Monday, 6 March 2017

Johann Bessler's three possible outcomes.

Johann Bessler spent an intense and lengthy period of time searching for the solution to a perpetual motion machine.  Having suceeded in his self-appointed task he then spent an equal amount of time trying to sell the secret for 100,000 thalers.  His options for obtaining such a large sum were extremely limited; only rulers or princes of kingdoms had the necessary finances.  

He describes early on how he was told that a perpetual motion device was worth its weight in gold, or words to that effect.  Clearly, despite his strong religious convictions he wanted fame and fortune and he went all out to get it, via his chosen route - a perpetual motion machine.

There were three possible outcomes to his search for the solution to perpetual motion.  The first outcome; his search ended in success and he sold the secret for 100,000 Thaler.  That didn't happen. Secondly, he succeeded in finding the secret but failed to sell it.  That is the outcome we all know, and which we hope to correct in order to achieve his desired ending, if post humously.  But the third outcome involves him spending his entire life searching for the elusive secret and never finding it.

What might his life have been like in those circumstances?  Actually he had several options open to him.  Herr Weise, his schoolmaster, had tried to educate many of his pupils for positions within the establishment, and we know that Bessler was a star pupil in which case perhaps his prospects were good for a position at court, or within the maintence of large organisations such as Kassel, as blacksmith, surveyor, armourer or instrument maker - he had the skills. Or he could have continued as an organ maker or a medical man, even if not entitled to call himself a Doctor, or even found work as a watchmaker. His options seem almost limitless compared to most who had his upbringing.  We know he had an entrepreneurial ability, so his chosen course seems almost suicidal given the reception his claims had.

But he never wavered from his determined course, despite numerous setbacks, he seems to have been obsessed with finding the secret. Such a preoccupation or fixation is easily understood by we fellow researchers, but hopefully we do not exclude all external stimuli to the degree he did.  We are required to work, to earn a living and provide for our families to some extent, if possible.  This limits the time we can spend in our chosen field of research, but Bessler states that the chief reason he succeeded when all before had failed, was for the very simple reason that he had no family and no income other than that required to feed, clothe himself and fund his activities.  He was therefore able to devote evey working hour to finding the secret of perpetual motion.

This brings me to another aspect of our research.  Much is made of the marvellous ability of simulation software to permit the testing of various designs.  Yes I agree it can be a great time and expense saver, but only if you have the complete design available to input. One of the greatest benefits for me has been the occasional 'eureka' moment when, in mid-assembly of a particular mechanism, I suddenly see an alternative which looks more hopeful than the current design, and I either complete the assembly I'm working on before returning to the new avenue of promise to test my new revelation, or sometimes I forgo completion of the current assembly and go straight to the modified version.

I'm sure many will say that obviously the new avenue of design did not fulfill its promise and therefore such revelations are not worth exxperiencing, but I disagree.  One of those periodic revelations were exactly what Bessler experienced and many of us who insist that hands-on building is the only way to achieve success know exactly what I mean.

One more thing; producing a sim of a working wheel will have absolutely no benefit in convincing the vast numbers of sceptics in accepting the claim to success.  Neither will producing a video of a working wheel.  The only thing that will convince is the precise description of all the parts with explanations of how and why they work ...plus a full explanation of the actual concept; the reason why it does not conflict with the physical laws.  Once that information is published and enough people test the theory and explanation to prove the claims, then and only then will the concept be accepted and become incorporated in the world of science.

JC




120 comments:

  1. Hi John,
    In the nicest way possible was PLMKRN or myself anywhere near your next principle?
    And my next boring quotation is...
    Do you think it's possible that you have got your facts wrong and bessler actually pushed he one way wheel to get it moving?
    Kind regards
    Uneqk.

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    Replies
    1. Hi Uneqk, yes youbeach had elements right! No, you have asked this before, and my answer is the same. The one way wheels were in a state of imbalance and always began to spin spontaneously, as you would expect under those circumstances.

      JC

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    2. To Uneqk
      I´m not familiar with your possible setup, but do you have also some type of - existing runner?
      Secondly, I must admit and confirm here that one directional wheel was and is self starting!

      PLMKRN

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    3. Hi PLMKRN,
      I have a mechanical device that rotates all by itself once given a little push. I actually told john on he's blog two years ago (25th February 2015). At the time I said it would be revealed within a couple of months, but I was advised at the time not to reveal it.
      I had many teething problems, but the main principle hasn't changed.
      I honestly was hoping that John or someone could come up with a working wheel that didn't need a push to start, but I really believe it's impossible. If
      Orffyreus Bessler made a wheel that genuinely turned then I am convinced that it needed a push start. I believe that if someone ever made an apparatus that turned with a little push, people would compare it to he's then a debate would run to Infinity arguing whether it's what Orffyreus Bessler created all those years ago.
      Is it simple? Well yes once you know how it works.
      Kind regards
      Uneqk.

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    4. Hi Uneqk

      Very good that you also have some type of runner. Strange that I have missed this information here.

      I know exactly how you feel. There was given lot of advices to me also, mostly to shut up about this thing. But there was also some positive replays.

      Do your setup have also connections to some MT drawings and also to AP? I mean more like pendulum setup with measurescales, connecting points, angles, ....? Have you found them?

      All the best

      PLMKRN

      Delete
    5. Hi PLMKRN,
      I never followed Orffyreus Bessler, I only know of him through the internet and John's blog.
      Most clues that get mentioned make sense, but only because I'll got something to compare them with. The machine only runs one way, but its quite unique in the sense that I can trick you into believing it starts spontaneously, but in fact in needs a push. You could watch in run for 5 or 10 minutes, and when asked how it works you would probably describe it completely wrong.
      I think John deserves a gold medal for he's time that he has put into bessler, but i also think ken at times made a load of sense, and i think its sad that he's now moved on.

      Kind regards
      Uneqk

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    6. As far as I can make out, Bessler's initial wheels were self starting... What you have come up with could be a different type of Bessler's two way wheel...Tell me how many weights your machine carries..

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    7. I agree with you on Ken...but, most times he gets carried away from the right track...And never listens... You see one can't always be right..All the time..

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    8. Hi Suresh,
      Original 8 but I now run off 12 it's much smoother, but the principle hasn't changed.

      Delete
    9. I think you must show it on YouTube and see the reaction... Your current wheel configuration could be different from Bessler's...12 weights sounds odd and I don't know how you could accommodate somany...If you feel that you have achieved BW you must go ahead and make announcement so that you don't lose the credit...

      Delete
    10. Hi Suresh,
      It's nearly 2mts in size which is quite comfortable to carry the weights.
      There are already people looking into it, so it won't actually be seen until some lose ends are tied up.

      Delete
    11. Great...But still you can explain to all of us about it's working without ofcourse giving away the finer details...You seem to be working on it from a very long time...Yet loose ends exists...Can it perform work?... Does it makes noise?...Have u used springs?... How heavy is each weight?...You see there are so many such details you can share without endangering your interests...If you have really achieved then it is a great news... Worth sharing...If it is not self starting then it isn't a BW... What are the loose ends???...maybe, we could throw CV some light... Anyway, follow your insights whatever...Best luck..

      Delete
  2. John, what you've said about the time somebody is able to spent on finding the secret, I agree. If you can think like Bessler and consecrate yourself so meticulous to this cause, then after years, why success shouldn't occur maybe!?
    As for the circumstances of my life I see a realistic chance to find the secret. My life is quite simple, there's no own family, no partnership, nothing that eats up too much time. Practically every day I can work on this, if I want. And I'm frugal in many aspects. With an age of 34, living at Besslers birthplace and the diagnosis of Asperger's syndrome, I hope to be the one ;-)
    At least, it's a passion to devote myself to something I'm convinced of. Who knows, when the crunch comes, perhaps I would almost die for it.

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    Replies
    1. Wow, S.O.P.M., you live at Bessler's birthplace? Good luck and keep me informed!

      JC

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    2. Many thanks! I'm from Leipzig (Saxony). At least it's the state and as I remember, Bessler also visited Leipzig.

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  3. What does worry me is that many many many people over the ages until today also have ample time and minimal distractions to find Bessler's answer to PM, if that were the only requirement to eventual success. Bessler was not unique in that requirement. It worries me because it could mean that he faked it simply because no one else has been able to find an answer in physics or by example in nature to show the way.

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    Replies
    1. When you try to find in complex environment something extraordinary, but you can not find anything. Then this "can´t find", can not be evidence or proof, that searched thing is impossible or there is nothing!
      PLMKRN

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    2. It looks Bessler story is so bizarre due to the personality of Bessler. There are so many things pointing out fraud therefore for 300 years everyone assumed he was a fraud. However, wide spread of information about Bessler's wheel is quite new, thanks to John. John puts very good arguments against the fraud argument. Now it seems, by learning about this man and his wheels, we see that something is really odd, we cannot just say it was a hoax. Moreover, just thinking that it was a hoax due to science says so is extremely arrogant way of looking at this subject, and, this thinking is just opposite of what science is....

      BS

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  4. Due to lack of some basic criteria success evades... Like for example the swinging...It has to occur in such a way that by the time a weight lands at the descending point the following weight must be ready for the plunge after having completed its Climb...For all the weights to play this act out without clashing inside proper spacing is another important factor... Overriding all this is the size and shape of the active internal parts that have to be placed in their appropriate slots to perform seamlessly...To get all this right is one big problem...No further mysteries... I mean no faking involved... Bessler didn't have to fake...He happened to get all the above just right...

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  5. The very subject and meaning of PM has got to do with it, in fact....PM means continuos output without input...But, BW gets input by various ways and from various sources...The mainstream science does not give much thought to this...Also, the PM chasers are not able to convince anyone on this... because it requires proof in the way of working model...And, this is extremely difficult again because there is only way (one design) of doing it...and, this design is so simple but very evasive...

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  6. I am a keen follower of yours. Say perpetual motion is possible, say it has been done can you please create a post analyzing what the outcome would be. The ramifications of such a machine on the world? How would it impact our lives. What comes after?

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    Replies
    1. Again the very term PM is not correct with respect to BW...BW is not a PM though it appears to be one...It requires external force...And, the ramifications is difficult to predict...BW may or may not make a sensation...I think so..

      Delete
  7. Fraud is out of the question because powering a wheel from some exotic force would have been an even greater miraculous task than Perpetual motion itself!

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  8. Hi Suresh,
    Lose ends are not the machine, I'm actually in talks looking at what's the best approach regarding its future.
    At this moment im in two minds what to do or say.
    PLMKRN ask if I had a runner, which I answered him honestly,
    At the moment I have someone in the print who wants to write an article about it, so im reluctant to say much about the inner workings.
    The reason I question John about Orffyreus wheel regarding starting spontaneously is the fact that I believe this will answer he's question?

    Kind regards
    Uneqk

    Ps. The last thing I intended to do was open up a can of worms.

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  9. That is OK...But, I too still think Bessler's initial wheels were self starting...Yours is something different...Good luck

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  10. I think the paradox can be answered quite simply. A one-way wheel with a small imbalance weight attached will self start in certain positions where there is surplus torque in one direction (Bessler's were tied off in this position) - this is in lieu of a physical push start (light touch)required for a mass balanced two-way wheel. If any wheel can self sustain motion and accelerate then regardless of whether it is balanced requiring a gentle push or unbalanced starting thru small imbalance weight then it will have a surplus of momentum and KE each revolution. This will be enough to allow it to accelerate and enough to overcome the imbalance weights negative torque impact used for self starting.

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  11. Matter still not clear.... Giving a push to start and starting on own impulse are two different factors...It is akin to a light bulb being switched on by a person and getting automatically switched on by itself... Manual and automatic are two different things...With a difference... And, in BW it matters a lot...The very basic design will have to be different in both cases...They maybe called to be working on the same principle but requiring a different construction approach...I mean a different approach other than the one adopted by Bessler..

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  12. The appearance of an actual working device will have mixed reactions for sure. The same forces that tried to stop him will befall the Revelation again. Only this time, it could be a matter of National Security and whisked away and put under lock and key. A few things we can expect will be the skepticism of the engineers, who for the most part have been educated beyond their intelligence. If its not in my books then its not worth investigating. Engineers are usually extremely bright and dedicated folks that can improve life, but their ability to be creative and Think outside the box is a well known fact. There are a few that do not fit this mold but most do. Then there will be those who see the benefit to the planet and will try and control its uses for gain. There will also be those who see the Massive financial gain that will come from those who embrace it and put it to work. The list goes on and on, but..... the bottom line is does it work, and how much work can it do for me and most of all, how much does it cost? I believe it can be built extremely complex as the power generated goes up, but it can also be built very simple as well. So that with a few carefully selected sticks and rocks and a skilled set of hands one will be able to make them everywhere. Does not matter who gets control over the technology it will be a game changer for sure. The world is run through and Oil Based economy and anything that threatens that business will be at risk. People will loose their jobs but many new ones will be created. But we won't be burning up our planet anymore. This is really a Big event. But it will not happen overnight and if 10,000 companies started building a home unit 24 hours a day, we could never meet the demand.......... never meet the demand. It is all good, and it will happen and I am joyful that I will be here to see it

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    Replies
    1. Most of engineers don't know about these wheels Gravittea. I learned about Bessler 6-7 years a go, God knows how I really don't remember... You are dead right after tens of years of education and seeing that the textbook information and simulations are very accurate for building real working systems and devices, science turns into some kind of dogma. You beleive in most of the science stuff without questioning so much...And about PM, if you add years of frauds, hoaxes, of course no engineer will beleive in this naturally. There is huuuge history of liars...
      But, everyone (including the most clever men of that era) who witnessed the machine beleived in it. I trust that information. No engineer will look at this aspect which is not a techincal point of view. It is just about trust...

      BS


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  13. Not only trust...It is having an unbiased opinion...An open mind...A fresh look into...Out of the box thinking... Creative Outlook... Original approach... Natural thought...Honest effort...Detailed probe... Thorough analysis...pure curiosity...And likewise...That contribute to such fundamental discoveries and inventions... These days we find people only specialize in a particular field... experts in their own fields...called specialists..When they are approached for solution of a different subject they are unable to address the same and refer the matter to a different expert...But Bessler was an all-rounder...A genius infact...A legend in his own time...With a vision...A longingfor natural cause...To really bring about improvement in the society... Selfless attitude...And, a natural healer...With medical knowledge...And skills in various fields... Genuine intentions..With a big dream ofcourse...

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    Replies
    1. Well said Suresh

      BS

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  14. There are many innovations and formulas that are accepted today as part of progress in society even though their secrets are not known or understood.
    They stand and are accepted by us purely by virtue of their valuable benefits.
    It therefore follows that Perpetual motion power will be welcomed by industry by virtue of these benefits even though the mechanics is not understood or kept secret, just like the secret formula for Coke.

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  15. I want to repeat my point by the way. I know this is John's blog not a forum, it is not a good place for repeating own ideas again and again; but Karl's comment is not a random comment. He was a very clever man. I think he conciously or subconciously pointed out a toy of that era. I beleive the main mechanism we are searching for should lie in one of the toys in the toy page.

    I purchased a couple of Jacob's ladder toy. It is my prime suspect :)

    BS

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  16. We can hope to find a Clue in the Yin Yang sign but as far as Jacob's ladder is concerned... I fail to understand anything...As Ken had pointed, we could find a clue or two in the portraits...And some good Clues in MT drawings....But, the poem and eye witnesses account carry the maximum clues...

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    Replies
    1. no ken said dozens of clues inthe two portraits but did not reveal them.

      Delete
    2. He revealed one....The lever's shape...

      Delete
  17. Things here appear to be holding, there being no sign yet of any K-B re-infestation.

    To-date . . . CERTIFIED as-such.

    J.M.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. J-M troll.

      Delete
    2. And yourself, Anonymous, without a handle, without a face?

      Without these, YOU are the one not real.

      ALL anonymous are hiding cowards.

      Delete
    3. Ha! You did or did not like that Trevor? I can't tell which it was.

      Regards,

      J.

      Delete
    4. A troll is not an anonymous poster.
      Defineiton of troll from wikipedia "In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal, on-topic discussion,[3] often for the troll's amusement."

      Delete
    5. We are well familiar with what such are.

      Anonymous or not, you have described what you are and do, whichever one you might be.

      Also, your definition repetition describes what KB himself was and did consistently, even after multiple pleas and warnings from J.C. as issued. Finally, blessedly, that nightmare came to it's tardy end. (Is yours ever to??? We'll never know, will we?)

      Come forward. Identify yourself. Reveal to us your visage.

      Until and unless you DO, my charge stands, at least in your case of the ones that hide behind curtains in fear lest some one might catch a glimpse of whatever you might be.

      Your sorts do not exist, and appear always as lacking credence. Get lost.

      Delete
    6. James Miller you have never produced anything of any value to this forum or www.besslerwheel.com, other than your fancy pants talk you must think makes you sound smarter than everyone else. It is a shame real trolls like you run away the people who actually produce and talk about it.

      Delete
    7. Ed, why hide in the shadows? Your trade-mark greasy disparagement technique "your fancy pants talk you must think" (oh really, must I?) is famously known.

      Typically Y-O-U.

      Various have pegged yourself as being a destructive, acerbic and cutting, non-contributing needling dark force, over at BWF. Stay away from here. Keep your poison for over there. They have become addicted to it, and obviously like it.

      You are worse even that KB as you are a proved back-stabbing ingrate, just as your twisted buddy down in Tasmania is too.

      As I said before, get lost, loser.

      Delete
  18. Uneqk, hoping to hear more about your reveal. The planet really needs this

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  19. Well then you are out of luck because there are plenty of signs that he has nothing. The biggest being he thinks Ken made loads of sense and he misses him. How sweet!

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  20. Hi Gravittea,
    I would love to let you into the principle of how it works, which by the way is not a Perpetual motion machine. Things are moving at my end and it will be revealed in the next coming months, if not weeks.
    Also this is johns blog so it will be revealed through other channels.
    Kind regards
    Uneqk.

    @ Ignoramus - whoops Anonymous, I think you under estimated Ken, Ken may have rattled on a bit at times but he also mentioned a load of things that clearly made sense.

    "Sorry John"

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    Replies
    1. Uneqk - - - you enlightened us thus: "@ Ignoramus - whoops Anonymous, I think you under estimated Ken, Ken may have rattled on a bit at times but he also mentioned a load of things that clearly made sense."

      Interesting.

      Since you seem so very taken with him and his ways, you may follow him and his potent intellect here: http://cosmicvault.tripod.com/

      Please, do forgive me if you will, for disagreeing? I think "Ken" was well estimated, and found not AT ALL estimable by rather many. (Well, even Satan himself has his admirers, so I hear.)

      Although I cannot say, and would not if I knew, if forced to make it my best guess would be that our saintly-patient host and masterful editor, J.C., is likely giddy with delight to now have his blog back!

      Of course "I reserve the right to be wrong." (Jim_Mich) and surely could be. (Contrary to popular rumorous opinion I am not perfect, as certainly many are.)

      In due-course perhaps he will come to miss him just as you do but, somehow I think not.

      Delete
    2. Might be time for me to start posting again.
      I've got LOTS to reveal!

      Delete
    3. bring it on dude!!!

      Delete
    4. Kenneth Behrendt is back!

      (You are one vile cockroach dimensioned piece of twisted work, Behrendt. Trash-is-as-trash-does. You don't like that? Then SUE me in open court, you impudent scumk where we'll open you up in public for a needed live autopsy of that sort. Then, all will perceive finally just what makes you tick. What a marvelous, rare spectacle that would be.)

      Was I the only one to notice that, when Technoguy disappeared some while back (this being a matter of re-searchable record here) KB reappeared? Anyone remember that?

      Many posters here are relatively new. I am not, and so DO!

      And now that he is gone with relative peace having been restored supposedly, Technoguy reappears suddenly as above, threatening to provide us with more of his approbation-addicted, silly incognito self.

      Only sad desperation for such approval could possibly serve to explain such aberrant behavior, so I suggest.

      It should have become obvious to all with brains-still with which to ponder facts, that he IS some form or other of insane.

      Also, it too being a matter of record, was the fact that Technoguy TIPPED who he was actually by trying to sell the earlier appearing KB's cracked-pot theory, of matter proposed as being changeable to energy slowly (as in an atomic-level reaction to gravity and acceleration) this serving to explain, ostensibly, for the presence of any excess wheel motivating energy.

      This same nonsense he was also attempting to sell over at BWF, when he was driven-out by drum-beat for it, just as here recently.

      John, I am sorry to have to drive forward the obvious but, you/we are being played by hidden posting individuals disguised as the various most confusing Anonymous, and now by KB also in disguise once again, as Technoguy!

      I respectfully suggest that this is not fair to all generally, and in particular not to yourself.

      Chaos often is only slightly removed from freedom, and KB definitely is a sewing part of that first, being driven by swirling witch's brews of cross compulsion unknown to himself. (The mercury poisoning he endured, could answer for much of his clueless, grasping madness.)

      Now that the good work's been done, and the needed trick banishment accomplished, let's keep him gone. How about it?

      (Even IF all of that, he still could appear in alternate guise selling is marvelous intelligence. If I am to ever operate my own blog or forum, I will have greatly benefited by having learned valuable lessons from experience had here. That's one other good thing, no doubt.)

      [Did I forget the kitchen sink? That next time.]

      Delete
    5. I honestly don't know about this Ken you refer to, but I am heavily involved in mass/energy conversion as the source of power for the Bessler Wheel. So much, in fact, that I'm finishing rewrite of a book I am soon to release on the subject. After many simulations, I'm almost ready to release what I know.
      This Ken guy appears to be just a coincidence.

      Delete
    6. Technoguy (KB) you are a disgusting psycho. Your trade-mark clueless indifference gives you away. (Rat Ed's does too. Him next.)

      Delete
  21. I agree with Uneqk... The problem with Ken is he had no control over his imagination...He gets too carried away... Not giving a damn...The " I know everything" syndrome...He wouldn't know where to stop...He wouldn't listen deeply to others point of view... Even though he doesn't have the complete design he thinks he has...Over enthusiastic...Self aggrandizement...Jack of all trades but master of none...Lives in fantasy world...But did make sense sometimes...

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    1. he said he only have working sim for complete wheel he got from the dt pictures of bessler and wants othrs to build it. i dont think hes type that gives lies.

      boris

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    2. I agree Boris...He is not the type that lies not he is the clever type....But a working SIM is no guarantee that it will produce a working model... The main fault with him is he always thinks he has got the original Bessler design...

      Delete
    3. Ditto here, all of the above . . .

      Delete
  22. Hey, the guy says he has had a working wheel for 2 years. Not hearing many folks making that claim. The soul of the universe will give him his reward, if he is telling the truth, but if not, it will also issue its own ramifications that are just too many to list. I sincerely hope that he has figured it out and cannot for the life of me figure out why it has take two years to get things in order to make a disclosure.

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  23. It is not a perpetual motion machine...Requires a push to start...Carries 12 weights...Does not seem to be the Bessler's design either...Then what could it be?... Anyway, let him get things in order...In the meanwhile, we still have a lot to carry on... Bessler's mystery is still out there for solving...

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  24. Into the enemy camp (this one here is becoming that slowly but surely to this writer, as the raw impudence factor ever-increases) I just threw this little bomblet to see what reaction, if any:
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    To your present knowledge, does Noether accommodate anywhere for a possible directional-dependent translational asymmetry's appearance . . . 'just in case'?
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    They are a group of physicists discussing Noether's Theorem. If I am afforded a response, I shall report it dutifully to all of my good and kindly friends here. (Excepting of course, for the various anonymous non-existants.)

    Any here that do not know what Noether's Theorem is and why it is important, I am sure that my good and warm friend VIBRATOR will explain it left-handily.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi James,
      Has for good old ken I know him no more than your good self, however I'm probably lying, owning to the fact that rather than turn to Google for any information, just ask Ken, because your going to get and answer whether you want one or not.
      I believe he genuinely thinks he's solved besslers wheel, and at the moment he's hyper. He's probably sitting at home alone writing he's book, the only real communication he has is John's blog, he's harmless and just wants to be involved.
      No one's forced to read what he writes, don't misunderstand me, he does my brain at times, but I do think he's quite knowledgeable.
      I wish my biggest problem was Ken.
      (Good luck Ken).

      Moving on...
      Noether's Theorem.
      Ken wasn't about so I googled it,
      Very interesting, will have to go over it a few times before giving my own opinion.

      Kind regards.

      Delete
    2. Hello Uneqk,

      Interesting observations, those. Thanks for them.

      Sure, he is a noisy fount of knowledge but, what he did with it all practically drove John batty, and various of others of us as well.

      Upon every single blog page he posted GIGANTIC blocks of screed, most all being just variations on old self-same tired themes, and this madness went on for years.

      As you many have noticed, unlike your kindly disposed self, I am not so patient nor forgiving. You see, I am quite sure that he, KB, is consciously aware of the anxiety he creates in others or, as put in words-alternate: he is willing and witting and that means if so, of positive mal-intent. This pattern I observed was one consistent throughout. Does this not make sense?

      As for the interesting matter of Noether's Theorem, I would recommend to you the poster VIBRATOR for a really good explanation.

      To myself this one has always seemed deeply knowledgeable about physics.

      My question to the group of chatting physicists that I mentioned, is a KEY one. I hope I am to have an answer. If so, I'll share it.

      Kind Regards to yourself.

      Delete
    3. Hi James,
      You mentioned Noether's Theorem,
      It quite amazing how people that I trust have seen it motion, yet give different explanations of how they believe it works.

      The apparatus is just a mechanical piece of engineering that carries it's own body weight, it's physically impossible to move on its own, its simply lifeless, until you give it a little push...
      Then it burst into action.

      So the answer to your question, depends on how one see's it.
      I know how it works, but that would be telling.

      All will be resume soon, then you will understand why it hasn't been released yet.
      Kind regards
      Uneqk


      Delete
    4. Greetings Uneqk,

      What you have written seems not unreasonable to me.

      My own grasp of the meaning of Noether's Theorem is at best tenuous but briefly I can state, according to my amateur understanding of it, is as follows: For every symmetry found in Nature a conserved energy quantity will be also, and vice-versa. This leads to the realization that from such a symmetry one cannot get back out of it any more than was put-in.

      As VIBRATOR has made clear variously at places in the past here-and-there, the trick is to find an asymmetry that is functional mechanically. If done, with such a device, then one can, depending upon direction of rotation (there cannot be more than just two, obviously) input one quantity (parcel) of energy and resultantly end-up with another, one being larger than that input, and the other a lesser. When added, the greater and lesser, these two then add precisely to what was input for BOTH directions, and therefor (thereby) preserving conservation of energy.

      Although this would be in our idealized scenario an accomplished actual mechanical asymmetry, the problem for the energy conservation mandate is that we could THEN CHOOSE to rotate the thing in the direction outputting more energy than that input, which would be tantamount to the productions of something from nothing.

      If realized and certified as acting in such an aberrant way, than this would GO TO WEIRD FAST! Bessler, however, I am sure would not be surprised in the least, as he would simply conclude (I think) that it was the act of The Creator or some equivalent thing. Well, such a creation of the tangible as come from nothing (and ostensibly nowhere, and here VIBRATOR might be of considerable help) would indeed appear as it if had been the result of the action of a Divine Will.

      This thinking is just a simple work in-progress and "I reserve the right to be wrong" - jim_mich

      All The Best

      James

      Delete
  25. I believe the evidence that Bessler’s wheel consisted of two parts (an overbalanced wheel and a prime mover) is irrefutable. He alludes to two parts in MT11, showing an overbalanced wheel with an inner mechanism. In MT13 he shows another form of an overbalanced wheel and goes on to state that it would be good for running if there was someone (or something) to lift the weights at the top. In MT15 he shows yet another form of an overbalanced wheel and went as far to say what is not shown is the prime mover. Also, 0ystein has been nice enough to share some details he has uncovered with his
    decoding research of AP.

    It seems like everyone should stop looking at the big OB picture, and concentrate on the idea of what the prime mover is - a weight and lever mechanism that is balanced predominantly but produces pulses of force when rotated.

    Just my 2 cents. z

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anon 11 March 2017 at 18:32

      I like your approach. Your post wont get much attention here because everyone has their own ideas and agendas and neither appears to be in line with their failed logic and aspirations. I would say try bouncing your idea at besslerwheel but they are as equally unintelligent.

      Delete
  26. Is it possible that Bessler used spiral springs in each of his will designs?

    ReplyDelete
  27. Technoguy leaves, Ken appears. Ken disappears, Technoguy reappears. You can't tell me this isn't a coincidence.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Right on the money you are!

      Delete
    2. that anon above claiming to be "Technoguy" is bogus and you all been had. check out the actual "technoguy" and his posts are much differnet. also i never bought the rumor that kb was tg or vice versa. well at least the stunt jerked JM's chain as it was intended to. now what does he have left to rant about?

      Delete
    3. So, let's review: one of you joined with a fake handle (illegal according to the rules here), so as to be enabled to pull my chain for fun, or retribution or chastizement? Ha!(Did you post other falsities too?)

      A rocket scientist you are not.

      By pulling such a stunt, you labor hard to reinforce my argument that Anonymous should NEVER EVER be allowed to operate from their places of hiding. (Rats and cockroaches do this; good humans do not.)

      To do-so is the beginning of potential dread and chaos even, to those that do identify themselves (or at least maintain a handle so they might be be known, imaged or not) who are then left utterly at the mercy of such punking cowards as yourself.

      Does it make you feel G-O-O-D inside to be one, youth of the World?

      Come forward, child coward. Identify yourself, child coward.

      (Since we are well into living the inglorious Era of The Death of Shame, you will likely not be much affected by being called that, for it is meaningless to the likes of yourself and your like-fellows, possessing of no honor whatever, nor any sense for the need for it. Welcome to Hell, all.)

      Also, every single thing that I wrote before, punked or not, stands.

      Delete
    4. Calm down guys! lets not get hysterical, we all know who's who so we won't have to put up with this very much longer. The working wheel is soon to be revealed and we'll all be put out of our misery.

      Delete
    5. just a few more days now, right Trevor?

      Delete
  28. Bessler was a watchmaker and would have had an intimate understanding of the properties of spring steel and its applications, so I think its a yes, he could have used coiled spring, but alas we will never really know. The division of the thought process into the out of balance condition prime mover and the the action of movement is a real possibility. The ability of the primer mover activity to accomplish the impetus for the movement would be incredibly complex.

    ReplyDelete
  29. The reason that I asked about spiral springs is because, I didn't see any drawings of gravity wheels using them. So I designed a wheel using just 3 weights with spiral springs and it appears, well on paper anyway, that it might work.

    I'm not a genius, but might I be on the right path?

    ReplyDelete
  30. I was hoping to generate discussion with my mass/energy proofs of perpetual motion, but I see many are just not ready for it. The book is almost done. Perhaps wait until finished? I am sure many will be interested.
    I can understand completely how this Ken guy felt now. I sympathize with him.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Well Technoguy/Ken, the fact that you are pushing Ken's highly speculative mass/energy claptrap, and pushing your/Ken's book confirms you and he are the same person and I may take the same action as before if I'm pressed.

      JC

      Delete
    2. Actually, it does not "confirm" that "Technoguy" and Ken are the same person because the real past "technoguy" did not have a google account and anyone can now post here pretending to be him. Those losers, however, can not pretend to be the genuine Ken because he does have a Google account.

      Delete
  31. Certified trolls strategy: A working wheel might be coming out soon so all of the loser/lowlifes on here need to leave and be gone !
    Will certified troll be on sky news for being so dedicated !

    ReplyDelete
  32. Hey good morning John!

    I have a couple of questions for you. I've seen a few of Besler's drawings and he's quoted on some of them and he uses the name (storks bill). Is that a clue as to how his gravity wheels work?

    Also I asked a question about using spiral springs, not sure if that will make a difference inside a gravity wheel. But, another question I have is, will a gravity wheel have to have one we move closer to the center of the wheel and another move farther away from the center of the wheel in order for the wheel to rotate?

    And the reason why I ask, is I have or I came up with a design that allows more weight to be put on one side of the wheel without moving one weight closer to the center and another weight closer to the rim of the wheel.

    Also, just one last thing. It really appears like there is a lot of heat building up in the kitchen on this forum. Why are people on this forum getting angry with one another?

    I'm only on this forum to ask questions and I hope my questions don't start any heated argument. I too would like to see this mystery solved and surely someone on this forum wherever they are at in the world, will come up with a working design and finally put this mystery to rest.

    You know, in track race, you have several people running toward a goal and only one person usually wins the race. But if all of us are running (on this forum together side-by-side) all of us can cross the finish line at the same time, and we all can be winners!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I will allow myself to answer a question here. No, the distance of a weight to the wheel's center isn't a reason alone that leads to rotation. The mass distribution around the circumference is important however. How much weight at a specific time you have in a porton of the wheel.

      Delete
  33. I believe the common goal of everyone here, is to get this thing working, and put into use. So, if one of us does succeed, and I believe that we will, I for one...... will be the best cheerleader of getting it into the market. If enough of us are cheering for the success of this, it will be heard, especially with the social media systems that are in place today. The sooner the better as far as i'm concerned. This race is for the survival of the planet.
    GO TEAM !

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Here here Gravittea. This is why I am so frustrated and disappointed with 0ystien. If indeed he has known the solution for the past 10 years, and knowingly kept it to himself, then I would like to see charges brought on him for the countless victims that have suffered from lack of heat or possibly have perished. This is a blatant disregard for humanity.

      Delete
  34. Bessler always talked about a sudden rise of the weight. This gives me an idea. There is Kirchhoff vs Faraday's Law debate in electrical circuits. Kirchhoff law depends on conservation of energy in a loop; all potential summation must be zero in the loop. But when you apply an external magnetic field to the loop, Kirchhoff's law breaks apart and you can obtain a net potential. Because magnetic field is not conservative. Of course, you have to spend energy to generate that field, hence conservation of energy for the closed system (magnetic field generation+loop) holds everytime. However, in my humble opinion, everyone on this forum is right about gravity. Gravity is definitely, without no doubt, external to the wheel. There may be some physical process of this kind for the wheel. May be, a sudden force results in net energy gain. Just a biiig may be of course. This is just a hypothesis.

    BS

    ReplyDelete
  35. By the way, I forgot to mention, what happens in electrical circuit is also a transient. It happens in a very short amount of time.

    BS

    ReplyDelete
  36. There is a lot of mystery surrounding the axle as well. On his first wheel he let his friends screw a bolt in and the wheel took... I think that means there was a preload spring inside the axle provided the action to move the primary movers that were on the perimeter being attacked by gravity. Thoughts ?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Don't think so... Maybe, the bolt was meant for braking...The axle might have had a inner axle.. That's a possibility...For tapping the wheel's energy...The outer axle may have been used for carrying excess unwanted weight of the wheel structure...I could be wrong here... pure speculation...

      Delete
    2. On second thoughts, the bolt could be for locking...

      Delete
  37. I think just the use of Levers alone explains the sudden increase in energy due to the resultant leverage...It is very elemental that a little effort is amplified manifold by a lever...I don't know what else you are referring...No other physical process is going on inside... Weights at levers' end have magical effects...They produce all the tork that is needed...The inertia and CF help maintain this act...We just have to properly design the lever-weight systems and arrange them accordingly to get the PM effect...No other mysterical process is involved...It is just that so far none of us has figured this out...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. ". . . mysterical . . ." - Suresh Kumar 13 March 2017 at 13:03

      This serves to demonstrate that every day some new thing is presented to be learned of! I've lived for more than just a few years now, but never had I encountered "mysterical" before.

      I Googled for this word and it inquired back at to whether I did or did not mean "mystical" instead. No!

      This definition I found for it finally:

      "Top Definition: Mysterical. Something that is both mysterious, yet hysterically funny all at the very same time." - the UrbanDictionary.com

      So, it is new, being a combining of hysterical with mystical, and is slang. Not sure I'll ever need it but, thanks anyhow, Suresh Kumar.

      Delete
  38. Is John still around?

    I haven't heard back from him. I thought he would have made a comment by now.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. He was, just as he is. You missed his KEY comment (a warning) from 12 March 2017 at 12:48 above. It bears repeating, I think. It was as follows:

      "Well Technoguy/Ken, the fact that you are pushing Ken's highly speculative mass/energy claptrap, and pushing your/Ken's book confirms you and he are the same person and I may take the same action as before if I'm pressed.

      JC"

      Delete
    2. dont forget a reply someone made to it which was:

      Actually, it does not "confirm" that "Technoguy" and Ken are the same person because the real past "technoguy" did not have a google account and anyone can now post here pretending to be him. Those losers, however, can not pretend to be the genuine Ken because he does have a Google account.

      i think any one posting as Technoguy here should have it deleted immediately since they are troll. as for Ken he provided much food for thought about besslers wheels. I hope he comes back.

      Delete
    3. Anonymous14 March 2017 at 01:35

      'I hope he comes back ......'

      I don't know him personally, but maybe if you ask this Ken guy nicely, he might return!

      Delete
  39. Stork' bill is the lever's shape...And yes, it is of utmost importance that one weight moves closer to Axle and another farther till circumference in a gravity wheel... People are angry because of mainly three reasons... Due to misguiding others... Due to boring others...And, due to dominating the blog... Spiral springs or any spring can be used to Just pull the lever but not for energy storage...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thank you so much! I'm glad someone finally responded to me. I was almost determined to have a conversation with my self😁 Anyway, can we post pictures or drawings on this forum?

      Delete
    2. Sorry for my lack of response Perpetualman, I was caught.by surprise by the number of comments. Storks bill is what the Germans of that time called scissor jacks except that you need a series of them like you see in an "extending shaving mirror".

      Put that in google and note the series of Xs levers which expand and retract something, in this case a mirror.

      JC

      Delete
    3. A "scissor jack" or "stork's bill" linkage exchanges force for distance - nothing more and nothing less. There is nothing magical about it. Sure you can employ it in a wheel, but it is not the cause, reason, or source of the pulsing force you search for.

      Delete
  40. Pls refer previous blog and you can see some graphics...

    ReplyDelete
  41. OMG I can't stop laughing every time I read John criticizing Trevor on BW about knowing the solution but never having anything to show for it, when every topic on this blog is loaded with claims and promises by John and absolutely nothing to show for it. For the longest time he had the gall to include a little coded message at the end of each post that was supposed to include the secret principle. In fact I sometimes wonder if John and Trevor are actually the same person. Keep us laughing.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It wan't my intention to make you laugh, anon, and I don't think you are laughing really, you actually sound very angry.

      As an anon, you could be Ken or Trevor, but it don't think so. I'm often advised to either ignore or delete all anon postings or else simply prevent their publication, but I prefer to let anyone post in case they have something interesting to say.

      My objection to Trevor is as I said, he has produced nothing to permit consideration. I have currently six websites offering information and speculation which I have worked on over the years. The code which I had the gall to include on my blog, in code, will be revealed soon.

      JC

      Delete
    2. Ok you have me there, and no I am not Ken or Trevor, just another PMer.

      Delete
  42. A little more time will tell!
    At least Ken did not disparage my contributions even though they were only in text form.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I agree with Trevor... Every contribution from any quarter should be duely regarded... Trevor, by the way, is one of our stalwarts... Unforgettable submissions...I wish him all success... Sometimes, Ken's tactics is not appreciable...He should pay due respects to the owner of this blog...At all times...Let us all forget and forgive everyone and everything and have a good time...This is a very good blog with a promising future...

      Delete
    2. As I've said before, both yourself and Ken have always responded to all manner of criticisms in the politest of fashion, and for that I commend you.

      JC

      Delete
  43. Bessler stated springs were in at least one of his wheels (but NOT wound as in a clockwork mech)and conspiciously avoided much mention or illustration of them afterwards.. I personally think with all the references like: shooting, twanging, bow, sear, snatch, etc. in his writings of the wheel, they are used to get the pulse/temp. accel. (over gravity rate?)/'the push over the top' or similar function, adding nothing but trading/delaying or timing the prime mover. Regards
    Jon

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. References to Shooting, twanging, bow, sear, snatch, etc, need not necessarily mean use of Springs... Bessler could be just describing the swing....

      Delete
  44. John, can I ask, have you used Besslers list of Bible references at all in your current design, or just the clues you have identified in the image/s? - Many Thanks - A.N.Other

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. No, I think they are part of a code within chapter 55 of Apologia Poetica. My thinking is that this code is textual and therefore needs complete deciphering before it will reveal its message.

      JC

      Delete
  45. How do I up load a drawing on this forum?

    ReplyDelete
  46. I think the upload facility rights rests with the blog administrator..

    ReplyDelete
  47. Dear Mr. Administrator (John), may I have your permission to upload a drawing to this forum?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Perpetualman, I'm sorry but there is no faclity to upload drawings to the blog, not even by me. I can upload images when I publish an initial blog, but the comments facility which we all use does not alow for uploading images.

      If you have a serious need to publish an image I might consider doing so as part of a new blog, but you would need to send it to me first otherwise I wuldn't be able to do it. Also I would have to retain the right not to publish it for any reason I might think is necessary. It isn't that I have any desire to censor input from others, its just that the drawing you might send me might conflict with my own work or perhaps I might regard it as 'old hat' so to speak, or just not interesting, (although I'msure it would be!

      JC

      Delete
  48. Sounds good. I'll send it to your email address. Also, if it does conflict with your own work and you decide not to put it on a new forum, will you email me back and let me know?

    ReplyDelete

The Legend of Bessler's Wheel and my latest Update

I'm putting the brief account of Johann Bessler's Wheel back up for a short time because I am concentrating on writing (rewriting!)...