I’m not a numerologist nor a code expert, and even though I know Bessler practised alphanumerics, the Caesar Shift and other similar versions of it, as well as chronograms and a variety of ways of disguising information, I have managed to extract some useful information. But until I can prove it is correct it’s still just speculation.
It seems obvious that Johann Bessler hoped at some point, after his death, that people might be intrigued enough to study his books and try to extract the hidden information. Well I’ve tried, as have many people from around the world, but so far without success. For me, success would be the publication of an explanation of how his wheel worked plus a high quality video, a verifiable and repeatable simulation and most importantly a working model. So far no claimants.
One of the results of all the information so far gleaned from the legend of Bessler’s wheel, has been an upsurge in spurious speculation. Numerology for instance, I read that it “is the belief in an occult, divine or mystical relationship between a number and one or more coinciding events. It is also the study of the numerical value, via an alphanumeric system, of the letters in words and names. When numerology is applied to a person's name, it is a form of onomancy.”
For example,“ onomancy is an old-fashioned kind of fortune telling based on a person's name. If three women with the same name sit at a table, one of them will be married within the year. Believe it or not, that's onomancy. The belief in a connection between luck and a person's name is an old one.”
Do I read my horoscope? Not for about 50 years! To believe that the motion of the stars can affect a person’s life is nonsense and to assign meaning to significant numbers which you can relate to people’s names is equally a waste of time.
On the other hand if it can be shown that Bessler used alphabetic substitution, alphanumerics and chronograms to hide useful information, that in itself doesn’t mean that he believed in the original purpose of such beliefs. All it tells us is that he used an existing system to hide information. Those beliefs offered a readymade system for him to adapt to his own purposes. One unfortunate effect of this is that others who practise numerology for instance, search for examples of the belief in Bessler’s works, and finding certain coincidental numbers which they then apply according to the rules of numerology, and pronounce their findings accordingly. To me this too, is meaningless.
I have always believed that it is easy enough to make an argument for a certain conclusion by looking for certain numbers, manipulating them according to procedures laid down in the rules, and present one’s conclusions. The numbers appear to be very elementary and ways of finding them and making one’s calculations, absurdly simple. As you may be able to tell, I don’t believe in foretelling the future in this or any other way.
However I do believe that Bessler hid a lot of information in letters, numbers and drawings, and as many who come here will know, I have many significant examples of this.
Having said all this I do enjoy some of the posts detailing the examples of the numerologist’s art particularly when their conclusions appear so apposite, but in my opinion there is neither use nor value in them, other than as a form of entertainment. If somehow an expert in numerology could make some predictions that could be checked and verified, that would go someway towards reducing my opposition to this belief system.
One thing has always guided me in presenting information about Johann Bessler and that was to try to base it on documentary evidence. If I speculated about anything I tried to make it clear that it was my personal opinion and unsubstantiated.
This subject matter relies heavily on documentary evidence and even circumstantial evidence should be clearly identified.
It is therefore with much regret that I’m going to have to do something to stop people making comments that have no documented evidence to support them and which are presented as fact, when they are personal opinions.
I can’t make it a feature of this blog to require people to sign in, for some reason it’s not possible, which leaves me with two options. Either I stop allowing comments, or I systematically delete all offending comments.
The latter does not appeal, so I will be closing the comments very soon. If those who continue to post comments in support of Ken B’s completely absurd notions wish for the comments be allowed to continue, perhaps they would consider removing them selves from this blog permanently so the rest of us can continue to discuss Bessler in a reasonable manner.
JC
Ken B managed to find DOZENS of new numerological clues in the DT portraits and that SoS guy has found so many in the MT drawings over the years that I actually lost count of them all! Where were you while all those new clues were being discovered? Just keeping a low profile and hoping no one would notice that you were completely unaware of them until those two pointed them out to you and everyone else.
ReplyDeleteYou like to dismiss and even put down the numerological Bessler research of others, all openly revealed, yet want everyone to think only YOUR new clues, STILL unrevealed and doubted by many here to even exist, are the ONLY valid ones and will lead to THE solution!
You're not fooling anyone here anymore especially after your latest hissy fit blog shutdown. That was apparently done because you got highly offended that everyone here got annoyed that the Parts 2 and 3 blogs you had promised them for over a month, which were supposed to reveal all of your claimed new clues, had been suddenly jerked away from them. How dare they be annoyed with you about that! Who knows how many regular visitors to this blog dropped out after that latest shutdown? It looks like this blog is still struggling to build back the pre-shutdown momentum it had. One more shutdown might finally be the last permanent one!
John wrote "One of the results of all the information so far gleaned from the legend of Bessler’s wheel, has been an upsurge in spurious speculation. Numerology for instance..."
ReplyDeleteYou have to be careful about making comments like that, John. They will offend the many here who are SoS fans and don't consider the various numerological clues he's shown us to be "spurious". If it wasn't for him we never would have noticed that Bessler put a severed head into the Toys Page! Neither you nor anyone else ever noticed it before until SoS pointed it out to us.
Agree 22:40
ReplyDeleteLink to duscussion of severed head on toys page???
ReplyDeleteNo one seemed to notice that the "D" beside the axemen in close up was not regular and smooth indicating that precision was difficult in the woodcut at that scale.
Delete@ anon 03:53
DeleteSee SoS's post of 12 March 2023 at 04:54 near the bottom of this page:
https://johncollinsnews.blogspot.com/2023/03/sharing-information-part-one.html#comment-form
SoS (short for "Sayer of Sooths"), who specializes in numerology and symbology, brought that severed head image to everyone's attention. It was a bit of a surprise and everyone was wondering why Bessler would put something like that in with a group of children's toys.
I have always dismissed the vast majority of Ken B’s clues. I can also dismiss the ‘severed head’ clue, it’s just another Rorschach ink lot open to anyone’s interpretation.
ReplyDeleteI’m not trying to say anything other than what I believe is true. I didn’t remove the comment facility in a ‘hissy fit’, just trying to stem the flow of nonsense coming into what is for me, a reasonably serious discussion about Bessler.
I don’t see anyone commenting in favour of the pages and pages of clues I’ve deciphered successfully both here and on my other web sites, yet Ken and his cohort of disciples seem bent on spreading his disinformation in the widest possible way. So sad.
JC
There is no new clues in part one and old clues are discussed many times.
DeleteOkay, everyone, let me explain to you what is REALLY going on here!
DeleteFirst of all, there is definitely a severed head falling away from the "chopping block" on that bottom axmen toy on the Toys Page despite John dismissing it. Trying to deny it's there is ridiculous, imo, especially after you have viewed the high resolution image someone linked to. But, why would Bessler put something as disturbing as that there? There were some good possible reasons that have already been given, but I have what I think was the real reason.
That severed head was actually Bessler's way of WARNING anybody in the future who managed to successfully reverse engineer his secret wheel design and then, for whatever reason, refused to reveal it, that he would risk being executed for fraud as a result! This was a very real fear Bessler had and it had probably happened to other fraudsters of his day that he had heard about.
John acts like he never noticed that severed head before and that it's not real. That may be true as far as his conscious mind is concerned, but as he studied the Toys Page over the years, his unconscious mind would have been well aware of that severed head and the warning it was giving future Bessler wheel researchers. John, imo, actually believes that he is like the reincarnation of Bessler and destined to bring the secret of his wheels to the world. To strengthen that belief, John needs to copy the original Bessler's behavior as closely as possible. How does he do that? Just look at his history.
He gathers as much info about pm wheels and Bessler as he can and spends years trying to make a working copy of Bessler's wheel, he has many failures, and, only recently, announces that he finally has the "right" clues to make an exact copy of Bessler's wheel. He announces it mainly to the followers of this blog who represent the world at large to him. Everyone is excited by the news and awaits the disclosure of all of his new clues and the design they describe that will be so simple to understand that everyone will immediately acknowledge that it must be Bessler's wheel...what wonderful news! Notice how similar this is to the SAME statements about his wheels that were made by Bessler himself! John promises to release enough clues so that his final and correct design for Bessler's wheel can immediately be simmed to confirm it is Bessler's design. Everyone is overjoyed at this news. What happens then?
NOTHING as usual! Everyone here then gets annoyed and accuses him of fraud, just like Bessler was accused, and John quickly starts deleting the most painful of their comments, shuts down this blog, runs off to hide for a week or so, and broods over the angry reactions from everyone. In a sense, just like the original Bessler feared might happen to him, John has also been accused of fraud and verbally "executed" for it with a shower of angry comments. The emotional pain he feels is symbolic of what someone being decapitated for fraud in Bessler's time might briefly feel!
Imo, John is now locked into this bizarre pattern of behavior and will continue to repeat it on this blog for YEARS to come. The cycle of this behavior is actually already beginning in this very blog! It starts with him putting down the research of others as he's done in this blog. Then he progresses a few blogs later to bragging about all of the new clues he's found that prove he's finally found Bessler's design. Next, he promises to reveal all by such and such a date. As that date approaches the promise is repeated several times. Then...NOTHING! Time for angry responses to come flooding in and him to run off for a week to sulk.
Right now, it seems to me like it's taking him about three months to go through each of these bizarre self punishment cycles of his. Will he ever manage to break out of them and actually show us those new clues he claims to have? That's a good question. Maybe realizing how he's been acting here will help him do that. We can only hope it does.
Wow, anon 15:32, you can read me like a book! You are so clever you can actually read my mind, that is so spooky! Of course it’s utter rubbish yet again.
DeleteYou must have spent time dredging up all that hatred, bile and envy, putting it all down in your comment and on line and for what? Does it make you feel better, probably not, so you’ll doubtless attack me again. I’m not bothering to defend myself, you are incapable of seeing any other point of view. I wish you joy.
JC
@anon 15:32
DeleteThere could be some truth in what you say because I've also noticed a definite pattern to what happens on this blog. We get a lot of promises from John, he puts down others efforts especially those of Ken B, a revelation date is set, and then...disappointment once again.
I also sense that John really doesn't like SoS's occasional clue revelations here. Originally I thought it was because SoS keeps finding all of those clues that Bessler left in MT indicating that he used Y shape levers in his wheels and that, coincidentally, is also the same lever shape that is used in the design that Ken B found. But, I think his distaste for SoS might go deeper than that and it's not only because SoS is also a psychic fortune teller who reads Tarot cards. Maybe John is actually envious because SoS is so popular here? Maybe John thinks that since this is his blog, he should be more popular than another commenter like SoS?
But, if that's the case, then John should realize that the only reason SoS has so many fans here is because he actually SHOWS us something interesting every time he comments. When he says he has some new clues for us, he delivers them and in a way that makes them easy to understand because the math he uses is basically just simple arithmetic. Maybe John should try doing like SoS does for a change?
Someone in a recent past blog suggested that John reveal the current wheel design he thinks Bessler used and skip revealing all of his new clues at this point. Then let everyone evaluate the design and sim it and see how it does. Let them then provide him with some valuable feedback since he cannot sim his own design. I think that's what everyone wants to see rather than him just giving us piecemeal clues after which he gets angry if they get rejected. Somewhere in the Bible there is a verse that reads "There is wisdom in a multitude of counselors." John may dismiss the Bible as a bunch of fairy tales, but that does not mean that it doesn't contain any truths.
A couple of blogs ago Jason uploaded a drawing sent to him by a friend of his for a pm wheel and it created a bit of a stir as people commented on it. If John was to reveal his design, I think there would be tremendous interest in it and it would make an ever bigger stir. If it has any potential for being Bessler's design, everyone's feedback could actually help speed John on the way to finally turning it into a runner. His secrecy now could actually be delaying him from achieving that goal, but unfortunately he cannot see that at this time.
15:32 So we are not going to get final working clues.
Delete@CPK
DeleteNot likely because those "final working clues" we were supposed to see in Parts 2 and 3 may not even exist in a form he could show us with drawings. They're most likely just vague ideas floating around in his mind that he hopes will somehow result in him finding a working five mechanism wheel someday. However, he may currently actually have a few wheel design sketches, but we also will never see them unless through some miracle Fletcher manages to turn one of them into a runner for him. Meanwhile, he'll enjoy occasionally dropping hints here about how many amazing new clues he's found, how much progress he's making on his wheel, and how everyone will immediately realize it has to work and is Bessler's wheel once they see it. Just take all of that with a tiny grain of salt like I do.
I think he had something this time but he is suffering from besseler consciousness also where he not want to give it to world. JC must decide what to do next either Put all clues hidden for another 300 year or reveal them as soon he gets it.
DeleteJohn,
ReplyDeleteCwforshort here. For what it's worth I hope you are right. Let's just say that my own concept is incomplete at best. You have my support. Carry on my man and stop worrying about the politics of it all. My feeling is that whatever Bessler did it had to be akin to embedding "imbalance" whithin "balance" because otherwise the wheel would not be so easy to turn or neither self starting.
Hi CW, thanks for your support. I shall carry on in my own time. My life extremely hectic at present but things will get done and people will be satisfied eventually.
DeleteJC
John, there are many anonymous contributors here who are only too willing to get into pissing contests and stir you up if they can. Just for their entertainment. They will latch onto anything because they don't have a clue how a Bessler runners mechanics could work.
DeleteYou’re right, and anyone can look back at the huge numbers of clues I’ve deciphered and published, and wonder where all the clues that anyone else has published. My clues can help towards the solution, Numerology and all the other fringe subject can’t.
DeleteJC
John wrote: "My clues can help towards the solution, Numerology and all the other fringe subject can’t."
DeleteThat's only true for those who choose to ignore all of the new clues that SoS has already used his numerology analysis to find for us. Here's some of the ones I can recall off the top of my head (I have a file of them all which contains much more than this):
>>>Bessler's "Lucky Ratio Clue" that tells us exactly where the lever pivots were located inside the drums of Bessler's wheels.
>>>The Y shape of the levers Bessler used in his wheels confirmed by multiple clues in the MT drawings including recently the Toys Page. In MT10 he pointed out that the drawing of it provided by orffyre.com showing it as having 16 levers was wrong because the original one Bessler made shows only 15 levers. When you added 15 to MT's number of 10, you got 25 which represented the 25th letter of the alphabet or Y and the shape of the levers Bessler used. MT10 is the only drawing in MT in which Bessler tells us his wheels needed a specially shaped lever!
>>>explaining the importance of the number 55 to us. Its digits must be multiplied to get 25 which is another reference to the 25th letter of the alphabet or Y and the shape of the levers Bessler used.
>>>The only clue that uses both of the DT portraits placed side by side to show how the fingers of the hand holding the eyeglasses in the second portrait point to the bridge of Bessler's nose in the first portrait. That indicated Bessler wanted us to put those glasses on the bridge of the nose in the first portrait and closely study the eyes in that first portrait. It was also discovered that Bessler hid the shape of his levers in that face and the wig of that first portrait and Ken B even made a video showing how to find it! It's also Y shaped.
>>>His recent "Severed Head Clue" in the Toys Page that may indicate Bessler had a secret death wish.
SoS has also inspired many others here to take a fresh look at the Bessler drawings and try to apply his numerology analysis methods to them. Some of us are even finding impressive new clues of our own.
Now SoS has promised us that he's found some really amazing new clues in that double DT drawing of the Kassel wheel showing it lifting a weight outside the window and also swinging its huge pendulum. I like many here am looking forward to seeing what he has found for us and how much more we will learn about Bessler's wheels from it.
Mark
Give me one good reason to believe that Bessler left us clues and especially why?
DeleteRadio silence for 18 years...
No will, and for whom? Humanity?
It is difficult to take into account this lack of interest for such a discovery over such a long period of time
Nobody hid PI, he is everywhere...
Something is wrong in this story, the real discovery is not his wheel, but the reason of his silence.
THX4
IMO , some clues are subjective , some are interpretations , some are truly from Bessler own words expressed as given information or expressly pointing at something to be considered as clues.
DeleteI see no point personally arguing about what is suppose to be real clues and what is not ,it will not settle this , nor would it prove anything.
Like always its the scientific way that counts in the end , build it , prove it , and in hindsight the words/clues or fraud might become clear.
Thank you Mark for your quick rundown of the various clues and what some people think they mean. I’ll try to respond to them.
DeleteYou wrote, “That's only true for those who choose to ignore all of the new clues that SoS has already used his numerology analysis to find for us. Here's some of the ones I can recall off the top of my head (I have a file of them all which contains much more than this):
>>>Bessler's "Lucky Ratio Clue" that tells us exactly where the lever pivots were located inside the drums of Bessler's wheels.
JC - I know exactly where the lever pivots are and you don’t a “lucky ratio” to establish their positions.
>>>The Y shape of the levers Bessler used in his wheels confirmed by multiple clues in the MT drawings including recently the Toys Page. In MT10 he pointed out that the drawing of it provided by orffyre.com showing it as having 16 levers was wrong because the original one Bessler made shows only 15 levers. When you added 15 to MT's number of 10, you got 25 which represented the 25th letter of the alphabet or Y and the shape of the levers Bessler used. MT10 is the only drawing in MT in which Bessler tells us his wheels needed a specially shaped lever!
JC. No, no Y shaped necessary.
>>>explaining the importance of the number 55 to us. Its digits must be multiplied to get 25 which is another reference to the 25th letter of the alphabet or Y and the shape of the levers Bessler used.
JC - 55 means five segments with five weights, one per segment.
>>>The only clue that uses both of the DT portraits placed side by side to show how the fingers of the hand holding the eyeglasses in the second portrait point to the bridge of Bessler's nose in the first portrait. That indicated Bessler wanted us to put those glasses on the bridge of the nose in the first portrait and closely study the eyes in that first portrait. It was also discovered that Bessler hid the shape of his levers in that face and the wig of that first portrait and Ken B even made a video showing how to find it! It's also Y shaped.
JC - I think that the inclusion, in Bessler’s portrait, of the gourd, the book and the skull, “which represented “memento mori’” and means ‘remember that you have to die' is an artistic or symbolic trope acting as a reminder of the inevitability of death.The concept has its roots in the philosophers of classical antiquity and Christianity, and appeared in funerary art and architecture from the medieval period onwards.” So one portrait represents Bessler as a man of spiritual awareness, and the other as an academic, a scientist seeking new discoveries.
>>>His recent "Severed Head Clue" in the Toys Page that may indicate Bessler had a secret death wish.
SoS has also inspired many others here to take a fresh look at the Bessler drawings and try to apply his numerology analysis methods to them. Some of us are even finding impressive new clues of our own.
Now SoS has promised us that he's found some really amazing new clues in that double DT drawing of the Kassel wheel showing it lifting a weight outside the window and also swinging its huge pendulum. I like many here am looking forward to seeing what he has found for us and how much more we will learn about Bessler's wheels from it.
JC - the so-called ‘severed head’ is not a clue at all and his alterations to the accidental ink smudge claiming to show one eye is pure imagination. The subsequent interpretation is entirely based on his doctored image and not worth discussing. It is so full of misinformation based on a totally false perception I suspect deliberate invention for self-gratification.
JC
JC writes "The subsequent interpretation is entirely based on his doctored image and not worth discussing."
DeleteWtf! Now you are accusing SoS of "doctoring" the severed head clue?! NO! Someone else actually went to the original digital image of the Toys Page at the Kassel University Library collection and gave us a link to it. There were no alterations done by SoS or anyone else. There is definitely a profile silhouette of a severed head below the landed axe blade of the lower toy's right side axeman. The guy who posted the image for us admitted that he did add some labels to help people make out the parts of the head, but that was all. There were no changes to the original image. Do you even read the comments on these blogs anymore before you go off putting down the research of others? Maybe no since you think you already know it all!
Here's the link that guy gave to the original severed head SoS found in the Toys Page. People coming here can decide for themselves if they see the severed head in it or not. I do and it's as plain as day to me. It was the little white spot "eye" on the head that convinced me the most. Maybe you need to get a new prescription for your eyeglasses?
https://i.postimg.cc/J7XfxQps/toy-page-severed-head.jpg
Just check this image and tell me the so-called head has not been doctored
Deletehttps://postimg.cc/hzd7r4ZK
JC
@JC It wasn't doctored. SoS did add some tiny white lines to show where the head's features were located and he said he did that in his post. He wasn't trying to deceive anyone as you imply. He also gave an enlarged low resolution image of the head in the box on the right side without the lines.
DeleteI also see that severed head in the original image that anon 14:25 reposted for us above. But I don't think those spots on the corners of the ax blade are skin as the original poster had been labeled them.
If you chop someone's head off with a wide ax blade, then as the blade's edge slices its way through the back of his neck, blood gushing out of his head's jugular veins would tend to squirt out nearer the corners of the blade and coat them instead of in the center of the blade. There's no blood there because that center part cuts through the bones of the neck where there are no major blood vessels.
Bessler had some training in anatomy and medicine and I think he used that knowledge when engraving the ax blade into the Toys Page drawing to make it accurately show what would happen if it was used for a decapitation. I wonder if he ever witnessed a real execution by decapitation? I've never seen even a video of one, but I can imagine it must be pretty horrible...especially if the blade does not completely sever the head with the first blow! Come to think of it, wasn't there some English woman who needed a dozen or more chops to finally cut off her head?! She must have one tough neck!
I’ve got to say, you tell a good story anon 19:05, I realised the picture was altered to demonstrate his point, and he did a good job, but I still think it was nothing to do with a severed head. Why would Bessler not do a better job, no one to my knowledge has ever seen the head before. Why would he think it important to include it? Why bother to make it so difficult to see and interpret that no one in more than 300 years has queried it? Why not draw a proper head showing droplets of blood or gushing streams of it?
DeleteI don’t accept it but you will doubtless continue to believe it.
JC
anon 19:05 asked: "...wasn't there some English woman who needed a dozen or more chops to finally cut off her head?!"
DeleteHer executioner probably got falling down drunk the night before and forgot to sharpen his axe's blade so it was too dull to behead her with a single hit the next day. Then again, maybe they allowed her to wear a fancy necklace and the metal in it prevented the blade's edge from making a clean cut? Either way, it sounds like one sloppy execution. Hopefully, the first impact knocked her out so she didn't feel the others.
I wonder what her crime was? Maybe her rich husband found her cheating on him with his stable hand? If so that guy's neck would have been on the chopping block next if they managed to catch him. He probably jumped on the nearest horse and took off for the hills like a rocket when he found out his master wanted to have a little "chat" with him!
John asked "Why not draw a proper head showing droplets of blood or gushing streams of it?"
DeleteI think Bessler's severed head image was meant to show only the instant immediately after complete decapitation as the severed head was just beginning to fall away from the neck. At that instant no more blood would be coming out of a head because there would be no blood pressure left in it. As the initial cut had been taking place but not yet completed, however, there would still have been enough pressure present in the head, especially if the neck's two carotid arteries had not both been completely severed yet, to squirt some blood out of the head's two severed jugular veins and onto the front facing surface of the axe blade as anon 19:05 suggests. There would, however, be blood constantly gushing out in pulses from the two carotid arteries in the neck of the victim's body which was still resting on the chopping block, but their flows would be somewhat blocked by the back surface of the axe blade and it would take some more time for enough blood to accumulate on the top of the chopping block and begin running off of its sides.
If Bessler was trying to hide that severed head in the Toys Page as most here now think he was, then he would not have called attention to it with a lot of blood droplets and gushing streams. He wanted that image to only be discovered years later and after he was dead and gone possibly by being executed similarly for fraud. He obviously did an excellent job of doing that since it took us almost 300 years to find it. Now I'm wondering how many other little surprises he has in store for us that we haven't discovered yet!
In response to anon 20.37 comment about executions -
DeleteExecution of Mary, Queen of Scots 1587 - took three blows of the axe.
Margaret Pole, Countess of Salisbury 1541 - An inexperienced executioner reportedly hacked at her a total of 11 times before finally decapitating her.
JC
Reads and looks very similar to pareidolia.
DeletePareidolia (/ˌpærɪˈdoʊliə, ˌpɛər-/;[1] also US: /ˌpɛəraɪ-/)[2] is the tendency for perception to impose a meaningful interpretation on a nebulous stimulus, usually visual, so that one sees an object, pattern, or meaning where there is none.
DeleteCommon examples are perceived images of animals, faces, or objects in cloud formations, seeing faces in inanimate objects, or lunar pareidolia like the Man in the Moon or the Moon rabbit. The concept of pareidolia may extend to include hidden messages in recorded music played in reverse or at higher- or lower-than-normal speeds, and hearing voices (mainly indistinct) or music in random noise, such as that produced by air conditioners or fans.
Pareidolia can cause people to interpret random images, or patterns of light and shadow, as faces.[10] A 2009 magnetoencephalography study found that objects perceived as faces evoke an early (165 ms) activation of the fusiform face area at a time and location similar to that evoked by faces, whereas other common objects do not evoke such activation. This activation is similar to a slightly faster time (130 ms) that is seen for images of real faces. The authors suggest that face perception evoked by face-like objects is a relatively early process, and not a late cognitive reinterpretation phenomenon.[11] A functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) study in 2011 similarly showed that repeated presentation of novel visual shapes that were interpreted as meaningful led to decreased fMRI responses for real objects. These results indicate that the interpretation of ambiguous stimuli depends upon processes similar to those elicited by known objects.[12]
These studies help to explain why people generally identify a few lines and a circle as a "face" so quickly and without hesitation. Cognitive processes are activated by the "face-like" object which alerts the observer to both the emotional state and identity of the subject, even before the conscious mind begins to process or even receive the information. A "stick figure face", despite its simplicity, can convey mood information, and be drawn to indicate emotions such as happiness or anger. This robust and subtle capability is hypothesized to be the result of natural selection favoring people most able to quickly identify the mental state, for example, of threatening people, thus providing the individual an opportunity to flee or attack pre-emptively.[13] This ability, though highly specialized for the processing and recognition of human emotions, also functions to determine the demeanor of wildlife.
Examples include the "face on mars"
Here's what can happen when an angry and possessive rich guy finally catches up with his unfaithful wife or mistress!
Deletehttps://i.giphy.com/media/3oAt215trVwrxhozza/giphy.webp
CAUTION!!! Do NOT view this video if you are prone to diarrhea, fainting, heart attacks, nightmares, strokes, or vomiting! You have been warned!
Shemp
Thanks, Shemp. It looks like an effective way to "cut down" on the high cost of divorces nowadays! Excuse me now...I have to go vomit up my breakfast!
DeleteWe sharks have a quicker and less protein wasting solution to the high cost of divorce. We believe in "recycling" cheating partners. No axes involved...just teeth, VERY sharp teeth!
DeleteStarved Shark
That severed head image that SoS found is a perfect example of what is referred to as "suicidal ideation" in psychiatry and it is considered to be one of the possible serious symptoms of clinical depression. Bessler suffered from bouts of deep depression which they used to call "melancholia" in his day and that illness can greatly increase a patient's chance of committing suicide or arranging for others to kill him. Although the image does not show Bessler actually killing himself, even suggesting others might do it to him is still considered to be suicidal.
DeleteFor anyone who still thinks that image is not a severed head and is just some pareidolia, then exactly what else do you think it could be? An engraving error? Unlikely, imo.
Well here is my opinion , i uploaded an image where i highlighted in colors what i am going to describe as my opinion on it.
Deletehttp://postimg.cc/SnXL4cHs
The yellow base piece on the bottom of the anvils for the top figures , are to the left and right of the center red piece , are clearly suppose to be identical mirrored pieces as anvils usually have bases which are symmetrical.
Now given the clear image of above , i assume and conclude that the bottom figure's anvil base , was a woodblock carve error or a mispositioned/misaligned print , the green base part is either to much to the left , or the blue part is either to much to the right , my conclusion is the blue must have been centered in the green , and the complete base was suppose to be centered with its top piece too, but ended up misaligned.
I can see the similarities between the top figure print and the bottom figure print , which i would say were suppose to be similar anyway.
I have my opinion , others have theirs , in this case i prefer mine.
JB wrote "...i assume and conclude that the bottom figure's anvil base , was a woodblock carve error or a mispositioned/misaligned print..."
DeleteIf you assume that the bottom piece is an anvil and not a wooden chopping block like SoS claims it is, then you must believe that the two bottom toy men are swinging hammers instead of axes because no one would be hitting a piece of metal on a steel anvil with an axe.
Also, how do you explain away that little white "eye" spot that others see in what they claim is a severed head? Another "woodblock carve error"? To produce that spot on the final printed image, Bessler would have had to deliberately press the point of a small awl-like metal engraving tool into the raised wood of the block there.
That mentioning of the woman who needed 11 chops to finally lop her head off made my skin crawl! That's one of the benefits of that guillotine machine they invented and used during the French Revolution of the 1790's. It gave a nice, quick, and completely severed head every time. No do over's needed. For the rich, they even put a nice comfy little pillow at the bottom of the basket that caught their falling heads so they wouldn't bruise their faces on impact. How considerate!
DeleteUnfortunately, the medical doctor who invented the machine eventually got to try it out personally when he ran afoul of the new revolutionary government in France. I'm sure he was very proud of how efficiently it worked as it was slicing off his head!
@Mark
DeleteYou forgot to mention SoS's excellent analysis of MT 13. All I saw when I looked at it was another MT nonrunner. SoS saw a smiling face which he says was Bessler's way of telling us that if we worked with a design like it, then we would become very happy and smile because it would lead to a runner.
SoS also saw the head of Jesus in MT 13 including his crown of thorns, the year of his crucifixion which was 33 AD, the solar eclipse that began at noon on the day of the crucifixion which was represented by the little black wheel B at 12 o'clock in the drawing, and a lot more.
SoS said that particular MT drawing contains more religious numerology and symbolism than any other drawing ever done by Bessler. Was that just a coincidence? Can't be. Bessler wouldn't have loaded that one drawing up with so much if he didn't want to draw attention to it for a very important reason. That reason being, as SoS claims, it was the last wheel design Bessler worked on before he figured out how to modify it and turn it into his first runner.
I think that we should give SoS the title of "SoS the Amazing" in honor of his many amazing contributions to this blog over the years.
It’s not a smiling face - unless you want it to be, or need it!
DeleteIt’s not meant to be Jesus or any of the other stuff!.
The whole of MT was drafted long after he found the solution to the wheel, and MT 13 has absolutely no connection with his successful wheel.
I have concerns for SoS, I fear he’s heading for a breakdown. Perhaps his sobriquet ‘SoS’ is a cry for help?
JC
Anonymous25 March 2023 at 23:38 wrote:
Delete"JB wrote "...i assume and conclude that the bottom figure's anvil base , was a woodblock carve error or a mispositioned/misaligned print..."
If you assume that the bottom piece is an anvil and not a wooden chopping block like SoS claims it is, then you must believe that the two bottom toy men are swinging hammers instead of axes because no one would be hitting a piece of metal on a steel anvil with an axe.
Also, how do you explain away that little white "eye" spot that others see in what they claim is a severed head? Another "woodblock carve error"? To produce that spot on the final printed image, Bessler would have had to deliberately press the point of a small awl-like metal engraving tool into the raised wood of the block there."
Its your time to shine , show me the lines in the original image that is drawn and added in his image .
http://postimg.cc/zy9KR5JF
@JC i believe SoS is just another sign off Ken.B uses , if someone praises SoS clues that persons praises Ken.B , and in doing so Ken.B makes the point people choose to say he's wrong because of the name used to comment instead of the content of the comment .
DeleteIts clear SoS is saying and pointing to the same things Ken.B does , and the supporters of SoS seem to also be Ken.B himself , it becomes very clear when you anger Ken.B his sock puppets or alternative personalities stop commenting while Ken.B is busy typing loooong boring replys.
Just a bunch of sock puppets .
I agree JB. You’re absolutely right about the misaligned print.
DeleteTo believe that the random dot is an intentional white eye is beyond ludicrous.
Ken chickened out of responding to my challenge to sign in with his real name, but I’m not surprised, it would give his game away.
JC
JC wrote "The whole of MT was drafted long after he found the solution to the wheel, and MT 13 has absolutely no connection with his successful wheel."
DeleteWith the exception of the Toys Page, all of the drawings in MT would have been created before the year 1717 because those drawings are actually mentioned in AP which was published in 1717. Since he began work on AP in 1716, the MT drawings would have been completed prior to that and in late 1715 at the latest.
The idea of MT 13 being "drafted long after" Bessler's discovery of a working prototype design in late 1711 (which is when Ken B claims it actually happened) is not accurate. From late 1711 to late 1715 is only four years (and would be even less if the drawings were completed earlier than late 1715). How Bessler discovered his working prototype design was still fresh in his mind along with his gratitude to God for having allowed him to make the discovery. That is the reason for all of the religious symbolism in MT 13 which anon 05:27 pointed out.
If there's anyone around here that we have to worry about having a "breakdown", I don't think it is SoS. More likely it would be JC as he struggles to find a working pentagon wheel so he can finally claim success and Fletcher just keeps dismissing one design drawing of his after another because his sims show it's yet another unworkable "dead duck"! Then we can all look forward to the entertainment of seeing how JC tries to convince us that his "99% solution", lacking both a working sim and an actual wheel, is somehow equivalent to a 100% solution. No doubt, trying to do that will push his creative ability to its very limit! Unfortunately, most here will consider his 99% solution to actually be a 0% solution.
Also, as far as the severed head clue is concerned, I also believe that it was supposed to be a severed head just as SoS claims. Bessler didn't make an engraving error when he did the portion under the anvil in the top hammermen toy and there's no reason to believe his hands suddenly got shaky when he was working on the part at the bottom of the axmen toy.
He made the Toys Page after he had been arrested and had become totally paranoid from the experience. He was so afraid that he destroyed all of his notes and any wheels he had at his home. The Toys Page was intended as a substitute for the destroyed pages of drawings from MT showing his pm wheels' secret mechanisms. He knew that if he was accused of fraud and the count wasn't around to vouch for and protect him and he couldn't prove his innocence somehow without revealing his secret, he might well be convicted of fraud and then executed by beheading because it had happened to others convicted of fraud before him. Fear of that possibility is the real reason for that severed head and not some engraving mistake.
Anon 05:27 wrote: "...we should give SoS the title of "SoS the Amazing" in honor of his many amazing contributions to this blog over the years."
DeleteI'll drink to that...actually I'll drink to anything if someone else pays for my drink!
Yes, so with my filled glass (paid for by someone else) raised high, I now loudly proclaim...All hail "SoS the Amazing"! May he continue to supply us with new clues in the years to come...and, hopefully, may he also motivate JC to finally start showing us his claimed new clues so he can prove to everyone here that he actually has any!
Look at them avoid it.
DeleteAs usual anon 15:23, You’re wrong. The drawings are not mentioned in AP, but maybe you are referring to the “Great Treatise” he offered the Czar of Russia, but that wasn’t in AP, and it was intended to be list of all the technical equipment used by the various trades.
DeleteThe file known as “Maschinen Tractate” or MT was a loose collection of drawings which were only found after his death. It is believed to have formed the basis for teaching his apprentices at his new school. It wasn’t begun until after he left Kassel. The wood blocks were to enable Bessler to print copies to be handed out to his pupils for discussion. I named it Maschinen Tractate because at the time I was not aware of the box of files comprising the MT, and thought it was the “Great Treatis”.
BTW, Ken’s claim that Bessler discovered a working prototype in late 1711 is pure speculation as there is no documentary evidence supporting this statement. There is however evidence that he married his wife in 1711, but that was after he had discovered the secret, visited two ill patients and the visited his future father-in-law and negotiated a dowry and agreed to take the troublesome maid away with him. So no not in late 1711. Please stop speculating as what you say is factual, it’s not, most it is just Ken speculating!
JC
JC wrote "There is however evidence that he married his wife in 1711, but that was after he had discovered the secret..."
DeleteIf Bessler married his wife in 1711 and did so AFTER he discovered the secret to making a pm wheel, then Ken B is RIGHT when he claims that Bessler developed his 3 foot prototype wheel in 1711. YOU have just admitted that Ken B is right! However, it was only in the first half of 1712, after he had gotten his honeymoon out of the way that Bessler was able to settle down and finally concentrate on the construction of his second Gera wheel, the 4.5 foot diameter one, which he publicly demonstrated on June 6th in that town.
No, that's not what AP says. In it B. says the 1712 Gera wheel was the first runner 'achieved'. This has been discussed many times. In 1711 he received enlightenment and knew why all the others had failed. There is zero proof he 'achieved' an earlier 3 foot Gera RUNNER.
DeleteAP .. "Soon I was free of cares and greatly comforted by a new enlightenment. For I put together the very first device which could revolve a little. I saw that I had finally made the right choice, and why the earlier ones had been wrong."
AP .. "So it was that at the house of the Richters (On the hill called Nickelsberg) in the year 1712 I ACHIEVED the discovery of the wondrous device that has amazed the world so much. My industry was spared the curses which accompanied the EARLIER efforts."
JC once again misinformed us when he wrote:
Delete"The drawings are not mentioned in AP, but maybe you are referring to the “Great Treatise” he offered the Czar of Russia, but that wasn’t in AP..."
However, IN AP, page 263 we read:
"Soon I began to grind out a book full of all sorts of things, including designs for rotating wheels. These incorporated various devices and pulleys that had occurred to me from time to time, including the notion that a flow of mercury could enable a wheel to rotate."
This is an obvious reference to the MT drawings and we see in those drawings that the first pulley appears in MT 20 and use of mercury in MT 130.
Anon 00:40 then quotes from AP:
"So it was that at the house of the Richters (On the hill called Nickelsberg) in the year 1712 I achieved the discovery of the wondrous device that has amazed the world so much."
That quote refers to his construction of a 4.5 foot diameter wheel which he went on to demonstrate in Gera on June 6th, 1712. Bessler wanted people to think that was his first wheel because it could do some small amount of work. But, earlier in 1711 he had constructed a 3 foot diameter prototype wheel, as was discussed in a past blog, that was only a toy that could barely keep itself in motion.
It was meant for brief tabletop demonstrations and not large public demonstrations that would require it to lift weights of several pounds. But, that prototype wheel contained all of the basic components that would be found in all of his later, larger, and more powerful wheels. Ken B claims Bessler kept it with him as he traveled from town to town so that he would always have something to show potential buyers of his invention during the time after he had destroyed a previous larger wheel, but before he had constructed his next larger wheel. That small 3 foot diameter wheel would have also been destroyed after his arrest along with the illustrations from MT that showed the details of the mechanics of his pm wheels.
More speculation from Ken, there is no documentary evidence of the 3 foot prototype wheel.
DeleteThe book you referred to was lost overboard at sea long before,as you know perfectly well.
You’re changing your own words Ken, you said he invented the wheel LATE 1711, but it was before all the things I described. Why do you insist on changing the record to fit your own speculations.
JC
John, you just said that Bessler discovered his secret of pm before he married his wife in 1711. But, how did he "discover" it? Was it just in his head? In a drawing? Or with an actual wheel he was working on like maybe that MT13 design SoS keeps mentioning?
DeleteSince Bessler had a long history of building useless wheels and would have been trying to keep the cost of constructing them down, I don't see any reason why Ken B claiming he had a 3 foot prototype could be wrong. As matter of fact every wheel I've worked on was about 3 feet in diameter or less because it kept my costs down and allowed me to put it on my shop bench so I didn't have to strain my back bending down to put parts into it.
I think Ken B is right when he says Bessler had a working 3 foot wheel prior to the public showing of his 4.5 foot Gera wheel. Ken's claim makes perfect sense to me whether you are aware of any "documentary evidence" for it or not. IIRC, years ago you were claiming Bessler never attached pendulums to his wheels axles even though there is much evidence that he did. Maybe you were then "changing the record to fit your own speculations"?
Anon 14:57, or Ken as I like to refer to him. What possible reason would I suggest that he just had an idea but no machine when he dropped everything to go to see his future father-in -law to discuss marriage? Don’t you read an of the information I posted in my books and blog over many years. I’m not going to bother to refute such a stupid comment!
DeleteKen may claim a three foot wheel existed as a prototype but there is no evidence it existed other than in his head, which is full of imaginary facts.
I continue to state that there is no evidence that the pendulums depicted on the outside of the wheel ever existed - fact!
JC
"I continue to state that there is no evidence that the pendulums depicted on the outside of the wheel ever existed - fact!"
DeleteOMG! Almost every drawing made by Bessler of his wheels shows them causing twin pendulums attached to their axles to be made to swing by their turning axles. JC wants you to believe that Bessler spend all that time engraving those pendulums for the drawings to be put into his books even though they didn't exist! Trust your EYES not JC's nonsense! IIRC, a few years he was also trying to convince everyone here that the Kassel wheel never powered that Archimedes water pump! Again, he wants you to listen to his nonsense instead of trusting your own eyes. Don't fall for his delusions!
One day it will all become clear to you anon 16:46.
DeleteAlso I have never said that the Kassel wheel didn’t power the Archimedes pump. What utter bilge you write…..Ken!
JC
@anon 16:46
DeleteI can just imagine this scene taking place at Weissenstein Castle one day in 1719:
Bessler: "Here's that signed copy of DT that you wanted, your highness. Thanks for paying to print up a thousand copies of it to help me educate people about my incredible invention."
Karl (as he flips through it): "Thanks...hmm, the drawings printed very nicely...I certainly got my money's worth. HEY! I don't recall seeing that big pendulum attached to that 12 foot wheel I paid for that you put on the top floor of my castle."
Bessler: "Oh, that...that's a pendulum that I was thinking of making someday and attaching to the wheel since I think it could work."
Karl: "You were only 'thinking' of making it someday? I guess you would make it just a larger version of the ones you put on your Merseburg wheel?"
Bessler: "Actually, your highness, I never got around to making those either and only planned to make them someday. But, I decided to include them in the drawing of that Merseburg wheel that I put into DT anyway."
Karl: "Are you completely crazy?! You're putting items into the drawings in your most important book about your wheels that don't exist yet? Once your critics find out about that they will accuse you of falsely claiming you have them now. They will then use that to further undermine your credibility and make it even harder for you to find a buyer!"
Bessler: "Gee, I didn't think of that, your highness. Maybe I should just redo all of the drawings to remove the pendulums and I will then send it off to the printer to make a second edition of one thousand copies. That will double the cost, but you're so rich you can easily afford it."
Karl: "Too late! I've already handled out dozens of advance copies of DT to all my rich friends. They will think I'm an idiot for doing something like that. Your stupidity could ruin my reputation as well as yours!"
Bessler: "I'm sorry about that, your highness. I wasn't thinking right at the time. You know how depressed and paranoid I can get at times especially after I've had too much of the wine from your personal wine cellar."
Karl: "Your greatest ever pm wheel's construction has cost me a small fortune and now almost two years later no one thinks it's worth the ridiculous price you are asking for it! My mistresses are already mocking me for supporting you and think I should have spent that money on them since they've decided they need all new furniture for their rooms and wardrobes of new ball gowns as well. Johann, I want you, your annoying kids, and all of your mooching relatives out of my castle as soon as possible! And leave that damn wheel of yours here so I can have my servants chop it up and use it for firewood!"
FFS, no witness (not one) ever recorded seeing physical pendulums (single or dual), as EVERYONE knows - fact.
DeleteWhy would they be included in the engravings? Three potential reasons.
1. as per the stampers and water screw to show the wheel doing work, like driving a pendulum time piece that didn't need winding or weights lifted.
2. to partially regulate the wheel speed, which is often suggested.
3. their illustrative presence symbolically points to some internal aspect of his PM mechanics, he felt important enough to include for posterity.
Funny satire of the "no pendulum theory" you came up with there, anon 18:36. It reads like something that would be worthy of our Shemp!
DeleteI doubt if Bessler would have shown those pendulums in his drawings if he didn't use them sometimes. I go along with those that think they were used to reduce the maximum speed of a free running wheel so it could run longer before needing servicing. They are not mentioned by anyone? Proves nothing because, as they say "lack of evidence is not evidence of lack". Maybe they were removed during official tests or they are mentioned somewhere only we haven't located and translated those sources yet. Everyone seems to think we now have all of the important information about Bessler's wheels. Very doubtful. There could be a lot of private correspondence that's been lost forever and mentioned his wheels swinging those pendulums around that we will never get to see.
As for that "Severed Head" clue SoS found, I also think it's supposed to be a head dropping away from a chopping block after beheading, but it's a very easy to miss clue. I'm not sure why he would do something like that because I see no relevance to his wheels. Maybe he was trying to tell everyone that after they spent enough years trying to figure out how his wheels worked without the slightest bit of success, they'd wish someone would come along and put them out of their misery by chopping their heads off?!
I'm surprised that Bessler would put something like that in with a bunch of kids' toys. Maybe he justified doing that because he knew young kids would not be seeing those MT drawings? Still, it doesn't seem like the kind of thing that a devoutly Christian man like Bessler would do. But then again depression and paranoia can make people do some really strange things at times like for example axing to pieces a 12 foot wheel that took months of strenuous effort to build!
@anon 18:36
DeleteThe nicest compliment I can pay your little play is to say that I wish I had come up with it!
Shemp
Yeee...beee...beee...beee...beee...
It seems as though none of you understand what the hidden images revealed and how they are all connected on the toy page. It tells a funny little story meant for those who know how to play the game. Maddening isn't it and very very dark of course he did tell you it was written in lamp black! Or did that just slip by you mwahaha!
Delete"Lampblack is a form of carbon. You can think of it as something like very, very finely divided charcoal. Because it is so incredibly fine, a small amount covers a large area giving an intense black color. It forms the basis of the best traditional black inks and has been used to many other ends from shoe polish to blackening gun sights."
DeleteSource: https://paleotechnics.wordpress.com
"Lampblack, the oldest known black pigment, is produced by burning oil, usually coal-tar creosote, in shallow pans, in a furnace with the draft regulated to give a heavy smoke cloud."
Source: https://www.britannica.com
"Lamp black is a simple genuine pigment made of carbon black. A lightfast, permanent and opaque pigment, it has been used since prehistoric times, making it one of the oldest pigments still used today. Lamp black was commonly used in Egyptian tombs and murals as an alternative to charcoal, which was considered less pure and dense."
Source: https://www.winsornewton.com
Wow stating the obvious that'll get you far 4:52
DeleteAlright, let me get some of the honorary titles around here straight.
DeleteNow we have "SoS the Amazing" because of all of the numerology clues he found for us in MT and IIRC Ken B has been referred to as "Ken the Great" because of all of the posts he made on bwf years ago and also his huge Bessler wheel book. But, what about John? He's got some things to brag about too like this long running blog and the translations of Bessler's writings that he published. Surely he also deserves some sort of honorary title.
Unfortunately, because of his recent Parts 2 and 3 new clues revelation fiasco followed by yet another blog shutdown, I think many here would suggest that for the time being he be called "John the Great Disappointer"! But, nothing is chiseled into granite and that can always be changed in the future if he actually starts giving us anything more here than broken promises and teasing hints about what he claims to have and plans to do.
However, I do agree that SoS's new title is well deserved because as someone previously said, he never disappoints us. He always shows up here with something interesting and even controversial like his recently found and somewhat disturbing severed head clue. I've looked at that toy page drawing for years and never noticed it. Thanks, SoS, for using your skills to finally open our eyes so we could see it too!
@anon18:48
DeleteI think that there are a few others around here that also deserve to be honored with titles. How about "Shemp the Reincarnated Stooge" and "SG the Top Guru"? Both help to enrich this blog with their occasional bizarre babblings. They provide the spice in the stew of ideas around here. Stew without some spice can be very bland.
You want to hear something really funny I know that John has the basis of the design unfortunately his subconscious is not going to share it with his conscious mind. There are many here in the same predicament! That reactive Part of Yourself can be persuaded to give up information. I hope you all one day have the opportunity to experience that breakthrough and in that moment you will realize what inhibited you from achieving it earlier and why!
Delete@SG
DeleteWow...that makes a lot of sense! Yes, JC's mind is actually split into two parts like those of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde in that classic novel. The evil Mr. Hyde part already knows the solution to Bessler's pm wheels, but won't share it with JC's kindly Dr. Jekyll part. Maybe there's some kind of magic serum or meditation method JC can use that will force his Mr. Hyde part to finally give his Dr. Jekyll part the secret?
I get my particular "magic serum" from my local liquor store, but it's not working too well. I'll try using a more potent form of it in the future. I've got to do something to finally get that pm secret away from that damn stubborn evil Mr. Hyde part of my mind.
Thanks for another one of your gifted insights, SG! No wonder they are calling you "SG the Top Guru" on this blog!
Guardate la pagina dei giocattoli qui sotto
ReplyDeletehttps://orka.bibliothek.uni-kassel.de/viewer/image/1345798641226/112/
se andate sul rettangolo in alto e aumentate l'ingrandimento con la rotellina del Mauser si intravvedono dei disegni tra le righe con frecce disegnate in su e in giù e sembrano mostrare un meccanismo apparentemente incomprensibile, a che scopo saranno stati inseriti, che ne pensate ?.
I dont see what you see , but i have done so many searches for hidden things in MT too , i can show you what could possibly be Bessler finger prints in some pages , or just someone's oily grubby hands.
DeleteOne is on the back of the toy page , look in the area where the box would have been .
https://orka.bibliothek.uni-kassel.de/viewer/image/1345798641226/113/#topDocAnchor
Hi John! I see you are still working on the wheel. Is there any progress?
ReplyDeleteHello yellow, long time no see! Yes I’m back working on my wheel and yes progress has been swift, but I’m not revealing anything until it’s finished.
DeleteJC
It's great to hear there's progress, John. Last week, my friends asked me to prepare a presentation on an interesting topic that I chose. So I told the story of Bessler :D Everyone liked it a lot:D
DeleteAnd how long will it takes to be finished?
Delete@CPK
DeleteThat depends upon your definition of "finished". In JC's vocabulary, however, that is the only word which has no real definition when it comes to B's wheels. Even he does not know what it might mean so how could he possibly tell you?
I believe I meant finished and working. There that wasn’t so difficult now, was it?
DeleteJC
I forgot how toxic the comment section here is. You write something then some anon just writes a hate message immediately... Good luck John. Hope you'll be the one who will conquer the three-hundred-year quest.
Delete"Working" is yet another word many pm wheel builders use that differs from how most people usually use it.
DeleteFor those pm wheel builders, "working" describes a current NONrunner that can ALMOST complete a single turn after starting from rest, but which they are absolutely certain will SOON be able to do so AFTER they have made just a FEW more minor adjustments to it.
And, after all of those minor adjustments have been made, they will still consider the resulting NONrunner to be a "working" pm wheel. This is especially so if the wheel goes from, say, making 90% of a full turn to making 91% of a full turn. Surely, they think, the next few minor adjustments will finally make it complete 100+% of a full turn. Once that happens, there is no reason why it won't keep right on turning forever!
Many of them have had such "working" pm wheels for years, even occasionally decades!
All of you cynical types out there will eventually be forced to eat huge servings of humble pie when John finally and boldly reveals his 99% solution to a stunned world! Then you'll all be sorry for ever doubting him. I eagerly look forward to that day...or year...or decade!
DeleteShemp
How true Shemp, I hope it’s not years or decades, I’m not sure I’ll be around that long!
DeleteJC
The external were there as a provision because if there is no load the wheel would tend to over run itself. They were needed purely as speed limiters.
ReplyDeleteI don't think one of Bessler's wheels could "overrun itself" if it was running freely.
DeleteAs a wheel accelerated, the increasing CF acting on its swinging weights must have messed up the complete swings of some of the ascending side levers and, as a result, the offset COG on the descending side of a wheel was slowly drawn back toward the center of the axle. That caused the wheel's torque to steadily decrease until a point was reached where it exactly matched the aerodynamic and bearing drag acting on the wheel's various parts. At that point the wheel's speed became constant. The wheel could not then over speed because, if it did, the increasing drag would then exceed the further reduced torque and immediately slow the wheel down a little.
But, as soon as an outside machine to be powered was attached to the wheel's axle, its speed would decrease along with the CF acting on its weights and their COG would then move away from the axle and back onto the wheel's descending side to increase torque until it exactly matched that needed to power the machine. Of course, if the power the machine needed was too great, the wheel would decelerate to a stop. That could also be quickly done by Bessler's assistant somehow applying drag to the axle.
I'm wondering how he did that since he was a small man and for the 12 foot diameter Merseburg wheel the axle would have been about seven feet above the floor. Maybe he threw a leather strap over the rotating axle above his head and then grabbed onto both of its ends and put his full weight on it? A very dangerous maneuver, imo, if the strap suddenly stopped slipping and wrapped itself around the axle. If that happened, he would have a nice little ride unless he let go in time. Or, maybe he just put on thick leather gloves and applied drag to the rotating drum's rim? Hopefully some protruding nail didn't come along and snag one of the gloves! If so, then he'd have to quickly slip his hand out of the glove or he would have went for another nice ride.
Unfortunately, there is so much we still do not know about Bessler's wheels.
I think that’s a good summation anon 15::20. Several witnesses commented on the evenness of the wheel’s rotation.
DeleteJC
@anon 15:20
DeleteI agree with what you wrote and I do recall reading how Bessler had a lightweight assistant that would do the braking on his Merseburg wheel for him. But, that wheel only had a mass of about 500 pounds or so. The Kassel wheel was probably double that and about 1,000 pounds or so and that would make it twice a difficult to quickly brake using simple drag from a small man's body weight on its axle or rim.
But, I also recall reading that someone tried hanging on the rim of the Kassel wheel and it actually lifted him several feet into the air as the drum rapidly decelerated to a stop. Maybe Bessler kept his same little helper from Merseburg with him (Wagner described him as "a weakling who together with his leather waistcoat and blue apron does not weigh a hundredweight") when he moved into Weissenstein Castle and that chap would grab the Kassel wheel's drum rim at its full speed and then ride it up almost to the ceiling when it stopped and would then slowly back rotate and lower him safely to the floor again at which point he could let go of the rim?
With enough practice something like that could be have been done with little danger to the assistant and it would have been a dramatic demonstration of the wheel's power. But, it wasn't constant power and just a display of how much rotational kinetic energy could accumulate in the Kassel wheel when it was allowed to run freely.
I wonder how much Bessler paid his little assistant when he had to act like a monkey to quickly stop one of those big 12 foot diameter wheels?
jason
"awould then slowly bck rotate"
DeleteCan anyone confirm this statement in the text exactly, go back.
Was the kassel wheel unidirectional?
THX4
Unlike my response to anon 15:20, Jason AKA Ken B, is unworthy of a dignified response. Bessler’s so-called “light weigh assistant” was his brother and he wasn’t a light weight. There is so much wrong with the contents of Jason’s comment that I can’t be bothered to correct it. Just ignore it THX4
DeleteJC
I’m trying hard to resist closing comments all together, or simply deleting everything that is inaccurate or highly speculative. People like Ken will lose out by removing all discussion of his crappy book.
DeleteJC
Just for everyone's information, I am not Ken B despite John's paranoid need to believe that I am.
DeleteI read about Bessler's "weakling" assistant in one of Wagner's Critiques that was on one of John's many websites. I'm sure that Wagner would have known whether that weakling assistant was Bessler's brother or not and, if he was, would not have insulted him with such a description. Bessler's brother was younger than him and probably as strong because he would have had to have been to assist Bessler in setting up those huge 12 foot wheels at Merseburg and Kassel. He was no weakling.
@THX The Kassel wheel, like the Merseburg wheel, was bidirectional. Someone who hung onto the rim and rode either wheel up until it stopped before he hit the ceiling would have caused it to back rotate and lower him to the floor again because of his weight on the rim. Because of the mass of those wheels, he probably would have been lowered at a safe speed.
@John I think you should definitely not resist the temptation to have another one of your hissy fit shutdowns of this blog. That way everyone will have no remaining doubt about how immature and paranoid that you have become. But, if you do, it could be the final end of this blog. The question is do you want to risk that and the resulting loss of interest in Bessler and his wheels and the sale of your books that will result?
As far as the Ken B book is concerned, everyone interested in Bessler's wheels has to decide which one they would prefer to read...John's own 25 year old, one star Bessler autobiography book that, when it came time to reveal the secret of Bessler's wheels in its chapter 12, launches into an irrelevant discussion of Savonius windmills...or Ken B's 4 year old, five star book that gives detailed instructions on how to build working reproductions of Bessler's wheels. Imo, the choice would appear to be a simple one.
I'm not sure if Ken B has in fact found the secret of Bessler's wheels, but what he is offering seems to have captured the attention and imagination of many who come here to comment. He must be doing something right. I have his book, but have only read the first three chapters so far. Perhaps during the next shutdown I will finally have some more time to finish it.
jason
Unfortunately Jason, you may deny that you are not Ken, but your style is uncannily similar to his. My certainty that you are Ken is not an example of paranoia, but a normal reaction to both his and your continued speculation about things for which there is no documentary evidence.
DeleteYour suggestion about someone hanging on to the edge of the Kassel and being lifted may relate to a brief comment in Fischer von Erlach’s letter to Desaguliers, in which he merely suggested it to convey his impression of the power the wheel appeared to exhibit.
Your description of my considering closing comments is not a hissy fit, but purely frustration with your own extraordinary support of Ken’s book. Why you feel the need to infest this blog I don’t know but I can only assume that it’s because you are Ken, and desperate to see another of your books sold. Or perhaps you’re lonely?
I wonder how many books have you sold? The price and the size of the book, suggests not many. Anyone who has read it must be helpless with laughter as they read your infantile clues and the extraordinary interpretation you give them.
You offer theoretical ideas and then build your case on them, a house of cards built on sand. Your assumption that the Kassel weighed 1000 pounds is just another example of your wild imagination. Please go away Ken, and take your “probably” away with you.
JC
Well said JC, he needs to stop his nonsense now, once and for all!
Delete@JC
DeleteJohann Bernhard Fischer von Erlach had been a sculpture and was used to handling heavy stone pieces and he may have actually personally given it a try although he was about 68 yrs old at the time (IIRC he dropped dead a few years later in Vienna). If he did try it though we still don't know if his body weight brought the drum to a standstill after lifting him a few feet off the floor or if he let go of the rim after a few feet because he realized that if he didn't, he'd be taken up and over the top of the drum! That would depend upon the total Rot KE of the drum and its axle.
I recalled seeing an old Ken B video on youtube years ago in which he tried to show what would happen to someone grabbing onto the rim of the Kassel wheel's drum as it was rotating at full speed past him. His animation is crude, but it looks like the drum's speed is accurate and he shows the drum being stopped. It's really amazing how fast 26 rpms is! The video only lasts 12 seconds so loop it to watch it several times. Those interested can view it here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pK5Qr9Hlkhs
Unfortunately you’ve got it wrong again, anon 23:32 or Ken as I refer to you. This from my book about Bessler, “Perpetual Motion: An Ancient Mystery Solved?”
Delete“ Joseph Emanuel Fischer was the son of Johann Bernhard Fischer von Erlach, a famous Austrian architect, sculptor and architectural historian” . He was born in 1693 so was in his early twenties!
JC
But he didn’t do that, he wrote, “ I then stopped the wheel with much difficulty, holding on to the circumference with both hands. An attempt to stop it suddenly would raise a man from the ground.” It’s an opinion, not a description of what he did. Goodness it’s so hard to get through to you! But you don’t care for facts do you, it’s all about “maybe this and probably that and therefore this!”
DeleteJC
John, did Bessler's wife informed officials about a deceptiom as stated on page 5 of this paper: https://www.kerwa.ucr.ac.cr/bitstream/handle/10669/29540/Orffyreus.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y
ReplyDeleteNo. This account derives directly from an account by Wilhelm Streider written after Bessler’s death in which a number of rumours and gossip were introduced. Bessler’s wife died in 1725 or 6, in 1727 Karl the Landgrave stated that there was no fraud. Most of the negative gossip arose from the maid, who had already been imprisoned twice previously for spreading malicious gossip about her previous employers.
DeleteJC
Please don't buy Ken's book for many reasons. First and foremost, if he truly believed that his stupid ink blot interpretation of Bessler's wheel worked, he would have had it built! It would be worth a fortune to a museum and far more profitable than his book earnings. He KNOWS it won't work! I really wish he would go away!
DeleteHis wheel design doesn't look like any ink blot to me. It's a detailed design that's got all of the parts I'd expect to find inside of B's wheels like levers, weights, cords, springs, and stops.
DeleteI also think there are a lot of people out there right now that would accept it as the solution even if it is never built. They have faith that it would work if ever accurately constructed and that's enough for them. It's kind of like a religion for them. They were hungry for a solution and Ken B supplied them with one. Meanwhile, all John was doing was giving us recycled clues that appeared on his websites over a decade ago. That might be nice for noobs showing up here for the first time, but for those who have come here for years has become tiresome. I think that's why that SoS guy got so popular. His numerology clues were like a breath of fresh air here. I was also impressed by that severed head he found in the MT toys page. It's an amazing find after all these years.
I, however, need more than just faith and although I am impressed with Ken B's design, I need to see it finally turned into a working wheel before I can consider it to be the one Bessler used. I feel the same way toward anything anyone else shows us.
I also don't attend church on Sundays for much the same reasons. I don't see any gods and magic there...just delusional humans in drab garments peddling the same old thousands of years old stories and pretending like they must be absolutely true and everybody else better also believe them or they will have a really unpleasant time after they finally die. Total nonsense, imo, and really just another form of fear mongering to keep people paying, praying, and obeying. First they create the fear and then they charge people to remove the fear! It's a great racket and all based on emotional manipulation.
You wrote, “ It's a detailed design that's got all of the parts I'd expect to find inside of B's wheels like levers, weights, cords, springs, and stops.” Seriously you think that is good enough? I suspect that nearly every PM builder uses those components, so any design could have them and it proves nothing.
DeleteYou talk of people having faith that Ken’s (your) solution would work yet you dismiss church goers as delusional! But if a contradiction there.
My clues are tiresome in your opinion, but my “recycled” clues are real and not figments of my imagination. They are there for all to assess. Your clues are totally reliant on your opinion and if accepted, wide open to any interpretation - like Rorschach tests. Some psychologists use this test to examine a person's personality characteristics and emotional functioning. They would just love to examine yours.
The most obvious hole in your positive determination that your design is the same as Bessler’s is the simple fact that both Karl, and Bessler himself described the wheel as simple. Your design is anything but simple, is way to complicated and perhaps is one reason why no one wants to build it.
I know you deny that many of these commenters who claim to be Ken supporters aren’t Ken himself (you) but I don’t believe it.
I will delete any more comments that in my opinion are either yourself or one of your sock puppets - sock puppet, in the context of online communications, is a fake identity created to promote someone or something through blogs, wikis, forums or social networking sites such as Facebook or Twitter.
JC
Keneth hanging here every blog update and dropping links to his book and videos , clearly shows that Keneth needs John more than John needs Keneth !
DeletePerhaps if Keneth who talks and writes of himself in the third person , would act humble and decent and honest , things would actually go better for him .
I dont think that would happen though , the general feeling you get from everything he dreams up , is that he thinks he is THE man THE authority ,and not just one of us who research and investigate Besslers story , so you cannot have a conversation with him at all.
@JC! Which perticular drawing/drawings or part/parts we should study for the finding of the secret of besseler working wheel.
DeleteThank you 3:21 but I'm interested in @JC's Reply
DeleteI’m posting some more details soon, but you need to study all the drawings in GB and DT and various pieces of text in AP as well.
DeleteJC
Thanks JC
DeleteIsn’t it possible to mark a comment as a spam? I think then the IP will be blacklisted.
ReplyDeleteThank you. JC
DeleteJC is hoping that no one notices that he deleted a comment here by a guy named "Martin" yesterday who had been here last year and had his first comment back then also deleted. The comment of his that JC deleted this time was his second and he said that he had some new information for us that would actually support JC's pentagon wheel design, but that if his second comment also got deleted he wouldn't be posting it. So now we don't get to see it thanks to JC. JC should restore his comment immediately and apologize to him for making a "mistake" in deleting it.
DeleteDid JC ever consider that OTHERS here might want to see that new information about pentagonal wheel designs? We need more new information here about Bessler's wheels here not less and just what JC wants us to see. Contrary to what he wants everyone to believe, he is not the sole possessor of all valid Bessler wheel information. Anyone thinking of posting any new information here today should keep that in mind before doing so. Think twice before investing your time trying to support any blog where your comments can be deleted by a blog owner who doesn't like any that might contain new information that he is unaware of and which might expose his ignorance of a subject.
I didn’t delete any comment but I did label some comments as spam, and they do seem to have disappeared. I can remove the spam label if I want,
DeleteJC
You must be Ken, you love your upper case words! They say that’s akin to shouting.
DeleteJC
@anon 21:29
DeleteAs a clue starved shark I get very nervous whenever I see someone here mention dead sharks!
I agree that the more comments we see on this blog, the better and more interesting it is. I also found it mind boggling that John would delete a comment from someone who, like him, believes Bessler's wheels might actually have contained a pentagon of pm mechanisms. That has to be a first around here! Maybe John missed that in his zeal to hit the delete button?
I too want to see any new information or clues that might support John's design that Martin can show us. I also want to see a lot more from SoS especially after that tasty severed head clue he recently served us clue hungry sharks. I pray to the my shark gods that John won't decide his comments also need to be labeled as spam!
Starved Shark
It is hard for me to imagine that numbers would get someone to a working design or something hidden , i do see it as hokus pokus but i also do see how hokus pokus can be applied and usefull if you choose to use it as a method for hiding things , but with that said others are better off looking in to it than me and if it reveals something real i would perhaps agree that it was implimented to that effect .
ReplyDeleteUp untill now i havent seen much mechanical or physics related revelations when it comes to numerology though.
I have an open mind though
We all should remember that among many other things Bessler was a numerologist and that using the hokus pokus of numbers was the way people like him hid secret information from the average person back in his day such as information that could get someone executed if it was publicly revealed. SoS who is also an excellent numerologist could not have found so many clues in the MT drawings unless Bessler had put them there to start with.
DeleteBessler knew that if he died between having finished wheels, then the world would never know how they worked so they could duplicate them and Bessler would then go down in history as just another charlatan and swindler which is unfortunately how many even in his own country consider him today. I don't think being remembered like that would have been acceptable to him. Actually, it wouldn't be acceptable to anyone with any self respect.
Of course he would have left us clues and plenty of them, but you can bet that they would be very subtle and only ones that the most skilled of numerologists could locate and interpret. So far, imo, SoS is doing a fantastic job of that and all you have to do is look at that severed head clue he found in the MT Toys Page which was a big surprise for everyone. The last time he was here he said he was starting to move away from the MT drawings and onto some of the DT drawings and had found some really amazing new clues in one of the DT drawings of the Kassel wheel.
When I look at the drawings of that wheel I see nothing suspicious. But then again I'm no SoS. I'm hoping he returns in the next blog so he can show me what I was missing all along. After he does, I'll slap my forehead and say "Damn, why didn't I notice that before?!" He has that effect on people and best of all he gives it all to us free of charge so we don't have to buy a book or download to see it. I like that.
Anon 21:29 You simply don’t get it. I have no objection to discussions about Bessler and any other ideas, my principle complaint is the number of comments aimed at discussing, promoting Ken’s bloody book. It’s absolute rubbish, full of fake information and crazy speculation. I simply don’t want his ideas polluting the real Bessler information which we all want to discuss. I am absolutely 100 per cent certain that Ken’s theories have no place within this field of research. This is why I occasionally delete comments, but now I label those as spam. I welcome all ideas based on the established facts. Speculation is ok, as long as it is clearly identified, but when Ken mentions an idea and he just goes mad suggesting that this ”probably” led to this and that. I do not really want to delete or label any comment in future, so please just respect my wishes.
ReplyDeleteJC
"Speculation is ok, as long as it is clearly identified, but when Ken mentions an idea and he just goes mad suggesting that this ”probably” led to this and that."
DeleteMost people would understand that anyone using the word "probably" would be letting them know that he was engaging in some speculation. He's telling them in advance that he thinks something is likely, but not completely certain at this time. Maybe you are the one having a problem with that? I notice that whenever you start talking about your still unrevealed new clues or your pentagon stuff, you never say that they are speculative or that they are only probably correct. You give everyone the impression that they are absolutely true. Since you don't even have a working sim yet verifying the validity of any of your clues, how can you do something like that? It seems to me that you have no problem accusing others of behavior that you conveniently excuse yourself of doing.
The unfortunate reality is that all of the facts you and others have managed to dig up over the years did not solve the Bessler wheel mystery. We obviously need something more and if we have to speculate a little to finally find the solution, then that's what we will have to do. If the Bessler wheel could be solved only using what you think are facts, then it would have been done long before we came along.
Centuries ago others in Europe read the same Bessler's writings that we have and in their original language and saw the same drawings we see (with the exception of the MT drawings) and they were just as eager to learn how his wheels worked as we are. They worked with the facts they had. They are all dust now and they never solved it. I want to see a solution in my lifetime and not 300 years from now when you, I, and everyone else who comes here are also just dust. If some speculation gets us there, then I have no problem with it.
When it comes to Ken B's book, I have only read the introduction given in the free preview on Amazon. But, right at the beginning of it he tells the reader that due to the incomplete details we have about Bessler and his wheels, he had to do some "reasonable speculation" to fill in the blanks and provide a readable and fairly accurate account of Bessler's life and the construction of his wheels. He isn't trying to mislead anybody about that. Just because you may feel it's "fake information and crazy speculation" doesn't necessarily mean it is or that others who read the volume will agree with you. It seems to me that a lot of those who did read it have commented favorably about it on this blog. And, most importantly, he has provided us with a design that he claims is the exact one whose details Bessler hid in his various drawings. Who else has done that for us? You keep promising to do that, but never deliver on the promise.
Your comment seems very reasonable, but you still claim Ken’s sim depicts a working wheel, but it has been dismissed by experts for technical reasons. It’s not a legitimate simulation. His wheel is complicated, Bessler’s was described as simple by the only other person to see the interior, and even Bessler commented that he was worried that once people knew the secret they would not think it was worth the asking price.
ReplyDeleteIf you had read the book as I have you would dismiss the clues as completely nonsensical. He interprets them anyway but fails to explain how he arrives at his meaning. He counts the curls on Bessler’s wig in the portrait and explains what it means, but there is no way of knowing that his interpretation is correct or maybe something else or in fact it isn’t even a clue. My clues are easy to understand and my interpretations accepted by most people. So they haven’t led to a working wheel but they will do.
I’m not going to comment on all of the clues, but they are of a similar quality to the “severed head” clue found recently in the Toys page. That is just a typical ink block printing error, a little too much ink in one area and you get a blot. These prints that Bessler left us were designed to be used with his students, and the actual wood ink blocks were kept so he could print some for every new class. So the paper prints were kept for his own purposes, showing what each ink block depicted so he could easily see which one he wished to use. A minor print error such as the so-called severed head is just that, nothing more, no hidden meaning, no secret warning. Obviously he would print better copies for his future students.
Ken’s use of the word “probably” may imply speculation, but you have only read the introduction apparently so you have no idea of the stretches of imagination he requires of his readers to accept that the clues he identifies are really clues. With those clues he finds meanings hidden from us, so we have no way of knowing if he is right or not. His interpretations are so mysterious, it’s as if some higher power gave them to him, because to the average reader his conclusions are incomprehensible. I wonder if he obtained the information from his superior knowledge about UFO’s and Ghosts!
JC
Ken. It’s definitely you! You should read what you write. It’s toxic!
DeleteYes I’m calling it spam, congratulations!
DeleteJC