Thursday, 10 January 2013

Perpetual motion or gravitywheel or infinity engine.

I was thinking about whether Bessler's wheel was a perpetual motion machine and/or a gravitywheel.  We routinely describe Bessler's wheel as a Perpetual Motion machine but I have always argued against the term because, back in Bessler's day, they defined it as a machine which would run with no external energy source, which is obviously impossible.  But when you consider the words themselves, out of context, there is some validity in describing his wheel as a Perpetual Motion machine.

Perpetual Motion means motion of some kind which is never ending. This definition is open to interpretation; it can also mean that the energy source is always available, so the machine keeps running. So a perpetual motion machine would run for ever as long as the materials of which is made did not wear out or break down - and its energy source was always present - a description straight from Bessler.

A theoretical perpetual motion machine would run for ever, or as buzz lightyear said, to infinity and beyond! If there was a way of continually topping up an auto's fuel tank while its engine was running, that would also seem to comply with the definition of a perpetual motion machine, i.e. as long as its parts last and it has enough fuel to continue running.

Talking of infinity, the symbol for infinity refers to something without any limit, and is a concept relevant in a number of fields, predominantly mathematics and physics. The English word infinity derives from the Latin, infinitas, which can be translated as unboundedness, itself derived from the Greek word apeiros, meaning endless.  So perpetual and infinity both mean endless. Endless also means extending indefinitely which is what we do when we continually top up the fuel tank to keep the auto engine turning, or continuously supply electricity to electric machines.

So Bessler's machine was a perpetual motion machine as long as it had access to an unending supply of energy - which I believe was the force of gravity. The infinity symbol, called a lemniscate, see above, looks like the figure eight lying on its side. Coincidentally I have argued on one of  my websites that the shape seems to relate to the movements of a person on a swing, demonstrating parametric oscillation.  What a marvellous coincidence if this shape should prove to be representative of the action of the weights within Bessler's wheel - an infinity symbold for an infinitly moving wheel.

So we can conclude that both terms, perpetual motion and gravitywheel, can apply; perpetual motion is endless if it has an energy supply and in Bessler case the energy was the force of gravity.

JC

10a2c5d26e15f6g7h10ik12l3m6n14o14r5s17tu6v5w4y4-3,’.

88 comments:

  1. Yep - in optical systems this symbol is also used to indicate infinity. Optics of course being a combination of applied physics and mathematics. One can find it on every manual focus lens.

    I wonder what terms science eventually, when confronted with a working gravity engine, will use describing such a converter or engine. That is once it has passed Schopenhauer's 3rd stage - acceptance as self-evident. Maybe a Parametric Mass Exchange System or (tongue-in-cheek) "preponderance converter". I think that the eventual conclusion will be fourfold:

    a) It is NOT perpetual motion;
    b) It does NOT violate any laws of physics; except maybe -depending on construction- Newton's third;
    c) A combination of gravity, inertia, and CF is what makes it possible;
    d) Several embodiments are possible, the most effective however those that use parametric effects.

    I also think they will find that its more simple and basic than anticipated. Some of you may be familiar with my rantings about parametric oscillators.

    I have some news about that, especially with regard to c) above. I've constructed and tested successfully a (8th or 5th) quadrant of a wheel, which may have been a variation of Bessler's wheel. But I cheated and made it electromechanical. That achievement is certainly not unique, as a quick look on Youtube proves. But those designs used motor-driven weighted levers and are consequently very inefficient. But it does prove the "overbalancing" concept. It is not powerful enough however, and that's where parametric effects come in.

    I found the "key ingredients" for a very promising embodiment to be:

    - The design has to be asymmetrical
    - Weights (pendula) should gain energy from their own swinging, just as Bessler stated
    - Only one full swing per octant is allowed as indicated (hinted) by Bessler in his "and still you do not understand?" diagram. This is a diagram indicating a (small!) window in which "things" (in this case: pendula) should be activated c.q. triggered, swing out, swing in, be caught and latched on return, and reset. If implemented correctly, none of these actions exceed the available "energy budget"
    - By parametric effects, each full swing achieves not only overbalancing (preponderance of weight when swung out) but, in addition, exerts two distinct downward pulls on the descending side of the wheel.
    - The pendula need to be arrested (latched) immediately after each completed swing. Gravity resets the mechanism - again as per Bessler's diagram which is remarkably applicable and accurate.

    To summarize: it is the combination of things (overbalancing to get things started, plus parametric "pumping" effects) that makes it act powerful enough to drive a wheel with sufficient energy to spare to do work.

    I will now attempt to realize that same design completely mechanically. This can be done in several ways, but for now I will just try to replicate the simple electromechanical version.

    Once that works reliably, it is a simple matter of assembling identical octagonal wheel sections connected by a simple mechanical timing and control mechanism. Am I close? I don't know. Is it what Bessler did? Maybe. But it can be done in several other perhaps more efficient ways, which I might prefer. The only critical component is the timing, as Bessler hinted.

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  2. Pretty soon there is going to be no one left to post on this blog because these anons are truly obnocious.
    They abuse their anon status because they think they cannot be traced.
    Something has to be done or I'm out of here.

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    1. LOL! Poor Trevor, with his delusions of grandeur... What does "they think they cannot be traced" mean? Are you going to have them put in JAIL for 'saying things you don't like', Trevor?
      Produce a working wheel or shut up about it, the same goes for the other chancers here, who seem to spend hours every day telling us all about their NON-WORKING wheels, and how wonderful they are GOING to be...

      Anonymous...

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    2. Trevor, I don't know too much about posting, and found that using anonymous was the easiest way to enter my post, I always sign my name at the end, on one post I put my p.o. box address, and John Collins has my e-mail address. So we're not all that bad !

      Stephen Burke.

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  3. @Andre
    If I understand you correctly, Andre, you are looking into the drawing with the 3-fold symmetry which is in the Appendix of "Apologia". That is very interesting for me, because I am also researching that special drawing. I have used it to construct a wheel frame with 3 movable weights. In the simulations this works (without the need for any other levers, ramps or such). Very encouraging. But, in the simulations, it will only work for certain size/weight/friction ratios (makes sense), and in the real physical world, I have not been able to replicate it (yet?). You seem to be using this principle inside one segment of the wheel, rather than for the whole wheel. Do you agree that it should theoretically work for the whole wheel, as well? If not, what do you think I have overlooked?
    Cheers, Mimi

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    1. Hi Mimi - Yes, the drawing that somewhat resembles the radiation hazard symbol. But I interpreted it primarily as a timing chart - white areas are where action(s) take place, black where no actions are performed. Thus, assuming clockwise rotation, I fire my first pendulum in the top right "timing window", return them "in a flash", latch them - all well within 30-35 degrees of rotation. In addition to the (sudden, temporary) overbalancing effect, the wheel receives two downward pushes due to the parametric effect of the pendulum. Just before the first pendulum is fully retracted and latched the next one fires, ("they work in pairs" and "one takes the place of the other") and so on. This gives a rather nice constant torque.

      By the next timing window, the "first" pendulum is completely retracted and latched. Gravity does the rest on the ascending side, and by the time the third timing window is due all is ready to be fired again.

      All octants (8 (or 5) drive elements) in my design are identical, but as a whole, it is always asymmetrical due to the control mechanism (which is simple). Hence, it will self-start or with a small push. Only one octant is active when the pendulum fires in the first timing window, all others are at rest (retracted and latched). Just as the first pendulum is caught from its retrograde swing, the second fires, and so on. It's simple, but timing is essential.

      If I understand correctly what you are asking, yes, elements/octants should be able to work (to be fired) anywhere in the wheel (thus enabling two-directional operation). That is one of the reasons I made it electromechanical first, as that's much easier to control. But I'm not 100% sure I completely grasp what you're asking.

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    2. Andre, thanks for your explanation. Yes, it does look like the radiation hazard symbol, doesn't it? I have interpreted it quite literally and built wheels to look just like that (same angles and inclinations). The black is wood, the white are is empty space. In the 2d-simulation software, I insert a circle into each of the 3 empty spaces - and it turns! In 3d real life, the circle could be a cylinder or a sphere. A sphere obviously is easier, as it does not need to be guided (can bounce around any which way), but has less mass. One of the things the simulation is sort of pragmatical about is angular damping. You have to set it yourself (default is 0.01). But the differential equations for oscillators show that the damping depends on the mass/torque. So: how to construct a real life wheel with damping 0.01? Thats what I am up to right now.

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    3. Very interesting Mimi! I wonder what would happen if you'd construct the same setup -your literal interpretation- with half-moon (half-sphere) shaped Neodymium magnets, repelling, embedded in the wood. A steel bearing ball floating in between. Would give you "automatic" damping of it too.

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    4. Incidentally I heard that's what they found when they sold off (auctioned) Bessler's legacy: lots of brass spheres!

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    5. Where did you hear about the brass balls? hat's interesting news I had not come by so far...

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    6. Mimi, I believe the source is from Grimm. See here: http://www.ursach.ch/Bessler/inventory.html

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    7. Andre, thank you so much - how interesting. I had visited www.ursach.ch a long time ago, when the author was only announcing a wheel, but not describing it. Now all Bessler pages have been removed from the official site, but can still be found under http://www.ursach.ch/Bessler/bessler.php.
      Those pages are in german (no problem for me), oddly enough, the inventory is in English. The approach of the author is very interesting, I see a simularity to the parametric oscillator, as he allows the axle to swing up and down. I wonder why he took it off the official pages (which now only have the Maya Calendar on them).

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    8. You are most welcome, Mimi. Interesting design, isn't it? I always liked it, and did some simulations on it which were quite promising. I think that with some changes (simplify - and of course I would cheat and do it electromechanically) it certainly can work quite well. The resonance he's creating -instead of preventing- is typically something an old fox like Bessler would come up with. The torque storage mechanism is quite clever as well and makes a lot of sense in the context of the "gravity enhanced" free fall pendulum swing.

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  4. I agree with you Trevor...I stopped actively posting mostly because of Doug as he was not being very polite...Rgds...Suresh

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  5. I just wish people could politely agree to disagree but at the same time give an alternative explanation.
    I get tired of people who are just plain otherwise for the sake of it.

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  6. I was thinking, it would improve things if the anonymous posters signed off with their name, at least then we could refer to them by a name instead of anon. Somje do already and it makes things more friendly.

    JC

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    1. That is a great suggestion John.

      Anonymous

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    2. John, I always sign my name although I use the anonymous profile, simply because I don't know how to use the other profiles. As an advert for computer training said, I'm not a dummy {a poke at the 'so and so' for dummies books ) I'm a Newbie, teach me !

      Regards, Stephen Anthony Burke Esquire, Saint Lucia, West Indies.

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    3. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  7. Chris here ,
    John , Bessler didn't need a lawyer to find loop holes like you try to look for . Safe to say his design is in good hands and it won't need you to argue on it's behalf .

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  8. Yes John,..That would be more personal and friendly.If we got to know the person we could strike up friendships and cease being impolite.

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  9. I apologize if I've been impolite, Suresh. I think I might stop posting too.
    PM (infinitegravityenginewheel-) is considered impossible, and I agree.
    I'll check in every once in a while, maybe to see if TG is back 'philosophizing' in capitals in 2 parts.

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    1. Ditto for me. I'll check in every few days to see if TG is back. If not, then I'm out of here. At least what he said made some sense.

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  10. Stay Trevor, please. I think it's useful and grounding to have your input here.

    JC

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  11. Thanks John,..I was not looking for special treatment,only a gentlemans relationship.
    You know one gets a certain gratification out of comparing notes with others just to hear what they think.
    I know I've been promising an imminent wheel but this is because certain guys put pressure on us for results.
    As it happens I am about to finish and test a wheel that uses rythmic centrifugal force to prime the working weights which then turns the wheel by gravity.
    The working weights are used in a certain way to synch the oscillating weights so that they are ready to prime the wheel at the right moment,which is at top of the wheel.
    I see no other way so lets hope it works!

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  12. The most disturbing thing to me is the aspect that anyone/everyone presumes to tout their opinions as psuedo-fact . Many may think that their is no harm in this and that it's just people conversing . I beg to differ . A search for Bessler's wheel on the internet does not bring one to Bessler's wheel ... it brings one to a hierarchy of inflated/deflated egos and fiddle-faddling back patting sickening time passing politeness that hasn't in more years than I've been around these parts resulted in anything except a hopeful yet uncommitted vague glimpse into " Maybeland . "

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    1. I don't pretend to know what in life has made you so bitter and synical all I can say is,thank goodness I'm not on your salary because you would make a terrible boss.
      Take time out and chill.It's been 300 years so whats another couple of years,there's no pressure.
      You've not invested any money in our time so stop acting like a scrooge.

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  13. Hi everybody !
    I would like to thank John Collins for his great research during all these years !
    Foremost , i don't speak ( and write) very well english (thanks to translator ;-) ) , sorry for this ;-(
    My research in free energy became 6 years ago, and there is 1,5 year ago i'm interested about gravity motor , and particularly in Bessler wheel.Of course in the beginning i fall on the research of John (thank again) and , i study night and day the whritings and the drawings of Bessler.
    Why i send this message ? Because i think (and i hope) that i find many clues and, with these i can explain some interrogation like : weight spherical , peacock’s tail , the famous V ... and other interesting things !
    I can't tell you all i find here and i m sorry for that ! But , and it s the intention of this message , when the wheel will (PERHAPS) turn a day , you will be the first persons i show you . My intention is to give it to the world ( freely of course... and if i m not the false way ) and i want to thank John in first because without him,no Bessler wheel for me !
    Why i can't give you details ? For 2 reasons :
    First : i don't want to disturb your own research ... and my clues are in the same line of ThechnoGuy ( When i see him , i was surprised that someone has the same "point of vue" ) that why i don't want to be b... ( sorry for the bad words !)
    Second : 2 weeks ago , i explain all my theory to a friend ... and he understand nothings ! ( he is more clever that me !) , then imagine how i can explain this by the words and in a language that it s not usual for me !
    Just one thing : i try the half mecanism on my wheel ( just 2 ray of the wheel) and its work only like the clues gave by Bessler ! In the coming weeks i will try to find the other half mecanism ( normaly i have it on paper, but it s different between a drawing and the reality ! I took all the summer to develop the first half mecanism !)...
    I will keep you about my fail or succes ( with picture and explain to be more clear ).
    Thank to read me and i hope you can understand me !

    Robert . . .

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    1. "Hi everybody !"
      "I would like to thank John Collins for his great research during all these years !"

      Well said. Odd for someone that knows little english. Then while telling us that you don't speak and write english very well, the grammer goes down the pooper real fast.

      First:
      Second:
      PERHAPS
      ThechnoGuy (what a misspelling)
      ...my clues are in the same line of ThechnoGuy...
      300+ words

      I think I smell a rat ...

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    2. Thank you Anonymous !
      i don' t speak enough english to see the subtlety of a conversation!(your message are good or not for me ?) .
      When i saw TG writing , it was very interesting ( in the beginning )but i was fast "dropped" ( it s good ? )and i said to myself : it s not possible to find something concret with this !?
      "My" concept doesn't use cord,spring or other complicated things. Not for the moment.The viewpoint is the same (using portrait and MT and written of Bessler) but the development is totally different .
      I m not here to make long sterile message with no concrete elements, but just to thank John and give at all the wheel if it works a day .
      I have very good hope and here is my approach.
      I know your deception about TG and that why i was febrile to write this message.

      The important here , is that you now know my existence if possibly i find something a day .
      Until this day , i don't think i will come here writting again ! The important is not writting the things , but it s making things !

      Thank at all and ... be happy !


      Robert ...

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    3. Thank andre !
      I continue to read this blog but i probably never write here , too much negative energy for me ! This quest is just a hobby for me to share and talk about , not to denigrate and make discuss who never stop . We turning round , but not our wheel ;-)
      I think , for my part , the most best choice to explain my conception of clue is to make a blog . I propably do it when i will have time . First , it s to finish the wheel , it s the only way to show you my opinion , even if the wheel never turn ( it could make new idea for someone ).
      I understand too that there are so many poeple on the world who said : i will find the solution , it s certain ! i don't have this pretension , i just feel all the clue i study sinze 1,5 years are all "converging" to something who's logical , and in this optic , i must thank John before , perhaps , find something who's working , it's just to be polite with him , nothing else.
      Explain "my" concept will be too long and too hard here ( sorry ), and a real conception is more "talking" then all discour of the world .
      Like we say : wait and see ...
      PS: i don't put an identity here ... because i don't know how do that simply ! I just take the "anonymous" by ease , and i think the identity is less important then the message ( to be famous is ephemeral at scale of men ).
      Remember : this is just a hobby to share , i m not and will not live with this perhaps invention ! The real life is not that ...
      On these good words ... i must go working!


      Robert ...

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    4. "I think I smell a rat ..."

      have you considered bathing? sorry I forgot trolls never bathe!

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    5. Voilà , après quelques années , je suis toujours sur les traces du secret de la roue de Bessler . Je me permet d'écrire en Français car cela est plus aisé pour moi et cela me permettra de mieux comprendre les insultes qui découlent de mes propos;-)
      Il est d'ailleurs dommage de venir aider une communauté gratuitement et de n'en retirer que des médisances . Bref , j'ai laissé de coté mon orgueil pour écrire à nouveau sur ce blog .
      Les essais et l'étude des portraits m'ont permis d'affiner la recherche et de confirmer que j'étais sur la bonne voie . Il faut encore que je remonte la roue car dernièrement j'ai trouvé l'astuce permettant d'écarter le poids qui se trouve à 3h . D'après le décryptage , je pensais que la descente du poids se trouvant à 6h permettrait d'effectuer le mouvement mais après beaucoup d'essais , j'ai du abandonner ce système . J'ai alors trouvé une autre astuce , et cet astuce se retrouve dans le portrait principal de Bessler !
      La roue remontée sera la première mouture des roues de Bessler . Ensuite viendront les améliorations , càd les barres transversalles qui optimiseront la roue .
      Tout ce que je raconte et MA solution à l'énigme de Bessler est compulsable gratuitement depuis quelques années sur internet . Il suffit de chercher un peu .
      Je vois souvent sur ce blog des gens qui s'interrogent sur une éventuelle personne qui aurait trouvé ( ou serait proche de ) la solution de l'énigme et lorsqu'on intervient pour le leur dire , cela ne suscite aucune curiosité . Il y a quelque chose de paradoxale .
      Je continue seul à découvrir des indices passionnant qui sont au départ une suite de coincidences et qui deviennent dans la pratique un moyen cohérent fonctionnel . C'est d'ailleurs la toute l'étrangeté de ma découverte : tout fonctionne dans la réalité comme cela est dessiner sur les portraits ( il faut DISCERNER la solution , et c'est ce que j'ai fait dès le début) .
      D'ailleurs , et si je suis toujours dans le vrai , Bessler a non seulement représenté les pièces du mécanisme ainsi que la position qu'elles doivent occuper , mais il a aussi représenté l'endroit exact ou les commutations devaient avoir lieu .

      Robert

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    7. Voilà , pour vous aider un peu je vais vous donner l'adresse de mon blog :
      http://robessler.blogspot.be/search?updated-max=2016-02-01T20:43:00%2B01:00&max-results=7
      Etant un blog comme celui sur lequel j'écris en ce moment , pour suivre la chronologie de mes recherches il faut commencer par la fin .
      Que dire de plus si ce n'est que l'aventure continue pour moi .

      A très bientôt ,

      Robert

      Ps: j'écris non plus sous l'anonymat mais grâce à ma signature google , ce qui ôtera ultérieurement des doutes sur mon identité . . . sait-on jamais que je sois dans le vrai ;-)

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    8. Bonjour ,
      Voilà je suis en train de remonter la roue pour la Xième fois.En parallèle de cela , j'ai un peu étoffé mon blog . Vous y verrez comment j'ai coulé mes poids en plomb . Même si cela peut paraître simple cela demande quelques techniques .

      A+

      Robert . . .

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    9. Bonjour ,
      Je pense qu'avant-hier j'ai fait un progrès considérable dans la compréhension du système . Cela fait un moment que j'essaie de faire remonter le poids se trouvant à 6h suffisamment haut que pour faire tourner la roue . Jusqu'à présent je n'y arrive pas .
      Puis m'est venu l'idée de "figer" tous les poids afin de voir le comportement global de la roue . Et bien lorsque le poids reste déployé ( = éloigné du centre de la roue ) à 6h , la roue tourne assez facilement . Il ne reste plus qu'à adapter les leviers pour faire remonter ce poids un peu plus tard ( lorsque la roue aura effectué une rotation d'1/8 de tour) . Encore beaucoup d'heure de travail en perspective , mais c'est ça le prix de la réussite . . .


      Robert . . .

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  14. Chris here ,
    It is very important for me to attempt to " clean the slate " so to speak in this arena as far as all the petty hangings on of the past and any time for that matter . What I am about to do will be important to a lot of people . It would be nice to get some excitement out of you guys as you are the ones trying to do this . One wonders how a device such as Bessler's slipped out of the grip and arena of the general public . The truth is there were/are some bad people in the world and those are the one's that Bessler got tired of . He longed for companions that were on his level of intelligence and faith . I know some of you can forgive and forget without batting an eye ... other's , well , can't I suppose .

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  15. Hi John,..It might be a good policy for us to adopt toward these anons by totally ignoring the ones that do not sign their name.
    It's very confusing to converse with nameless anons,confiding our dearest sentiments,only to find we are talking to the very one who will trample your thoughts in the dust.
    Here's an idea thats just occurred to me.
    What about having a blog on Facebook where every body is accompanied with a name and a picture.There you will have the option of aquiring friends with like ideas or blocking them out if they become a pain.
    Just a thought,what do you think?

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  16. Just a report back on my latest wheel using centrifugal force.
    It was a no go! It only turned five turns and slowly came to a standstill.Weights reloaded as predicted,but it was just less than unity gain out.
    It's amazing how every failure is actually a stepping stone that brings you closer to the truth.
    Now here's the good news! This setback really made me think hard about past wheels I have made and their principles.It sparked a new approach and I think I have discovered this secret principle that Bessler spoke of.It's represented by the back to back RR logo.
    Once I confirm it I will tell you about it.

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    1. I am just SO surprised to hear that your wheel didn't work. Shocked, I tell you.

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  17. John why do you think this symbol seems to relate to a swing movement? I think it is not possible to create this symbol by swinging.

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  18. You'd have to read my theory at http://www.besslerswheel.com/html/gravitywheel_principle.html
    I explain my thinking there, yellowson.

    JC

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    1. Thanks John. I see what you mean now. Interesting idea; but the similarity between the path of the swing motion and the symbol is just coincidence in my opinion. Most probably the designer wanted to draw a kind of loop.

      If you have time, I have a question. I read Bessler used cylindrical weights. Is there any information about height and width of the cylinder?

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  19. John,..Do you see we are being harrassed.?

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    1. Harassment? No..They want to destroy John's blog.
      I am startled by John's ruling.

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  20. 32 comments so far. Is anybody learning anyting about Besslers wheels from them??

    I didnt think so. Tg if your out there lurking around then please, please considr to return. This place has been dying since you left.

    mike

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  21. Vincent, nothing will destroy John's blog, but continual self-serving and/or long-winded comments certainly don't help.

    Trevor, you are pretty thin-skinned. It seems the only negativity directed at you is due to your constant comments about having a working wheel soon and showing up people. If you could show a little restraint, you likely won't get "sour grapes".

    Also, Ken's (TG) stuff doesn't belong spread out across all the comments on John's blog. It doesn't do him any good and it's too difficult to read it that way anyway. If people what to write that way, they should start their own blog. If others want to learn more and discuss, they should join a forum. (besslerwheel.com etc.) I have no interest in FacadeBook, and would not sign up if John did go that route. There's no need anyway, as long as all of John's guests control themselves.

    Now, back on subject.

    John, instead of PM or infinite Motion, what do you think about Fletcher's Intrinsic Motion? Infinite Energy magazine does use the infinity symbol as their logo. ;-)

    -Ed

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    1. You have no right to come and quote my own blog on John's blog just to make fun of me.That is bad manners so as a result,I have cancelled my google account,so I hope you're happy.
      The only time you would be happy is if I let you in to the secret of the wheel,well even John would not do that!
      This blog is about research and jogging peoples creative thoughts.You are only here to scrounge what you can and run.
      I don't need to be on this blog casting pearls before swine,I already have the wheel sown up so eat your heart out.
      When my last wheel failed the least you could have done is sympathise but no, all I got was sarcasm.
      I won't give you that pleasure anymore,you will only hear about it on the news!

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    2. Trevor,

      First, you reap what you sow.

      Second, we have the same rights granted to us by John.

      What do you mean "quote your own blog to make fun of you"? I only pointed out things that I've read here, and the quote I used was "sour grapes", which you said in another comment here.

      I agree with others here, you do need to chill out! Life is too short to be wailing and gnashing your teeth all the time.

      -Ed

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    3. I don't know which anon I'm talking to half the time because these guys won't sign their name.
      All I know is some anon referred to my blog CONSTANT POWER WHEEL to poke fun at me.

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    4. What was it about your blog that allowed you to be made fun of?

      -Ed

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    5. Why did you have to even mention it on John's blog.You were obviously trying to show me up because of the time it has taken to produce a working wheel.
      I never gave a date and imminent can mean a day,a week,or even years.
      My imminent implies that it is going to happen regardless.

      Delete
    6. Trevor,

      You say you want to have "gentlemanly discussion" but when I ask you a question, "what was it in a comment that made fun of you", you say I'm the one who posted it? You say you can't keep track of who you are talking to half the time. Buddy, I sign my name. So isn't making false accusations the kind of behavior you found offensive?

      A bit of friendly advise...read your own comments, look in the mirror and take a deep breathe!

      -Ed

      Delete
    7. Well if it was not you then what have got to worry about.Some times these anons sign their name and some time not,no wonder I'm confused!
      Why must I read my own blogs,I made them and I'm not ashamed of what I've written.
      Let me tell you in no uncertain terms,God willing,the wheel is going to turn any day now and I am going to be the one to do it.

      Delete
    8. Yes, God willing. By the way, with all that grace, I would think you'd offer an apology?

      -Ed

      Delete
    9. Okay Ed,..If it was not you then I'm sorry for the mistake.

      Delete
  22. Chris here ,
    Trevor don't sweat it all man , there are people who will cut your heart out for sport and feed it to your family . But there are some good people . You know who they are . So avoid everyone else .

    ReplyDelete
  23. Learn : Bessler : " It seemed no wheel would turn for us, despite all we did.
    I picked the brains of other people too, but in a discreet way, but
    what I didn't know then, and indeed have only recently
    discovered, is that there were obstacles in our way. We were,
    you might say, unprepared and therefore still far from the truth ".

    Alt. google translation :" Back then it was a thing in the way,
    (What is it now I only care to know) -
    We were unprepared for example,
    And so far from the truth. "

    ReplyDelete
  24. Trevor, you have some good ideas and I like to follow your progress. But you have to lighten up a bit and stop running to teacher every few minutes. Don't give other people the power to wind you up so much, it's not good for your health! Sarcasm can be funny.

    ReplyDelete
  25. Fellows, please keep in mind that when starting a new paradigm, you are bound to be kicked around. This is an opportunity to get tough and hardy, and at the same time developing your social skills, such as empathy and forgiveness, because the reaction we are getting has to do with sorrow, anger, resentment and the likes of it. While you have been moaning about the state of the world, I have had an interesting exchange with Andre (see top of this comment area) about brass spheres. You could also say: brass balls. Which reminds me of a saying: you gotta strap on a pair of brass balls. As a 60 year old female who has always worked in the field of science/technology since the 70ies, believe you me - I have been strapping them on a lot in my life.

    ReplyDelete
  26. Well said, Mimi - and Ed! We all have one aim and that is to try to discover how Bessler made his wheel run continuously.

    Yes Ed, I like Fletcher's 'Intrincic Motion', it describes the action perfectly without trying to relate it something else. I'm familiar with Infinite Energy magazine and their logo; Eugene Mallove was a great supporter of my book in its early days and wrote a couple of articles about it in some issues, even did an interview with me. It was a great pity when he died so young and in such circumstances.

    JC

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. John,

      Yes, I was also saddened when Eugene Mallove died. I had learned of your book and, consequently, Bessler from reading Infinite Energy.

      Indeed it is a pity he is gone.

      -Ed

      Delete
    2. Nice to know you too have fond memories of Eugene, John (and Ed). He was a good friend, and it is a great loss. With the recent and quite often spectacular developments in his beloved field, I'm sure he's smiling right now.

      Delete
  27. Okay,..I'm going to forget this all happened but only because God gives me Grace.
    It looks like I've got more friends than enemies.
    This is my progress so far after the last failure;
    I have found out the wheel principle is not about lifting or shifting any weights at all,..its about movement.
    All those diagrams on Maschinen Tractate were left behind either to confuse us or because Bessler had no further use for them after his revelation.
    It's the Apologia poem that has all the dynamic clues.
    I now know exactly what is to be done to have a working wheel so I'm going to have one more attempt.
    I should be able to prove it in a couple of days.

    ReplyDelete
  28. John,..I'm not using google account anymore because every time I post a comment I have to sign in.
    It's inconvenient so I would rather just use my name.

    ReplyDelete
  29. Please John,..Those anons that don't sign their name,..disallow them because I'm finding it difficult to recognise who is slandering me and who is not.

    ReplyDelete
  30. Above Trevor said: This blog is about research and jogging peoples creative thoughts.

    I couldnt disagree more. The unfortunate tg incident proves taht this blog has nothing to do with any sort of serious bessler research. This blog has become just another crapping ground for trolls and a place of clueless do nothings to insult anyone trying to describe their work in good faith. Anyone who thinks otherwise is only doing wishful dreaming. Anyway I dont expect it to last much longer as more and more visitors realize the truth of what Ive said and stop posting or even lurking here. Wish things were different.

    mike

    ReplyDelete
  31. Hi Mike, don't you think your comment epitomises the point you're trying to make?

    The heading of this blog reads "A blog about Johann Bessler and the Orffyreus Code and my efforts to decipher it. I'll comment on things connected with it and anything I think might be of interest to anyone else." That includes " research and jogging peoples creative thoughts".

    TG commnented in detail but he would not respect my wishes that reduce his comments to a reasonable length and quantity. I'm not going to comment any further on my actions concerning TG - let's move on!

    Trevor I understand your view but I've told you I have considered other options for reading and commenting here but this is best in my opinion.

    JC

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I think the unnecesary loss of tg was the worst thing possible that could ever have happend to this blog or the search for pm. I and many others here wanted to know what that ohter 70 percent of the information he had about the wheels was and did not mind his detailed comments. Now that I think about what happened I probably wouldnt return here if I was him. He tried constantly to further our knowlege of bessler's wheels and only got troll harrassment as a reward for his efforts that you as blog owner did nothing about. I'm really curious to see how you will be handling trolls here in the future. I've seen other blogs destroyed by them when they were allowed to run free unchecked as they (he) did here. Without tg its back to boring no progress business as usual here.I'm hoping tg makes good on his vow to publish bessler's secret pm mech this year. If not, then it may be lost for another 300 years! What a real pity that would be.

      mike

      Delete
    2. Mike, why don't you and the "many others" go petition TG to start his own blog? Then you can go troll there until it gets destroyed under its own weight.

      Delete
    3. The weight of looking for the mechanism Bessler found and used.

      Delete
  32. Back to the reason for all of John's work. Bessler left us a perfect clue..... and are ye yet without understanding. Look closely What do you actually see ? It is perfectly clear

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Looks to be taken from someone else's work, possibly to infer a religious meaning.

      http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/download.php?id=9063&order=user_id

      Delete
  33. John,..Are you any closer to success with your wheel?
    I am a bit apprehensive as to how your blog will be affected after I,you,or someone else has finally launched a working wheel.
    Will it boost your cause or will it be adversly affected.

    ReplyDelete
  34. I'm close but I've been close many times before! If you, I or someone else launches a working wheel I shall be delighted and my blog will continue with more revelations about the coded stuff.

    JC

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. If someone finds a solution, it will most probably because of you. You believed it, and made us believe it.

      Delete
    2. Most of us believed it long before collins came along but he helped bring us more of the available details to work with. Thats not a solution, but it does help to lay the foundation for one.

      Delete
  35. Yes okay,come to think of it,it might open up the prospect of a new book or even the offer of a movie or two,seeing that the wheel will have taken on a new reality and credibility.
    That makes me feel better that the future could be much brighter.

    ReplyDelete
  36. Here's a post for all the sensible posters, especially Trevor, as he seems in the doldrums,getting back to the infinity symbol, I e-mailed John one of my musings about it a little while ago. I simply noticed that John had said on one of his sites that the symbol represents a ribbon. Well if you look at Orffyreus' logo, he goes to great lengths to make it symmetrical, but if you look at the RIBBON that holds the two fronds together, it is anything but a nice symmetrical bow !
    Could this indicate that Oryffreus had unravelled the secret of infinite motion ?

    Stephen Burke

    ReplyDelete
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The True Story of Bessler’s Perpetual Motion Machine - Update

At the end of March we sold our house and moved in with my daughter, son-in-law and granddaughter, expecting to be there for no more than tw...