments on the lake near to the castle, to build a steam-powered boat, I suspect they were there for another purpose. Leibniz had aided Papin in the development of a steam engine based on an invention by Thomas Savery, but this had proved problematic to construct. Details of the engine were published in 1707.
Both 'sGravesende and von Erlach, and indeed Desaguliers, were closely involved in the development of Captain Savery's engine, but this was eventually dropped in favour of the more powerful and reliable Newcomen steam engine. I suspect that Karl was motivated by thoughts of adapting either Newcomen's or Savery's engine to power the boat. To this end he sent Captain Weber to England in 1716 to obtain information on the Newcomen steam-engine, and he is also recorded as being the leader of the surveying team for a projected series of canals which were to enable Karlshafen to become an inland port. He was Karl's chief engineer and was charged with the task of draining the marshes to create canals. But Captain weber's efforts to try to learn the secrets of the Newcomen engine came to no avail, they were just as secretive as Bessler was.
Steam-powered boats? new canals? Steam engines? Put them together and knowing that the cascade at Kassel was powered by four man-made lakes above the start of the cascade, and therefore did not require Bessler's wheel to pump water to the top, and you have the beginnings of an attempt to produce steam-powered boats designed to ply the canals bringing goods to and from Karlshafen. Perhaps Karl had considered the possibility of trying to adapt Bessler's wheel for use in a boat?
JC
...or perhaps Karl recognized the fact that Bessler's wheel could only power a row boat...
ReplyDeleteAnony-mouse strikes again ...
ReplyDelete@ "Chris Wilson", who wrote:
Delete"Anony-mouse strikes again ..."
You're wrong, Chris, or Todd, or whoever you really are ... that wasn't one of my posts. The conclusion that you so readily jumped to, is incorrect. I'm not the only one posting anonymously.
Btw - My reply to Technoguy's post, where I stated that I was 'awaiting proof of his claims', was merely expressing my opinion regarding his inference that a successful simulation could be considered a Proof of Concept, or as he said it, "a successful rediscovery of THE design that Bessler found and used in his wheels". That, and his "DT Portrait Clues" theory in general.
Consider it a continuation of my prior apophenia post.
@Chris,
DeleteIf you have ever sculled or rowed a boat with fixed oars, then you would know something about torque. Try to educate yourself before making another foolish statement.
@ whichever Anonymous wrote: "My reply to Technoguy's post, where I stated that I was 'awaiting proof of his claims', was merely expressing my opinion regarding his inference that a successful simulation could be considered a Proof of Concept..."
DeleteI also stated that the concept of "proof" is really a somewhat subjective one. I KNOW what I have to see in order to consider the Bessler mystery SOLVED. That's really ALL I am interested in achieving because I don't have the time or patience to try to convince every other "wrong track" mobilist out there that I do, in fact, have THE solution. When (IF) I find that solution, I will present it and then let matters run their course. IF I am right, then, eventually, the design I present will be accepted as THE one. IF I can not find the solution, then I won't be presenting any of the research I've done to date because I wouldn't want it to lead others astray who might actually be on the "right track" (where "right track" is defined as being on the path that leads to the ACTUAL design that Bessler found and used and not to some OTHER design which MIGHT work, but, most highly probably, will NOT).
As far as your "prior apophenia post" is concerned, all I can say is that where the vast majority of people see a meaningless jumble of lines and symbols drawn on sheets of paper, others will see the instructions for performing a symphony. Those who create that music do not consider themselves to be suffering from "apophenia"!
Maybe Papin arrived in England and, upon eventually learning more of the details of the Newcomen steam engine, became very depressed when he realized that his crude prototype could never compete with it. That depression might then have led to the deterioration of this physical health and his death in 1712 which actually would have been a kind of slow suicide. It is a difficult thing to face the reality that one's lifetime of effort will not amount to much.
ReplyDeleteI'm also sure that Bessler and Karl probably discussed using one of the former's wheels to propel a boat. Bessler, full of confidence that there were really no practical limits to his wheels, might even have promised Karl that, after the Weissenstein Castle wheel was completed, he would construct the first OB PM gravity wheel powered boat for him. That promise would have been shown to be a mere pipe dream after Karl saw how little was the constant power output of the 12 diameter two-directional wheel at his castle. With the Weissenstein Castle wheel destroyed, it was time for Bessler to go and for Karl to get on to other matters of state such as turning Karlshafen into an inland port that would use steam powered boats for commerce.
I even sometimes wonder if Bessler's death in 1745 might actually have been a suicide. Karl, his benefactor and friend, was dead and buried and Bessler's last attempt to sell his wheel design to the Royal Society had fallen through. Bessler was broke, hungry, and obligated to construct a windmill that, although of a unique design, did NOT use his OB PM gravity wheels in any way because, obviously, they were NOT powerful enough to do the same job that wind could do. Bessler must have perceived this as the ultimate indignity and that, PERHAPS, might have drove him to hurling himself off of the top of the still incomplete windmill. As a Christian he would have considered suicide as a "mortal sin". But, when the pain of depression becomes great enough, the victim, even a very religiously devout one, may begin to rationalize why suicide could actually be considered a pardonable sin that would quickly end the pain and, hopefully, let one's soul arrive in Heaven if he or she had led an otherwise moral life. Unfortunately, there were no effective medications for the disease of depression in the early 18th century.
I read somewhere that depressed males often commit suicide from elevated locations such as hanging themselves in the attic of a home or jumping off of a bridge. That type of ending seems to fit in with the tragic ending of Bessler. (Females, OTOH, tend to favor gentler suicides that involve the use of things like poisons and drug overdoses.)
" Indeed now it has reached such a Stand ... that even that of a bad craftsmasters Hand ... without anything major in the head fracturing ... and ( before one is mistaken ) can be done with the work's manufacturing ..."
ReplyDeletedidn't you promise to leave
DeleteYes I did . But now is a critical time . I am building something that's fit to build . (note: I'm not spouting off codes or %-tages , or explaining how it's OB and all such nonsense ). One day soon you will wonder why it is you ever tried to provoke me , you having nothing to offer but your ill intent . Even the author/owner of this site will have to find room in his heart ( to forgive and forget ) , and throat ( to swallow his pride ) .
DeleteGood luck, Chris. At least you are DOING something toward achieving results and not just taking root in a comfortable armchair and pontificating away like so many others seem content to do.
DeleteYes , my hands are sore and my legs are cramping . I am working in a 10 x 10 storage unit . The six foot wheel will have to wait . I settled for a 36 inch proof of concept after the big one broke in half twice while I was moving it around .
DeleteLarge sheets of wood can be tricky to work with. I consider the 36 inch diameter wheel the IDEAL size to start with...and so did the Master!
DeleteSome disappointing news to report. I've just completed the testing of my current "weight to rim stop contact BEFORE the 3:00 position" model wheel and...it FAILED to produce the "Bessler Effect" even though I used the maximum allowable spring constants on the design's primary and secondary springs.
ReplyDeleteFrom studying the model's running simulation, it's apparent to me that the weighted levers whose pivots are located from 10:30 to 1:30 are just not yet sufficiently counter balanced enough so that the relatively small lifting torque being delivered TO the 9:00 going to 10:30 and 10:30 going to 12:00 weighted levers BY the single 7:30 going to 9:00 weighted lever can cause all of the 10:30 to 1:30 weighted levers to IMMEDIATELY begin shifting their weights back toward their rim stops as the 1:30 weighted lever proceeds toward the 3:00 drum position. For the "Bessler Effect" to take place, this shifting MUST begin as soon as possible after the beginning of EACH 45 degree increment of drum rotation.
This failure now forces me to pursue the alternative approach which does NOT have the 3:00 weighted lever in contact with its rim stop (actual contact not taking place until somewhere between the 3:00 and 4:30 drum positions). This will introduce the counter balancing torque provided by an EXTRA weighted lever AND its stretched primary spring and, hopefully, that will then be sufficient to allow that 7:30 going to 9:00 weighted lever to immediately get the shifting of all of the weighted levers leading it started after the 45 degree increment of drum rotation commences. The drawback with this approach is that it will not horizontally project the CoM of the design's 8 weights as far onto the wheel's descending side as the former approach does (thus lowering the initial torque supplied to the axle a bit), but that might be the "price" that one must pay in order to obtain a working wheel.
Both of these approaches, the "before" and "after" 3:00 drum position weight to rim stop contact, are indicated in the DT portrait clues and, obviously, both can not be correct at the same time. One must, therefore, choose which to initially pursue and I made the wrong choice which, I suspect, was EXACTLY what Bessler wanted to happen! I'm hoping that this is the LAST obstacle that the Master decided to put in the way of future reverse engineering mobilists as they struggle to find THE design he found and used.
Over the next few days, I will begin the "construction" of the alternative design that does not have weight to rim contact taking place until AFTER a weighted lever's pivot has passed the 3:00 position of a CW rotating drum. If THAT design does NOT finally work, then I will either have to admit defeat OR perform the most careful re-analysis of the clues that I have ever made just to eliminate the possibility that I missed something critical along the way or misinterpreted one of the clues. I will, of course, be pursuing that latter option!
TG, thanks again for ANOTHER daily update on your " WRONG TRACK " design which you are 1% complete. Yawn ...
ReplyDeleteYou're quite welcome, Mr. Anonymous. But, my current "RIGHT track" design is now actually 99.9% complete, not 1%. Unfortunately, that last 0.01% of the way is REALLY rough to cross.
ReplyDeleteSorry if you find my occasional research "updates" not as stimulating as you would like. I can well imagine that any mobilist NOT on the "right track" might find them to be so. However, I am confident that those ACTIVE mobilists out there in PM land who ARE on the "right track" already or who are about to switch over to it WILL find them VERY interesting with the level of stimulation they derive from them depending upon how far along the track their current research happens to be. I take great care to try to report my activities as accurately as possible so that, should I suddenly disappear from the scene, there will be a trail of hints left behind to help guide SERIOUS future reverse engineering Bessler mobilists as they struggle to solve the ULTIMATE historical mystery.
The "key" to successly replicating Bessler's wheels consists of TWO intertwinned components: meticulous study of the Bessler literature with a VERY HEAVY emphasis on the two DT portraits AND CONSTANT building and testing / computer modeling and simulation testing. There is NO other way to final success and the results will not come quickly no matter how bored one is or how eager he is for a quick solution. It that was possible, then this mystery would have been solved CENTURIES ago!
Hello,hello,..Are there any real builders out there?
ReplyDeleteJohn ,..It seems you're getting a lot of junk mail lately.
ReplyDeleteYes they seem to come along in bunches Trevor. I just delete them, otherwise I would have to bring in some kind of authentification system which spoils it for people.
ReplyDeleteJC
Hi Trevor. I am a real builder. I probably have 20 wheel discs in my garage ranging from two feet to seven feet in diameter. Great hobby! Justsomeone
ReplyDeleteMaybe you could give us all a common password to gain entry for all club members.
ReplyDeleteThe Orffyre Fan Club?
DeleteYeah,that right. The not so awful fan club!
DeleteNot an option, unfortunately Trevor. I can use the 'Add Readers link and then enter the email address of a person to whom you want to grant access to your blog. To add multiple people, separate their addresses with commas.' It would take for ever to add all the reader's addresses. Or I can make everyone sign in but that is unwieldy and unfair to guest readers. So I'm stuck with the way it is.
ReplyDeleteJC
Well, I guess the occasional spammer is the price that must be paid in order to perserve the ease of use of this blog.
ReplyDeleteI'm already starting to do some preliminary modeling on the "contact AFTER 3:00" version of my "right track" 4:1 scale virtual model of one of the one-directional "sub wheels" incorporated into the full sized Merseburg wheel and, using the maximum allowable spring constants on the primary springs attached to its weighted levers, I've noticed an interesting effect.
While the starting location of the alternative model's eight 1 ounce weights is a bit closer, horizontally, to a vertical line passing through the center of the axle than it was for the recently failed "contact BEFORE 3:00" version (only about 0.18 inches as compared to 0.22 inches for the previously failed version), shortly after the beginning of a 45 degree increment of drum rotation, the weighted levers from 10:30 to 3:00 VERY quickly shift so as to bring their weights closer to their rim stops and that sudden action then causes the CoM of the model's 8 weights to, literally, FLY over, horizontally, to a location that is almost 0.30 inches displaced, horizontally, from that vertical line through the center of the axle. (This effect, however, is only seen when the 10:30 weighted lever is not interconnected by cords to the weighted levers that lag it.)
IF this alternative version of the model wheel I will soon be "constructing" works, then, quite possibly, its CoM will NOT remain fixed at a particular location on the wheel's descending side. Indeed, the CoM MAY actually oscillate back and forth a bit, horizontally, from a location that is 0.18 inches from the vertical line through the center of the axle to a position that is about 0.30 inches away from that line. Thus, the CoM's location would complete one cycle of this oscillation during the time duration of EACH 45 degree increment of drum rotation and this would mean that, for every complete rotation of the model wheel, the torque supplied to its axle would PULSE 8 times!
I'm actually hoping that this pulsating torque effect does NOT take place because I like to think of Bessler's wheels as having outputted a CONSTANT torque at any of the rotation rates they had. But, this might not be the case. In fact, there might have been a SPECIFIC reason for the particular locations of those 8 pegs on the left side of the Merseburg wheel's axle what were used to sequentially lift and then drop the four wooden stamps 8 times per axle rotation. Perhaps those pegs were carefully positioned on the axle so that they were applying the maximum lifting force to the stamps just as a peg's lengthwise axis became horizontally oriented and the stamp was then applying maximum downward force on its contacting end. This arrangement would then have used the peak value of the axle's pulsating torque to lift the stamp just when that maximum lifting force was needed.
Well, these are all interesting possibilities to ponder for the moment. Hopefully, I'll have some simulation verified results to report by next week.
New post on BW regarding WM2D. May be applicable to recent posts here.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5529
WM2D certainly has its issues with the main one that I found most annoying being the erroneous interactions that it sometimes gives between user shaped polygons and circles. Fortunately, the current wheel design that I am working on does not have such polygons in it.
DeleteAs with all modeling and sim programs, the user will eventually become aware of WM2D's problem areas and learn to avoid or minimize them.
Here are some AP quotes that I keep coming back to:
ReplyDelete"Wagner describes how he thinks my machine is constructed; he babbles about “excess weights” being snatched along, by means of “internal motive power”, in a frequently-repeated cycle of up and down movements. According to him, Nature dictates that things gravitate downwards. But the weights, which rest below must, in a flash, be raised upwards, and it is this, that Wagner cannot force himself to accept. But, crazy Wagner, just note that that is indeed the case with my device." (AP, pg. 341)
"It’s no matter – I don’t wish to go into details here of how suddenly the excess weight is caused to rise. You [Wagner] can’t comprehend these matters, or see how true craftsmanship can rise above innate lowly tendencies (as does a weight about the point of application of a lever)." (AP, pg. 357)
"Even according to the ideas my enemies express in their writings, my Wheel is the true device, and is indeed, per se, a genuine Perpetuum Mobile. None better will ever be found upon this earth, for without the principle that I alone possess, there can be no real perpetual motion." (AP, pg. 363)
My question currently concerns the phrase "But the weights, which rest below must, in a flash, be raised upwards...".
It's obvious to me that the weights that Bessler is referring to are the ones whose lever pivots arrive at and then pass the 9:00 position of a CW rotating drum. These weights do "rest below" the horizontal level of their levers' pivots when the pivots are at the 9:00 position. But, then, as the pivots continue to travel between the 9:00 and 10:30 positions of the drum, the weighted levers begin rotating CW about their lever's pivot and this then causes their attached end weights to begin approaching their rim stops so that they are "raised upwards".
I wonder, however, just how fast "in a flash" means. Does it mean that the motion of a weighted lever weight toward its rim stop is spread out UNIFORMLY over the ENTIRE duration of a 45 degree interval of drum rotation? Or, does it mean that ALL of the shifting is completed EARLY in the interval of drum rotation? From the standpoint of the design I am currently working on, it would, indeed, be nice if all of the shifting was completed as early in the interval of drum rotation as possible. In other words, if the shifting was VERY sudden instead of just gradual and spread out over the entire interval.
I also find this phrase of interest: "...for without the principle that I alone possess, there can be no real perpetual motion." The implication is that Bessler found some trick method that allowed him to make his drum's ascending side levers rise "in a flash". I do believe that I now have most of the details of that "trick" he used. BUT, the trick is only workable IF all of the OTHER parameters of the design are correct such as the initial weighted lever configuration at the start of an interval of drum rotation, "magic" lever shape, cord attachment points on the levers, number and arrangement of interconnecting cords, spring constants and starting tensions, etc., etc.
In the face of all of these requirements that MUST be met before Bessler's design can finally be replicated, it's good to know that there IS a source for this information. I won't bother saying what it is again because I'm sure that by this time you all know exactly what I am referring to!
Amazing, just 2 days ago you were headed down the wrong track. Once again you have the "most" of the details of that trick he used. I don't know who's the biggest bloviating PMless wonder, you or Chris.
DeleteWell, Mr. Anonymous, it is not my intention to sound boastful or pompous (i.e., "bloviating") as I describe some of the details of the Bessler research that I am currently immersed in. The point of my recent comments was to let my fellow mobilists know that I've reached a distinct fork in the "right track" approach that offered me TWO possible paths to follow (BOTH supported by DT portrait clues!). I obviously followed the WRONG path and, consequently, I derived a design that stubbornly refused to display the "Bessler Effect". Quite fortunately, there IS an alternative path remaining that I will soon be exploring. IF THAT alternative design fails to produce the Bessler Effect, then I WILL be at a MAJOR obstacle in my research. However, a good mobilist NEVER lets such setbacks deter him. "MAJOR" obstacles are just ones that require a bit more time to work around than minor ones.
DeleteYes, I certainly am, at THIS point in time, a "PMless wonder", but that's a condition I've suffered from for DECADES! The "cure" is to finally reach the end of the "right track" at which time I will find THE design Bessler found and used waiting for me. Only then will I be in a position to share the results with everyone so that SOME of them can get to work trying to turn the design into a WORKING replica of one of Bessler's wheels. I don't want to offer ANY design that I am not VERY confident will lead a builder to a successful physical model.
I suspect that, once THE design is finally revealed (IF that happens!), there will be MUCH discussion about just how "simple" the design really is. I think most will agree that, indeed, it is simple. But, some will, no doubt, say that, although simple, the "tricky" element to it is certainly NOT simple. It is that "tricky" part which is probably the reason that no one in the last 300 years managed to find THE design Bessler did and why no one else's OB PM gravity wheel designs worked.
It's been 300 years since Bessler first introduced his marvelous PM wheels to the world and NOW is the time to finally solve the mystery of HOW they worked. I intend to solve that mystery. If I fail, then so be it. At least, if nothing else, I will KNOW that I made my maximum effort to achieve success and, hopefully, my efforts will inspire others to carry on after me.
TG - Have you considered the possibility that since you started using a simulation program you may have been modifying your clue interpretation to satisfy it's idiosyncrasies?
ReplyDeleteI have, on occasion, feared that Bessler's wheels might use some mechanism that can NOT be simulated with the low cost modeling / simulation programs generally available online or which might require me to add modeling tools to the software that would require the use of specialized programming language that I don't have the time or inclination to learn.
DeleteHowever, from a study of the DT portraits which contain symbols for ALL of the components used in Bessler wheels, it becomes apparent to me that his wheels only contained weights, levers, pivots, cords, and springs and ALL of these are EASILY handled by the vast majority of the readily available modeling / sim programs on the web.
Also, my interpretations of the DT clues are NOT dependent upon what a particular sim program can or can not simulate. My interpretations are completely independent of the programs. This is why, so far, I see no reason why Bessler's wheels can not be simulated with a virtual wheel. For the time being, I am using WM2D and am very pleased with its performance. The real limiting factor in my use of it is MY computer which is now almost obsolete due to its age, but is still hanging in there as long as the simulations do not become too complex.
"...in a flash, be raised upwards...".
ReplyDeleteI think we have to look at the motion of the weights relative to the rotation of the wheel. In a flash would seem to indicate very quickly if not instantaneously. Certainly not more time than it would take the wheel to rotate maybe 5 degrees.
Another consideration would be, to which wheel was this statement directed, since Bessler said his wheels worked on "quite different principles".
Here is something to consider, if you need to raise a weight from point A to point B, there are two ways to acheive this. You can physically move the weight from A to B, or you can keep the weight at the same height and wait for point B to move to point A (an effortless approach).
"I think we have to look at the motion of the weights relative to the rotation of the wheel."
DeleteAgreed. I suspect that the sudden motion of the weights was actually being described by Bessler relative to their lever's PIVOTS which would have been moving along at the SAME rotation RATE as the drum that contained them. While watching the uncloaked drum of one of his wheels in rotation, Bessler's and Karl's attentions would have been drawn to the ascending side weights the most since their motions, RELATIVE to their levers' pivots, would have been the fastest taking place inside of the drum.
Visually amazing as the "Bessler Effect" must have been to observe, we must remember that this one swift rising of a weight was being "paid for" by the much slower and less noticeable DESCENT of 5 other weights (and the contraction of some of their primary springs). But, achieving the "Bessler Effect" IN PRACTICE is NO easy task! It has eluded mobilists for 300 years now, but, hopefully, I'll finally soon have the full details of the method Bessler used.
Achieving the "Bessler Effect" really comes down to a matter of making sure that ALL of the weighted levers in the top half of a wheel that suddenly move closer to their rim stops during each 45 degree increment of drum rotation are VERY carefully counter balanced against each other by their interconnecting cords and the two types of stretched springs attached to them so that a SINGLE weighted lever (the one whose lever pivot moves between a CW rotating drum's 7:30 and 9:00 positions) can initiate the entire process, if it is sudden and then completed, or which initiates and then CONTROLS the process, if it is more gradual and spread over the time duration of the entire interval of drum rotation.
There is something in the above comment that was more pronounced with it's original colors than with the colors you assigned to it .
Deletecongrats Chris
DeleteI began the "construction" of the "contact AFTER 3:00" model wheel earlier today and, so far, everthing is proceeding smoothly. I might even have it done by tomorrow and ready for testing by mid-week.
ReplyDeleteI'm beginning to think that a spring constant or k value of the model wheel's weighted levers' primary springs of 1.0000 lbs/in. (corresponding to 16 lbs/in. in the full size Merseburg wheel) is too high even though that was the value I derived a several weeks ago in another blog entry's comments section when we were discussing the "Screw Barrel Microscope Clue" in the second DT portrait. It's possible that that clue's k value for the FULL size Merseburg wheel was MISinterpreted by me at that time and may, indeed, be much smaller...perhaps only half as great or 8 lbs/in. (corresponding to 0.50000 lbs/in. in my 4:1 scale model wheel).
Well, when my current virtual wheel is completed, I'll be testing both of those k values as well as others to see which gives the best results. In the final analysis, one's interpretations of the DT portrait clues are ALWAYS subject to future revisions in the light of a real or virtual wheel's test results.
PART I:
ReplyDeleteJust a quick follow up on that line from my last comment:
"I'm beginning to think that a spring constant or k value of the model wheel's weighted levers' primary springs of 1.0000 lbs/in. (corresponding to 16 lbs/in. in the full size Merseburg wheel) is too high even though that was the value I derived a several weeks ago in another blog entry's comments section when we were discussing the "Screw Barrel Microscope Clue" in the second DT portrait."
As some may recall, I derived the k value of 16 lbs/in. by drawing a vertical line down along the optical axis of the screw barrel microscope on the right side of the table in the second portrait until it reached the letters "NB" below the portrait. I noted that the two letters were strangely overlapped so that, if cut into two pieces, one obtained what looked like the Roman numeral for 4 which was "IV" and the Arabic numeral for 3 which was simply "3". I then separated the Roman numerals into "I" and "V" or "1" and "5". Next, I stated that the k value of the primary springs used in the full size Merseburg wheel (symbolized by the spring inside the base section of the microscope) could be gotten by manipulating these numerals.
I obtained a k value of 16 lbs/in. for the Merseburg wheel's primary springs by simply MULTIPLYING the Roman numeral for "5" by the Arabic numeral "3" to obtain 15 and then added the Roman numeral "I" to this sum to obtain "16" or 16 lbs/in.
When I set the k values of the primary springs to 16 lbs/in. in my previous failed "contact BEFORE 3:00" model wheel, I noted that, indeed, this high value allowed my weighted levers with pivots located between 10:30 and 3:00 to retain their orientations despite them even being jerked suddenly as the wheel was made to rotate and was nearly instantly accelerated to -1 rpm by the motor attached to it. The problem with such a high k value for the primary springs, however, is that, as the weighted levers' pivots pass the 6:00 position of a CW rotating drum and begin to stretch the primary springs attached to them, it tends to prevent the levers there from assuming verticality as their pivots approach the drum's 7:30 position until late in a 45 degree interval of drum rotation and that delay then tends to pull the CoM of the model wheel's 8 weights toward the punctum quietus and, indeed, even past it an onto the wheel's ascending side! (Indeed, at a k value above about 20 lbs/in. vertically for a lever with its pivot at 7:30 becomes impossible.)
PART II:
ReplyDeleteThe obvious solution to this problem is to use LOWER k values on the primary springs than I initially interpreted the "Screw Barrel Microscope Clue" to mean which was 16 lbs/in. For example, since we only have several numerals to work with in the clue such as 1, 4, 5, and 3, one might have to try various different mathematical manipulations of the numerals in order to finally find THE k value that Bessler intended to encrypt with this clue. Thus, the correct primary spring k value he used in the Merseburg wheel might have been either 3=3, IV=4, V=5, I+V=6, IV+3=7, V+3=8, I+V+3=1+5+3=9 and this ASSUMES that the manipulations do NOT involve multiplication as I used with my first attempt at interpreting the clue. After I finally complete my current "Contact AFTER 3:00" model wheel I will have to test its performance using k values from 3 lbs/in. to 9 lbs/in. and even the previously derived 16 lbs/in. just to make sure that last value can be safely eliminated from consideration.
I've gone to the trouble of describing the possible interpretations of the "Screw Barrel Microscope Clue" here so that readers will appreciate the level of analysis that must be performed before one can have faith that his interpretation of a particular clue is valid. However, in ALL cases, a clue can only be truly verified AFTER it has been tested using a real or virtual wheel. And, EVEN THEN, it's STILL possible that a clue's interpretation, which one was, perhaps for a long time, 100% certain of, must be revised yet again after some future test shows it is not quite right.
Yes, the "right track" approach to solving the Bessler wheel mystery is, regrettably, NOT a straight and smooth one, but, rather, has MANY twists and turns in it. ONLY the MOST persistent of reverse engineering Bessler mobilists will have ANY hope of completing 100% of the journey down that perilous track. BUT, if it is NOT completed by someone, then this mystery will REMAIN a mystery FOREVER!
"BUT, if it [the "right track" approach] is NOT completed by someone, then this mystery [the Bessler wheel mystery] will REMAIN a mystery FOREVER!"
DeleteI could not disagree with you more! You are wrong.
I am not following the "right track" approach either, but rather clues in MT, and am very much headed towards a solution.
DeleteAnonymous 11:29 wrote:
Delete"I could not disagree with you more! You are wrong."
Well, there is, most highly likely, only ONE design that Bessler found and used and, consequently, there can only be ONE path or "right track" that leads to it. The FACT that the VAST majority of Bessler mobilists are pursuing DIFFERENT approaches or are on different paths from each other PROVES that the vast majority of them ARE on "wrong tracks" as far as finding THE design Bessler used is concerned (however, that does NOT necessarily mean that they can not find a DIFFERENT design that DOES work!). I, of course, claim to be on THE "right track" that Besseler was based on my study of the DT portraits.
Time will tell who is right. Meanwhile, I continue to remain confident that it WILL be ME!
"...entirely different principles..." could imply entirely different "right track" approaches.
DeleteOf course "right track" is your definition of a solution coming from clues you see in the Bessler portraits. If the portraits don't allow for "entirely different principles" then you are on the "wrong track" in my definition of a solution.
DeleteAnonymous 15:07 wrote:
Delete"If the portraits don't allow for "entirely different principles" then you are on the "wrong track" in my definition of a solution."
The DT portraits only provide clues for ONE approach which I, paraphrasing Bessler, refer to as the "right track". It took an INCREDIBLE stroke of luck and near Herculean effort for Bessler to find that SINGLE design that worked and thinking that he had MULTIPLE DIFFERENT designs that produced PM is totally absurd, IMO. He even says at one point:
"Even according to the ideas my enemies express in their writings, my Wheel is the true device, and is indeed, per se, a genuine Perpetuum Mobile. None better will ever be found upon this earth..." (AP, pg. 363)
Here Bessler is describing a SINGLE wheel design and not one of many designs. The reason being that he did not have multiple different designs that produced PM. IF he did have other WORKING designs (the hodge-podge collection of UNworkable designs in MT NOT included!), then why not include them and write something like "None better than my various designs will ever be found upon this earth..."?
"Good" news to report. My "Contact AFTER 3:00" model wheel is NOW completed and ready for testing!
ReplyDeleteThe real version of this ONE-directional virtual wheel will contain 8 weighted levers, 56 cords, 8 primary springs, and 16 secondary springs. But, only 32 of the cords actually interconnect the weighted levers with each other while the other 24 cords connect the levers to their two types of springs (each weighted lever has one primary and two secondary springs attached to it by three cords). The various cords are neatly distributed amongst 5 parallel "layers" within the drum so that no two cords rub against each other during drum rotation.
It seems, at this point in time, that all that is necessary now is to adjust the primary spring k values and their initial tensions (that is, the constant tension they apply to an unloaded lever when it is resting against its radial support member stop and aligned with the member) until, finally, the "Bessler Effect" is observed as the wheel is made to rotate through a 45 degree increment of rotation.
Hopefully, the testing can begin tomorrow and, so far, I anticipate only one possible problem.
IF I must reduce the k value of primary springs too much, then they will not be able to maintain the upper half of the drum's weighted levers in their starting orientations. When that happens, it will be necessary to introduce 8 gravity activated latches into the design to provide the support. I'd prefer NOT to have to exercise this option, but, if it's necessary for success, then it must be done (there are, BTW, several clues in the DT portraits that indicate the use of such a latch, but I'm hoping they are only false or "decoy" clues!).
I have MUCH testing to do with this design over the remainder of this week.
I just looked up the definition of impossible. According to Webster.....Impossible ... TG making a long story short. Justsomeone
ReplyDeleteLOL! Good one, JSO!
DeleteI could probably "make a long story short", but my making short comments without any real details would only tell everyone that I'm working on Bessler's wheel and using DT portrait clues to guide me. Big deal. Some extra details, however, aside from documenting my continuing progress, might just inspire others to also consider getting on the "right track" so that we will have hope of actually solving the Bessler wheel mystery in OUR lifetimes!
Tic , toc ...
ReplyDeleteHow is your build going! Chris? Justsomeone
ReplyDeleteIt's going great . Thanks for asking .
DeleteTo momentarily return to the topic of this blog entry (what a novel idea! LOL!), JC wrote:
ReplyDelete"Steam-powered boats? new canals? Steam engines? Put them together and knowing that the cascade at Kassel was powered by four man-made lakes above the start of the cascade, and therefore did not require Bessler's wheel to pump water to the top, and you have the beginnings of an attempt to produce steam-powered boats designed to ply the canals bringing goods to and from Karlshafen."
No matter how many artificial lakes supplied Karl's cascade, if they were not to be emptied completely, then they could only supply water to the cascade at the SAME rate that water was supplied to them. Perhaps that rate was not sufficient to produce truly impressive results. Perhaps, when fed into the width of that cascade, it only produced a relatively small flow of water. Karl probably wanted something far more impressive, a veritable raging torrent of water that would roar and splash its way down the cascade and, like Niagra Falls over here on the other side of the "pond", fill the air with refreshing "negative ions" and microscopic mist droplets to create dazzling rainbows at noon.
He might have realized that the only way to create such an dazzling effect CONSTANTLY would be to pump as much as possible of the water arriving at the bottom of the cascade right back up again to the lakes that supplied it and that would require some VERY serious pumping equipment. Yes, steam boats are nice, but do they really offer a major advantage over sail boats when it comes to moving cargo about? I think Karl really hoped Bessler would help him realize his dream of creating the 8th wonder of this world through the use of a series of fuelless OB PM gravity wheel driven water pumps. The count must have been very disappointed when he realized that was not meant to be.
Here is an interesting fact.
DeleteThe average shower head in the US runs at approximately 5 gallons/minute. Assuming you take a 10 minute shower, you use 50 gallons of water. Water weighs approximately 8.35 lb/gallon, so that 10 minute shower used 417.5 pounds of water. I'm not sure at what rate Bessler's wheel could lift 70lbs, but you have to wonder if it could even keep up with the water demands to run a single shower.
Karl wasn't that optimistic about the cascade, I'm sure.
ReplyDeleteYes, Karl must have been somewhat frustrated by the entire situation. There he was rich, famous, and powerful, yet he could not create an impressive cascade that ran continuously.
DeleteI'm not sure how those four supply lakes at the top of the cascade were filled, that could have been done from local streams or even from runoff after a rain storm. Karl probably had some sort of gates installed in the lakes so that, when someone important was visiting him, he could have his servants run up the hill to the top of the cascade and then open the gates on one lake after another to create an impressive rush of water for most of the day until all four lakes were completely drained. Then the show would be over and, after the gates were closed again, it might take several days for streams supplying the lakes to fill them up again.
How much nicer it would have been if there could have been a series of Bessler wheel powered pumping stations hidden in the surronding forest that could pump water from the bottom to the top of the cascade at a rate of, say, ten thousand gallons per minute. THAT volume of water would certainly have been impressive as it splashed its way down from one step to another in the cascade. And it would all be done without the noise and stink of steam engine powered pumps! Indeed, Karl would even have been able to control the rate of flow or bring it to a complete halt for maintenance purposes whenever he so chose.
TG wrote: "BUT, if it [the "right track" approach] is NOT completed by someone, then this mystery [the Bessler wheel mystery] will REMAIN a mystery FOREVER!"
ReplyDeleteI wrote: "I could not disagree with you more! You are wrong."
TG wrote: "Well, there is, most highly likely, only ONE design that Bessler found and used and, consequently, there can only be ONE path or "right track" that leads to it."
Bessler wrote (AP - pg 352): "Note: The Draschwitz machine did not create a similar noise because it worked on quite different principles."
This is a further example of your apophenia, your continued insistence to misinterpret the clues and mold them to your theory.
Why do you suppose it is that you are the ONLY one to "see" all those clues in the DT drawings?
"Why do you suppose it is that you are the ONLY one to "see" all those clues in the DT drawings?"
DeleteHmmm...let me see now. Maybe because I've spent hundreds of HOURS studying them while others have spent, maybe, a few minutes if that!
Just because YOU are "blind" to the rich abundance of DT portrait clues does NOT mean that everyone else is!
Well lets see, who among us believe the portraits contain clues "by Bessler"?
DeleteAnybody?
After reading TGs analysis of the first protrait clues, I do! I think hes right and that those symbolds in the pictures were meant to provide info about the wheels inner mechanisms.
DeleteAll you guys posting Anony-mousely shouldn't , really .
ReplyDelete"Anony-mice" tend to be attracted by the "tasty cheese" of RELEVANT discussions. They are generally coming here from other blogs and sites because they are NOT getting that cheese there. They dare not use the same usernames here that they do on those other blogs and sites because, if they did, then it would then be openly known how really abysmally bored to tears they are with those and how desperate they are for relevant information regarding Bessler's wheels! Remaining "Anony-mice" protects them from that embarrassment.
DeleteSo, perhaps we should feel sorry for them and just get used to letting them squeek and scurry about as they may. Like trolls, they will, generally, contribute little, if anything, of relevant value, but, at least, they are not as obnoxious as your average troll.
sounds like the two biggest losers have bonded
Delete...AND banned from BW for obnoxious behavior.
Delete"sounds like the two biggest losers have bonded"
DeleteYes, so nice to see that you Anonymice are bonding. But, then again mice do travel in packs, don't they? LOL!
The testing of my current "Contact AFTER 3:00" model wheel is just beginning and I'm already beginning to encounter serious difficulties!
ReplyDeleteMainly, the problem continues to be the spring constants that I am using on my model's primary springs. It seems that, in order to achieve an "early" in the 45 degree increment of drum rotation Bessler effect, I have to give them a k value MUCH higher than 1.00000 lbs/in (corresponding to 16 lbs/in. in the full size Merseburg wheel). But, when I do that, the pivots of the weighted levers traveling from the 6:00 to 7:30 drum positions don't arrive at 7:30 with their levers vertically oriented and that then "pulls" the CoM of all of the model's 8 weights right over to the "punctum quietus" so that the wheel has no net torque. If, on the other hand, I make the model wheel's primary springs' k values less than 1.00000 lbs/in., then the lever pivots do arrive at 7:30 in a vertical orientation, BUT there is NO Bessler Effect taking place at any time during the 45 degree increment of drum rotation. And, as I mentioned before, I am obliged to insert gravity activated latches into the design to support the wheel's upper half weighted levers which is something I'd rather NOT do if at all possible.
This is a real dilemma and, potentially, a FATAL one if I can not find a way around it. But, I'm not worried too much because I've encountered such seemingly insurmountable obstacles before and in EVERY case the DT portrate clues, once PROPERLY interpreted, have gotten me past the road block and this time won't be any different. Such obstacles mean it's time to dramatically increase one's study of the portraits.
Speaking (writing!) of the DT portrait clues, my Bessler "eyeglasses" had a sudden increase in resolving power earlier today and I now realize that my previous interpretation of the "Screw Barrel Microscope Clue" was COMPLETELY WRONG!
That "NB" that one arrives at by extending a vertical line downward along the microscope's optical axis has NOTHING whatsoever to do with the ACTUAL k values of the primary springs Bessler used in his Merseburg wheel. But, its correct interpretation DOES involve dividing the symbol into the Roman numerals for "4" and the Arabic numeral for "3".
Rather than providing information about the primary springs' constant or k value, that particular clue was Bessler's way of letting the reverse engineering mobilist know that CONTACT between a weight and its rim stop occurred somewhere between the drum's 3:00 and 4:00 positions! Exactly where I do not know yet, but this new interpretation has assured me that, indeed, my current "Contact AFTER 3:00" design is correct and has finally gotten me BACK on the "right track" again and heading in the right direction.
Now, all I have to do is find out where the damn clue that describes the k values of the Merseburg wheel's primary springs is hidden in the portraits. I suspect that it's in the second portrait somewhere, but I'm going to have to dig like a gopher to find it!
Bessler NEVER gave anything away for free...either during his life or NOW!
"... I'm already beginning to encounter serious difficulties!"
DeleteWhat a surprise.
So TG, how much power do you think the wheel will generate? I suspect that if anyone knows exactly what to expect, it would be you. This will help in knowing what its future applications may be?
Delete"What a surprise."
DeleteNOT a surprise for me. I've had to overcome one difficult obstacle after another from the beginning of my work years ago with the portrait clues to the present. The inherent difficulties of those clues guarantees that only 1 in 1,000 mobilists will ever get as far as I have come and, even when that point is reached, final success STILL depends upon getting VERY lucky. It's no game for armchair philosophers, abyssmally bored Anon "refugees" from other blogs and sites in search of "entertainment", or those that think they'll read one of Bessler's books and have it all solved in a week, maybe two at the most!
"So TG, how much power do you think the wheel will generate? I suspect that if anyone knows exactly what to expect, it would be you. This will help in knowing what its future applications may be?"
If you are referring to MY 4:1 scale model of one of the one-directional "sub wheels" that drove the Merseburg wheel, then I can only give an approximation of its power output. Since my reduced scale model wheel contains 1 ounce lead weights instead of 4 lb weights, its total weight mass is only 1/64 that of the Merseburg wheel. ALL distances through which the model's weights move are also 1/4 those of the full size Merseburg wheel. That means that for my model wheel the power output at ANY rotation rate will be about (1/64) x (1/4) = 1/256th that of the full size Merseburg wheel's one-directional sub wheel at that same rotation rate.
If the FULL size Merseburg wheel was, say, capable of outputting 12.5 watts as it turned at 20 rpms and operated some device that Bessler had attached to it, then my model wheel, when also turning at 20 rpms, would only be able to output about (12.5 watts) x (1/256) = 0.0488 watts. 48.8 milliwatts is just about enough power to overcome bearing and air drag to allow the 36 inch diameter model wheel to gradually accelerate to a high velocity (probably around 80 to 90 rpm's). This model wheel is NOT intended to power your car or home, but, rather, just to show how Bessler's basic OB PM gravity wheel design worked.
My 4:1 scale model computer wheel is, basically, identical to the prototype wheel that Bessler constructed and found success with at the House of Richters in early 1712. It's a good place to start for the most serious of active mobilists who would like to take a crack at eventually constructing a FULL sized replica of Bessler's Merseburg wheel.
Thanks John,for removing the perverts.
ReplyDeleteNo problemo!
ReplyDeleteJC
PART I:
ReplyDeleteVERY "good" news to report!
I've just completed another "marathon" session with the two DT portraits and it looks like I've found THE particular clue that governs the primary spring constants used on the weighted levers inside of Bessler's wheels. Even more importantly, this EXTREMELY difficult to find AND interpret clue even gives the correct amount of initial STRETCH that the primary springs must have as they place constant tension upon an unloaded lever that is up against its radial member stop and aligned with the radial member.
From prior testing of my virtual "Contact AFTER 3:00" wheel design, I found myself, figuratively speaking, to be "on the horns of a dilemma" (ouch!) in which I could EITHER have primary springs with k values LOW enough so that they allowed weighted levers arriving at the drum's 7:30 position to be vertical there, but which would NOT then allow the upper half of the drum's weighted levers to hold their starting orientations without the use of a gravity activated latch. OR, I could have primary springs with k values HIGH enough to maintain the orientations of the drum's upper half weighted levers, but which would NOT then permit weighted levers arriving at 7:30 to be vertical which is a "MUST HAVE" situation necessary in order to maximize the OB of the CoM on the drum's descending side of the design's eight 1 ounce lead weights.
I tried MANY different k values and NONE of them allowed BOTH of these situations to SIMULTANEOUSLY exist; that is, for weighted levers to arrive at 7:30 vertically while ALSO maintaining upper half weighted levers in their starting orientations WITHOUT the need for latches. In fact, it looked like an impossible trap from which to escape.
That annoying dilemma is now "history" with the new information that I have just obtained from this most difficult of DT portrait clues to find and interpret. I now have a k value AND and an initial stretch distance for the primary springs that allows BOTH the weighted levers arriving at 7:30 to be vertical AND which also maintains the upper half of the drum's weighted levers in their required orientations WITHOUT the need for latches!
PART II:
ReplyDeleteThe problem was that, all along, I had been ASSUMING that the 6 inch long (unstretched) primary springs used in Bessler's wheels were stretched EXACTLY 1 inch when they were holding the unloaded levers up against their radial drum support member stops (and this assumption was NOT based on any of the DT portrait clues...shame on ME!). I had originally thought that this 1 inch initial stretch distance was "reasonable" and, if it was off a bit, then it would not really make much difference as far as the operation of a wheel was concerned. WRONG! That initial stretch distance is CRITICAL to the operation of the wheels!!!
Well, so far, I've only done a few quick static tests and one preliminary motor assisted test using the new primary spring parameters, but, have seen enough to get me excited. The ultimate proof of this clue's validity will, however, only come with further testing to see if, indeed, it will produce an "early" in the 45 degree increment of drum rotation Bessler Effect while ALSO keeping the CoM of my model wheel's weights located on the descending side of the drum.
IF this new DT portrait clue is valid, then it IS a MAJOR breakthrough for me with my ongoing research. I suspect that Bessler would not have gone to the trouble of encrypting this particular clue into the DT portraits unless it was, in fact, CRITICAL to finally replicating one of his wheels.
I consider the existence of this clue to be further proof that the unloaded levers inside of Bessler's wheels were ALWAYS under tension from the primary springs attached to them. It was this same constant tension that was responsible for the loud cracking sound that was produced with one of the unloaded levers slipped out of Bessler hand and then violently slapped against its radial member's stop during the reloading of the Merseburg wheel's weights after that wheel had been translocated during its official examination !
I think I'm a bit closer to the end of that "right track" now...maybe I could even legitimately say that I'm now 99.999% of the way there!
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