For the last twenty-five years I have been publicly maintaining that Johann Bessler really did invent what used to be known as a Perpetual Motion machine. Before I even wrote my Bessler biography, ‘Perpetual Motion; An Ancient Mystery Solved?’, I had already satisfied myself that he was genuine by studying the available evidence. Because the events took place more than 300 years ago this evidence took the form of a huge number of documents, some by Bessler, others by witnesses, newspaper reports and letters.
But surely such machines are impossible? Scientists, teachers, historians have all ruled out any chance that perpetual motion machines might be possible. Yes they have, but there are two things to bear in mind. The definition of what constitutes a perpetual motion (PM) machine has altered since 1847 and even given today’s version there are ways to avoid its implications .... and complementary to this is the apparently conflicting evidence that they ARE possible.
I’m not going to discuss the definitions of PM because it’s been covered numerous times both here and on the Besslerwheel forum, but I think it’s worth taking another look at the strong circumstantial evidence.
We should examine the reasons why and how Bessler provided the specific evidence which was designed to prove that his machine was genuine. Several demonstrations were suggested by the famous scientist and polymath, Gottfried Leibniz, a man of equal intellect to Sir Isaac Newton, his contemporary. Leibniz had considerable knowledge in the field of mechanics and designed a built his mechanical calculator, plus his interests included mathematics, logic, mining religion and history to mention just a few. He had been able to study the machine on two occasions and even though he was unable to state categorically that it was a perpetual motion machine, he was convinced that it was a remarkable invention and too valuable to be ignored. There are many letters from Leibniz to some of his correspondents discussing the wheel and how it might have worked.
The first piece of evidence which on its own could be argued as being definitively and unarguably positive, was the insistence by Karl the Landgrave of Hesse that he be permitted to examine the interior of Bessler’s machine before allowing him to demonstrate it at his castle Weissenstein in front of expert witnesses. Karl was a highly respected ruler and amateur scientist and a correspondent of Leibniz. He acted as honest broker negotiating between the warring nations of Europe which required absolute probity. But he was also known as a ‘curious gentleman’ which in those days described members of such organisations as the Royal Society who maintained an interest in studying the latest findings in the new subjects in science, and in Karl’s case sponsoring research. He had no interest or need to be involved in anything of a dubious nature.
The other pieces of evidence can be summed up as follows. The final machine or ‘wheel’ as it was called, could turn in either direction, requiring a gentle push in one or other direction from which gentle push it accelerated to its top speed. This should have ruled out any suggestion that it was wound up.
The wheel was demonstrated spinning on one set of bearings, it was then stopped and moved to a second set of bearings a few feet away where it was then given a push in either direction, accelerating again to its top speed. This was designed to allow examiners to check for connections between the axle bearings and the pillars which supported the device. The bearings were left open and it was clear that there was nothing of a suspicious nature present.
The same wheel was attached to a rope passing over a pulley and from thence down several feet to the castle courtyard. It lifted a chest of stones weighing 70 pounds from the courtyard up to the roof, and was then rotated in the opposite direction to lower the chest again.
The wheel was attached to an Archimedes screw to pump water which it demonstrated in action.
Finally Karl the Landgrave ordered Bessler to start his machine spinning. The door to the room was locked and sealed with the Landgrave’s seal and a guard ordered to stand watch outside the door. The wheel ran for a total of 54 days with one stop to inspect that it was still working with no undue wear and tear and restarted. The room had been examined both before and after the demonstration, to check that there were no secret connection to any adjoining rooms. Nothing suspicious was found.
The other recommendation from Leibniz was to arrange for official demonstrations and examinations to be carried out by experts, ministers, professors, and the nobility, and get them to sign a certificate describing what they witnessed. They were encouraged to try to discover any signs of fraud or deception but none were ever discovered.
It is hard to know what else Bessler could have done to prove his machine was genuine. I know that people have suggested some ways the inventor could have cheated, but each of them require the complicit assistance of Karl, or some other person, but frankly such suggestions are clutching at straws.
NB For those who are unfamiliar with the legend of Johann Bessler’s perpetual motion machine, see my previous blog.
https://johncollinsnews.blogspot.com/2021/01/the-legend-of-johann-besslers-perpetual.html
JC
The most striking fact was his persistence and his arrogant certainty that he was right. Why? A scammer would never do that. He would have given up.
ReplyDeleteHe was absolutely convinced that he could teach science a lesson. That he could contribute something to it. Too bad he didn't.
Yes and he never gave up, right up to his death.
DeleteAnother point occurred to me. When Wagner and Borlach visited Bessler when he was ill, his brother Gottfried was persuaded to show them the wheel. If Gottfried was showing them the wheel, and their rope and lever was used to turn it, who was doing the work? Not Bessler, he was ill. If he wasn’t really ill, he would have shown them his wheel and got his brother to do the work of making the wheel spin.
JC
"If Gottfried was showing them the wheel, and their rope and lever was used to turn it, who was doing the work? Not Bessler, he was ill."
DeleteIf you believe his maid's signed affidavit it would have been she, Bessler's wife, and his daughter who were taking turns in an adjoining room to make the Merseburg wheel turn for Wagner and company during their visit. If they did not use the rocking beam setup Borlach proposed, they would have had to have been located in a room either directly over or directly below the room containing the wheel. There would to have been a long metal rod going down or up one of the wheel's vertical supports to catch on the side of an axle pivot to pull on it and rotate the axle and its drum. The up and down motion of that metal rod could have been operated by a single lever that would move the rod only a short distance with a lot of force.
Imo, this is highly unlikely because, if that was how it was done, then when the axle pivots were exposed and examined it would have been obvious that some sort of grooves had been cut into the sides of one of the pivots for that metal rod's end hook to get a grip on. Such grooves were not observed because, if they had been, that would have convinced the official examiners that the wheel was a hoax.
jason
We are talking about the Merseberg two-way wheel here. The one Wagner, Borlach, and Gartner, observed in a private session with Gottfried. Presumably it was stopped and rotated in both directions as for other examinations, as this was supposed to counter objections to clockwork springs which Wagner raised. Additionally a wedge of wood was removed from above the axle stub to see the journals ('U' shaped) that the axle stub nested in. If a rod came down from above there would have been a hole on the wedge to be seen. Also there would be wear marks on the metal axle from the ratcheting action. And some reliable catching mechanism on the axle. And of course this raises questions of how this could be done in both directions by a single up and down rod. So that leaves a possibility that a rod passed beside the axle from below. But still it would have to reach into the wedge (a void) in its travel and this would also be noted imo. Along with a vertical hole in the post for the rod.
DeleteATEOTD Borlach was simply proposing a ratchet type method for turning an axle. You'll note he did not include any detail of that fictitious connection from rod to axle. Because he couldn't explain the detail of how and why it turned both ways with that arrangement ?! It was an ill thought out explanation of convenience, to what he did not understand, imo.
I was also talking about the Merseburg wheel. The maid signed the affidavit about how she helped Bessler fake his Kassel wheel demonstrations, but the same principle could have first been used on the earlier Merseburg wheel. I'm not aware of the axle pivots of the Merseburg wheel being exposed for Wagner and company to examine. With Bessler absent, Gottfried probably would not have allowed them within the guard rails and up close to the wheel.
DeleteUsing a single long metal rod with a hooked end to make a wheel start in either direction is a challenge. It could be done using two metal rods, one inside of each vertical support grabbing onto grooves on opposite sides of the axle pivots. But then how would the maid and Bessler's family members know which metal rod's lever to start working if they didn't know which direction Gottfried had started the drum turning? He would have had to have some way of signaling them what lever to start pumping. The lack of observed grooves on the pivots during official examinations eliminates that possibility though.
Also, after their visit to see the Merseburg wheel Borlach published a picture of a single long metal rod coming down from the room's ceiling and being used like a piston rod to rotate a hidden crank shaped section of an axle pivot inside one of the Merseburg wheel's vertical supports. That could definitely drive the wheel in either direction, but only after someone gave the drum a push in that direction. In that case no signalling would be required.
jason
The maid’s account of how Bessler made her and his daughter turned the wheel was the original spark which started me on this long journey. Turning a twelve foot wheel even without any load, through the three quarter inch bearings, would be impossible. Adding the lifting of a 70 pound chest of stones, no matter how many pulleys were involved, simply exacerbates the problem.
DeleteIt was this thought which started me on my journey as an engineer. I knew at the age of 15 she lied, and I set out to learn more about the possibilities, which confirmed what I suspected originally.
JC
Hmmm...I think I can somewhat agree with jason. If the Merseburg or Kassel wheels were perfectly balanced with their CoG's at the exact center of their axles when they were stationary and their axle pivots were well lubricated, then it might just have been barely possible to use the "metal rod's end barb engaging a pivot's groove method" to get them turning, but ONLY if they had NO outside machinery attached to their axles. That difficult startup would have been easier with someone giving the drum a push to get it rotating.
DeleteMarinus... It is just not persistence... Something extra also counts... To understand this Let's consider this;
ReplyDeleteWhy Bessler could succeed and JC sir couldn't?...
Bessler believed in God... He certainly knew that there is a God... Bessler also believed in the truth in numerology or occult if I am not mistaken... In short, Bessler got into the depth of everything... Whereas, our JC sir would simply dismiss all this without even giving it a thought...
To be a real inventor or a discoverer you have got to be dead serious and not superficial...
Every idea or even a vague clue is important... Can't hastily rule out anything without a deep consideration... Another thing I would like to add is that to succeed in this line before even attempting to build a BW you got to have the core idea in your mind and not go on building whatever occurs in mind... There's no end to it... It should work in mind first and agree with all the clues before you start building the same...
You could be right, Suresh. John has probably failed because he's an atheist! Maybe because of that he's been cursed by God? Also, like you suggest, he's only superficial and not dead serious enough like he would need to be to succeed. He's just not capable of the deep consideration of a core idea needed for success. Maybe he should have quit a long time ago instead of wasting his time trying to do something he's just not able to do and that God would never allow him to do? Thanks for pointing all of that out for us!
DeleteWow, Suresh you do jump to conclusions without due consideration yourself. You wrote, “ Whereas, our JC sir would simply dismiss all this without even giving it a thought...”
DeleteI arrived at my various beliefs after much soul searching and research into both religionS, (note the ‘s’) and numerology, the occult, medieval and ancient coding systems, nothing was omitted in my search for truth. So please don’t keep jumping to conclusions without checking facts Suresh.
Same response applies to anon 18.22 - I don’t know who you are, but I wonder if you are the same person who seems to have problem with me.
JC
John, I think anon 18:22 was just mocking Suresh by pretending to completely agree with his nonsense. I've seen him (I think it was him) use that same method in the past when others here make unfair comments about someone. Anon 18:22 knew Suresh's opinion of you was bs as we all do.
DeleteSuresh,
ReplyDeleteSorry, but that is a lot of BS.
I am an atheist too. There is no God. There's only nature. And nature works in mysterious ways. And one of the mysteries is Bessler's wheel. You can solve it mathematically with physics. But so far no one did it. Yet.
Why JC sir has not solved it by now is indeed very strange. He should have found it long ago. However, I cant think of myriads reasons why not. God, numerology or the occult is not among them.
The simple truth is that Bessler proved that PM is NOT impossible and that he found it where everyone was looking for it. Trying to find an overbalanced wheel did pay off for him.
You just need a simple test. An idea alone is not good enough.
cant should, of course, read can.
DeleteYes I’m an atheist, but that would have nothing to do with winning or losing. If Bessler is the only person in the world to find the solution then does that mean every other person since time began was an atheist? Are you one? Ridiculous!
DeleteJC
Just more of SK's pseudoreligious babblings intended to make him look like he's either got the solution already or the "right stuff" to find the solution while everyone else here does not of course. Bessler only had success because he became obsessed with finding a working design, it was physically possible for such a design to exist, and he stuck with it until he finally did find it while others either gave up, worked too slowly on the problem, or just weren't lucky enough.
DeleteBessler was like a guy in a casino who went from slot machine to slot machine hitting the spin button again and again until a jackpot combination finally lit up on the screen and the bells and whistles sounded. If it wasn't him that discovered a runner then it eventually would have been someone else. But I'm kind of glad it was him because he is a really interesting historical character. I'd love to be able to go back in time and attend one of his public wheel demonstrations.
Bessler, had as a basis, an incredible skill set with his hands and just as important .. his mind. To be able, with the tools and materials of his time to build a watch mechanism, by hand ....still to this day is just mind boggling. My DAD was a watch maker and operated a repair shop for many years of my life. He had a couple of benches in the back of the shop with one helper, Ed. For some unknown reason the intricacies of watches never peeked my interest. Dad was a very accomplished watch maker and was instrumental for setting up the first lab for establishing the velocities of cannon shells at Aberdeen Proving Grounds in Maryland, he later shipped out to the Pacific where he repaired watches among other things as an Ordinance Soldier. I am positive that Bessler's skills as a watchmaker proved valuable as well as his abilities to construct pipe organs, which were the most complicated devices on the planet in his day. My DAD would have just loved this, and even though he ha since passed I ask for his guidance, as well as GOD's, on a regular basis
ReplyDeleteI think people are getting me wrong again as usual... It is not a question of being an atheist... The point was to prove that one should not act in haste in dismissing anything...
ReplyDeleteBy the way, it is too early to rule out the existence Of god...
The simple fact that there cannot be a creation without a creator is good enough to start with... If not God there is something else... Call it the nature... Super consciousness...
But as a true besslerian we got to seriously consider everything... Before ruling things out...
Maybe, it was the discovery of gravity that set Bessler thinking at that time... You don't have to have a watch maker's mind to build a wheel as simple as a BW... It is the spirit behind... maybe, BW isn't that mysterious as it is made out to be... I think that in our race to win we missed noticing the same... Can we term it as being gone astray?... I have a feeling that due to our own ignorance we haven't succeeded... For instance, we aren't sure yet what actually powers BW... If gravity is the enabler then what is that other source that would keep it going?... If gravity is the starter in a self start vehicle what is it in the place of the fuel that is reqd?... Whatever that is it has got to be inexhaustible...
Were great brains like Newton and Einstein non-believers?... I know being a believer or nonbeliever is immaterial... But ruling out things easily is not going to help...
There has to a longing first which is followed up by seeking then only the possibility of finding exists...
Good day...
As the old saying goes...
DeleteYOU CAN LEAD AN ATHEIST TO REASON,
BUT YOU CAN'T MAKE HIM THINK.
Lol
ah! good sport chap! me thinks they forgot other old saying, the fool says in his heart there is no God! because they fool, that why they no figure out bessler wheel! lol!
DeleteMarinus said, "Why JC sir has not solved it by now is indeed very strange." Actually, I have already explained that the lack of an overunity principle is the reason why both John's and Ken's wheels don't work. Bessler stated that as one pound falls a certain height, it raises four pounds over the same height. I think that the force doubling nature of springs might enable overunity to be achieved.
Deletei have a theory...
Deletewhat if bessler made a heat engine that turns with heat being applied,
like the wheel had big oil drums that lit a small fire inside that worked internal machinery to drive the wheel?
nobody would know and it could run for months without stopping.
it seems a good theory,
especially seeing that the wheel stopped in cold weather during the winter,
and was blamed on congealed oil.
thats why the big one at kassel that ran for months had to go slow,
so the wind from the whirring wheel wouldnt blow fast enough to put the flame out
Let's look at the science
Delete>>> E is energy
E=mgh
Energy=Mass x Gravity x Height
The masses in the wheel stay the same
Gravity doesn't change
The wheel remains the same size so height stays the same
Energy stays the same
>>>No overunity???
@Anonymous24 January 2021 at 03:20
DeleteI know what you mean, but I disagree. Bessler discovered overunity, he told us plainly, even if he didn't have the word "overunity" to explain it back in his day. He discovered the very thing which enables perpetual motion in a wheel. That's why they are "perpetual motion structures," or in other words, "overunity mechanisms."
Anon 02.54 I’m not familiar with that saying, and it doesn’t actually make any sense.
DeleteAnon 02.57 either your English is execrable or you don’t check what you’ve written, but it doesn’t make sense either.
JC
Bessler stated that as one pound falls a certain height, it raises four pounds over the same height.
DeleteUn palan peut le faire.
JB
Anon 09:42 wrote "Un palan peut le faire" which in English says "A hoist can do it". He needs to see how it might have been done without using a hoist. Last month Ken B uploaded a short video showing how to make a 4 lb weight rise 4 feet while a 1 lb weight drops 1 foot. His sim uses the energy stored in a long stretched spring to provide most of the energy for the lift. See his video here:
Deletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iB7R2ttYWCw
Clever but if no value in Bessler’s wheel, and as I have explained several times before, that clue is a clever piece of ambiguity revealing the correct information when connected with other clues.
DeleteJC
I think the point Ken B was trying to make with that video was that using springs for counter balancing can make weights do the seemingly impossible. As far was B's wheels were concerned, the counter balancing of weighted levers by springs inside of their drums may have been the secret of how a wheel's weights were able to constantly keep their cog out of balance as the wheel rotated.
DeleteNo, I was being polite, there is no point in making that point, because springs were not essential to the running of the wheel.
DeleteJC
If you are guessing wrong on that then you may never get a runner. There's still that "expanding spring" noise made, accidentally, during the Merseburg wheel translocation that the "no springs" crowd would love to explain away, but it's a pesky little bit of evidence that annoyingly surfaces from time to time in discussions of B's wheel mechanics. Why such a tightly tensioned spring in B's wheel if it was not essential?
DeleteIt could be just a clip to fasten the weight. Nothing more.
DeleteIt's just a matter of keeping your eye on the ball and not getting distracted by things that are not important.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteJohn 3:16 is "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
DeleteMore appropriate for this blog:
Delete"For John so loved the wheel that he gave it all his effort, that whoever believes it's real shall not quit but find eternal motion."
Anonymous and PROUD of it!
SG, I accept your religious beliefs, please allow me mine, however ever abhorrent they may seem to you. I have never pushed my own thoughts about God and see no reason to do so,
DeleteAaPoi, I cannot take offence at your comment, so witty and undoubtedly true! Lol.
JC
When you look at a double pendulum the chaos is clearly visible, it is not eternal, it is normal there are only two moving parts :), https://youtu.be/U39RMUzCjiU
ReplyDeleteI think Bessler did better than two moving pieces and balance became impossible .
The argument of historical authority is Gottfried Leibniz without question. Bessler found a way to make balance impossible :)
You can clearly see that the energy in the double pendulum system is much greater than with the single pendulum. In both systems the mass is the same. The greater energy is caused by the faster (chaotic) movement of the double pendulum.
DeleteIf you can bring order into the chaos, by restricting the movement, you might be able drive a flywheel with it.
I do not want to offend or ridicule religion. If my words are offensive then I hereby apologize because that was not my intention. More than 80% of the world population believes in God so being an atheist puts me into a minority. I don’t want to fight the majority, I want peace.
ReplyDeleteI also don’t believe in numerology, the occult or hidden clues in the Bessler documents. I therefore reject any solution derived with these methods. Unless they are proven with a working model.
MT teaches us that B was looking, just like anyone else in history, for an overbalanced wheel. By doing that he found it. He left us the Toy-page and the hint that you need a “mechanism” that could be derived from that page.
That should be enough to find it. Remember, Bessler had nothing.
I’m with you Marinus, you put it much better than I did.
DeleteJC
ReplyDeleteYOU CAN LEAD AN ATHEIST TO REASON,
BUT YOU CAN'T MAKE HIM THINK.
What I can make out from above quote is;
You can lead a horse to the water,
But you can't force him to drink.
I too feel religion shouldn't be forced on anyone... But, it is all about spirituality... Which can be shared... Numerology and occult sometimes make things easy for us by giving great insight provided we know what to believe and what to ignore...
ReplyDeleteIt is possible Bessler got some intuition from Cosmos suddenly in a flash... This could be true... When your mind is very open good energy descends from the universe...
There is no prescribed way or guidelines to make great inventions and discoveries... sometimes, they happen when our mind is in synch with the universal energies or in an intense state of concentration...
Yes, I agree Bessler left many clues but it depends how we view them... Karl's observation also cannot be ignored... It's simplicity... But there are times we don't interpret the clues correctly and things therefore become complicated...
What boggles me so much is how the secret has been evading us so long... Will we ever see it in our lifetime?... It is so elusive... Some or the other obstacle pops up during every attempt... It would have even evaded Sir Newton and Einstein if they had attempted...
Newton actually drew a design for a perpetual motion wheel of his own that few know about.
DeleteJC sir's birthday falls on 5th February...
ReplyDeleteAnd, as per Celtic astrology, the following prediction or life analysis may be true... Celtic druids came up with this by comparing a particular tree zodiac sign to people born in particular period...
JC sir comes under poplar tree;
Characteristics and personality
Person who was born under the rule of Poplar learns fast and understands quickly. Just like Poplars, people born during the time of their rule are direct and straightforward. They often have artistic talents and a sense for beauty. Most of these people are closely connected with nature and they feel better in rural areas than in towns and cities. It is no exaggeration to say that they understand nature much better than most other people.
They are popular because they are able to see things from different angles and they never really care about money. They are also skilful diplomats in interpersonal relationships. In critical situations, their unbelievable courage may unexpectedly appear and they will start defending their ideas with great vigour and confidence even though they know that they cannot win the argument.
These positive qualities are sometimes balanced by loneliness and a sense of abandonment, because due to their high moral expectations they do not usually have many true friends. This can sometimes lead to anger and bitterness. Even in their love life they are not always happy and their dream of having a big and closely-knitted family hardly ever becomes true. However they can usually hide their dissatisfaction or sadness very well and their closest friends may not even know about what troubles them.
Thank you for that Suresh, I hadn’t heard of Celtic astrology or that it was associated with trees. Like all astrology readings I can see some things which seem accurate but if I look under western astrology readings I’m an Aquarius and perhaps the reading might be different but also partially correct.
DeleteI always ask the same question, how can these astrological readings each apply to one twelfth of the world’s population? On the other hand I know there has been some basic research into the field of professional athletics which has thrown up some surprising statistics. Sprinters tend to be born in the summer months, while long distance runners are statistically more likely to be born in the winter months.
Now whether that has anything to do with astrology is not known at this time.
JC
On one side we have a few short years of subjective proof, littered with claims of fraud, and signs of potentially suspicious activity. On the other side we have hundreds, if not thousands of years with no tangible proof of a running wheel, and to compound matters, scientific laws of nature prohibiting perpetual motion. Faith in god, faith in a savior, and faith in succeeding can be an exceptionally powerful aphrodisiac, and blindfold of reality.
ReplyDeleteAs someone once said "Lack of evidence is not necessarily evidence of lack". Maybe working pm wheels have been invented ever since the wheel was invented about 5 to 6 thousand years ago or even farther back. Maybe one genuine runner comes along every millennium or so. Unfortunately, for one reason or another, it gets lost. Bessler's wheel could just be the most recent one that fortunately we have some credible evidence for. The big question is whether there is only one way of making one or if there several or even many ways.
DeleteBessler Curious
For those of you wanting to contribute to society, to make things better, your time might be better spent working at a soup kitchen or working a second job at Walmart and contributing your earnings to charity.
DeleteFor those of us who are convinced by the evidence that Bessler’s wheel worked, then the slightest chance that we can find the solution is worth all the trouble we encounter in the process. Rather than help out in a soup kitchen, there is a chance that a successful machine could generate cheap clean electricity, thus helping to combat the effects of global warming due to fossil fuel burning. It would mean more to the all the inhabitants of this planet than those in one soup kitchen.
DeleteJC
To the young and those new to trying to solve the Bessler mystery, I am going to be brutally honest here. All your hard work won't amount to jack squat.
ReplyDeleteWhat possible reason would you be visiting this blog?
DeleteJC
@anon 16:46
DeleteYou sound like another unfortunate casualty of the quest for pm: the long time seeker who, having failed repeatedly over the course of years, has concluded that it's all just a colossal waste of time and effort and now feels the need to warn others to keep them from suffering the same fate as you did. You are right, of course, for the vast majority of those on the quest all that will be achieved is most bitter failure. But the hope is that one of them will finally find success and the revolution in free energy generation can finally seriously begin. When that happens, even the burnouts such as yourself may find your interest renewed and then, perhaps, you can rejoin us in a new quest: the one to turn some crude, barely working prototype into a serious source of free electrical power that can help revolutionize life on Earth.
Following on from Marinus's observations about focusing on the toys page etc.
ReplyDelete"MT teaches us that B was looking, just like anyone else in history, for an overbalanced wheel. By doing that he found it. He left us the Toy-page and the hint that you need a “mechanism” that could be derived from that page.
That should be enough to find it. Remember, Bessler had nothing."
Bessler had one task - he wanted to solve PM. There were failed examples before him but nothing to command his full attention away from his own research.
We, on the other hand, have two.
1. Connect the dots that B. left behind, because we are convinced he was truthful .. But, we don't know whether he always forthcoming and accurate because he wanted to protect his secret. What are the dots and what is fly shit analogy ?
2. We want to solve PM.
So we are chasing two mysteries (and dividing our time). We think that both should converge. Our task is actually larger and more complex that B's, because of the legacy he left and our attraction to it. So we have to cover much more ground, spend more time and effort. Or focus on what is important and have less distractions.
"spend more time and effort"... you can spend all your time and all your effort "and ye still not understand"
DeleteAll you need is good amounts of patience and diligence. To cover a lot of ground, and get experience in what does not work to make a runner. So that you might 'see' what will work mechanically for a runner !
ReplyDeleteIf that's not you then step aside and let others get on with it !
AP pg68 :
"I was "perpetually" devising new ideas in secret, and these I would boldly incorporate into yet another new wheel. This one just had to work.....How nicely it stayed put! How much I regretted the time and, especially, the money I'd put into it all! It would have been difficult, in the face of all this, for anyone to pluck up the courage to make new efforts. The net result of it all was sure to be the same as last time. But I doubt if anyone, in any country, has ever had the PATIENCE AND DILIGENCE I showed in my obsessive fancy. While other people were being carefree, I'd be tearing my heart out. I'd discover something wonderful, on which I'd staked everything, only to be heard loudly lamenting, a few days later, at the thought that the years of work had been fruitlessly expended. I'd be overcome by great sorrow, would go to my bedroom full of anguish and weep bitterly, till finally God took pity on me, showed me his love, and blessed with good fortune my ensuing labours. I had a rare dream, which gave me strength, happiness, air and space. For weeks I forgot the outside world and concentrated on my innermost self. Soon I was free of cares and greatly comforted by a new enlightenment. God had sent Joy after sorrow. After barreness, the finest silk was being spun. For I put together the very first device which could spontaneously revolve a little. I saw that I had finally made the RIGHT CHOICE, and why the earlier ones had BEEN WRONG. My heart leapt for joy at the sight of this genuine Mobile."
His experiences could describe everyone here with one exception...we haven't had that "rare dream" yet that puts us on the path to success. Maybe we're not weeping and praying enough? Maybe we're all aging, burning out, and slowly losing enthusiasm? Something's got to change because it can't go on like this much longer. God if you are up there in your 7th Heaven PLEASE have mercy upon us poor mortal pm chasers and send down some sorely needed help to us like you did for Bessler centuries ago! And PLEASE don't tarry, we need it NOW!
DeleteNo need to fret, anon 01:55. Almighty God up in 7th Heaven has heard your pitiful prayer and decided to send His Messiah to aid you in your time of need.
Deletehttps://img.photobucket.com/albums/p403/ken1947/ZZ15_Kens%20Return_zpsbgnm6nl1.jpg
Lol!
DeleteHere's one of his better fakes:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5O5O2dz3Ls
There's a noticeable break in his video at about time 1:42 and what we're seeing after that is his OB pm wheel after he's switched on some power source hidden inside of it. Most likely after the break he closed a switch on one of the unseen sides of that thick blue base that caused a battery powered motor inside of it to start turning. That motor had a small pulley on it that then made a thin rubber belt start going up and down inside one of the metal posts that support the wheel's axle. Those posts aren't solid. They are hollow pipes with just enough space inside for a thin rubber belt to fit in and work.
DeleteAt the top of the posts there are wooden pieces that are attached to each post with set screws and have the ends of the axle passing through them. The wooden pieces have been hollowed out so that the rubber belt can go around the end of the axle. If he stops the wheel from turning, the rubber belt will just slip around the steel axle. If he lets the wheel go, as he did by removing the wooden wedge stop piece at the bottom, then there is still enough friction so the belt can drive the axle. He didn't dare use clear and solid plastic rods to support the axle because that would have immediately exposed it as a fake.
Yes, it's definitely one of his best fakes. Aside from building his fake, he has to pay a lot of attention to concealing its power source. I wonder how many pm noobs see something like this, think it's real, and then waste their time trying to duplicate it?
He's got what's called a "ramp design" there. They all fail because when the rising side weights hit the ramp they have to be supplied with gpe faster than the dropping side weights can supply it. Wheels like this can never turn themselves but we see inventors constantly trying to make them year after year. For an ob wheel to work you need a design where the dropping side weights are always supplying more gpe then the rising side weights need to rise. What's leftover powers your wheel and anything else its running.
DeleteYus .. it's a double lift ramp design, bottom and top ascending side. Nicely made as are all his models.
DeleteHis site is called "Visual Education Project". They are intended to make you think. Instead of having an OB wheel that stands still and then wondering why it doesn't turn (not that interesting) he presents one that does turn. And then you must think about why it should or could turn. And possibly arrive at the conclusion that it has extra concealed energy supplied to it to cause rotation (the faking). Note it turns forcibly almost at constant rpm in an instant. Much as B's. one-way wheels were said to do upon release. All his models are very well made and clever constructions.
yep .. he has his prime mover sorted! We haven't lol.
DeleteI've always felt that his fakes were an insult to pm chasers and actually mocked their failed efforts over the centuries. Everyone is trying to sugar coat his intentions and make it sound like he's trying to "educate" people about pm machines. Maybe he's really just another burned out ex pm chaser and his models and channel are a way he gets even with the subject for having wasted a large part of his life chasing pm? If so, then they are really meant to mock the subject and anyone who is still pursuing it. I'm suspicious of his real motives.
DeleteI have the opposite view. I was tied of the wild-west culture of seeing YT faked wheels presented as true runners. Or experiments that would rock back and forth and stop, though full of good intent. He came along and changed the game. With a skill set able to turn out masterful builds in double quick time. He's literally made hundreds. Now his popular vids earn him add revenue no doubt. Good on him for making it interesting and demonstrating his skills while we wait for a real gravity runner to be invented. We get to see how designs are imagined to turn even if they need a helping hand. Many a failed gravity wheel builder would like one or two of his kitset models on their desks to provide some inspiration and levity from this serious subject.
Delete"Many a failed gravity wheel builder would like one or two of his kitset models on their desks to provide some inspiration and levity from this serious subject."
DeleteJust what I need...a fake pm wheel on my desk to inspire me!
An ordinary pendulum clock is a machine that proves efficiency of more than 100% is possible.
ReplyDeleteAccording to the "laws of physics" no closed system can generate more than the input power. But can you show me at least one closed system on this earth? This means in an opened system you can supply energy X and derive more than X, because of other energy sources.
It is possible to build devices such as Bessler's. Many other self-moving devices obey the same principles of an opened system: they simply utilize other energy sources. Some of these energy sources are known, but not enough.
"An ordinary pendulum clock is a machine that proves efficiency of more than 100% is possible."
DeleteExactly HOW does an ordinary pendulum clock "prove" that?!
Where did you see that clock with efficiency of more than 100%? Bits me.
DeleteA solar panel is one example of closed system.
It would be very helpful to have some understanding of basic physics.
A solar panel is a closed system only so long as you keep it in the dark and don't connect it up to anything. As soon as any light falls on it and it's connected to an external circuit it becomes an open system.
DeleteAbout the pendulum clock: if you've never made one or at least wound, started, stopped one, you won't be able to grasp why. I've seen many people who think they know how things in the world work, but they actually don't. You have to dive into the details of the clock in order to understand why it has more than 100% efficiency. I know you want a blueprint, but I'd better keep it for me. And yes, the explanation is very very simple, based on the knowledge of a 5th grade child. If "basic physics" is your lack of knowledge of what a closed system is, that's something you have to improve.
DeleteThe solar panel is not a closed system at all. As someone said above, it is activated by external forces and affected by external forces (and by the way, it's not only light that takes place).
@Thomas
DeleteNo, it is not anon 16:49's understanding of what a "closed system" is that is wrong...it is YOURS that is! The fact that you have to "keep it for you" when it comes to explaining how an ordinary pendulum clock is more than 100% "efficient" only shows everyone here that you don't know what you are babbling about. If any clock was more than 100% efficient, then it would not require winding up. It could be made to wind itself up and I suspect most 5h grade children know that...unlike YOU.
Ah, the winding. That's what bothers you. Every object that moves has extra energy added than the initial impulse. The clock is losing a lot of energy. This is why it is constantly wound-up.
DeleteIf you understand the principles of the extra energy Bessler is talking about, you will understand why a clock is more than 100% efficient.
Let me give you one more example. Would you buy a car that consumes 50 litres per 100 km? Probably not, but this is what a car would consume if you drive it on 1st gear all the time and you stop every 100 meters for 1 minute.
The efficiency of the car will be utterly low. Why? Because you don't use it the way it should perform its best (if we assume "the best" is the 15-25% efficiency of the internal-combustion engine). Most of the energy becomes heat and is lost.
The same with the clock. The fact is is constantly wound doesn't mean you have to constantly wind it. You are just losing energy. However, there's one major difference between the design of a car engine and a clock. The difference is like the difference between logitudinal and transverse waves. The comparison is quite exact. This is why a clock can be way more efficient while the car engine can only be less than 100%.
The reason most people fail to design a working wheel (or such a device) is because they don't understand the essential difference between a longitudinal and transverse wave. They know what these waves do, but they don't understand the essence. This is why most design a "car engine" and expect it to work, but it doesn't. In order to design a working wheel you have to combine the principles of those waves, not just the principle of one of them.
@Thomas
DeleteAmazing how you can dance around with a lot of irrelevant analogies, but never get down to actually answering anon 15:21's simple question of how, as ONLY you claim, a simple pendulum clock has an efficiency of more than 100%. I agree with anon 02:43. If you actually had a real answer that made sense then you would not be playing evasive word games with everyone here.
No kidding Anon 09:40. Sounds like Thomas is a 5th grader himself, he certainly seems to have the intelligence of one. No pendulum is more that 100% efficiency. Could this be SK in disguise?
DeleteIt isn't me... I never comment anonymously...
DeleteThat's a lie!
Deleteadditional details to support theory...
ReplyDeleteas the wheel turns, the flame always stays upright,
this alternately heated and cooled a hot plate
the marquis of worcester, who built his own wheel,
also invented a means of lifting 4 pounds as one pound fell (sound familiar???)
did bessler copy the marquis???
see original comment below:
i have a theory...
what if bessler made a heat engine that turns with heat being applied,
like the wheel had big oil drums that lit a small fire inside that worked internal machinery to drive the wheel?
nobody would know and it could run for months without stopping.
it seems a good theory,
especially seeing that the wheel stopped in cold weather during the winter,
and was blamed on congealed oil.
thats why the big one at kassel that ran for months had to go slow,
so the wind from the whirring wheel wouldnt blow fast enough to put the flame out
Your internal fire / heat engine explanation for Bessler's wheels would have been impossible to use. The Merseburg and Kassel wheel drums both had cloth sides that were saturated with oil. They would not have allowed enough outside air to enter the interior of these wheels' drums to keep any internal fires burning. Also, what if the internal fire spread and a drum's wooden framework and it caught fire! Months of work would go up in flames in a few minutes. You need to find another explanation that's less of a fire hazard.
DeleteBessler Curious
"especially seeing that the wheel stopped in cold weather during the winter, and was blamed on congealed oil."
ReplyDeleteReference please ?
You can find it mentioned in section XII of Christian Wagner's 1st "Critique" of Bessler's wheels. John has a translation of it here:
Deletehttp://www.theorffyreuscode.com/html/body_wagner_s_first_critique.html
That’s an old link which shouldn’t work! I’ll have delete it some time
DeleteYou’re best going to this one at
http://free-energy.co.uk/html/wagner_critique_1.html
And this one for critique 2 at
http://free-energy.co.uk/html/wagner_s_second_critique.html
JC
John, We haven't heard any from James Miller. James, are you there?
ReplyDeleteMaybe he was another covid-19 casualty?
DeleteI haven’t heard from him for months, I’ll try emailing him. Thanks for the thought. JC
DeleteFor Anon 23Jan. 01:46 : Enjoyed your post on springs ! The use of spring arms in escapements can be seen at: A History of Technology,Vol 3 Fulcrum.org. Scroll way down to page 662.Clock maker Jost Burgi, inventor of the minute hand in clocks ,invented his cross-beat escapement about 1584 while employed by William IV of Hesse Kassel ! Mr. Bessler surely knew of this remarkable use of spring assistance and tucked the idea away for future use.-----R.
ReplyDeleteI couldn't find any images or video of Jost Bürgi's about 1586 cross-beat escapement using the balance springs on it and the reference you gave requires subscribing for hundreds of dollars to access!
DeleteHowever I did find a video of the earlier version of a cross-beat escapement that does not have the balance springs on it. It is just a variation of the verge escapement that uses two foliots rotating in opposite directions. Unlike a standard type of foliot escapement using a long vertically suspended pendulum to move the foliots, a clock with the cross-beat escapement could, IF its power came from a wound up mainspring instead of falling weights, actually run in any orientation relative to the Earth's gravity which would make it ideal for use aboard a ship at sea. See the link below for a short video of a basic cross-beat aka double balance escapement without the balance springs added to it in action.
I agree that Bessler, a clockmaker's apprentice, would have been familiar with escapements like the cross-beat one with the balance springs added by Bürgi and he probably repaired them. It's even possible that they gave him the idea to counter balance certain levers inside his wheels' drums with springs.
jason
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyBOX_PZYM0
@Raford and Jason
DeleteThe cross-beat escapement without the balance springs was used in some early 17th century pendant watches. If someone had $22,000 he didn't know what to do with, he could have bought this one made by Jerg Ernst of Augsburg in the first quarter of the 17th century from an exclusive auction site:
https://antiquorum-swiss-assets.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/images/46/lots/7/7.jpg
Notice the weights at the ends of the balance arms whose swinging motions could be viewed through the clear crystal back of the watch? They are cherubim depicted as the heads of chubby children with wings attached to them so they can fly about and attend to God (but how could they do that without arms and hands?!). Anyway, where have we seen cherubim like that before? They are in the second DT portrait on top of the organ! Maybe it was just a common motif used on organs of Bessler's day though.
@anon 03:53
DeleteBeautiful example of watchmaking craftsmanship. Back then a watchmaker actually MADE all of the parts of a watch by hand and assembled and adjusted them. It probably took months just to make a single timepiece. You don't see anything like that today.
Beautiful timepiece. It's actually what is called an "animated timepiece" because on the back you could see four little angels flying about as that cross beat mechanism worked. The inside movement was brass but I bet all of the outside parts were solid gold. Something like this probably graced the neck of a noble woman. The less wealthy back then told time by using either the position of the Sun or a town clock tower if they had one. It's good to be rich!
DeleteThanks John, I really miss his erudite, witty and funny way of saying things!! Helps dispel the gloom .-----R.
ReplyDeleteOtoh, many here found him to be an annoying troll who they hope won't be coming back. One notable poster here described him as a "nasty verbose a hole" after enduring his tedious and insulting rantings back on the bw forum.
DeleteGot an email from James, he’s alive and kicking! Away from Bessler and PM and busy with other stuff.
DeleteJC
"Away from Bessler and PM and busy with other stuff."
DeleteThank God!
JC Sir, what about Andre Sir?...
ReplyDeleteThank you Suresh, I have just emailed him.
DeleteJC
Thank u sir... In the meanwhile, I am beginning to wonder why some interesting people disappear from such an intoxicating debate happening here...
DeleteThey probably get bored with the lack of progress from year to year and the irrelevant comments that just pile up from blog to blog and never lead to anything real. Most people don't have time to waste on that.
DeleteAndre and his family are fit and well and doing amazing things in his new state of the art energy laboratory. Looking forward to hearing about his new discoveries in the fields of electrochemical, mechanical and electronics.
DeleteJC
Great relief... Thank you sir... This covid thing really is very chaotic... But I fail to understand how a person like Andre sir is able to abandon the BW mystery altogether...
Delete@Suresh Kumar
DeleteProbably 99% of those who get interested in the BW mystery will eventually abandon it altogether probably within a month or two of starting. They all tend to think that they are somehow special and will solve it in at most a few days of drawing wheels in a notebook. They might even quickly put something together confident it will work on the first try. When that does not happen they get frustrated and angry and then express their anger by dropping out. People want instant results today and if they don't get them they take off after something else. Only the most persistent of people will chase after Bessler's wheels for years or decades.
Jason, Go to Startpage.com and put in : A History of Technology vol 3 Fulcrum.org. click on READ at top. Doesn't cost a cent. scroll to p'662. ----R.
ReplyDeleteYour instructions did not work for me. When I follow them I don't see the word "READ" anywhere and when I click on links for the book they all take me to fulcrum.org that wants me to pay to subscribe so I can read the book. Why don't YOU provide us with a link that will take us directly to page 662?
DeleteWHO is the author of this book and WHEN was it published???
DeleteIt’s not free. JC
Delete@ Anon 16:38
DeleteJohn Collins hired an interpreter so he could write the published books (AP, MT, GB, etc.). He is only asking a small amount to help recover costs, why is this an issue for you? If you want a hand out, move to America and become another free loading democrat.
@anon 21:18
DeleteYou need so start reading the comments here carefully so you will actually know what you are talking about. Anon 16:38 was NOT referring to AP, MT, GB, or DT. He was referring to a book that RAFORD recommended to everyone and claimed was FREE to read. John must have tried to find that book, which RAFORD didn't bother to provide an author name and publication date for, and discovered as anon 16:38 did that it was NOT free to read. (Also, the democrats in America recently took control of the US Congress and the White House after winning landslide elections last November. That's because more and more of its citizens are getting fed up with republican party politicians whose only reason for existing is to keep helping the rich suck as much money out of the lives of the middle class as they can while trying to keep as many in the lower class from voting as possible. But things are changing quicker there than they thought they would and the republican party will soon happily be going the way of the dinosaurs!)
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeletePunctuation PLEASE! Otherwise it's just garbled nonsense.
DeleteApparently, when SG found the secret of Bessler's wheels, he lost the ability to properly punctuate sentences! I guess it's a small price to have to pay for that privilege. Maybe the resulting difficult to read and understand word salads he sporadically churns out are part of God's plan to keep him from sharing the big secret with others who are not yet worthy to receive it?
DeleteLast time I checked, congress sets tax policy. You know, the ones that made Biden and his crooked family rich. Don't blame those who take advantage of the laws congress sets. The real proof will be in sleepy Joes actions, not his words. So far we have promises of Covid relief that went to other nations instead of the poor and unemployed. We have him cancelling oil delivery pipelines laying off thousands of fellow union workers. We have him opening the borders to thousands if not millions of illegal aliens that are only coming here for the handouts and health care. Yes he is off to a grand start. In two years the American people will be asked to show their approval. Should he live that long, my guess is he will be relegated back to the minority yet again. And you can expect impeachment to follow immediately as well as investigations into his communist dealings. Yep gonna be fun.
DeleteOh no, just when you thought things couldn’t get any more corrupt, the president’s buddy and hand-picked Treasury Secretary, Janet Yellen, is tied to the hedge fund that bailed out the insiders that lost millions trying to short sale GameStop. Could it be because they gave her over $800,000. Well the common man gets screwed again by promise everything and deliver nothing democrats. Gosh and there’s that Cuomo fellow that put the COVID infected in nursing homes oh my. Well at least the FBI and democratic leadership that put together the fake dosier to frame Trump are true patriots. Yep a great bunch of moral fellows there. If the fake news can keep the stories about the radical left breaking into political and government buildings hushed up, it could be a real winner week for the dems.
Delete@Anon's 19:14 and 20:52. Sounds like you're just spouting more right wing conspiracy bs with no real proof to back it up.
DeleteBiden already has over a million Americans being vaccinated per day and is on track to have 100 million vaccinated in the first 100 days of his administration as he promised to do. He's not opening any borders to millions of illegal aliens. He wants legal immigration like everyone does. He just wants to keep those DACA people, now adults who were brought here as children, from having their lives and families disrupted by being deported back to countries they may only vaguely remember and whose language they don't speak. He has a plan to get them all green cards in three years and in another five years after that to become legal citizens. Biden also wants to find the parents of the hundreds of little kids who were kidnapped from their parents by the Trump controlled border police and actually kept in cages like animals while the youngest were crying for their mothers.
While the "Retrumplicans" in the US Senate took months to agree to give unemployed and desperate Americans only a $600 dollar stimulus check, Biden is going to send every adult making under $75K the other $1,400 they need and there's even talk of sending every American like that $2,000 per month until the economy gets back to normal again which might not happen until the end of this year or even early next year. If Biden does a good job, which so far he certainly looks like he's doing, not only will he be re-elected for a second four year term, unlike Trump, but we should see the control of the democrats in the Congress constantly increase every two years.
Yes, the FBI is a moral agency especially now that they don't have to worry about Trump trying to control them. So far, they've arrested hundreds of the Trump inspire insurrectionists that invaded the US Capitol building back on January 6th looking for Congress people to murder. Most of those yahoos are on their way to begin serving ten year long or longer terms in federal prisons. That is the unfortunate consequence for allowing themselves to be brainwashed by Trump and his delusional right wing enablers. I actually feel a bit sorry for them. They are like the victims of some religious cult leader that are in need of "deprogramming" for them to recover their sanity again.
Sorry folks!! I thought my only link (Startpage.com )would work for you as well. A History of Technology,a 5 volume set , by Dr. Charles Singer, 1957, ( Oxford Univ. Press) is easy to read with many fine drawings.Volume #3 covers the ~years 1500 to 1750. Amazingly, I see Vol #3 is for sale on Amazon for only $ 8.24 !! WOW, A real treasure! ---R.
ReplyDeleteI managed to finally see the illustration, figure 400, of Burgi's cross beat escapement on page 662 of vol. III of his "The History of Technology" which was published in 1957. I found the book on archive.org, but had to join the website to be able to access it. Membership is free, however.
DeleteHis spring enhanced version of the cross beat is basically identical to the one that Jason gave a link to a youtube video of with one major exception. The springs Burgi uses are not spiral or helical ones but just flexible arms with the little weights attached to their ends. The text that describes figure 400 reads:
"The limitations of the verge led him to design his cross-beat escapement (figure 400). In this the pallets are carried by separate arms geared together, allowing a much more delicate adjustment of the angle between their faces, according to the fineness of the teeth on the gearing. The shape of his escape-wheel teeth also allowed finer adjustment than did the ordinary verge. Its action is, in effect, the same as that of a bristle set to make contact with the balance at the moment of pallet-collision; but since the elastic properties of the metallic arm are more constant than those of the bristle, the period of reversal is shorter and independent of setting; the oscillations are thus more symmetrical. Finally, the flexibility of the arms of the cross-beat lessens the wear on the escape-wheel teeth and pallets. This escapement, although used for only a short period, made a real contribution to the exactness of the clock. With the introduction of the pendulum clock the cross-beat was superseded, and the mechanical time-keeper could be widely applied to astronomical observations."
It sounds like Burgi's escapement was at most just a brief improvement in clock accuracy and the pendulum clocks that followed were far more accurate. I don't think it has anything to do with Bessler's wheels, but it does have some resemblance to MT 18.
Bessler Curious
Stephen have those winds blowing off the lake frozen your Love for humanity as well, Probably should head over to Butch McGuires (since 61) and watch all the window displays from Fields in the rafters for more inspiration, Taco Thursday is sure bet to get things heated up
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure if John purposely deleted/censored this post the first time I made it earlier today or if something went wrong with the upload, so I'll give it one more try.
ReplyDeleteI found this very controversial ANTI Green Energy documentary titled "Planet of the Humans" that was produced by Michael Moore in 2019. Moore has been a long time supporter of environmental and liberal causes in all of his previous documentaries, but this documentary caused him to be accused of giving the Anti Green Energy advocates major support. After getting 8.3 million free views on youtube last year, it was suddenly removed. Apparently, the Green Energy industry does not want people watching this film because it exposes the taxpayer funded Green Energy SCAM now being pulled on everyone without them even being aware of what's happening.
The documentary points out that the new Green Energy technologies can actually emit as much green house gases as the fossil fuel technologies that they are supposed to replace and they will have no significant impact on Climate Change! Sites that stream this movie are charging $4 and up to view it. However, I managed to view it for free at the ad supported site below and it was a real eye opener as to what is really going on:
https://lookmovie.io/movies/view/12192654-planet-of-the-humans-2019
Anonymous and PROUD of it!
I definitely deleted your comment because the link you provided led straight into a web site which infected my iPad with two Trojan viruses and I strongly recommend that no one should follow the AaPoi link. I for one will not be visiting it again.
DeleteJC
I'm most sorry to learn of your bad experience, John. I had no problems using the site, but then again my AV program does real time monitoring of all downloads to make sure they're clean and either my software missed those Trojans or they weren't there when I downloaded and viewed the video. I'll do a quick scan of my hard drive right after I upload this comment just to make sure there isn't something there that doesn't belong there. Thanks for letting me know what happened to you. Also, please feel free to delete my post above so no one else will have to risk infection at that site.
DeleteDespite that, I do strongly recommend anyone doing alternative energy research see Michael Moore's documentary, "Planet of the Humans", even if he has to pay to see it on some other site. I think it demonstrates why we desperately need FREE energy technology as soon as possible, like the kind Bessler wheel chasers seek, rather than just the kind of "Green Energy" that the corporations are now selling us and promise will eventually solve Climate Change. That documentary goes into the behind the scenes details that the public is not being told about and which really show how Green Energy is only the latest profit making racket cooked up by the capitalists. I applaud Moore for standing up to tell the truth even though he had a lot of anger dumped on him as a result. That takes courage.
The documentary shows how the Green Energy industry carefully works with environmentalists to get public support for their supposedly "carbon neutral" technology methods and then use that support to get governments to shovel tens of billions of taxpayers' dollars to them. Most of their technologies if used on a large scale could even ADD more carbon to our planet's atmosphere than burning fossil fuels would do to produce the same amount of power and actually make Climate Change worse in the long run! True free energy technology won't do that. Maybe when the world wakes up to that, there will be more support for free energy research instead of the constant put downs we get from the scientific establishment?
I wouldn't recommend this documentary unless I had personally viewed all of it and found it to be well researched as all of Moore's documentaries have been, imo.
Again, sorry for any inconveniences caused you or anyone else who tried to view it on that site.
Anonymous and PROUD of it!
I think I over-reacted it was such a shock. I do have antivirus software on my pc and my iMac but not on my iPad or phone and it hit my iPad. I’ll check out suitable software for the iPad. Sorry for deleting your comment AaPoi.
DeleteJC
No problem, John. You were well justified to do so as a precautionary measure. I just did a complete scan of my own laptop's hard drive and nothing suspicious was found.
DeleteIf someone does not mind paying $3.99 USD to rent the documentary, they can do so from Amazon's Prime Video at this link:
https://www.amazon.com/Planet-Humans-Al-Gore/dp/B08L4PC68H/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=documentary%2C+%22Planet+of+the+Humans%22&qid=1611909219&sr=8-2
They give you 30 days to start watching it and 48 hours to finish watching it once you start watching it.
It's also available on DVD for $15.99 USD from Amazon here:
https://www.amazon.com/Planet-Humans-Al-Gore/dp/B08HTG6HRW/ref=sr_1_7?dchild=1&keywords=documentary%2C+%22Planet+of+the+Humans%22+on+DVD&qid=1611909603&sr=8-7
Anonymous and PROUD of it!
This documentary is back on YouTube
Deletehttps://youtu.be/5x7UgKfSug0
Great! Thanks for that link anon 11:17 because after AAPOI's recommendation, I definitely want to see this one. I'm not worried about any viruses in it because, if it had any, it would have been flagged and removed from youtube by now.
DeleteI agree that current green energy tech is a dead end intended to profit off of people's fears which are mostly stirred up by the liberal media. I think the scientists will soon have working fusion reactors that will supply all of the energy we need for our electric cars and homes and we won't need any fossil fuels, nuclear power plants, solar panels, wind turbines, or "free" energy machines after that. Once we have them they will produce a lot of helium gas as a waste product. What to do with it? I think they'll use it to inflate giant blimps that will take off and fly around the skies day and night. These blimps will be long tubes that will suck in air at the front end and shoot it out the back end for thrust. Inside the blimps will be large versions of the CO2 scrubbers they use on submarines to clean the air which will be powered by solar panels on the outside of the blimps. They will pull the carbon out of the CO2 in our atmosphere and turn it into dust. That will quickly end the climate change problem. When enough carbon dust is collected, a blimp will just fly over the ocean and dump it in there then fly back up to collect more. Plankton will eat up the carbon dust, multiply, and make more oxygen for us to breathe. To get rid of methane in the air we have to permanently seal up abandoned oil wells and get rid of all the farting livestock all over the planet. We will all go back to eating a healthier diet of fruit, vegetables, nuts, berries, but they may be able to grow synthetic lean meat in labs for those that want hamburgers at the fast food restaurants. If we have too many people on the planet then IUDs and birth control pills are the solution to reducing it. I'm optimistic about the future. I think in the year 2050 we'll all be looking back and laughing at the foolishness and fear mongering of all of the doomsday documentaries coming out now. If you watch enough of them you can scare yourself sh*tless in no time.
DeleteHere's a documentary I recently watched on tubitv.com called "Endgame 2050". It deals with what will happen to the Earth and humanity in the next 30 years due to population growth and the problem of feeding everyone. Every week we're adding over one million people to the world's population and they all have to be fed and housed and provided with education, jobs, and health care. The doctors and scientists in this video are calling on everyone especially, in the West, to start making big changes in their lifestyles to avoid certain disaster.
DeleteYou don't have to worry about any viruses in the videos from this site and they also have thousands of other films that are all free to view and you don't need to join. But, joining will save any video you only partly watched so when you return it will automatically play from where you left off.
https://tubitv.com/movies/529320/endgame-2050?start=true
@anon18:51
DeleteThanks for the link. I watched it and it was great and loaded with some scary information. I didn't know that right now the mass of waste plastic like grocery bags we've dumped in our oceans exceeds the mass of the fish down there! That plastic disintegrates into "nano particles" that actually get into a fish's body and even its brain. Most of the seafood humans eat has this plastic nano stuff in it and it's getting into our bodies and brains too!
@anon 15:40
DeleteI agree with most of what you wrote. But, I doubt if the phytoplankton in the ocean would "eat up" tons of carbon dust dumped into the ocean. Those floating colonies of microscopic marine algae do need to take in inorganic nutrients like nitrates, phosphates, and sulfur, but these have to be dissolved in the sea water so they can pass through their cell walls. Carbon dust would be made of particles too large to do that. Any carbon dust dumped in our oceans would just settle to the bottom to form a layer on the ocean floor. It will stay "sequestered" there for a very long time which is a good thing.
About 1/3 of all the CO2 released into the atmosphere is eventually absorbed into sea water and it is carbon in that gas form that the phytoplankton use along with water molecules and UV sunlight to create carbohydrates that they need for their own metabolisms and they also release oxygen gas which land animals need to breathe. In fact about 50% of the oxygen we breathe in are molecules made by phytoplankton in our oceans!
Your idea of giant blimps extracting carbon from the atmosphere sounds plausible to me. But, it's not going to reduce the total amount of carbon if we humans keep replacing it at the same rate by burning fossil fuels to power our world. We need to drastically cut back on their use. This is a job that needs to be done on a global scale. No one nation can do it by itself. I think we'll see this problem discussed more and more in the coming years as our planet's weather patterns become more extreme with the rising atmospheric CO2 and also methane concentrations. The important thing is that the entire world is now aware of the problem and the need to do something effective about it as soon as possible and that the dissidents are becoming fewer in number and less vocal.
jason
I tried calling him on the mobile but his number is down... I tried to contact him on e-mail but no response... I found that there's no updation in his website... tripod...I also visited him on Twitter and found that there is no activity after 2011... He was born in the same year I was born... 1958... he happens to be one of the pioneers in Bessler research...I am greatly worried about Ramesh Kumar Menaria ...
ReplyDeleteMaybe covid 19 killed him off? Current reported deaths in India is 154,000 which many think is way too low for its population of 1.4 billion people and overcrowded cities. The actual number of deaths could be four or five times that or maybe around 700,000...maybe even up to one million!
DeleteI would not describe R.K. Menaria as a pioneer in ‘Bessler research’, more an imagineer than a pioneer! He took everything I wrote and added a lot of gobbledygook obtained from his so-called ‘guru’ to it and wrote 19 or more books all based on the sayings of this ‘guru’, with scarcely a mention of me as the original supplier of p the information which he distorted into something unrecognisable.
DeleteJC
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteYou can't deny that Menaria has (or had if he's now deceased) a real passion for the subject of Bessler and his wheels. That is obvious from his colorful and rambling 2005 website that is probably loaded with the maximum number of gif images one will ever seen on webpages! Is he a pioneer? Hmm...maybe in a way. At a minimum he probably motivated many interested in Bessler to do more in depth research into his life and inventions and then come over to JC's sites to purchase some of his translations of Bessler's written works. Certainly nothing wrong with that.
DeleteMenaria's website is actually a tribute to Deva Ramanada, now deceased, who Menaria believed could actually psychically tell what was going through Bessler's mind at critical times of his life centuries ago ("Deva", btw, is a title of reverence which means "Divine" or "Excellent One" in Hinduism). He is also convinced that Ramanada knew the secret of perpetual motion, which was supposedly known to Indian vedics for thousands of years. Menaria gives hints about that secret throughout his website, but never quite gets exact about it. We see the same thing done HERE blog after blog!
Anyway, if anyone hasn't seen Menaria's website yet, you can find it here:
https://orffyre.tripod.com
AP pg68 : Bessler said .. "I was "perpetually" devising new ideas in secret, and these I would boldly incorporate into yet another new wheel. This one just had to work.....How nicely it stayed put! How much I regretted the time and, especially, the money I'd put into it all! It would have been difficult, in the face of all this, for anyone to pluck up the courage to make new efforts. The net result of it all was sure to be the same as last time. But I doubt if anyone, in any country, has ever had the PATIENCE AND DILIGENCE I showed in my obsessive fancy..
ReplyDelete.. I had a rare dream, which gave me strength, happiness, air and space.. I put together the very first device which could spontaneously revolve a little.
I saw that I had finally made the 'RIGHT CHOICE', and why the earlier ones had 'BEEN WRONG'.."
Bessler took the same well beaten path that we all have followed. And after countless fruitless attempts at PM and a runner he was still trudging on that same path to nowhere. He thought he was being innovative and creative, trying new things, but reflecting back his thinking was stuck in the same old dead-end rut.
When extreme exasperation and melancholy took hold yet again, he then had a rare dream. From that moment on he changed his game plan, and his mind set. He approached the problem of maintaining physical imbalance with an entirely different mechanical solution to all others he had tried in the past (and which shared the same defective DNA lineage).
He knew this mechanical DNA would not lead to inbreeding and extinction. He knew he had made the right choice this time, and why ALL THE OTHERS (his and in history) had been wrong !
That is a seismic shift in mechanical approach and understanding of the problem, IMO. Yet, remains simple to understand and build !
All these guru's, you'd think one of them could tell you what that seismic sea-change was ?!
-f
I think like SoS and others suggested here blogs ago, Bessler eventually realized that his MT13 design had the best chance of becoming a runner. He then eliminated its giant axle pendulum, reduced its number of levers and their attached weights from twelve down to only eight with one every 45 degrees around the drum, and finally added support springs and interconnecting cords between the levers.
DeleteHe had to make many adjustments to its various parts to finally get the wheel to stay out of balance in any orientation and, most importantly, to stay out of balance as the wheel rotated and picked up speed. I think anyone wanting to duplicate Bessler's success has to follow the same path he did. If one does not and pursues some other path, his chance of success will be very low and for most zero chance.
Yes Fletcher, like all gurus they hint that they have secret knowledge, known only to them, but they never divulge anything of use.
DeleteJC
NO guru should ever divulge his secret knowledge. Not doing that helps him maintain an aura of authority and mystery and keeps his followers begging for any little crumb of wisdom from him like a pet dog sitting up and begging for a tasty doggy treat from its master.
DeleteJC was actually doing that for years here as he kept hinting he finally had the secret of B's wheels and would have a runner any day to prove it. He managed to keep everyone here in a prolonged state of anticipation. Many may even have wondered if they should bother continuing their own research since he had assured them that he already had "the" solution to B's wheels! Finally, last year, they could withstand their anguish no longer and pressured him into revealing all.
Result? His "solution" was quickly shown to be just another nonrunner and he to be just as delusional as all the other failed B pm wheel chasers out there had been for the last 300 years. He suddenly lost his aura of having supreme knowledge of B's wheels. Many of his faithful followers were in shock. How could this possibly happen they asked?! But it did happen.
Lesson to be learned from this for future aspiring guru's out there...NEVER reveal your secrets because once you do, if they are valid, then people won't need you anymore or if they are worthless, then they will just write you off as another delusional case!
The successful guru knows how to do a lot of talking without actually saying anything that's too detailed. He always keeps his audience hungry for more which helps keep him the center of their attention. He never allows himself to be put to the test by saying anything someone can successfully prove is false. If that is never done, then his followers will think that maybe he does have superior knowledge and they should continue to collect the precious pearls of wisdom he occasionally gives them.
There’s a difference between myself and professional gurus. I believed in myself and it was my over enthusiasm which led me to proclaim too soon, that I had the answer. But gurus deliberately pretend to have information which they don’t have. It has taken me a long time to learn to resist the inclination to make claims that I know the secret but I can, more or less, restrain myself now. It’s only taken me ‘til the age of 76 to control my enthusiasm! Lol
DeleteJC
"But gurus deliberately pretend to have information which they don’t have."
DeleteI wouldn't be too sure about that. I bet most of them actually do believe that they have been given secret knowledge by some divine being or are on some special mission on planet Earth for those divine beings.
One of the problems with being delusional is that the victim of a delusion is not aware that he is delusional. He thinks he's got the real truth and everyone else is mistaken or lying. Trump and his closest followers actually believe 100% that he won the last campaign for US President even though several recounts of all of the votes show that is not reality. His own people who were involved in securing the integrity of the last election also said there was no widespread fraud committed. Sixty lawsuits his lawyers filed were thrown out of court for lack of any evidence. But, no, he still insists he's the real winner and should be the president of the US now. He will probably go to his grave proclaiming that no matter how much evidence is produced to prove it's not true and those as delusional as him will accept that as the truth.
Anonymous and PROUD of it!
You make a good point AAPoi.
DeleteJC
Anonymous 30 January 2021 at 07:00 said :
ReplyDelete"I think like SoS and others suggested here blogs ago, Bessler eventually realized that his MT13 design had the best chance of becoming a runner. He then eliminated its giant axle pendulum, reduced its number of levers and their attached weights from twelve down to only eight with one every 45 degrees around the drum, and finally added support springs and interconnecting cords between the levers.
He had to make many adjustments to its various parts to finally get the wheel to stay out of balance in any orientation and, most importantly, to stay out of balance as the wheel rotated and picked up speed. I think anyone wanting to duplicate Bessler's success has to follow the same path he did. If one does not and pursues some other path, his chance of success will be very low and for most zero chance."
And here are the dichotomies. If we knew what path B. took to success we would save ourselves time and effort, and anguish, and explore it. But we can't be sure what his sea-change mechanics implementation was or even the direction of it. Many of us think MT13 is very important somehow. We also believe that the Toy's Page (TP) holds valuable information. Therefore MT13 and the TP must compliment and reinforce somehow !
So let's look at your suggestion and see if we can find any commonality. Take MT13 and reduce levers to 8. Remove the artificial horizon roller wheel lifter entirely. Run cord interconnections between the levers. Add support springs between the levers. (Sounds similar to KB's wheel.) Arrange the forces so that imbalance is maintained and the wheel accelerates to runner status (say that quickly).
So we can deduce the cords as they are missing from the TP spinning top (its prime mover). We could interpret the spiral clothing on one of the hammer-men as a coiled spring perhaps. OK we have a link between MT13 and the TP. But still perhaps much water to go under the bridge because we have only overtly used a few suggestive elements from the TP to modify MT13, and there are others. Assuming your deductions are correct or partially correct !
-f
"(Sounds similar to KB's wheel.)"
DeleteActually it sounds exactly like Ken B's wheel to me and I'm sure to a lot of the followers of the never ending search for the secret of Bessler's wheels. The more I look at that video of the sim model of the wheel he put on youtube the more convinced I am that it is Bessler's design because it neatly accounts for all of the clues we generally accept such as having weights at the ends of lever arms, containing springs, using a connectedness principle, being an overbalanced wheel like Bessler said it was, making eights sounds per turn on its descending side as impacts take place there, etc.
Then there was all of that numerology analysis done by SoS indicating the levers had a Y shape to them which is the exact shape of the levers in Ken B's wheel! SoS is a very serious guy when it comes to making his analyses and I take them seriously. What else could Bessler's wheel have been? I think a lot more needs to be done with Ken's design. He published a big book about it and a working sim which is fine, but we need to see confirmation sims of his design by others and, if they hold up, then some actual builds.
I guess waiting a little longer for them is acceptable considering the world's been waiting three centuries for a good solution. I'm feeling very positive about his design and I haven't felt that way in a long time when it comes to Bessler research. To me it looks like the first real progress in decades toward a solution. If it's not then I'd be crushed and probably quit this subject forever as a result.
I will grant that Ken B's wheel design is impressive and I've never seen anything like it before. But, if it is actually Bessler's design and is so "simple", then why did it take 300 years for someone, him, to rediscover it? Shouldn't it have been rediscovered centuries ago when you consider all of the thousands, maybe tens of thousands of inventors who tried to find Bessler's design or any kind of working pm wheel design and failed? How could it even be possible that all of those past pm chasers with all of the work they did could have missed such a simple design? That really puzzles me. Either someone did find it previously and it turned out to be a nonrunner or it somehow was avoided by everyone maybe because it uses springs or has to have its levers connected together? Anyway, I also hope it's the long sought solution. We need something real to come out of all of these years of chasing after Bessler's pm wheels. Maybe this will finally be it.
DeleteI agree with Fletcher... Toys page or drawing 13 has no relevance... It is just another distraction...
ReplyDeleteAnon 06:46 wrote "How could it even be possible that all of those past pm chasers with all of the work they did could have missed such a simple design?"
DeleteIt's actually quite possible. People probably knew about the magnetic properties of lodestone for thousands of years before the ancient Chinese figured out how to make a compass out of it. That compass allowed them to cross the Pacific Ocean to the west coast of the US hundreds of years before European navigators were able to cross such huge bodies of water in their ships. Primitive people knew that warm air rose for thousands of years before someone tried catching it in a light cloth bag to make a hot air balloon so that sustained human flight became possible. History is filled with a lot of examples of simple ideas that took a long time to be turned into something practical.
jason
Sorry SK, you have me wrong .. I actually do think MT13 and TP are intended like a hand and glove i.e. suggestive of mechanical directions to explore. Therefore they do have relevance and are not distractions per se, IMO. I don't necessarily agree with the anon's summary of his deductions about that symbiotic relationship.
ReplyDelete-f
MT 13 and the Toys Page could just be the two most important drawings in MT and they need to be carefully studied, imo. I was amazed at how SoS's numeralogy in past blogs was able to extract so much religious symbolism out of MT 13 like the year and even time of day Jesus was executed as well as the year, month, and time of day that Bessler gave his first pm wheel demo in Gera! There is just too much of that info hidden in MT 13 for it all be a coincidence. Bessler was a very religious man and he wouldn't have loaded MT 13 up with all of that if that drawing was not VERY important in some way.
DeleteI certainly agree that the TOYS page contains useful information, but my personal feeling is that MT13 doesn’t. I may post a blog about the TOYS page with my interpretation.
DeleteJC
MT13 is interesting. What are we looking at?
ReplyDeleteIs part A fixed or a pendulum? If it's supposed to swing than it might be a self-sustaining escapement.
I would describe MT13's relation to the Toy-Page as poor.
Part A of MT13 is actually a lever with a heavy crescent ballast weight at is bottom end and a small wheel B at its top end. The fulcrum of that lever is the wheel's axle on which the lever rides and can rotate around. When the inner arm of a lever hits the side of wheel B and pushes it in one direction, the big crescent shaped ballast weight will then swing in the opposite direction. Bessler said the design had too much "friction" to work. That's really just another way of saying that the net loss of GPE by 11 of the weights during 1/12th of the wheel's 360 degrees of rotation does not exceed the GPE that must be gained by the one lever that wheel B is trying to lift during that same amount of wheel rotation. This is the common problem that turns all OB wheels, EXCEPT the ones Bessler, built into nonrunners.
DeleteI think we should consider MT13 as the last nonrunner Bessler actually constructed before he realized it could be made into a runner with the right modifications. The Toys Page probably contains the information, carefully hidden, of exactly what those modifications were. But without Bessler explaining them to us which he never did, we can't completely decode the modifications in the Toys Page unless we are also constantly working on modifying an MT13 type wheel and painstakingly seeing what does and does not improve its performance. No one, not even SoS, can sit back and completely decode the Toys Page information by just looking at it without also doing a LOT of work in the shop or, for the simmers out there, at the keyboard. But to his credit SoS in a past blog did find some very interesting pieces of info in the Toys Page without any shop work or simming. However, I think he only scratched the surface of everything that's in that odd out of place drawing. Much more research has to be done on it.
Marinus 31 January 2021 at 17:53 said :
ReplyDelete" MT13 is interesting. What are we looking at?
Is part A fixed or a pendulum? If it's supposed to swing then it might be a self-sustaining escapement. "
What we are looking at is the first picture by B., in his MT, of a type of common Bhaskara Wheel. With the exception that he adds a physical method to lift the lever-weights at 12 o'cl ('D'). This lift is imagined by the use of an internal wheel ramp analogue. That being a roller wheel 'B' around which the lever-weight must move and be lifted as 'B' and 'D' come together. The structure 'A' (on which 'B' is located) is an artificial horizon (maintaining its vertical orientation, more or less). Because it is pivoted at the wheel axle it is not of 'fixed' design but has a fulcrum forming a pendulum like structure, able to oscillate slightly providing its crescent mass provides a great ballast righting moment (as a keel does for a yacht). It would have some sort of resonant frequency depending on dimensions and mass etc so perhaps hinting at some escapement potential function. Otherwise B. could have just included a fixed roller-wheel 'B' fixed to the background !
B. comments that it would 'run well' if there was 1. not so much friction .. 2. someone like lightening to continually lift at 'D'.
The truth is that even if there were NO FRICTIONS present (system energy wastage) this design would AT BEST be a 'ZERO SUM' concept. IOW's the torque created (turning moment) on the CCW side by extended lever-weights does not exceed the GPE given at 'D' to each lever in its turn. With no frictions if given a push it could maintain is rotation but not accelerate. With ANY frictions it is a non-runner ! A fixed 'B' roller-wheel ramp would operate better than the pivoted one shown because the ballast oscillating also wastes energy lost to the system.
However .. Bhaskara Wheels are very common in historical accounts (forerunners to many other designs) from earliest days, and IT MAY BE that B. with some mechanical slight of hand managed to turn his Bhaskara type into his famed PM runner. It certainly would fit his quip about finding it where everybody else had looked, but that is speculation on my part.
-f
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ReplyDeleteTom Wlazlak - wlazlakt@gmail.com
ReplyDeleteCorinne Technical Design - EttCM Energy to torque Conversion Motor system.
Magnagravity Engineering.
Mr. Collins Person to Person would you like to see something really Cool.
This technology uses two energy sources for one device output one energy runs the counter reaction and one energy runs the power output. if you have worked on the Wheel you know what that means.