Friday 1 December 2023

Update for Christmas and Onwards to Next Year

So the end of the year approaches and I’m still building my Bessler-Collins wheel. I’m trying to finish it before New Years Eve, but if I don’t finish it by then I will still publish everything anyway, and continue with my build. 

As I’ve said before, and others have too, nothing proves the concept/design/configuration better than a working model, so even if the design is being simmed, I’ll continue with my project.

I’m not good at producing images so the explanation will be a mix of text and images. I’ll try to keep it short and as simple as I can.  I won’t take up too much space explaining where I found the clues and how I arrived at the interpretation, much of it will be fairly obvious.

The main thing is that once anyone understands the concept, it probably won’t need much further explanation.

A detailed explanation of all the clues I used is being written but that will take much longer to become available.  Bessler had no way of knowing which, if any, of his clues would be identified and interpreted or deciphered, so he doubled up on lots of clues, distributing them here, there and everywhere in text and drawings.  Some clues had two ways of deciphering them, and if they came up with the same answer that was a good result. There are literally dozens of them and that does not include the huge database containing 141 Bible references which I have barely skimmed - and although I can prove it contains coded information, I haven’t succeeded in deciphering it. I calculate that there are potentially in that chapter between 1000 and 1500 characters or words to find and decipher.

Bessler’s wheel concept is easier to understand than to build, for me anyway, but I suspect that more than a few people will accomplish a working model more quickly than I and it will look much better than mine. The skills and tools I used to have are considerably diminished but hopefully I’ve got enough left to make this model.  If not then I just hope the sims will inspire enough people to build an actual working model. 

This is a very busy time for me, not just because I’m building a model and writing up both a simple description for posting after Christmas, as well as the long term version for a later time, but I’ll also be travelling north before Christmas to stay near my granddaughter Amy and her parents over Christmas, and it’s normally a three and a half hour drive, but it being this time of the year, I reckon it could take longer.  I’m also on shopping duty!

Also, you may remember my granddaughter Amy Pohl is a TikTok and YouTube influencer with over 3.7 million followers. I fear I shall be dragooned into another of her infamous videos, along with the rest of the family.  So embarrassing!

I’m very excited and at the same time apprehensive about my big reveal!  I anticipate a kind of stunned reaction, when people see how simple the solution is.  I just hope I’m right!

JC

72 comments:

  1. JC wrote "I anticipate a kind of stunned reaction, when people see how simple the solution is."

    We are all eagerly looking forward to being stunned and then celebrating your achievement in the best of the holiday tradition...with PLENTY of spirits! Lol

    Best of luck!

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  2. I just might get my wheel working before you. D.S.

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  3. Good luck DS and thanks anon.p 10:58.

    JC

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  4. JC wrote "I’m very excited and at the same time apprehensive about my big reveal!"

    Sounds like you probably won't have the wheel finished and tested by the end of this year. If so, then sims based on your "big reveal" will either show it's a runner, might become a runner with some changes, or can never become a runner.

    If the sims show it's a hopeless design, then you have choices you can make. Don't believe the sims or the simmers and keep plugging away at it hoping to prove them all wrong. Change to an entirely new approach and see if the sims approve of that one. Or, just call it quits.

    Quitting would obviously be the hardest thing to do. My high school coach used to have a motto he never tired of reciting which was "A quitter never wins and a winner never quits!" However, I've notice that quitters tend to live longer, less stress filled lives than those out there that keep struggling to win, but never do and only wind up frustrated, burned out, and regretful by the ends of their lives. Imo, quitting can often be the healthiest thing one can do for himself in many situations.

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    1. Maybe instead of saying "quitting" which has a negative meaning associated with it, we should say "retiring". Retirement is something that is positive and means a time of leisure well earned after a lifetime of effort to better society. No one wants to be labeled a "quitter" which is almost like saying he is a "loser". But, being called "retired" is something to aspire to and to be proud to have achieved! I am currently retired and LOVING IT!

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    2. If a sim is made based on my design, and it doesn’t work, I won’t be retiring any time soon because, as they often say in movies, “failure is not an option”.

      If a sim based on my design doesn’t work, it may depend on some adjustment to the configuration, and assuming that the conceptual design is right, and it is, then it should be simple task to adjust the sim and get success.

      JC

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    3. @JC

      Don't forget Einstein's famous definition of insanity:

      "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."

      For the Bessler pm wheel chaser that needs to be modified to:

      "Insanity is staying with the same basic design, year after year after year, always believing that it is only one little tweak away from finally working."

      Btw...how long have you been playing around with five lever wheel designs?

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    4. Oh, 25 years or so!

      JC

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    5. 25 years?! Yes, sounds like insanity by anon 16:18's revised definition. But, don't feel too bad about it because most of the long time pm chasers are also insane by his new definition. But, I think eventually we will all be cured by either one last visit from the grim reaper or by waking up one day totally burned out and dreading even thinking about pm anymore. I've seen it happen to a few long timers on other sites. It tends to be more noticeable with them compared to newbies because they've been around longer and their sudden absence is obvious. I think the technical word for it is "capitulation" which is a breaking point that is reached when one cannot endure the emotional, mental, and physical stress of continuing some sort of previous action. It's seen in things like politics, warfare, finance, and also research.

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    6. In the hallowed halls of invention, where minds collided with the boundaries of possibility, there arose a relentless pursuit that echoed through the ages. The quest for perpetual motion, a noble endeavor that lured the bravest minds into its deceptive embrace, only to witness their dreams shatter like fragile glass.

      Countless warriors of intellect, armed with gears and cogs, forged in the fires of ingenuity, stepped onto the battlefield of perpetual motion. Their eyes glinted with the fervor of discovery, their hearts fueled by an unwavering belief that they could harness the elusive energy that would defy the very laws of nature.

      One by one, they marched onto the stage, their machines standing proudly, a testament to their audacious ambition. Inventors and dreamers, visionaries and madmen, they all sought the same elusive prize – the perpetual dance of machinery, an eternal ballet of perpetual motion.

      Yet, as the gears turned and the pendulums swung, each attempt met the cruel reality of physics. The laws of thermodynamics, a formidable adversary, stood resolute, imposing their immutable will upon the battlefield. No matter the intricacy of the designs, the precision of the engineering, or the fervent hope that fueled their endeavors, every machine eventually succumbed to the relentless grip of entropy.

      It was a graveyard of innovation, where the remnants of countless aspirations lay scattered like fallen soldiers. Gears ground to a halt, springs uncoiled, and dreams dissolved into the cold grasp of defeat. The battlefield echoed with the haunting whispers of those who had dared to defy the natural order, their spectral presence a cautionary tale for those who would follow.

      The pursuit of perpetual motion became a saga of resilience and folly, a testament to the indomitable spirit of human curiosity. The warriors of invention, though scarred by failure, left behind a legacy of knowledge that would guide future generations. They had dared to challenge the laws of nature, and in doing so, they forged the path toward a deeper understanding of the universe.

      In the end, the quest for perpetual motion became more than a mere mechanical challenge. It became a metaphor for the unyielding human spirit, an enduring testament to the audacity of those who dare to dream beyond the limits imposed by the very fabric of reality. And so, the pursuit continues, a perpetual journey in itself, as each new warrior steps onto the battlefield, armed with the wisdom of those who came before, ready to face the age-old adversary with unwavering determination.

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    7. Very good !

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    8. Nice ennobling ChatGPT description of the "quest" for pm!

      "And so, the pursuit continues, a perpetual journey in itself, as each new warrior steps onto the battlefield, armed with the wisdom of those who came before..."

      LOL! That's the major problem with the "pursuit". Those chasing pm are generally deaf, dumb, and blind to the many failed designs of the past. Each believes he has something unique and is unaware that it's just another variation of something that wasted the time of perhaps thousands of others before him! Of course, don't dare try to tell him that because, if you do, you will only trigger his paranoia that you are part of some grand conspiracy trying to prevent him from achieving success and earning his rightful place in the hall of famous scientists who advanced human knowledge by decades, maybe even centuries!

      The asylums of the world are filled with patients all convinced that they are famous people or that they have superior knowledge about some subject and they've been committed to try to suppress it. I wonder how many there are who claim the know the secret of pm. I suspect that it is probably a significant percentage.

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    9. Finding the secret of Bessler's wheels is actually so easy that I'm surprised no else ever thought of it before. Just lock a thousand immortal male monkeys into an aircraft hangar with an endless supply of bananas, water, paper, and pencils and let them each keep drawing one wheel design after another when he's not drinking, eating, wanking, sleeping, or sh*tting. Most likely within the first million years, one of them will finally sketch out Bessler's working pm wheel design!

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    10. Anon 2 Dec 20:24

      Hey anon, I appreciate your passion for the pursuit or field of interest, but it's important to approach it with an open mind. Everyone has their unique journey and perspective, and sometimes, learning from others' experiences, both successes, and failures, can be valuable. Instead of being critical, let's try to foster a positive and collaborative environment where we can all contribute to the collective knowledge. It's okay to be cautious, but let's also give people the benefit of the doubt and encourage a more supportive dialogue.

      CHATGPT

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    11. Anon 3 December 06:28

      The concept you're presenting involves a humorous and exaggerated scenario, suggesting that with enough time and resources, even a group of monkeys could accidentally stumble upon a solution to Bessler's wheel, a historical puzzle related to perpetual motion. While the idea is amusing, it's important to note that perpetual motion is a concept that contradicts the laws of thermodynamics.

      The laws of thermodynamics state that energy cannot be created or destroyed, and any machine attempting to achieve perpetual motion would violate these fundamental principles. The scientific consensus is that perpetual motion machines are not feasible within the constraints of our current understanding of physics.

      While creative thinking and brainstorming are crucial in scientific endeavors, it's also essential to ground ideas in scientific principles. Encouraging a more informed and evidence-based approach could lead to more fruitful discussions about energy and motion-related concepts.

      CHATGPT

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    12. Anon 06:28 wrote:

      "Just lock a thousand...male monkeys into an aircraft hangar...one of them will finally sketch out Bessler's working pm wheel design!"

      For a second there I thought you were talking about the BW forum! Lol!

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    13. Who needs a thousand stinking, screeching, scat throwing monkeys to find the secret of B's wheels? We have JOHN to do that for us! Get lost monkeys. And in just a few short weeks John is going to serve us all up a nice big bowl of holiday pudding in the form of the final solution to B's pm wheels! It shall be a tasty pudding indeed. Then watch all the negative naysayers fall silent as they crawl back under their rocks to hide from being forced to realize how wrong and stupid they were all along. Goodbye and good riddance naysayers. 2024 is going to be John's best year here.

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    14. @anon 14:29
      I'm sure you really meant well, but suggesting that JC is a suitable replacement for one thousand smelly monkeys didn't exactly sound like the best way to compliment him!

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  5. Però rimane sempre il fatto che Bessler è riuscito, non é una utopia cercare la soluzione.
    Giuseppe Pelotti.

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    1. But the fact always remains that Bessler succeeded, it is not a utopia to look for the solution.
      Giuseppe Pelotti.

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    2. Unfortunately, he only succeeded IF it wasn't all a hoax as the scientists claim. Without a working replica wheel we have no way of proving it was real. Our belief it was real is just a feeling at this time. Feelings can often be wrong.

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    3. @anon 09:37

      If anyone ever actually gets a physical pm wheel running, that in no way means that Bessler was not hoaxing everyone with his wheels. It just means that such a wheel is possible. Even if Bessler was not hoaxing, it will also be nearly impossible to prove that new physical wheel uses the same design that Bessler's wheels used based on "clues" people think they see in the Bessler drawings even if that new wheel's performance exactly matches everything mentioned by the early 18th century examiners of Bessler's claimed to be genuine wheels.

      The problem is that those "clues" tend to be ambiguous at best and everyone looking at them may interpret them differently. You'd have to have a set of "clues" Bessler left that exactly described the construction details of the new wheel and whose interpretations a majority of people agreed on. Good luck getting a majority of people to agree on anything nowadays.

      I think in the years to come we will see many different "successful" rediscoveries of Bessler's wheel showing up. None of them will have an actual working physical model though. They will all have what are claimed to be "working" simulations. Which rediscovered wheel design, if any, people will finally accept as being the same design that Bessler had will depend on which one has the most "working" independently made simulations and what are the reputations of the rediscoverer as well as those claiming to have verifying simulations for that design.

      I do hope that John manages to serve us up a tasty "pudding" by the beginning of the new year. But, even if he does, it could still take a long time, if ever, before a majority agree that he had the same pudding recipe that Bessler used assuming Bessler actually had a recipe and was not just a hoaxer suffering from religious delusions of grandeur who was out to scam a lot of money by selling a worthless pm wheel to some gullible people with deep pockets.

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  6. You've read all of the Bessler books and visited all the blogs and forums...but now it's time to see the ANIMATED movie about Bessler!

    In this version of the Bessler story we learn that Bessler's largest wheels were actually powered by his maid who ran around inside of them! I'm not joking about that. This video is in Spanish so you will have to turn on Closed Captions and then use Settings to turn on Autotranslate and then pick English.

    https://youtu.be/5BvU3oi_Q2k

    Paul

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    1. The cartoon characters are nice, but it looks like it's intended to teach kids that Bessler's wheels were all frauds. The lies about Bessler never stop and get passed from generation to generation with things like this.

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    2. At the beginning of the cartoon it says in Spanish "Grandes fraudes de la ciencia. El conde Orffyreus." In English that is "Great frauds of science. Count Orffyreus." Whoever made this apparently thought Bessler was a count. He claims that Bessler always destroyed his wheels whenever people started to ask too many questions and started to accuse him of hoaxing. He had to do that so as not to risk being exposed. Anyone who's studied the real Bessler story will immediately realize that this is nonsense made by someone who didn't really study the subject and obviously misinterpreted what little he did study.

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    3. Bessler era un uomo onesto, la ruota non era una frode, quando vedremo la meraviglia tutti diranno: strano che nessuno ci abbia pensato e questa frase esplicita dimostra la verità e molti si morderanno la lingua per le cattiverie scritte e si gratteranno la testa pensando al tempo che hanno sprecato.
      Giuseppe Pelotti

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    4. Bessler was an honest man, the wheel was not a fraud, when we see the wonder everyone will say: strange that no one thought of it and this explicit sentence proves the truth and many will bite their tongues for the wickedness written and will scratch their heads thinking about the time they wasted.
      Giuseppe Pelotti

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    5. The idea of the maid running around even inside of the Kassal wheel's widest drum is ridiculous, imo. Its drum was only 18 inches thick.

      Possibly, if she was a very small woman, she could have sat in a chair hanging stationary below the section of turning axle hidden inside of the drum and then used foot pedals on some mechanism that moved a looped cog chain which was wrapped around a large cog gear on the axle. This would have been like a hanging version of the chain drive used in a bicycle. If this was used, then she would also have had to have some sort of mechanical transmission whose low gear she would use when she was driving the huge drum at low speed. She would then need to shift to higher gears as the wheel slowly sped up. That transmission would also have needed to have a reverse gear in it when the drum was pushed in the opposite direction and needed to turn in that direction.

      She would also have needed to be an athlete to be able to keep the Kassal wheel running fast enough to lift a heavy load of bricks up the side of Weissenstein Castle using this approach. But, if that was what was done, then what was done for the Merseburg wheel whose drum was much thinner? I think the idea of any human occupant powering the Kassal wheel would be extremely improbable and impossible for any of Bessler's earlier wheels.

      If any hoaxing was done, it would have been done with either a spring powered system using gears like Wagner's fake pm wheel or, as Leibniz may have thought, with compressed air cleverly used to shift weights out on the drum's descending side while expanding springs pushed them back toward the axle on the drum's ascending side so as to create an imbalance. However, I doubt if either approach could have powered the Kassal wheel for almost two months nonstop.

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    6. Anon 10:54:
      Interesting theory how the maid could power the Kassal wheel. But pedaling could make her legs very tired after a while. How about her chair being a swing hanging from the axle by some sort of ratchet mechanism? She'd swing back and forth and each forward swing would power the wheel. I'm not sure how this could be used to reverse wheel direction though. Maybe some sort of drive reverse system that when activated would power the wheel in the opposite direction during each of her back swings?
      Also she wouldn't have to keep the wheel turning for all 57 days of the duration test. She would only power it at the start, during the inspection, and at the end when witnesses were in the room. Like someone else suggested, she could hide in a secret passage in the wheel's room until she needed to re-enter the wheel just before people entered the room and then use that passage again when the room was empty again and she wanted to leave.
      Like you I think something like this would be possible but I consider it unlikely. If this was how Bessler hoaxed the Kassal wheel then that maid must have been one spry little woman.

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    7. Interesting that you mention using a swing to power the Kassel wheel, anon 19:45, if it was hoaxed which I don't believe it was. There is a single drawing in MT where Bessler shows a man on a swing whose swings work two pumps so that their outputs can make a waterwheel turn cw. By using two waterwheels with opposed vanes on the same axle and changing which one got the water from the two pumps, the axle could be made to turn in either direction. That MT drawing is #85:

      http://www.orffyre.com/MTHard085.jpg

      Something like MT 85 could not of course have been used inside the Kassel wheel to hoax it, but it shows Bessler had some designs that clearly were not self moving or perpetual. I'm not sure why he included them in MT.

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    8. anon 22:14 wrote; "...Bessler had some designs that clearly were not self moving or perpetual. I'm not sure why he included them in MT."

      I think that Bessler planned the order of the MT drawings for a purpose. The earlier drawings are all imbalanced pm designs that cannot work for reasons that he would explain in more detail in the final finished book he planned and those explanations would be far more detailed then what he hand wrote in the short notes on the test prints of the drawings which we now have. Then he shows us the later drawings which include many machines capable of doing a lot of work if they have an external power source like a man on a swing or a nearby water stream. The last drawings were the ones showing how his pm wheels worked which would be machines doing a lot of work without an external power supply. Unfortunately, those drawings were later removed and destroyed. It's like he's given us a murder mystery to read and then when we turn to the last pages to find out who the murderer was we find the pages torn out!

      While I'm commenting I want to say something about the term "prime mover" which I think causes a lot of confusion.

      Many seem to think it is a miraculous mechanism that when added to any of the designs shown in MT will turn it into a pm machine. While that is probably true, I think it was really just a term Bessler used to describe the actual mechanics inside of his pm wheels. Most likely he only had one design that he just scaled up as his wheels' diameters got bigger and they got more powerful. By "prime" he meant that one of his wheel's mechanics was itself the first source of motion inside of the wheel that worked by creating and sustaining the imbalance of its weights during rotation. IOW, his design which he called his "prime mover" did not rely on some previous motion of something else for it to work. Its action was, unlike all other effects, an effect without a prior cause.

      From reading Bessler's books it is clear to me that he really didn't know how his wheels worked other than they stayed imbalanced as they turned. IIRC at some place he says "they just work". I'm not saying that the energy they outputted came out of nowhere. That's impossible. There had to be a source but it was not an obvious conventional one which Bessler acknowledges throughout his writings. That's what frustrated his skeptics so much. They kept looking for such a conventional source of energy, but could never find one and neither could Bessler.

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    9. anon 11:17 wrote

      "The last drawings were the ones showing how his pm wheels worked which would be machines doing a lot of work without an external power supply."

      A "lot of work"? I've read estimates that B's Kassal wheel only put out about 50 watts or so. Okay, it was pm and that's nice. But you could easily get 50 watts from a single solar panel which would require next to no maintenance. Of course it won't work at night. But that's really no problem. Just set up two of the panels. Have one to use during the day for electrical power and the second one to use during the day to charge up a lithium battery which you then use at night for electrical power.

      I don't see B's wheels being a serious source of pollution free power to help us slow or stop climate change. But it would still be nice to know how he did it whether it was real or faked.

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    10. I’m no expert when it comes to estimating how much power the Merseburg wheel and therefore the Kassel wheel, could output, but considering they routinely lifted a chest of bricks weighing about 70 pounds up and down the castle wall with no discernible difficulty, I think the estimate of its power, however it was arrived at, was underestimated by a considerable degree.

      JC

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    11. Anon 11.17 wrote "Most likely he only had ONE DESIGN that he just scaled up as his wheels' diameters got bigger and they got more powerful.

      By "prime" he meant that one of his wheel's mechanics was itself the first source of motion inside of the wheel that worked by creating and sustaining the imbalance of its weights during rotation."

      The second part makes sense because B says over and over, and in different ways, that his wheels could sustain overbalance. Our experience tells us additional energy is required to sustain imbalance.

      The first part about scaling up only one design needs more thought. ”B says Note: The Draschwitz machine did not create a similar noise because it worked on quite different principles – I have many other machines of various types – some for instance, with weights, others without.” - AP pg 352, Thereby confirming he had many types of OOB wheel principles that could become runners.

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    12. @anon 20:17

      I think the Draschwitz wheel not making the same noises as the larger and thicker Merseburg wheel was because the Draschwitz wheel was only one directional while the Merseburg wheel was bidirectional. The Merseburg wheel would have had extra mechanisms in it to make it bidirectional and their motions during wheel rotation accounts for the Merseburg wheel being noisier than the Draschwitz wheel.

      IIRC Bessler placed felt cushioning material into the Draschwitz wheel to reduce its sound effects because he didn't want any inventors in the crowds viewing that wheel to be able to gain information about how it worked from the sounds it made. For some reason these cushions were eliminated in the Merseburg wheel. I suspect that was because their presence interfered with the extra mechanisms needed to make that wheel bidirectional. To me that means that those extra mechanisms must have required a lot of precision to work properly.

      Agreed that sustaining overbalance in a rotating wheel definitely requires extra energy be added to the wheel's weights because their CoG has to be constantly rising against the pull of gravity even though it stays at a fixed height above the floor below the wheel. Just like a person walking up a "down" escalator can remain at the same height above the floor below him, but to do that he must constantly keep climbing the escalator steps and using the chemical energy in his body to do so. We know where that energy comes from for him to do that (the fat and glucose molecules in his muscle cells), but where did the energy come from that kept Bessler's wheels overbalanced as they turned??? It had to have a source because it could not have just magically come out of thin air.

      Yes, on AP page 352 Bessler states that he has "many other machines of various types". But, he doesn't say they were pm machines or, if they were, that they were OOB type wheels. One has to be careful how he interprets Bessler's often ambiguous statements. He unfortunately wasn't the clearest of writers and I don't think that was done on purpose by him to protect his big secret. He could have just assumed people would know what he was describing and maybe the readers in his century and location would have. But, we today are, when using AP, forced to work with English translations of poetry verses that were done in another language that is now three centuries old! Because of this we will always be working with a handicap as we try to analyze the mystery of Bessler's wheels.

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    13. Context is important to communicate full meaning. pg's 338 & 339

      XXIX (b) The clattering in my machine is (says Wagner) just for appearance's sake.

      Herr Wagner says that my machine does not, under any circumstances, derive its motive force from the noisy weights. In other words, he declares that the mechanism that causes all the clattering (which was commented on earlier and which was noted by so many people) is not, in fact, the thing which causes the rotation of my Wheel. The clattering noise you refer to is, I assure you, a phenomenon caused directly by the real motive power of the machine, and nothing else.

      You also wish me to inform you why the Draschwitz machine did not create a similar noise; well, I'll tell you. The two machines can easily be contrasted, as they worked on quite different principles. The former (Draschwitz) one turned in only one direction, but the latter (Merseburg ) one turned, as everyone could see, both ways. The former was provided with felt coverings, but the latter was as bare as a bald head. I have many other machines of various types - some, for instance, with weights, others without. Your questions are extremely irritating. Why don't you get your wheel moving? Till then, shut up.

      There is little room for misunderstanding, when taken in context of direct reply to Wagner's criticisms, that B is talking about prospective runner designs, some with weights and others without. IOW's they are all overbalancing designs (which power/move the wheel) of various types, that need a Bessler Prime Mover to be animated into self-movement.

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    14. @anon 23:02
      Those "other machines of various types" could have referred to the various designs he came up with for MT, most of which were never actually build by Bessler. The ones that had no weights obviously couldn't be the overbalanced kind. Since we know that none of the machines shown in MT are capable of pm by themselves, then they could all be made to run if one attached Bessler's "prime mover" to them in some way which I claim was just his one working pm wheel design.

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    15. Let me see if I have this right. The Prime Mover was the one and only type of OOB wheel that was a runner, and was attached to all other OOB wheels that were not runners so they could become runners. Where did the energy come from to reset the one and only runner OOB design?

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    16. That's exactly what I'm suggesting, anon 07:04.

      I believe that Bessler only had one pm wheel design which he just scaled up from a small 3 foot prototype tabletop model to the giant bidirectional 12 foot diameter Merseburg and Kassal wheels. For those last two he actually used two back to back, one way wheels inside of a thicker drum and added some extra mechanisms that could alternately disable one of the one way wheels when the drum was pushed in the opposite direction that one way wheel was supposed to turn in.

      His basic one way wheel could have been attached, probably by a drive belt from its axle, to power any of the non pm machines in MT or actually any machine with rotating parts as was done with that Archimedean waterscrew in the room with the Kassal wheel.

      Where did the energy come from? There are several theories about that. I currently favor the Ken B explanation which was that the energy was provided by the energy associated with the mass of the lead weights inside of a wheel. As the wheel ran, its weights would very slowly lose mass over time as their energy content (given by E = mc^2) was outputted as mechanical energy.

      Some people have problems with this concept, but it does happen in Nature. Every second of every day several tens of thousands of tons of mass are lost from our Sun as the energy associated with that mass becomes photons of electromagnetic radiation that then radiate off into the surrounding space. The Earth only captures a tiny percentage of that energy and it powers everything on our planet. No life on Earth would exist without it.

      The process taking place inside of our Sun involves fusion reactions that can only occur at extremely high temperatures in the core of the Sun. In Bessler's wheels, however, the process did not involve fusion reactions or high temperatures. Of course, the far gently process going on in Bessler's wheels also put out mechanical energy at a very low rate although that could go on for a very long time like hundreds of millions of years assuming a wheel did not wear out which it most certainly would have after a few years of continuously running. I once owned an automatic wristwatch that I wore constantly to keep it wound up and running. It kept near perfect time for about three years and then, one day, I noticed it was slow by several hours. I reset the time and the next day it was slow by even more hours. A day after that the watch would not run even when fully wound. The problem was fixed by having the watch's movement removed, cleaned, and relubricated. Much the same problem would have happened to any of Bessler's wheels if it was not regular serviced.

      What was actually happening inside of Bessler's wheels would have been a total mystery to the scientists of the early 18th century so they considered them being pm impossible and, therefore, they concluded that Bessler's wheels HAD to be hoaxed. Now in the 21st century we can begin to understand how Bessler's wheels might have worked and see that it was possible without them having been hoaxed.

      I do remain convinced that Bessler only had a single OOB design and its low power output was a big obstacle to him finding a buyer for it. That was why he became obsessed with building bigger and more powerful wheels. He supposedly had plans for a giant 40 foot diameter super wheel that would have produced thousands of watts. He must have thought such a giant wheel would be irresistible to businessmen. Unfortunately, that wheel never got constructed. I guess the count wanted to see how the Kassal wheel did first before he would consider paying for the construction of an even more expensive wheel.

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    17. Ken or who ever you are. I’ve never believed for one moment, your explanation about where the source of energy came from which turned any of Bessler’s wheels.

      It is ridiculous to suggest that “the wheel and its weights would very slowly lose mass as their energy content was outputted as mechanical energy”. There wouldn’t be enough energy to turn the wheel once let alone continuously for almost two months.

      Ken you are ignoring the elephant in the room! Like it or not, the energy came from gravity via the weights. There is a configuration that enables this and you will discover what that configuration is and was very soon.

      JC

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    18. John, haven't you been told repeatedly that gravity contains no energy that it could have provided to B's wheels so they could then put it out as mechanical energy? This fact seems to go in one of your ears and right out the other! If gravity cannot be the source of the energy that came from B's wheels, then that means the source had to be contained inside of the wheels themselves. All they contained were wood, brass, steel, and a lot of lead. If you calculate the amount of energy contained in hundreds of pounds of lead using that E=mc^2 formula, you will see that it is an enormous amount. If completely released immediately, it would be enough energy to push the moon out of its orbit! I think the Ken B explanation makes much sense. It certainly makes more sense then believing energy can just suddenly appear out of nowhere which I occasionally see some suggesting.

      Delete
    19. Wow Ken, a bit of a waspish comment! To quote myself, “…like it or not, the energy came from gravity via the weights”. The weights fell through the effect of gravity on them, causing the wheel to rotate so the energy came indirectly from the action of gravity.

      You argue that “ If gravity cannot be the source of the energy that came from B's wheels, then that means the source had to be contained inside of the wheels themselves.” In other words, because the source of your wheel is inside it, then it is an isolated system and thus isolated from all external forces including gravity.

      JC

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    20. @JC

      First you wrote "...the energy came FROM gravity via the weights" and then you wrote "...the energy came INDIRECTLY from the action of gravity."

      In both cases you are actually saying that gravity was the energy source which is not the case. A gravity field has no mass and without mass it can have no energy.

      You could put one of Bessler's wheels inside of a large rotating centrifuge out in deep space and it would still be able to output energy as the wheel turned about its axle yet there would be no natural planetary gravity field present only local centrifugal forces acting on the wheel's weights and pushing them away from the center of rotation of the centrifuge. The rotating centrifuge would not as a result slow down and lose its kinetic energy as the Bessler wheel rotated. But, if KB is right, the mass of the weights inside of the Bessler wheel should slowly decrease over time if the wheel was somehow able to send its kinetic energy away from itself by maybe using its axle to run a generator what then powered a light source whose beam traveled out into space and away from the centrifuge.

      Whether a Bessler wheel was turning about its axle on the Earth or aboard a rotating centrifuge out in space, the wheel would not be an "isolated system" because energy would always be extracted from the wheel's weights and be leaving the wheel in some way. Even if the wheel was not rotating about its axle and extracting any energy from its moving weights on either the Earth or while located on the rotating centrifuge out in space, the Bessler wheel would still not be an isolated system because the Earth's gravity field or the local centrifugal forces caused by the rotating centrifuge would still be applying forces to the wheel's unshifting weights. To truly be an isolated system, one of Bessler's wheels would have to be floating motionless out in space by itself away from any nearby gravity fields and outputting no energy at the expense of the mass of its weights.

      Also, you seem to be addressing KB in your comments. Just so you know, I am not he.

      Delete
    21. I’m not sure how I can say it more plainly, the weights fall because gravity made them fall. Where they fall can make the wheel rotate. With right configuration and I’ll be showing you very soon, the weights can be returned to their prefall position.

      Now you can repeat, parrot fashion, gravity is not an energy source, but I am not so sure. As long as there is an intermediary which can move under the influence of gravity and transfer the force of gravity to enable something else to move, it may not be an energy source but it enable motion.

      Intermediaries can be the weights, or running water etc.

      JC

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    22. Anon 19:11

      In classical mechanics and the law of conservation of energy, energy cannot be created or destroyed; it can only be transferred or converted from one form to another. If B's wheels are producing mechanical energy, it must have a source.

      Gravity itself is not a source of energy, but potential energy can be converted to kinetic energy when an object falls. If B's wheels are somehow harnessing this potential energy and converting it into mechanical energy, the energy is ultimately coming from the gravitational potential energy of the system.

      The idea of extracting energy from materials like wood, brass, steel, and lead using E=mc^2 is not straightforward. The equation you mentioned is part of Einstein's theory of relativity, which deals with the equivalence of mass and energy, but it's generally applicable in situations involving high speeds or massive objects. In everyday scenarios, the energy released from materials is typically related to chemical reactions or other forms of energy conversion, rather than directly using E=mc^2.

      chatgpt

      Delete
    23. Hmm...there is another way to get gravity to extract and output the mass energy from the weights attached to the rim of a wheel. All you'd have to do is let a planet's gravity pull the weights down on one side of a horizontal axle wheel whose axle was connected to an electrical generator. As a weight traveled from 12 o'clock and then reached the rotating wheel's 6 o'clock location, it would immediately be somehow rendered massless after which no work would have to be done to raise it back up along the wheel's ascending side to the 12 o'clock position again. Once there the weight's mass would be restored and the cycle would repeat itself as the weight moved onto the wheel's descending side again. To make the action as smooth as possible, a number of separate weights would be symmetrically attached around the rim of the wheel so that all of the weights on the descending side would have their normal masses while all of the weights on the ascending side would be massless.

      In this setup both the weights and the planet would slowly lose mass as the generator driven by the wheel outputted energy to somewhere else on the planet. Some of that energy could be to fed back to operate whatever method was used to neutralize the mass of the weights on the wheel's ascending side and the rest of the energy could be used to do some useful work somewhere else on the surface of the planet. For this system to be self-sustaining, the amount of energy that had to be fed back to the wheel's mass neutralizing technology would have to be less, hopefully a lot less, than the energy coming out of the electrical generator.

      Obviously something like this would be very advanced technology which we humans don't yet have assuming it's even possible. But, I suspect that Bessler's wheels had to somehow work in a similar way. That is, his wheels did less work against the pull of gravity as their weights rose up on their ascending sides then was done when the weights fell on their descending sides. The question is what kind of "simple" mechanical system could do something like this.

      Wasn't there a witness who tested one of Bessler's wheels and concluded based on the noises it made that the weights on its descending side made impacts against the drum while they didn't do that on the ascending side? He thought impacts on the descending side made the difference even though Bessler wrote somewhere that "no wheel is moved by blows..." or something like that. IIRC there was also a guy named Kendrick who tried to build such an impact driven wheel decades after Bessler died, but could never get it to work right.

      Delete
    24. Anon 20:28 wrote:

      "IIRC there was also a guy named Kendrick who tried to build such an impact driven wheel decades after Bessler died, but could never get it to work right."

      William Kendrick (1725 to 1779) was, according to wikipedia, "...an English novelist, playwright, translator and satirist, who spent much of his career libeling and lampooning his fellow writers."

      He became obsessed with the story of Bessler's wheels and even visited Weissenstein Castle after Bessler had died in 1745 and was shown the parts of the ceiling where the upright supports for the Kassal wheel had been attached. He spent 15 years and a lot of money trying to duplicate Bessler's wheel and was never really successful.

      In 1770 and 1771 he published two works on perpetual motion: "An account of the Automaton, or Perpetual Motion of Orffyreus" and "A Lecture on the Perpetual Motion" and I think the first one is available through archive.org. It is a long rambling incoherent work that shows how ignorant Kendrick was of basic mechanics.

      He eventually announced he had a design for what he called his "Rotator" which somehow used impacts on its descending side to produce torque. It wasn't pm, but he claimed it would greatly improve the efficiency of all rotating machines that it was attached to which I guess meant it would allow them to produce the same output power with less input fuel. IIRC, he wanted to start a company to develop the device, but no one was interested.

      Kendrick eventually drank himself into an early grave at the age of 54. His preferred poison was brandy and plenty of it.

      Delete
    25. Chasing after B's pm wheel secret and only having one failure after another year after year is enough to turn any guy into an alcoholic or a mental case. Only the strongest can keep the chase going for a lifetime which, most likely, will be shortened one.

      Delete
  7. Thanks to the above commenters for their agreeable and logical discussion. It clarified in my mind how some of what Bessler wrote was either intended to be ambiguous, or misleading.

    It wasn’t untruthful but sometimes perhaps mischievous and intended to lead us down the wrong path, or create a false impression not unrelated to the truth but slightly off kilter.

    The overall intention was to tell the truth without giving too much away.

    JC

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    Replies
    1. "The overall intention was to tell the truth without giving too much away."

      Yes! Bessler anticipated selling his pm wheel invention one day and realized that once its secret mechanics was revealed, people would be checking back to see if what he wrote about his wheels in his earlier publications about his wheels was the truth. If he told a lot of big lies about them, then that would have been obvious and he would have been held accountable for the lies. Being exposed as a liar wasn't exactly something someone as religious as Bessler wanted to have happen to him.

      But he really tells us very little about how his wheels worked in his writings other than that they used "preponderance" which just meant they were always heavier on one side than the other. How he did that would cost someone 100,000 thalers! The actual secret of how they worked was most likely carefully hidden as clues in the several drawings of the wheels he put in each book. But good luck finding those clues and using them to make one of his wheels out of. Some people don't even believe there are any such clues! If they are right, then we are all truly clueless and have next to zero chance of ever finding Bessler's pm secrets.

      I wonder how much he charged the public for a copy of GB, AP, or DT? I assume they were given out for free to the big wigs who visited him to personally inspect his wheels.

      Delete
    2. @anon 21:53

      I was able to use time regression remote viewing to get some answers for you. GB sold for 10 pfennigs a copy, AP was 30 pfennigs a copy, and DT was 50 pfennigs per copy. It took 288 pfennigs to equal one thaler which was about a day's wages for most people in early 18th century Saxony. Bessler demanded 100,000 thalers for one of his wheels. A big professor like Wagner made about 3,000 thalers per year. You were right about the rich who viewed Bessler's wheels. They all got free signed copies of whatever books Bessler had available at the time of their visits.

      Delete
    3. I always wondered about those original prices anon 21:53. Thanks for the info.

      Delete
    4. @anon21:53
      It sounds like his books sold for what would be a few dollars a copy in modern money. I've always wondered if B wrote other books about his wheels that we don't know about yet. Wouldn't it be cool to find one nowadays and get it translated in English? I also wish we had English translations of any newspaper articles written about him and his wheels from that time. Since he was famous there must have been dozens of such articles. I read somewhere that he wrote a book about Christianity, but I've never seen it discussed on any of the free energy sites. Maybe because it wouldn't have talked about his pm invention?

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    5. chatgpt 18:47 wrote

      "In classical mechanics and the law of conservation of energy, energy cannot be created or destroyed; it can only be transferred or converted from one form to another. If B's wheels are producing mechanical energy, it must have a source.

      Gravity itself is not a source of energy, but potential energy can be converted to kinetic energy when an object falls. If B's wheels are somehow harnessing this potential energy and converting it into mechanical energy, the energy is ultimately coming from the gravitational potential energy of the system.

      The idea of extracting energy from materials like wood, brass, steel, and lead using E=mc^2 is not straightforward. The equation you mentioned is part of Einstein's theory of relativity, which deals with the equivalence of mass and energy, but it's generally applicable in situations involving high speeds or massive objects. In everyday scenarios, the energy released from materials is typically related to chemical reactions or other forms of energy conversion, rather than directly using E=mc^2."

      ChatGPT makes more sense than most. KB recognizes that his theory needs an energy source, so he invented one. However he has been questioned on this repeatably over the years and has no answer. All masses are in constant motion all the time depending on your viewing Frame of Reference. Yet somehow because his weights are in an up and down rotation they are a special circumstance and shed mass as energy at a greater rate than any other mass not in that special rotation.

      B's wheels continually replenished PE and were self-moving, and could also perform mechanical work at the same time. Since they could output mechanical energy they required a source of replenishing input energy that could be transformed into that mechanical energy output. In effect they needed a source of replenishing pseudo/quasi energy to then transform into the mechanical energy output. Kinetic Energy in Mechanics is the capacity to do Work (f x d). Momentum and Kinetic Energy are facets of the same mass in motion. Both have units of mass and velocity. Therefore any object with mv momentum also has 1/2mv^2 kinetic energy which is its capacity to do work. Karl and B. said it gained, and had innate momentum. And there it is, a plausible source to be harnessed of quasi-energy to be transformed into very real kinetic energy to do very real external work. The mechanical relationships is an engineering problem.

      Chatnicely

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    6. Chatnicely wrote:

      "B's wheels continually replenished PE and were self-moving, and could also perform mechanical work at the same time."

      If I understand Ken B's theory correctly, he's saying that in B's wheels, as a weight moved from 12 to 6 o'clock, it lost a certain amount of gpe which was then immediately used to increase the rotational kinetic energy of all parts of the wheel around its axle. But, as that weight then rose from 6 back to 12 again and regained its original gpe relative to the Earth, that weight removed and used a little LESS of the wheel's rotational kinetic energy that it had previously delivered to it in order to do this.

      This kind of fits in with Bessler's great craftsman hint about being able to "easily" throw up a heavy weight. Ken B has a explanation as to how B's wheel mechanics did this that involves the reverse swinging of the ascending side weight levers that I won't go into. But, basically, it's a mechanical trick that lets the weights on a wheel's ascending side effectively feel less of the force of gravity acting on them.

      As a result of this process, a little extra rotational kinetic energy was left behind in the wheel each time one of its weights traveled completely around it. With all of the weights doing this as they traveled around the wheel, the wheel would keep mysteriously gaining rotational kinetic energy and its speed would accelerate. A wheel's accumulating rotational kinetic energy could also be drained off to power some outside machine attached to the wheel's axle. If that happened, then the wheel's speed would become constant as it ran the machine.

      According to Ken B, all of the mechanical energy coming out of one of B's wheels as it rotated had to be paid for by a slow and steady decrease in the masses of all of the subatomic particles in all of the atoms of the wheel's lead weights. This did not involve any kind of nuclear reactions taking place in the lead atoms.

      Delete
    7. You're not fooling anyone Ken!!

      Delete
    8. (Part 1)

      The theory you've presented seems to describe a perpetual motion machine, which is a device that supposedly operates indefinitely without an external energy source. Let's break down the key components of the theory and address some of the issues:

      1. **Loss and Gain of Gravitational Potential Energy (GPE):**
      - The weight moving from 12 to 6 o'clock loses GPE, which is then used to increase the rotational kinetic energy of the wheel. This process is feasible and adheres to basic physics principles.
      2. **Return of Weight and Reduction in Rotational Kinetic Energy Usage:**
      - The weight rising from 6 back to 12 o'clock regains its GPE, but supposedly uses a little less rotational kinetic energy than it delivered previously. This statement is problematic as it suggests a net gain in energy, violating the conservation of energy principle.
      3. **Mechanical Trick to Reduce Gravity's Effect:**
      - The explanation involves a mechanical trick that reduces the effective force of gravity on the ascending weights. Any mechanism that seems to defy gravity needs to be thoroughly examined, as it might be a source of misunderstanding or misconception.
      4. **Accumulation of Rotational Kinetic Energy:**
      - The claim is that the wheel mysteriously gains rotational kinetic energy as weights travel around it. This contradicts the conservation of energy unless there's an external energy source, which is not mentioned.
      5. **Energy Drain for External Use:**
      - The wheel's rotational kinetic energy can supposedly be drained off to power an external machine without a corresponding loss in the wheel's energy. This would violate the second law of thermodynamics, which states that energy cannot be transferred from a cooler body to a hotter body without external work being done.
      6. **Energy Source from Decreasing Mass of Atoms:**
      - The theory proposes that the energy output is paid for by a slow and steady decrease in the masses of subatomic particles in all atoms of the wheel's lead weights. This concept is not consistent with known physics. Changing the mass of atoms in such a manner would require a release of energy on a nuclear scale, which is not mentioned in the theory.

      The principles outlined in the theory seem to violate well-established scientific principles, and any practical implementation would be met with skepticism until thoroughly validated through rigorous scientific scrutiny and experimentation.

      Delete
    9. (Part 2)

      Rigorous scientific scrutiny and experimentation are essential steps in the process of evaluating any scientific theory or claim. Here's an explanation of the key elements involved:

      1. **Peer Review:**
      - Scientific research undergoes a process called peer review, where experts in the relevant field critically evaluate the methodology, results, and conclusions of a study before it is published. This helps ensure that the research meets high scientific standards.

      2. **Experimental Design:**
      - Experiments must be well-designed, with careful consideration of variables, controls, and statistical methods. A good experimental design minimizes bias and confounding factors, allowing for valid and reliable results.

      3. **Reproducibility:**
      - Scientific experiments should be reproducible by independent researchers. If a particular finding cannot be replicated under similar conditions by different scientists, it raises doubts about the validity of the original results.

      4. **Quantitative Analysis:**
      - Results should be presented quantitatively whenever possible. This involves using numerical data and statistical analyses to draw conclusions, providing a more objective and reliable basis for scientific claims.

      5. **Null Hypothesis Testing:**
      - The scientific method involves formulating a hypothesis and testing it against a null hypothesis. The null hypothesis assumes that there is no effect or no difference, and experimental results are compared to this baseline to assess statistical significance.

      6. **Controlled Experiments:**
      - Controlled experiments involve manipulating one variable while keeping others constant to isolate the effects of the manipulated variable. This helps establish causal relationships between variables.

      7. **Openness and Transparency:**
      - Researchers are expected to be transparent about their methods, data, and analyses. Open sharing of information allows others to scrutinize and replicate the work, contributing to the overall reliability of scientific knowledge.

      8. **Expert Evaluation:**
      - Scientific claims often undergo evaluation by experts in the relevant field who can assess the theoretical framework, experimental design, and interpretation of results. Expertise ensures a nuanced understanding of the subject matter.

      9. **Consistency with Existing Knowledge:**
      - Any new scientific claim should be consistent with existing scientific knowledge. If a theory contradicts well-established principles, it requires particularly robust evidence and scrutiny.

      10. **Publication in Reputable Journals:**
      - Peer-reviewed journals with a strong reputation in the relevant field are a critical platform for disseminating scientific research. The peer review process ensures that the work meets high standards before publication.

      In the context of perpetual motion or free energy devices, any claim that appears to violate the laws of thermodynamics would be subjected to intense scrutiny. The scientific community, through peer review and independent testing, would rigorously evaluate the theoretical basis and experimental evidence supporting such claims. It's important to note that many perpetual motion claims have historically failed this scrutiny, as they often conflict with well-established principles of physics.

      www.getreal.com

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    10. Can you name the steps KB wheel passed.

      Delete
    11. Afaik, Ken's version of Bessler's wheel has only been simmed and shown to work by him so far and he never actually built it. But, he claims that it took him about a decade and making two thousand sims to get to the point where he was confident he had finally found Bessler's secret pm design. Ken seems not bothered by others who may not accept the design he's found which is what he expected to happen. However, he also says that he's provided all of the exact specifications for the parts in Bessler's wheels that will allow others to sim or build the design and prove to themselves that it is a runner. Although he won't provide others with copies of his sim files, he's not really hiding the details of how he found the design.

      I think this is his way of filtering out the most serious Bessler pm wheel chasers from those who only have a casual interest in them because the most serious will be simming and building the design using the instructions he provides in his book while others will not. He claims that Bessler left very precise part specification clues in his drawings which were intended to prove his priority to the unique design as well as allow others to duplicate his wheels after he died if the invention was never sold and then eventually revealed which is of course what happened.

      I think there are different ways of describing how Bessler's wheels were able to output energy to outside machines. Ken's particular description sounds like its a variation of the concept of heat flow used in thermodynamics except that he uses the "flow" of mass and its equivalent energy out from a wheel's lead weights and then into all parts of the wheel to increase their rotation speed about the center of the axle as the wheel's rotational kinetic energy increases. A wheel's rotational kinetic energy and its mass equivalent could then flow out through the axle to any external machines that were attached to the axle in some way. This is similar to the flow of thermal energy from a hot object to a cooler one in thermodynamics.

      Apparently this flow can only take place if the weights on a wheel's ascending side do not rise steadily like they fall steadily on the descending side. The ascending side weights must first rise slower as their levers approach 9:00 and swing back away from their drum stops, but, then suddenly as they pass 9:00, they must rise rapidly as their levers swing back toward their drum stops again. I think if you then calculate the average drop speed of a weight on the descending side and compare it to the average rise speed of a weight on the ascending side, you will see that they are not equal and that on average the descending side weights are always dropping a little faster than the ascending side weights are rising.

      This then means that the descending side weights are always losing GPE at a slightly faster rate than it is being gained back by the ascending side weights. This results in the weights in a rotating Bessler's wheel constantly losing GPE at a small rate which they instantly turn into additional rotating kinetic energy to speed up the wheel. That lost GPE has to have a source and Ken claims that it can only be the mass of the wheel's lead weights themselves. The loss of that energy and mass from the lead weights does not require any sort of nuclear reactions to take place. It just automatically and slowly happens whenever a wheel is allowed to run and perform work.

      Trying to prove that this is how Bessler's pm wheels actually worked however won't be easy. First we need to have a working physical wheel. Next we would have to accurately measure the masses of its weights with fraction of a nanogram accuracy. Finally, we'd have to let the wheel constantly perform external work at its maximum power level for years and then again weigh the weights to see if they had in fact lost any mass during the test period. If they did lose a measurable amount then that would prove this is what actually happened in Bessler's wheels.

      Delete
    12. Here is some advice , Gobledegoop is best replaced by real world experiments , until then it is best not to act or refer to your theory's as facts.

      Delete
    13. @anon16:03

      It sounds to me like you have read Ken B's book and are now one of his "disciples". I have to admit though that the description you give makes some sense and it does at least give us a source for the energy Bessler's wheel produced. But I can see an obvious problem with it.

      If it is valid, then it means that Bessler never actually had a pm wheel! That's because each wheel could only hold so much lead and, if the wheel ran long enough while constantly outputting energy and mass while doing external work, eventually all of the mass of its weights would flow to the outside of the wheel and it would have to stop. At that time all of the wheel's lead weights would be massless! Is something like that even possible?

      Of course, that could take a very long time, but it would not take forever to do. It might take many millions of years and who would be around to see the wheel finally stop? Such an experiment can only be a "thought" type experiment.

      Actually, I doubt if one of Bessler's wooden wheels could have lasted for more than a few decades at most if it was running constantly and only got periodic lubrication. Wood eventually rots away and even the best steel will corrode and wear away over time. But with the best of maintenance, maybe a Bessler wheel could run for centuries? We do have old wood hull sail ships that are centuries old and with maintenance are still seaworthy. With such maintenance a Bessler wheel would slowly be replaced piece by piece over time as its parts rotted away or wore out so that it would always be in an "almost like new" condition. Periodically replacing all of the wheel's lead weights with "fresh" unused lead weights having their full normal masses would also assure that the weights never got a chance to become totally massless if that is possible. So, with such continuous maintenance, one of Bessler's wheels might be able to be "perpetual" in practice even though it would still not be in principle which we can think of as what would happen if the maintenance did not include periodic replacements of its lead weights.

      If think that if one of Bessler's wheels could run continuously for say at least a thousand years without having its lead weights replaced, then most people would not feel uncomfortable calling it "perpetual" even though in reality it wasn't.

      Delete
    14. Will anything ever come from the design Ken B found? Who knows? Will anything ever come from the design John has promised to show us come this year's end? Again, who knows? At a minimum they, like many others before them, are making additions to the colorful history of perpetual motion machines that, even if they turn out to be useless non runners, may still give others ideas for new designs to try in the future.

      Delete
    15. Interesting discussion, but unfortunately all of the theorizing in the world isn't going to get a real world wheel built and running.

      Meanwhile, while all of you geniuses are frying your brain cells trying to analyze Bessler's wheels, John has been quietly busy cooking up his tasty Christmas pudding for us (the nutritious, cake like UK version, that is, and not the gooey US version). He's using plenty of brown sugar, butter, milk, dates, raisins, currents, orange and chopped mixed fruit peels, self-rising flour, and cinnamon. Soon the mixture will come to a boil and, after adding the baking powder, he'll be pouring it all into a large pentagonal mold to cool.

      It will finally be served to us come the end of this year and then we shall all finally have our appetites for detailed information about his secret wheel design satisfied!

      Delete
    16. Don't be surprised everyone when come the New Year that bowl of pudding that gets slid under your noses is completely EMPTY!

      I'm still trying to figure out what his excuse will be this time. Maybe some nasty little accident that injures his hand and keeps him from making drawings or taking and uploading photos? Well, we'll find out in the next three weeks or so. No doubt it will sound plausible and we'll see everyone posting their condolences and wishing him a speedy recovery. After that expect his "big reveal" to be delayed for yet another six months or so. Then it will be time for his next plausible sounding excuse!

      Delete
    17. I'm pretty sure this time JC will deliver us a filled bowl. I just hope it contains some "tasty pudding" and not just a tasteless lump of goo. I've seen too much of that over the years.

      Delete
    18. And along with John's yummy Christmas pudding, holiday chocolates will also be handled out!

      https://i.pinimg.com/originals/4a/6e/bd/4a6ebd5b6414af1f0e2aeaca11974a66.jpg

      Shemp

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    19. Hi, Shemp!
      I think John's also adding pieces of these specially imported oranges from Japan to his Christmas pudding for us! Mmmm...

      https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f7/ec/91/f7ec9143f600488f1c2e977da12d118f.jpg

      Delete
    20. @anon 01:42

      I hope John doesn't forget to add the most important holiday flavoring ingredient to his Christmas pudding for us...RUM!

      Delete
    21. Rum?! Sounds like a good idea. I think that's the William Kendrick recipe for Christmas pudding! Lol!

      Delete
    22. Kendrick would skip the Christmas pudding and just consume the rum! A lot of pudding in his stomach would only interfere with the absorption of all of the alcohol in the rum and make it take long for him to get a good buzz going.

      Delete

The Legend of Bessler’s (Orffyreus’s) Wheel - The Facts

  The Legend of Bessler’s Wheel or the Orffyreus Wheel and the verifiable facts. Some fifty years ago, after I had established (to my satisf...