There are many who will strongly disagree but.....
I've discussed the issue of patenting Bessler's wheel before, both here on my blog as well as on the besslerwheel forum, but since the question has arisen again I have decided to restate my own view.
I know and agree with all the arguments for patenting the device, but there is one overwhelming reason why it shouldn't be patented. Any government that sees this device as harming tax revenues from the sale of oil will be tempted to bury it under a secrecy order. Have no doubt, it will affect them in time and maybe sooner.
It will also have an impact on all the alterntive energies being so expensively researched. The solar panels so assiduously promoted even in our own fog-bound island will suffer a sudden decline in sales, possibly throwing people out of work and closing firms down. Plenty of temptation and plenty of excuses for a government to kill it quickly.
And don't even apply for a patent even if you intend sharing it freely afterwards, because a patent application can lead to a subsequent secrecy order.
OK, so what do we do? As others have advised, share it freely across the world by internet, video and other public media.
How to get remuneration? The media will come knocking at your door offering wads of cash for your story - take it or leave it, the choice will be yours and even if you do take it, it will still be a seven day wonder and then they'll forget you.
Don't patent, the risk it too great that it will be taken and buried.
JC
Any government that tries to bury the wheel under a secrecy order would,to my mind be treading on dangerous ground.Democracy means that every government is sovereign and it would be no problem to play the one against the other.
ReplyDeleteThen again any country that sees that the quality of life has drastically improved in countries that adopt the wheel,would sooner or later have to buckle.With democracy its the economy that has the final say.
On the other hand protecting the intellectual property of the wheel is a real problem,even greater than making the wheel itself.Perhaps we pool our minds with a concerted effort to come up with the best solution against exploitation from immoral governments.
The patent question is irrelevant; everyone knows you can't get a patent on a wheel that can turn itself, and more, forever.
ReplyDeleteSince you can't get a patent anyway, you'd have to share it; and the governments couldn't "bury" it under a "secrecy order".
If you thought they could, how could you know for sure that they already haven't?
10 weeks -
Excuse me Doug,..You can patent a perpetual motion wheel providing it is a working one.It is a waste of money anyway because there is so much corruption they are powerless.
ReplyDeleteOne way would be to prove ownership.We are looking for suggestions if you have any,just believe the wheel already exists.
To patent , you have to invent something . The Bessler wheel was invented 300 years ago by Johann Bessler , therefore it cannot be patented .
ReplyDeleteSincerely Ealadha
It was never patented, Ealadha.
ReplyDeleteHe probably didn't try too hard to get a patent because he knew he wouldn't get one because either it was a fake (the most obvious explanation), or if it was genuine, and was powered by some derivative of solar radiation, his greedy nature got the better of him.
Either way, he got what he deserved.
Trevor, a "working perpetual motion wheel" is a paradox. From the wiki:
"Perpetual motion describes hypothetical machines that operate or produce useful work indefinitely and, more generally, hypothetical machines that produce more work or energy than they consume, whether they might operate indefinitely or not.
There is a scientific consensus that perpetual motion in an isolated system would violate the first law of thermodynamics and/or the second law of thermodynamics. Machines which extract energy from seemingly perpetual sources—such as ocean currents—are capable of moving "perpetually" (for as long as that energy source itself endures), but they are not considered to be perpetual motion machines because they are consuming energy from an external source and are not isolated systems. (In reality, no system can ever be a fully isolated system.) Similarly, machines which comply with both laws of thermodynamics but access energy from obscure sources are sometimes referred to as perpetual motion machines, although they also do not meet the standard criteria for the name.
Despite the fact that successful isolated system perpetual motion devices are physically impossible in terms of our current understanding of the laws of physics, the pursuit of perpetual motion remains popular."
I won't cut and paste the whole thing, but I'll post the link. Everyone should read the entire entry; it includes sections on techniques, patents, and inventions (Bessler is in there).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion
My view is that the Bessler wheel was patented centuries ago because MT is the patent .
ReplyDeleteEaladha
MT contains all the devices that do NOT work.
DeleteThe only time you would patent something is if it works!
I believe the mechanisms of the wheels are shown in MT .
DeleteEaladha
Justsomeone said: Ealadha, you don't know what your talking about!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteJohn, with Jim's plan a government could not silence the invention.
Doug, he didn't patent it because there was no patent protection back then.
I do know what i am talking about , the word patent means to lay bare to public view - that is what MT is , MT is the patent .
DeleteEaladha
Justsomeone:
ReplyDeleteFrom this page: http://ip-science.thomsonreuters.com/support/patents/patinf/patentfaqs/history/
"The first recorded patent of invention was granted to John of Utynam. In 1449, he was awarded a 20-year monopoly for a glass-making process previously unknown in England (subsequently, he supplied glass for the windows of Eton College Chapel, UK)."
1449!
Granted Doug,..Bessler probably did not trust patenting because you have to submit all the plans and even that is risky,never mind costly.
ReplyDeleteWho on earth is wiki.You speak as though they are the last word in the halls of scientific knowledge.
Who is wiki? You've never heard of wikipedia?
DeleteIt's the online encyclopedia. It's very accurate.
I read it when I have a question about something, and when I doublecheck elsewhere, the wiki has never been wrong.
You have a touching faith in Wikipedia, Doug. I read their page on perpetual motion, and as I expected they set up a lot of "straw man" inventions, but ignore all of the best examples (except Bessler).
DeleteHere are just three such examples:—
The "Thesta Distatica" a.k.a. "Testatika" of the Methernitha group.
The work of Stanley Meyer on disassociating water into hydrogen and oxygen with minimal energy input.
The "Magnet Motors" e.g. the Kawai motor of US Pat 5,436,518, or the Yasunori Takahashi motor (Sciex UK), or the Kure Tekko motor, etc.
I appreciate your enthusiasm in perpetual motion; are you sure you read the whole page? Bessler is mentioned and one of his drawings is included for people who don't like to read.
DeleteThe Testatika pulls static electricity out of the air? Then it's an open system, it doesn't fall under the definition of PM. Read the definition again.
Stan Meyer was successfully sued in court by two investors; his water fuel cell used conventional electrolysis and his invention was discredited by scientific journals, etc.
oh sorry you said except Bessler.
Deleteall examples of perpetual motion are "Straw men", once you understand the concept and the definition.
Delete[I've been unable to post here for several hours. Here goes again, on another computer & browser]
DeleteThe definition of perpetual motion has changed over time, to include reference to energy, which did not appear at all in earlier definitions. Anyway, if a Bessler wheel turns out to exploit energy from a source like the rotating Earth, or even some as-yet undiscovered source, I'll be happy to let others decide whether it's perpetual motion or not.
That's the beauty of science and scientific definition, over time they get more accurate as understanding grows. In Bessler's day, perpetual motion might not have referred to energy and systems, so the term was inaccurately used.
DeleteBut now it does refer to energy and open and closed systems. So if a Bessler wheel turns out to be an open system, exploiting energy from outside it, which I believe it was, it wouldn't fall under the definition of perpetual motion as it's now understood to be defined.
In England grants in the form of “letters patent” were issued by the sovereign to inventors who petitioned and were approved: a grant of 1331 to John Kempe and his Company is the earliest authenticated instance of a royal grant made with the avowed purpose of instructing the English in a new industry.
ReplyDeleteIn the reign of Queen Anne (1702–1714) lawyers of the English Court developed the requirement that a written description of the invention must be submitted.
In Germany, because of the large number of separate ruling entities the first unified German Patent Act was adopted on 25 May 1877, which established an authority tasked with reviewing and awarding patents.
So Bessler had no patenting system available.
JC
In Germany; but if he really wanted to patent, he could have applied for an international one in England.
DeleteTrevor
ReplyDeletecongratulations on building a running wheel.
Tevor
ReplyDeletegame over?
I am happy if Trevor has succeeded and them CIA remote viewing people have not succeeded , i hope they never get a Bessler wheel .
ReplyDeleteEaladha
I'll tell you guys ... I have something here that I might be able to get a patent on without a prototype ... that's how clear the principle is . Every day I have to wonder where Bessler got this idea . It blows my mind how freaking smart he was ! This thing is gonna change either the definition of gravity or the coe law or both.
ReplyDeleteAnswering someone's opinion above as to whether someone could patent Bessler's wheel : To be honest I must have thought about it as much as he did so how about co-inventor ? I know you guys think that you don't like me , the way I just pop in and talk smack ... no pictures or anything ...but one day whether you like me or not I will be appreciated .