This is just a short blog to update you on my efforts towards completing a working Bessler wheel. I used to procrastinate but not any more, I’m desperate to finish it and test it, but my intentions have been thwarted, because I’m so busy working on the house and the garden. Since we moved I’ve lost 13 pounds without dieting!
We moved house four months ago and I hoped to be in a new workshop soon after, but there has been so much to do that my plans have had to be put on hold. So frustrating! But slowly we are getting on top of the many tasks and I can get back to trying to build my version of Bessler’s wheel. I call it ‘my version’, because we cannot know for sure whether it’s the same design as his or not, but of course I believe it will be - and if possible I will prove it.
I’m aware that time is passing and I’m getting old, and just in case I’m right and my wheel is similar in design to Bessler’s, I should share what I know now ….. but I still want to confirm to my own satisfaction, that I’m right! Once I’ve tested it I will share everything.
I decided several years ago that if I succeeded in building a working model of Bessler’s wheel I wouldn’t attempt to patent it, it’s a waste of time and money - even if it was possible. I would just publish the details widely and let nature take its course and in time the world will find it, use it and develop it into something really useful, practical, cheap and clean.
I am putting a back-up system into place that will publish everything I have if I become unable to do so for any reason.
JC
Very curious to see the original :)
ReplyDeleteThe best for the continuation.
Thx4
Thank you Thx4
DeleteJC
I learned recently , laying and praying on the floor then on a hospital bed ... then having received 5 units of blood , dont waste time.
Delete"...and I can get back to trying to build my version of Bessler’s wheel."
DeleteWe've all read that same line from you year after year and nothing real ever comes from it whether "life gets in the way" or not. Maybe it's time for you to retire to a nice comfy armchair someplace and become just another philosopher type? Maybe you're already 99% of the way there and don't realize it yet?
John wrote: "I should share what I know now ….. but I still want to confirm to my own satisfaction, that I’m right! Once I’ve tested it I will share everything."
DeleteAnd if you ever finally do get anything built and test it and if it doesn't work, then you'll decide it still needs just few more tweaks to get it working. However, if all of those additional tweaks never get it working, then you'll never show anything.
Earlier this year you were boasting that you would reveal all before the end of THIS year whether you had anything built or not and if you actually had anything built, whether it worked or not. You seem to have now developed amnesia about that boasting done only a few months ago. Those who follow this blog haven't though.
Until you actually show something, as far as the world is concerned, it's like you have nothing to show no matter how much you may claim you do. It's up to YOU to prove them wrong and, so far, you haven't proved anything.
I expected those responses and I’m not surprised to read them. I made similar promises several times in the past and broke them, and I apologise for all those missed opportunities, but I’ll do my best to fulfil them as soon as possible. There’s nothing like the possibility of impending doom to galvanise a procrastinator into action!
DeleteJC
There are several ways of searching, the one of the clues that Bessler would have left through his different writings and which remains one of the most solid ways. It supposes that B would have found a way to circumvent the elementary rules of physics. Making a PM...
DeleteHistorically it is undeniable, the existence of wheels, obscure writings, sketches, suggests that he put his finger on something that no one before him had managed to do. A MP according to him, but not necessarily it is my conviction, whatever it is it remains to be demonstrated, a purely mechanical machine which turns more than 3 months without intervention remains a summit of engineering which remains to be reached, what he did...
thx4
Concerning the clues JC is the best placed to talk about them, to interpret them and to exploit them, he is like everyone else.
ReplyDeleteHe has a small advantage he does not say everything. lol
thx4
Seems the only woodwork JC will be doing is coming out once someone else has the solution. I’d like to believe JC wouldn’t do things this way, but I’m confident Jan Butler would.
ReplyDeleteHhmmn - who is Jan Butler? The name seems familiar.
DeleteJC
@anon10:31
DeleteKen B provided us with an interesting solution back in 2019 and its sudden appearance plus the growing impatience of the followers of this blog finally forced John into almost finishing his wheel design by September 2020. Unfortunately revealing it only showed it to be an unworkable nonrunner when it was finally simmed. Hopefully he learned his lesson from that and anything new he comes up with won't look anything like it. Imo, he needs to stay away from pulleys. Now it's 2022 and he hasn't shown anything since 2020. Before you know it, it will be 2023 and we'll all be happily predicting THAT will finally be the year when working Bessler wheels will appear and change the world. We've been having that same celebration every year for the last decade or so.
JC wrote: "Hhmmn - who is Jan Butler? The name seems familiar."
DeleteMight be his guy but what's he got to do with Bessler?:
https://www.pinterest.com/jannybutler/wood-working-plans/
Nope - not him.
DeleteJC
JC, it was an alias you nefariously used a while back.
DeleteWhy don’t all of you Ken B groupies take your tree-killing sim supplements and go away and once-and-for-all use it to build yourselves non-working machines? Then you can have your daily dose of tuna fish and sit back and veg.
Delete@anon03:44
DeleteAre you saying John was using a sock puppet to deceive others or pull off some hoax? You must be mistaken about that. I can't believe he'd stoop that low.
I did use it as an alias once but I can’t remember the circumstances, but nothing nefarious! My birth father’s name was Butler and an ancestor’s first name was Jan.
DeleteJC
John prepares to stun the world by finally revealing his fully working secret Bessler pm wheel design!
ReplyDeletehttps://i.postimg.cc/mkMcbfGm/John-s-Secret-Wheel.jpg
Finally we have some info about what John's been working on! It's about time. Also, nice van dyke you got there.
DeleteSome people thought I looked like Walter white from ‘Breaking Bad’, so I grew a goatee beard like his.
DeleteJC
Omg! John! It looks like this other guy also found your secret pm wheel design about a year ago! You should have gotten a patent on it if you found it first. Too late now. It could be worth billions!
Deletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-Tlt8LgZHs&t=41s
JC: "@Jeff, that isn’t relevant in my opinion. They may well “interact” with each other, but their masses are so vastly different that the weights will move and the earth will, to human eye, remain stationary. What about all the other trillions of movements affecting the earth? No, sorry Jeff you are so wrong."
ReplyDeleteWow, not relevant. Tell that to the solar system. Do you really think the math for gravitational forces is wrong? Because that's what you're saying there. Nasa might never get Artemis to the moon.
No Jeff, I was referring to your comments re the earth and the weights and the way the earth lifted the weights.
ReplyDeleteJC
Jeff: Gravity also causes the weights to fall on the ascending side. In other words, the two objects in question - the weight(s) and the earth - interact *with each other* and transfer kinetic and potential energy with each other that cancel each other."
ReplyDeleteI never said the earth lifted the weights. I said the earth is always causing the weights to fall; on the descending and ascending sides of a wheel. Jesus.
@Jeff
DeleteIt has been suggested that the secret of B's turning wheels was that their descending side weights were always losing more gpe at any instant than was being regained by their ascending side weights. This happened despite that the weights on both sides, which were equal in mass and number, were traveling down and then up through the same vertical distances.
How can something like that be possible? Only if something unusual yet simple to achieve was happening to the ascending side weights.
B suggested that those ascending side weights, that would have been attached to the ends of levers, "hung below and would rise in a flash" or something like that. This suggests that the ascending side weights first slowed down their speed of vertical ascent by swinging in toward the axle and then suddenly sped it up as they then swung away from the axle. If the change in swing direction of the weighted levers took place around 9 o'clock, then the changes in their vertical speeds would not just cancel each out as one might expect so that their average speed of vertical ascent was the same as the speed of descent of the descending side weights. The descending side vertical speed would always be a little greater.
The slightly more gpe lost by the descending side weights of a turning wheel could then be used to increase the rotation ke of all parts of the wheel around its axle and that would make them all speed them up.
I think the real key to finding out how B did this is to look at MT13 which is the only design in MT that he clearly praises. He even tells you it would work if someone could sit up at 12 o'clock and raise the levers as they came toward that position. I think he kept working with MT13 until he finally found a way to use the motions of the other swinging weight levers to lift those approaching weights up automatically.
I think he found working with twelve levers too difficult and eventually settled on just using eight levers (sorry John). Find out how he did that and you will solve his wheels. Count Karl said the design was "simple" so to me that means no gears, pulleys, or drive belts. B mentions a "connectedness principle" and that must mean the levers in his wheels were connected together in some way. Using lightweight cords or ropes between the levers seems most likely to me.
Sadly, no one seems that much interested in MT13 even though it probably holds the key to success. They are all too busy chasing after other designs that never work, armchair philosophizing as they fill free energy website pages up with pages and pages of mechanical babblings that almost no one even bothers to read anymore, or just trade nasty insults with each other because they are completely out of ideas and have a lot of time to waste. They are all slowly drowning in an ocean of speculations.
I recommend keeping your focus on MT13 and trying to imagine what was going through B's mind as he tried to make its ascending side weight carrying levers rise up in a flash BY THEMSELVES at 9 o'clock. Despite what skeptics might say, it was done mechanically and not by having a little trained animal inside of a wheel pulling them us at the right moment.
For any newbies here who have never seen the Maschinen Tractate drawing #13 or, as we call it, "MT 13", you can see it here:
Deletehttps://www.orffyre.com/MTHard013.gif
The note Bessler added to it reads:
"No. 13: This is a new weight-invention, with no belts or chains but each weight is separate and free except that each has an interval arm C with which it forms an angle, and on the cylinder hangs a figure which has below a weight in the shape of a half-moon and above a small wheel B over which the arms C sweep and lift themselves up at D. This invention would be very good for running if not so much friction were present or
someone was available up by D to always lift up the weight with lightning speed."
https://youtu.be/YZCrhR_CASs
Delete@anon 11:38
DeleteIt's a nice replica of mt13 and, like the original, is a nonrunner due to "friction" or too much negative or back torque. In the final modified version of it that Bessler found that worked, there was nothing "stationary on the axle" so that big pendulum was removed.
Where is the source we can pull apart , that shows bessler found a working modified version of mt13 with the pendulum removed?
DeleteThere is something special about MT13. As that SoS guy pointed out in the past, it's the only MT drawing with a smiling face on it! Why would Bessler make something like that? SoS said it was because working with that design made Bessler very happy. What would make him very happy? Finding a pm wheel design that worked! SoS also pointed out a lot of religious numerology in the drawing which includes the year of the crucifixion of Jesus. Bessler was a hyper religious numerologist who firmly believed that God gave him the secret of pm. What better way to honor that God and his son's sacrifice than by putting something like that into the design that finally led to a working pm wheel?
DeleteBessler also wrote in one of his books that "nothing hangs from the axle" which means that big crescent weight had to go. Also, don't forget that Bessler mentions that he let people stick their groping hands inside of the drum of the Merseburg wheel to grasp its axle. If there was anything hanging off of the axle, they would have immediately thought the wheel was a fake. There is no mention of anyone ever feeling anything in there but the bare wood of the axle.
PM Dreamer
Yeah but ,imo sos is not a source , bessler is .
Delete@anon 08:21
DeleteBut Bessler was the source of MT13 and not SoS. SoS just interpreted the numerology that Bessler put into that drawing. He had to have an important reason to do that. He wanted to draw our attention to it. Maybe we should do what he wanted us to do?
Don't be fooled by MT13, it is a break even design at best. Focus on what is not shown in MT15. That is the only way to finding the solution.
Deleteanon 21:07 wrote: "Don't be fooled by MT13, it is a break even design at best."
DeleteI don't think anyone here disputes that. What they are saying is that it will stop being "break even" IF it is properly modified and that, most likely, is what Bessler did with it.
It's also possible that Bessler could have modified MT15 to turn it into a runner. But if he found he had to reduce the number of weights and levers in MT13 down from 12 to 8 to simplify the design enough so he could work with it, would he have even tried to work with the 16 levers and 16 rods in MT15? Probably not.
Also, don't forget about him letting people at his public demonstrations reach inside of the Merseburg wheel's drum to feel its axle. If there had been a bunch of rods passing through its axle in there, they would have felt them and we have no reports that they ever did.
The weights "lose more gpe on one side than the other because of their different speeds" is probably the dumbest explanation I've ever heard.
ReplyDeleteActually it does make some sense. If the average vertical drop speed of the descending side weights was greater than the average vertical rise speed of the ascending side weights, then the descending side weights would have to be losing more GPE per second that was being gained back by the ascending side weights per second. That extra lost GPE of the descending side weights wouldn't just disappear. It would be used somehow and why not to accelerate the rotation of the wheel? The ascending side weights in Bessler's wheels must have been undergoing some unusual motions to produce this effect. Good luck finding them though!
DeleteSounds like the typical description of a lever
DeleteNo...no. Still dumb. explain how half of the wheel can descend faster than the other half. Use math and show your work.
DeleteWhat Anon is trying to convey , is the speed ratio of a typical mechanical advantage situation , imagine 2 weights , one close to a pivot the other far.
DeleteThe further weight covers more distance than the closer weight when they are moved around the pivot.
Because the further weight covers more distance than the closer weight , but both must do so in the same time , the further moves at a higher speed than the one closer to the pivot.
typical lever.
rather how half can descend faster than the other half rises.
DeleteRight, but what he fails to understand is it's a circular lever. Not just a seesaw.
Delete@anon 22:13
DeleteThat's a good way to describe Bessler's wheels. They were just circular levers in constant rotational motion. And when they lifted an outside weight it was done using the circular motion of the axle which was just a wheel's rotating fulcrum.
Where is your math?
DeleteRight. There is no math that shows a lever pivoting through 360 degrees can lift one side always faster than the other side. Hard to believe but, it's impossible to do in real life too. Try it.
DeleteA pivoting lever with the pivot away from its midpoint will allow on side to drop faster than the other rises for 180 degrees, but then the process reverses itself for the next 180 degrees. The trick would be to find a mechanism that only allows the lever to drop one of its sides faster than the other side rises for much less than 180 degrees and then have the process automatically start over again with a different lever so that the process is continuously taking place as a wheel rotates. In other words, the imbalance just has to be maintained as the wheel rotates.
DeleteIt must be possible to do this because that is what Bessler must have done. Also, it has to be simple to do. But, if it is so simple to do, then why hasn't it been done by anyone else in the last three centuries? It's easy to understand why the skeptics think Bessler must have been using a fake wheel. Yet, if he was wouldn't Karl have realized that and denounced him? Karl could have been in on the scam, but then you have to consider his reputation for integrity and honesty which would make that seem very unlikely.
Nope, still dumb.
DeleteEven if you have many levers on both sides of a wheel rather than having weights simply falling and rising, the math is the same. The levers can't fall faster on the descending side than the levers can rise on the ascending side. In other words, the RPM for the weights, the levers, anything else, and the drum is the same through 360 degrees.
@anon 19:30
DeleteI think you are wrong about that. You aren't considering that the levers on the ascending side might first be swinging ccw after they pass 6:00 and then suddenly change direction and swing cw as they pass 9:00 and head toward 12:00. That kind of swing direction change of the rising side weight levers will alter the average vertical rise speed of their weights compared to the average vertical drop speed of the weights of the levers on the wheel's descending side which only constantly swing cw as they travel from 12:00 toward 6:00 and do not reverse their swing directions. At any instant, the average vertical drop speed of the descending side weights should be a little more than the average vertical rise speed of the ascending side weights. (There is a way of showing this mathematically, but it's a long algebra treatment which probably wouldn't interest most here.) That means the wheel's weights will constantly be losing gpe and it can be used to accelerate the entire wheel. The wheel would not accelerate, however, if that lost gpe is used to power some outside machine attached to the wheel's axle that draws it off at the same rate it is outputted.
The interesting thing about such odd vertical weight motions around the wheel is that they will output gpe even though the weights on both sides of the wheel fall and rise through the same vertical distance! All of the physical explanations I have ever seen about how weights moving around a "closed path" in a gravity field can't output any gpe assume that the average vertical fall and rise speeds of the weights on both sides of a rotating wheel are always the same. When they aren't, some very unusual things become possible. Things like, for example, Bessler's wheels!
No, you’re wrong. The speeds are the same for both sides. The weight paths on the ascending side can be as pretzel like as you want but they will not be slower than the descending weights through one or more cycles. While you work on that long algebra, we’ll be munching popcorn.
DeleteDon't choke on that popcorn!
DeleteSay a weight at the end of its slowly cw swinging lever drops from 12:00 to 6:00 on the descending side of a wheel and has an average vertical drop speed of 5 feet per second during that time.
Meanwhile, the diametrically opposite weight on the ascending side of the wheel, as it moves from 6:00 to 9:00, only has an average vertical rise speed of 4.0 feet per second because its lever is swinging ccw during that time. But then, as that same weight passes the 9:00 location of the wheel and moves from 9:00 to 12:00, its average vertical rise speed suddenly increases to 5.5 feet per second because its lever changed its swing direction from ccw to cw during that time. Going from an average vertical rise speed of 4.0 ft/sec to 5.5 ft/sec is a big increase. Bessler might have described that increase by writing "the weight which hangs below must rise in a flash".
If you compute the average value of those two average vertical rise speeds of the ascending side weight as it travels from 6:00 to 12:00, then you get (4.0 ft/sec + 5.5 ft/sec)/2 = (9.5 ft/sec)/2 = 4.75 ft/sec. The average vertical drop speed of the descending side weight was 5.0 ft/sec as it moved from 12:00 to 6:00, but the average vertical rise speed of the opposite ascending side weight was 4.75 ft/sec as it moved from 6:00 to 12:00 which is 5% LESS than the average vertical drop speed of the descending side weight.
This also means that the weight on the ascending side increases its GPE by drawing rot KE from the wheel at an average rate that is 5% LESS than the average rate at which the descending side weight is losing its GPE and delivering it to the wheel to increase its rot KE. As a result, rot KE will accumulate in the wheel and it should accelerate its rotation speed.
In this example, the two diametrically opposite weights BOTH travel through the SAME vertical distance during the SAME time. But, their average vertical speeds are not the same as they do that.
jason
@jason
DeleteWhat you are discussing is all theoretical, and honestly I cannot make any sense of it as much as I am trying. Even if the weights do move as you describe, each and every one of them is subject to the gravitational ACCELERATION -- not speed -- of 32.1740 ft/s^2 across *continuous* moments in time !! How does 4 to 5.5 ft/s of a moving weight overcome a 32.1740 ft/s^2 *relentless* pull on it? I am assuming the weights are all attached to the wheel in some form. Gravity will seek out that center of mass and bring the wheel to rest (below the axle) sooner or later. PM chasers either ignore or undermine the omnipresence and magnitude of gravity. That's why for 300 years no runner has ever come of these "tethered" designs and again for another 300 years^(infinity). I am certain of it.
@mryy
DeleteI think Jason was talking about a CW turning wheel that looks something like MT13 only without needing that big pendulum thing hanging off the axle. You have to imagine that wheel's levers pointing straight down at 6 o'clock and then swinging CCW as they approach 9:00 until they make some angle with an imaginary horizontal line through the center of the axle.
However, once a lever passes 9:00 it begins swinging CW and its weight rapidly rises vertically as it moves farther from the axle. At 12:00 the lever will still not be pointing straight up like it does in MT13. It will continue to swing CW for a while longer as its weight gets closer to the rim of the wheel. That might happen before it reaches 6:00 though when the weight hits some stop and makes an impact sound. At that time the lever will be pointing straight away from the axle. To make something like this work would require that the swinging motions of the levers be carefully coordinated with each other. I agree with others here who think that had to be done using ropes between the levers.
If Jason's analysis is valid, then such a wheel will always be overbalanced with the COG of its weights located and remaining on the descending side. When released the wheel will start to turn immediately. You are right about Earth's gravity applying equal force to all of the weights at the same time (actually the weights at the bottom are very slightly heavier than the ones at top but it's an insignificant difference). That condition is necessary for such an overbalanced wheel to work and it shouldn't interfere with the overbalanced condition of the wheel.
lol. you're confusing average and instantaneous speed. And, lol again, there is no support for the speeds that you have used. Try again.
DeleteJust make it up and someone will build it and they will come, not.
Average speed is distance/time. The vertical distances are the same and the times are the same, as you said:
Jason/Ken: "In this example, the two diametrically opposite weights BOTH travel through the SAME vertical distance during the SAME time."
The popcorn is delicious.
@anon 04:45
Delete"You are right about Earth's gravity .... That condition is necessary for such an overbalanced wheel to work and it shouldn't interfere with the overbalanced condition of the wheel."
It's not necessary -- it's problematic. Gravity unceasingly interferes in these "tethered" designs. It's smarter and sneakier than you think. At every opportunity such as a minute break in the movement of a weighted lever, gravity steadfastly enters and gradually draws the wheel toward equilibrium. Not only levers and weights gravity acts against chords/ropes as well. The effect is cumulative and multiplied times over, you eventually lose out to it. An acceleration of ~32 ft/s^2 is not a small number, people. Again some pm chasers either ignore or underestimate (not "undermine" sorry) gravity's counter ubiquitousness.
No such runner has ever come from these designs and Bessler made many of them -- that is telling. For proof see the MT drawings that he didn't destroy.
@Anon16:10
DeleteI think you should put aside your bowl of popcorn for a moment and reread those previous comments more carefully.
As an ascending side lever rises in a cw rotating wheel between 6:00 and 9:00, its lever is swinging ccw and OPPOSITE to the direction of the rotating wheel which I think is referred to as retrograde motion. That reduces its weight's average vertical rise speed to that figure of 4.0ft/sec that Jason gave. After the lever passes the cw rotating wheel's 9:00 location and heads for 12:00, it starts swinging cw and in the SAME direction as the cw rotating wheel and that increases its weight's average vertical rise speed to the 5.5ft/sec figure that Jason gave. The average of those two averages will be 4.75ft/sec as he calculated which is less than the average vertical fall speed of 5.0ft/sec he gave for the descending side weight.
I do agree that he seems to be guessing at the values of those average vertical speeds. But, if he's right, it shows that you can have a weight on the descending side of a wheel lose more gpe as it travels from 12:00 to 6:00 than the opposite ascending side weight must be supplied with as it travels from 6:00 to 12:00. Since the levers of the two opposed weights are attached to the wheel and fixed relative to each other, the weight leaving 12:00 will always arrive at 6:00 at the exact same instant that the weight leaving 6:00 arrives at 12:00 and the vertical distance each weight moves through must always be the same.
I think we have to keep in mind that Jason and others were talking about a single opposed pair of weights in a wheel as the wheel turned through 180 degrees. In Bessler's actual wheels there were probably at least four opposed pairs of weights so at any time there were always four weights in motion on each side of a turning wheel.
For a wheel rotating at any speed, it should be possible to add all of its weights' individual losses and gains of gpe per second together to get the total change in gpe for a single weight as it vertically drops and travels completely either between 12:00 and 6:00 or vertically rises and travels completely between 6:00 and 12:00. I think Jason is right that we would see that the total change in gpe for two such weights would not be equal with the ascending side value always be a little less than the descending side value.
This is all interesting to discuss theoretically, but it does nothing to tell us how to make the pairs of opposed weight carrying levers in a wheel have the necessary swinging motions as the wheel turns to produce this odd effect. As someone once said, "The devil is in the details." Those details must have been in those MT drawings that Bessler removed and destroyed.
Truth is gravity doesn't care how fast or slow the symmetrically arranged levers inside an axled wheel swing and what their energies are. It only cares whether one side is heavier than the other. And it turns the wheel downward from the heavier side. It really is that simple and we're making it more complicated than should be. Btw axled wheels are just levers in the shape of a circle.
DeleteBessler: "For this concept, my 'principle of excess weight' ... These weights are themselves the perpetual motion device, the 'essential constituent parts' which must of necessity continue to exercise their motive force (derived from the PM principle [excess weight]) indefinitely..." DT190 John Collins/Mike Senior translation 2005
I don't know if you guys realize it or not, but so far everything you've written applies perfectly to Ken B's version of Bessler's wheel because its ascending side weight levers also all change their swing directions from CCW to CW as their pivots pass the drum's 9 o'clock location. Final noise producing contact of a lever with a wood stop attached to the drum doesn't take place until a lever's pivot has traveled around a CW turning wheel to the drum's 3 o'clock location.
DeleteNo, I need more popcorn.
DeleteYou’re confused about speed around an axis (angular velocity) vs. linear (over a surface) speed. That’s leading you to this belief that mass can gain GPE the way you’ve described.
Ken:
“This also means that the weight on the ascending side increases its GPE by drawing rot KE from the wheel at an average rate that is 5% LESS than the average rate at which the descending side weight is losing its GPE and delivering it to the wheel to increase its rot KE. As a result, rot KE will accumulate in the wheel and it should accelerate its rotation speed.”
The only way to increase and decrease gpe is from the only thing variable: height. Mass and constant g are fixed. Since we know bessler’s wheels didn’t get bigger with each rotation, varying their heights, we know the weights and levers weren’t increasing their gpe. And, we can then deduce that you’re wrong.
GPE is only calculated with , mass and height and gravity. GPE = MGH.
ReplyDeletechange in height , change in mass , change in gravitation field , changes the GPE.
You all need to understand circular motion and ratios this is fundamental and what is relative power is measured by work done time and distance have a geometrical relationship in a gravitational field and outside a gravitational field of another large body plays a part in the design many would have you believe that it is impossible to manipulate time and space geometrically they do not have the experience to know better it's easy to be that way when you stopped looking
DeleteSG...there's a punctuation mark called a "period". It's that little dot placed at the end of the last and this sentence. They probably never use it over in the bizarro parallel universe, but it's very popular here. You need to learn how to use it when you visit our universe and leave comments.
DeleteShemp
If you do not like the way I write do not read you'd like to separate the universe wouldn't you and break the continuity of what is real and what is fake it's your choice as an individual whether to read or not you were given free will so decide what is important to you
DeleteYou are just another stooge BMA!
His sentences are missing their periods? Maybe they're pregnant!
Deletehttps://i.postimg.cc/y8Bhdm4g/besslerwupd7.jpg
ReplyDeleteThis is a bi-directional wheel (looking like a flower maybe?) Some readers in the past commented that the pole trigger could get stuck when it hits the lever. I forgot to mention that it DOESN'T. It never did even when a catch-and-release trigger version was employed in my earlier designs. The trigger only goes so far in its downward movement, enough to tap the lever under tension. When the lever swings back up to its unloaded position, there will be some clearance between it and the trigger as seen in the above drawing.
Why are the flowers so red:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MspCE2uwFQg
@JC and all of the British people
ReplyDeleteSorry to hear of the passing of your nation's queen at age 96. She will be well remembered as the longest reigning British monarch as well as a very dignified and gentle lady. The double rainbow that appeared in the rainy sky during the announcement of her death at Buckingham Palace was a nice and almost magical tribute to her (the second rainbow is above the first and much fainter in the photo linked to below). However, she actually died peacefully at her favorite summer home, Balmoral Castle, which is in Aberdeenshire, Scotland. Her health crisis must have come on suddenly because there is video of her that was made only two days earlier showing her walking about unaided except for the use of a cane.
https://www.shropshirestar.com/resizer/U5aKuilnXSPYqxXJfJCYBPSD9LQ=/1200x0/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/mna/WDX7EVEAHBH5PPXFOJLUPVA6CE.jpg
Anonymous and PROUD of it!
Thank you AaPoi. I can’t answer for the rest but I appreciate it, and I’m sure if anyone else reads your kind comment, they will do so too. She was a wonderful, dedicated lady with a great sense of humour, and she will be sorely missed.
DeleteJC
Rest in peace QE II...you will be missed.
DeleteI saw someone mention that QE II died on the same day of the year that QE I was born back in the 16th century. If true, that is a remarkable coincidence.
That double rainbow is also an interesting weather phenomenon. If you look very carefully at the two rainbows, you will notice that the upper fainter rainbow has the order of its bands of color reversed from that of the lower brighter rainbow.
That is because the lower brighter rainbow is created by incoming sunlight being refracted down to the camera as it passes through the insides of the individual rain drops in the air while the upper fainter rainbow is caused by the bands of color of the lower rainbow being reflected off of the outside surfaces of other rain drops in the air before traveling down to the camera.
I was also saddened to hear of the Queen's death. But, among all of the funeral pageantry that's beginning, it seems to me that no one is asking a very simple question. What was the cause of her death? All we were told first was that her doctors "were concerned" and then that she finally "died peacefully" from "natural causes" because she was so old. End of story and time to elevate Prince Charles to King Charles and have a big state funeral. But was her death really due to natural causes? Or, was it the result of medical incompetence? Did it really need to happen even though she was 96?
DeleteI saw an enlarged photo of her hobbling around with a cane two days before she died. If you look at her right hand in that photo you will see that it is blue from a giant hematoma. That is bleeding that can happen under the skin when an intravenous line is inserted into a vein there. But, her hematoma is probably one of the largest I've ever seen.
I'm very suspicious that her doctors may have overdosed her with blood thinners with the intention of dissolving any blood clots that might travel to her brain and cause what's called an ischemic stroke. Yes, they are an effective treatment when taken in correct doses, but so also is just taking a daily small dose of aspirin.
When more powerful blood thinning drugs are used instead and in excess, they can greatly increase the risk of another and far more dangerous type of stroke called a hemorrhagic stroke taking place where small blood vessels burst in the brain from a head trauma or high pressure and that results in the brain cells supplied with oxygen by those vessels dying off if they can't get enough oxygen from other nearby and still intact blood vessels. If the blood vessel that bursts is a larger one, it can result in a large section of the brain dying. The victim then can become paralyzed, blind, lapse into a coma, and even die in a matter of minutes.
Maybe the Queen was starting to have little hemorrhagic strokes all along, but instead of reducing the dose of blood thinner drug she was getting, some incompetent "doctor" decided to increase it because he mistaken thought she was having ischemic strokes. With her blood finally having almost no ability to clot, she could have bumped her head or even just rolled over quickly in bed and that could have caused a larger blood vessel to tear in her brain and keep bleeding and she then went into a coma. Her caregivers would have realized she was in serious trouble when she couldn't be awaken the next morning. That's when they started to contact her various royal family members to come immediately to her bedside. She may even have been brain dead before they arrived but was kept alive on a ventilator until they got there after which they pulled the plug on her and she died "peacefully' around noon or so local time.
Maybe if it did happen that way, but she had received more competent medical care to start with she could have lived on to 100 or more. I don't expect there to ever be any sort of autopsy to determine exactly how she died, but I have my suspicions about how it may really have happened. The official version of a natural and peaceful death has now been given to the world and that will be the version that will go into the history books.
I'm sure John can appreciate what I'm saying here considering the experience his family had a few years ago with his granddaughter. Our healthcare systems are riddled with doctors and nurses who won't hesitate to cover up the mistakes caused by their incompetence and negligence to save their careers. The Queen, despite her wealth and status, could have also been just another victim of one of them. We'll never know for sure.
John, if you feel that this comment of mine is inappropriate or disrespectful at this time, then please feel free to delete it.
@anon 01:23
DeleteI read your long comment and I don't think what you suspect is an impossibility. It's even possible that the royal family, not being medical experts, were given a pack of lies when they inquired about what happened to the queen. Even if they did suspect medical malpractice and could prove it, they may have decided to keep it quiet so as not to attach a final scandal to her otherwise flawlessly honorable biography.
I think things like that happen a lot more frequently than most people suppose. Remember the guy who was pope before John Paul II? He was named John Paul I and only about one month after becoming pope they found him dead in the morning from a "heart attack". During his one month reign he started saying some really radical things like he wanted to start having women priests conducting masses, that gays were not sinning and should be welcomed to join the church without having to change their lifestyles, and that abortion should not necessary be considered murder.
Maybe his sudden and unexpected death had nothing to do with his new liberal church philosophy...but then again maybe it did! I have no problem imagining some of the cardinals secretly getting together and deciding that since they couldn't control him, it was time for his soul to be sent up to heaven so his office on earth could be filled by someone else more to their liking. All it would have taken was someone slipping him a big dose of digitalis in his evening tea. They then made sure that the next pope they elected would be one they could control and would be saying exactly what they wanted him to say which is what he did.
I trust very little of what I see in the international news nowadays. It's all about keeping the masses thinking their leaders are competent and have everything under control and are looking out for them. The exact opposite is the actual reality.
I don’t find your comment disrespectful 01:23, as you said, our family have painful knowledge of the effects of poor medical treatment resulting in my granddaughter being paralysed from the waist down.
DeleteHowever while I don’t discount your comments as impossible, the Queen did have the top doctors attending her and Sir Huw Thomas has an impressive CV and did not attend her on his own but consulted with other doctors in attendance. Prince Charles as he was then, was present for some time before her death so hopefully was able to see her still conscious. So I tend to believe the official account.
JC
I also think the queen's sudden death is a bit suspicious. One day she's walking around with a cane and two days later they are pronouncing her dead? I think that hemotoma on her hand speaks volumes. I'm surprised someone didn't try to cover it up by having her wear white gloves or something. Maybe she fell and hit her head in her bedroom and was too embarrassed to tell anyone about it? Elderly people do things like that all the time.
DeleteAnyway, any kind of head injury in an elderly person using blood thinners should be a major concern for his or her doctor. Here's an informative webpage that will show you what blood thinners can do to someone's brain if they are not properly prescribed and monitored:
https://premierneurologycenter.com/blog/blood-thinners-head-injuries-what-you-need-to-know/
@anon 01:23. I agree with your comments about John Paul 1, there several suspicious actions and non-actions associated with his sudden death and there are some convincing books throwing light on what happened.
DeleteJC
Here's a close up of that purple bruise on her hand that was captured as she reached out to shake someone's hand:
Deletehttps://d.newsweek.com/en/full/2112424/queen-bruised-hand.webp?w=790&f=37632060fa74af336b823da98f0b2bf6
I decided to revisit this quote and further study its meaning:
Delete"He will be called a great craftsman, who can easily/lightly throw a heavy thing high, and if/when one pound falls a quarter, it shoots four pounds up four quarters high."
My latest design uses poles passing through the wheel's axle, but they may not be necessary as the levers are self-triggering -- hopefully. Suppose the levers competently launch the weights by themselves. The triggering poles thus can be eliminated (which results in greater design simplicity and performance).
Originally I thought a falling pole should weigh 1/4 the mass of a hoisted weight. Now how does the foregoing quote fit in with the new picture where the poles are absent? I believe it means that the hoisted weight (red) must be 1/4 the mass of the hoisting weight (yellow). Further the vertical distance of the descending half of the trajectory path that the hoisted weight follows must be 1/4 the radius of the wheel. When this weight lands on the 3:00 lever it causes the 6:00 hoisting weight to ascend to 9:00 a vertical height equal to the radius, after which the another hoisted weight lands at the 3:00. See below (not drawn to accuracy):
https://i.postimg.cc/Fz2sZBvm/besslerwupd8.jpg
*IF* this is true, Bessler was perhaps indirectly revealing optimum design calculations for the weight ratio and trajectory height. Thanks Bessler!
I still am puzzled about the compartments and holes on the axle which Bessler mentioned. What purpose do they serve then?
First of two parts:
DeleteMRYY wrote: "I still am puzzled about the compartments and holes on the axle which Bessler mentioned. What purpose do they serve then?"
There were no holes or compartments in of the section of axle hidden inside of the Merseburg wheel's drum because, if there had been, then those Bessler allowed to reach through a slit in the cloth covering its side to grasp the axle would have felt them. The line in AP that mentions them is a poorly translated one. The holes refer to the service openings cut into the cloth of the drum's back face and the compartments refer to the sections that the drum was divided into by its wooden radial frame pieces. Bessler and his brother would have been the only one's who ever viewed that wheel's drum before its cloth sides were attached to hide its "perpetual motion structures" and they noticed that the radial frame pieces divided the drum up into open sectors or "compartments".
Many believe that each weight carrying lever was mounted on a steel pivot rod that spanned the thickness of the drum from a radial frame piece on one side of the drum to a parallel placed radial frame piece on the other side of the drum. Placing the pivots like that kept them securely fixed in place as their levers and their end weights swung around them while the drum rotated.
One has to be very careful about reading some translated line of 18th century German poetry in AP and then jumping to the conclusion that it literally describes something inside of Bessler's wheels. You are only reading ONE translator's translation based on HIS particular subjective opinion about the meaning of those verses of German poetry that he then converted into modern English prose to make them more readable. A different translator might give you a quite different subjective English translation of the same verses.
(continued in next comment)
(continued from previous comment)
DeleteSecond of two parts:
There was an artist guy here years ago that was obsessed with the AP Chapter 55 "little book" poetry verses which he was convinced literally described the secret mechanics of Bessler's wheels. He had built a wood shop into his home over in England and eventually filled a whole room up with all sorts of devices which consisted of curvy shaped arms that, as one heavy weight's arm fell away from a device's pivot, would extend out another long arm with a smaller weight at its end that traveled much farther from the device's pivot. He obviously took that AP poetry line about one weight dropping a quarter and making another weight shoot up four quarters seriously.
These devices he made were very intricate and required him to make many preliminary drawings so he could later precisely cut the parts from thin pieces of wood. These were all then carefully sanded, stained, varnished, and finally assembled. They looked like pieces of furniture when finished and some were quite large. He probably spent weeks or months working on each device. And, yes, as the heavier weight in them fell a certain distance, it did shoot another weight out four times as far but not necessarily straight up.
For some odd reason, he never got beyond building a single two weight device for each of his designs which proved nothing because he would have needed at least two identical devices mounted in opposition to each other on a common pivot if he wanted to use them to make an overbalanced type pm wheel. As soon as he finished one device, he would have some new ideas about the AP poetry lines that he intended to use in a new device that he was planning to build. He eventually disappeared from the Bessler pm wheel research scene and no one's heard from him since. I do vaguely recall someone made a documentary video about him that appeared somewhere years ago. It might have been on dailymotion.com I'm not sure if it was made while he was still building or after he finally gave up. John, might remember him though.
There have probably been thousands of guys over the centuries doing exactly like he did which was making the huge mistake of taking anything Bessler wrote too literally. Bessler does give us SOME accurate information about the mechanics of his wheels, but it is probably only 1% of what you need to know to actually reproduce one. The other 99% of the information you need was in those MT drawings he destroyed and is now still in the carefully hidden clues he embedded in the remaining drawings he provided us with.
@anon 05:46, I do remember the artist you mentioned. His name is John Worton and you can see a video of him and his work at https://vimeo.com/151241081
DeleteVery beautiful creations but no success so far. I don’t know if he is still designing Bessler’s wheel. It would be wonderful if he could build his own version once he knew the true concept. Thanks for reminding me of his work.
JC
Here’s another video about him
Deletehttps://chariswhite.com/2017/03/31/house-tour-artists-home-in-cornwall/
JC
Thanks, John, for that second link you gave that is to Claris White's blog and not to a video and which shows a photo tour she did of the interior of Worton's home. I'm impressed that Worton and his wife were living in a 16th century Cornish cottage. Looks like the perfect place for an artist to live while working away from the noise and pollution of big cities. Bessler was no fan of big city life either. One of the photos shows the entire room he filled with his Bessler inspired, overbalancing gadgets. It must have taken him years of work to make all of them.
DeleteAlso check out the two comments at the bottom of her blog's page. Even Worton could not escape from the ubiquitous Ken B!
Yes I did see that Ken B had posted a link to his video.
DeleteJC
@anon 05:42, I absolutely agree that much can be lost in translation especially from a different language of a different time period. Someone in another blog responded to me essentially the same as you about the holes and compartments and what they were supposed to be. And I thought the person was deluded...maybe not lol. If so this is good news as I am not favorable to poles on the axle or any addition which complicates the design.
Delete"Many believe that each weight carrying lever was mounted on a steel pivot rod that spanned the thickness of the drum from a radial frame piece on one side of the drum to a parallel placed radial frame piece on the other side of the drum."
This is what I had in mind for the proposed design. Bessler mentioned "crossbars" and "pulleys". I believe the crossbars were a pair of spokes/radial frame pieces spanning diametrically on one side at right angles to each other, and the pulleys were the pivot rods (without the chords).
"He obviously took that AP poetry line about one weight dropping a quarter and making another weight shoot up four quarters seriously."
The fact that Bessler included metrics for this poetry line related to the wheel's workings warrants some consideration I feel. As it pertains to my design I actually find it sensible. The hoisting weight must be appreciably heavier to cause the torsion spring to wound up with optimum PE, and later launch the lighter hoisted weight high enough to reach the upper lever. If the two weights were closer in mass this may not happen. The only way to find out is to build one. Now if I can convert my garden shed to a workshop...
Thank you for the information about John Worton, gentlemen. Beautiful pieces of creation there albeit "tethered" designs from what I can see. Beautiful nevertheless and lovely abode/setting as well. Johann, John, John -- is there a pattern here?
The color of water:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5O_CxYnhwVA
Here is what I think is the most important part of that Charis White blog about artist John Worton:
Delete"Inspiration for John’s sculptures came from a book he bought in 2000 called ‘Perpetual Motion; an Ancient Mystery Solved?' by John Collins. This led him to study a poem written with clues by a 17th Century German entrepreneur called Johann Bessler for a self-balancing/self-revolving structure mounted on an axle. John believes Bessler did achieve this. “The reason I have worked on it for 10 years now is because if this structure can be found, it could mean green clean pollution-free energy.”
"John’s artistic approach has meant that each handmade piece is finished to the highest aesthetic and finish. Colours of the sculptures co-ordinate perfectly with art, furnishings and furniture in their home. Some of the arms of the sculptures have beautiful thick felt – the sort you might find on piano hammers."
This image shows how, like Bessler did with his Draschwitz wheel, Worton glued pieces of felt to the contacting parts in one of his sculptures, which are actually mechanical constructions with moving parts, to cushion their impacts and reduce noise:
https://chariswhiteblog.files.wordpress.com/2017/03/image120.jpeg?w=531&h=396&zoom=2
Like Bessler, Worton spent a decade chasing after a working design. Unlike Bessler, he failed. Despite that, his sculptures do have a kind of natural, flowing beauty to them. I think he actually pioneered an entirely new style of kinetic art which can be called "Besslerian Art". I wonder if he ever managed to sell any of the pieces and, if so, how much they sold for.
PM Dreamer
@mryy
DeleteThanks for the link to those girls doing the aqua dance. They're amazing. If water came to life, it would look just like them!
Hey, guys...did anybody here ever buy the plans for the Dieter Marfurt "Osmosis Motor" and build it? Supposedly it will run for weeks on a single liter of water! Here's the link I found to it, but the link given there to buy the plans no longer works:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.overunity.com/watermotor/
I don't think this was the secret of Bessler's wheels because it turns too slow. But, I'd love to try building this wheel and maybe using something other than paper.
I'm not sure what he means by it being an osmosis motor. But, why settle for your wheel only running for a few weeks when you can have it run forever? Here's a design that claims that can be done using capillary action which you can consider building:
Deletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnw3HKiMh78
If you get it working, just place it into a small aquarium tank and seal a cover over its top. That will prevent the water from all evaporating away into the air over time, so you won't need to keep adding more water to replace it.
All that water splashing around could make a mess plus there's a water shortage on the west coast of the US now. Save the water and try making this simple permanent magnet powered wheel that will run a lot faster for you.
Deletehttps://i.stack.imgur.com/rhhTv.gif
Come to think of it, maybe this is how Bessler's wheels actually worked. During those official tests did anyone check for magnets hidden under the floor boards or above the ceiling? Probably not because those rich dudes back then didn't like getting their hands dirty. They still don't.
Yeah, Bessler pulled some four pound weights out of his wheels for them to handle, but were they really made of lead? Maybe they were actually small cylindrical lodestones! He just had to make sure no one handled two of them at the same time and saw them attracting or repelling each other. All of his talk about his wheels being weight driven could have just been to distract them from their real source of power...magnets! Here we are 300 years later and his distraction is still working on 99 out of 100 of you Bessler pm wheel chasers.
@anon 05:47
DeleteIf Bessler used magnets then how did he make two way wheels work with them? That magnet wheel you show can only turn one way. Also if what you showed actually worked then someone would have made it a long time ago and we'd be using them today. I think that capillary motor anon 00:49 showed us has more chance of working.
I agree with you anon 08:51. The guys inspecting B's wheels prior to testing them weren't idiots. They would have suspected the use of magnets and checked above and below a wheel with compasses to see if there were any magnetic fields there that made their needles spin around and point away from north. If they had found them, B would have had to explain why they were there and no one ever wrote that he did that.
Delete