Saturday, 25 June 2022

If You Won Would You Be Willing to Share with Other Claimants?

I noted an observation on the Besslerwheel forum, which I thought worth commenting on.  

Mr Tim, I think it was, suggested that “ I'm sure that once a working device is revealed there will no doubt be scads of people who will claim that parts of their designs were the inspiration for the discoverer's success, and that they therefore deserve a share... ;-)”

I have always thought that this was likely to happen and perhaps some of the claims might be true.  But there will always be some who can’t believe they’ve been beaten to the finish and are envious, disappointed or feeling that they were just pipped at the post. But if the one who succeeded had to give a share to other claimants of whatever reward materialised (in the event that something of value was offered), I think the number who felt they deserved a share might leave the victor with nothing of value other than an acknowledgement that he or she won; a worthwhile event, but a Pyrrhic victory.

I’m sure that if someone else got there first I too would be disappointed that it wasn’t me, but I’d still be delighted that I was still alive and kicking when it happened! I have always said I wouldn’t try to patent it if I had succeeded and I would share the information on the build as far and wide as possible.  I know that this is not a popular view and we are all entitled to our opinions, but I feel that patenting such a device would open the door to a multitude of claims and counter claims.  

I think that given the 300 plus years since Bessler first exhibited his Perpetual Motion machine and thousands or tens of thousands of people have sought the answer, if someone somewhere succeeds now, then it is seems quite likely that another successful build could appear at the same time, maybe more than one?   Inventions do sometimes seem to appear when they’re most needed.

This concern about others laying claim to all or part of the successful inventor’s is unwarranted in my opinion.  The successful inventor will simply either announce it along with the details and that date will be logged for ever, or apply to patent it.  Other claims to have been first would need proof and it is hard to think how that might be achieved.  Maybe a legal statement might lend weight to such a claim but it would have to detail everything about the device and perhaps include a video of a working model, suitably witnessed and time and date certified.

What ever the outcome, claims and counterclaims may follow but in the end the important point is that the technology will be out there.

JC



22 comments:

  1. At this time any talk about what one might do after he's produced a working pm wheel is just so much time wasting daydreaming. How could one even know that it's the same design that Bessler found? He'd have to assume that there is only one way to do it so if he has a working wheel it must be the same as Bessler's. There's no way of knowing that and it's a risky assumption to make. Better to focus on finding a runner first and don't worry about whether or not it's the same as Bessler's.

    As for any other claimants coming forth to grab a percentage of one's profits because some part of his wheel is similar to that of a claimant's wheel, that really means nothing. Right now in the US it is the first to patent an invention and not the first to invent it that gets priority. Another claimant could have invented the exact same design you have ten years earlier than you, but if he didn't patent it ahead of you, then he is not legally considered to be the inventor. This is why it's a good idea to patent one's runner as soon as possible. Also, be prepared to deliver a working model to the patent office so their examiners can verify that it works. Without that no patent will be granted.

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    1. Then it will probably be Elon Musk or Bill Gates that will be the inventor of the Bessler wheel, not Johann Bessler .

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    2. @anon07:13
      If you are right about those patent laws then it means anyone, if he knew what Bessler's wheel design actually was, could patent it and it would be his invention instead of Bessler's! That doesn't seem very fair to Bessler who did all that struggling to find a design that worked.

      Personally, I would never try to patent someone else's invention and pass it off as my own. That's just not right. I think an exception should be made in the patent laws for Bessler's wheel. It should now belong to the world and not just one crooked and greedy person or corporation.

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    3. And there will be Bessler cars powered with toxic lithium batteries, the cost to the environment will be enormous.

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    4. If it's powered with lithium batteries, then it definitely won't be a Bessler car!

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    5. Then it will be a coal powered steam engine type Bessler car, free energy will not be allowed.

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    6. @ anon11:09. Doesn’t seem fair to Bessler how? A design that’s unknown. how would we reconcile the new design with besslers when we don’t actually know what bessler design was. Would it be fair to assume any working wheel is besslers. The way it stands now, any working wheel that is even in one way similar to besslers clues would be tagged besslers.
      What if the person who did it has not even heard about bessler before?
      If bessler could produce a working wheel can’t another person do same. If not then there must be another bessler who left clues for bessler. On and on the chain goes.
      To me I believe bessler deserves no credit. Not unless a full manuscript of his designs was discovered. Not the BS he called clues.

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    7. @anon 19:49
      I think since both Ken B and John are convinced they have found Bessler's design, they would be the first to speak up and say some new inventor's pm wheel was just a copy of Bessler's wheel. They both work with those "BS" clues you mention but if either of their designs is a runner, then their criticism of the new inventor's pm wheel would carry some weight.

      But, as you say, the new inventor could have, by chance, stumbled upon the same design that Bessler had without ever having heard of Bessler. In that case, the new inventor would not have to give any credit to Bessler. Ken B and John, however, if their clues lead to a runner would have to give all the credit to Bessler since he provided those clues to them to use.

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    8. It seems perfectly possible that someone with no knowledge of Bessler or his work could stumble on the same design as Bessler’s, but might there be an alternative configuration that would achieve the same result? I don’t know but from what I do know there isn’t much chance of a completely different design.

      You refer to the clues both I and Ken B have claimed, as BS, and I agree that without the proof of a working wheel, they might as well be, but I would have thought that Ken’s clues are indeed BS and his design unworkable. You might well think the same can be said of mine, but I can assure you that they are not. I’m struggling not to share the whole details along with all the real clues, but I’m determined to try and build a working model first.

      JC

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    9. JC,
      Personal "assurances" of having the the only valid clues really mean nothing because both you and KB could delusional. In KB's favor is that he did publish the design his BS clues led to and claims he has sims that verify the design is a runner. But, still no one has made a physical runner from them. Otoh, you have published none of your BS clues so far. Now you are again saying you'll publish those clues AFTER you prove them with a working physical build. That could be never and contradicts what you promised in this earlier blog where you said you'd publish all clues before the end of 2022 whether you had a working build or not:

      https://johncollinsnews.blogspot.com/2022/04/update-moving-house-next-week-workshop.html?sc=1651080234928#c7564652622175154805

      Imo, you'd be far better off publishing all of your clues now and the design they describe and then letting others see if they can sim a runner from them for you. If they can, then that would at least put you at the same credibility level as KB.

      It's really amazing how negative some people are toward Bessler clues. Possibly that is because after decades of chasing them, no physical runner came from them. Hopefully, that will change soon. This subject desperately needs to show some solid progress for a change otherwise interest in it could eventually dwindle down to nothing.

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    10. @anon 09:46

      John is like a weather vane that spins around with the changing wind directions. You can't rely on anything he promises to do in any blog because a couple blogs later he'll have some new plan to announce. But if he ever wants to get anything done he has to latch onto one plan and stick with it.

      I think I agree with you that he should publish his clues and design as soon as possible and let others take off with it. If sims show it's a working design, then no doubt several will try to build it for him. And they will have better shop tools and skills than him to do that with. They won't be working on some cramped little table in the corner of a garage. What could take him months to do, they could probably do in a few days to a week or so. He'll still get the full credit for the design.

      It doesn't really matter who builds it. Bessler's wheels would have worked just as well whether he personally built them or some buyer of his invention started mass producing them to sell to other business men.

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    11. I confess my resolve to build a Besslerwheel according to my interpretation of his designs is…………weakening! I’m trying to do too much and as time flashes by, I worry I may never finish it!

      JC

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    12. In which case I’ll publish! JC

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    13. No rush John, there are only 8 billion people in need of the solution, we'll just wait patiently until you sort your problems out.
      RH46

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    14. Lol! By the time John gets his problems sorted out, we will be using fusion reactors for power!

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    15. You need a sense of humour in this area of study! Good job I’ve got one. LOL.

      JC

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    16. I've been looking up quotes about a sense of humor and found this one by the tv minister Billy Graham:

      "A keen sense of humor helps us to overlook the unbecoming, understand the unconventional, tolerated the unpleasant, overcome the unexpected, and outlast the unbearable."

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  2. A sense of humour and a positive mental attitude are a unbeatable combination.

    JC

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  3. For all you guys with a good sense of humor...here's your suggested list of books to read this summer:

    https://alwaysjudgeabookbyitscover.com

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    Replies
    1. Lol! My favorite is "People Who Don't Know They're Dead: How They Attach Themselves to Unsuspecting Bystanders and What to Do About It"

      You never know when the valuable info in that book could come in handy!

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    2. What's really amazing is how well these crazy books sell and they tend to get 4 and 5 star ratings! The titles are obviously intended to grab people's attention and they work. I liked "Do It Yourself Coffins for Pets and People". Sounds like a great way to save some cash in these inflationary times.

      A relative of mine just buried her husband and the casket cost around $4000. The funeral with it was another $6500. People can't even afford to die nowadays without running up more debt!

      Undertakers always try to run the tab up as much as possible by making the survivors feel guilty if they skimp on the funeral since it's the "last time" they will have a chance to spend money on their "dear departed one". They know how to take advantage of people when they are most emotionally vulnerable and desperate to get it all over with as soon as possible.

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    3. Lol! "But...You're a Horse" Too bad the book has nothing to do with the romance story suggested by its cover. It's just a collection of humorous experiences had by the people in the author's life.

      I also think these books all did well because of their bizarre titles and covers. Anything that catches a reader's eye for more than a few seconds increases the probability of a sale. Of course, the contents better be good too or it won't get good reviews which can dampen future sales.

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The Solution Lies within the Existing Documents.

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