I know I’ve been banging on about this for years, but here I go again!
I am continually surprised that some people are still arguing about the energy source of Bessler’s wheel. I’ve been seeing the same arguments posted on the Besslerwheel forum since it began, 2003 or thereabouts, and despite the strong circumstantial evidence that Bessler was genuine, we are still being told that we are wrong and that we don’t seem to understand that science has proved that gravity is not a source of energy.
But we do understand! It is science which is missing the point! Johann Bessler with help of no lesser person than Gottfried Leibniz, designed a number of tests to be demonstrated in front of a gathering of the highest ranking statesmen, princes, university professors and celebrities of the day, which would prove the legitimacy of his claims. This was accomplished on more than one occasion, plus there were several demonstrations for others of a less exalted status who were nevertheless capable artisans.
No one has ever been able offer a convincing suggestion explaining how Bessler managed to cheat so many people over several years ... if he was a fraud as the world of science would have us believe. It is clear from documentary evidence that many of those attending the demonstrations were determined to show evidence of Bessler’s duplicity, but they failed and became convinced of his sincerity.
Given the evidence of Bessler’s tests and the many eyewitnesses who attended them, not to mention the inventor’s suggestion he should have his head cut off if he should be found guilty of making false representations, surely the initial logical conclusion is that the experts are wrong.
But it’s true, gravity is not an energy source but the fact remains that it makes things fall and this means that the fall itself, of the object of mass, has inherent energy of a potential or kinetic kind. It is how that energy is used and the action replicated that counts.
Whether you call gravity an energy source or not, or whether it does work or not, it isn’t depleted because it’s always ‘working’, making things of mass weigh a certain amount, sat on the floor or falling towards it. It’s continuous and it is the ultimate and only logical answer to perpetual or continuous motion. There is no alternative.
JC (Dum spiro spero - the motto of my family for hundreds of years)
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ReplyDeleteI was quoting the Establishment belief Stephen, I offered a way around an apparent paradox.
DeleteJC
Re. I am continually surprised that some people are still arguing about the energy source of Bessler’s wheel."
DeleteIf you gentlemen had any understanding of what Bessler wheel is (was?) No offense meant,then you would know that it did not have any source of energy, that's why it is called Perpetum Mobile, if you apply any source of energy than it no longer will be P.M. but yet another powered spinning wheel, one more question: why are you so obsessed with this so called gravity? Is it energy or is it force? Who cares! All one needs to know is it makes things fall, that's it. Regards to all.
In my opinion, gravity can be used one way... For bringing down something which is already up... For example: spacecrafts in space use gravity assist...
ReplyDeleteBut Bessler devised a similar mechanism and coupled it with another secret phenomenon and thereby succeeded in beating the ill-effects of gravity...
This is a simple trick... I mean very simple... but takes decades to perfect... Almost all of us don't know what this trick is... Hence, no progress in BW reinvention...
It is all a matter of this trick... Unless this is fully understood we are going to be simply playing the game of beating around the bush...
Bessler too didn't get this that easily... Despite it being so elusive it can be copied by anyone with just one glance... Now this explains why Bessler was so paranoid...
This trick is not incorporated in the recent two wheel designs made public...
This trick is not depicted in any code form by Bessler but is indirectly described as a poem... When one is on the right path then these things start getting clear and not till then...do what one may... And this explains how 300 years passed without any headway...
Instead of finding out what this trick is we are actually working hard in the wrong direction...
One shouldn't be very surprised if another period of 300 years should pass by... Thanks to our steadfast ego...
Suresh, you talk as though you know what this secret phenomenon or trick is. It sounds like "your" steadfast ego is the one getting in the way.
DeleteI think you are a fake, but prove me wrong.
Be careful, Suresh...you're telling too much about how Bessler's wheels worked. The people on this blog aren't ready for that information yet. Maybe in another 300 years humanity will finally be ready. But not now! You should say no more.
DeleteGood advice Anon 16:59.
DeleteSuresh, you should go away and not speak of Bessler's wheel again.
...sorry...Anon 17:16...
DeleteGravity really only acts like a spring.
ReplyDeleteA falling weight does release energy as the gravitational potential energy stored in it is turned into kinetic energy and accelerates the falling weight. BUT, someone or something had to FIRST raise that weight in the gravity field to put the gravitational potential energy into it. That energy had to come from some source outside of the gravity field like maybe the body of a person who pulled on a rope to hoist the weight up and farther from the Earth's center. Gravity only allows some potential energy to be stored in a lifted mass and later recovered from it, gravity does not provide that energy.
And you don't even need gravity to produce a force on a weight. You could use a stretched spring attached between the weight and some other object or the difference in electrical charge between a metal weight and some other nearby metal object or the attraction between a strong magnet and an iron weight. You could also use centrifugal force. If we had a Bessler wheel and mounted it horizontally in a horizontal centrifuge like the ones used to train astronauts and then revved the centrifuge up fast enough to simulate the Earth's surface gravity force, then the Bessler wheel should still work.
In this case, the energy put out by the Bessler wheel would not be coming from the Earth's gravity field and it also would not be coming from the centrifuge. If the centrifuge was located in the vacuum of outer space, then once it was revved up its motor could be turned off and if it also had frictionless bearing of some sort then it would keep spinning and applying CF to the Bessler wheel forever and the wheel would just keep turning and putting out energy forever. But, the output of energy from the Bessler wheel would never cause the centrifuge to ever slow down.
Where does that energy come from? It can apparently only come from one source which is the Bessler wheel itself. But Bessler's wheels contained no clockwork type mainsprings, tanks of compressed air, or little trained animals running around inside of them. I think they were running way too fast to be any type of known heat engine. And they certainly didn't contain any sort of electric motor and a battery to power it. That all then makes one wonder what else inside of a simple wooden drum containing some weights and levers could make the wheel run perpetually.
I also think the idea of the skeptics that Bessler's wheels were all hoaxed is total nonsense. The tests to eliminate that possibility were conclusive. His wheels were 100% genuine. We need to get past even wasting time considering that they might have been hoaxed.
jason
Jason
DeleteThe big bang threw everything outward and since then, all this mass has been settling back onto itself in clumps we call galaxies, stars, and planets.
But where did the Big Bang get the energy it needed to throw out all of that stuff that finally settled into the clumps we call galaxies, etc.?
Deleteanon 15:29 wrote "Gravity only allows some potential energy to be stored in a lifted mass and later recovered from it, gravity does not provide that energy."
DeleteI think that the gravitational potential energy is actually stored in both a lifted weight and the planet simultaneously with an equal amount going into each. If the rope to the lifted weight is released, the weight and the planet will start to accelerate toward each other as their shares of gravitational potential energy are turned into kinetic energy. Of course, the planet being so massive compared to the object will only have an insignificant amount of acceleration and it won't be noticed. That's why we tend to think it is only the object that is accelerating toward the planet.
Jason,
Delete" We need to get past even wasting time considering that they might have been hoaxed."
If we were to do this, we would be making the same mistake as those who decided to no longer waste time considering the eventuality of PM being possible.
We cannot choose the truth, we need to establish it.
I leave proving Bessler's wheels were hoaxed to the skeptics who have nothing better to do with their lives. I focus my efforts on finding out how his wheels could be and were 100% genuine. I recommend others do the same.
DeleteWell that is one of those things we may never know. Perhaps when everything begins to collapse to a single point, the energy will be so great it all blows apart again.
ReplyDeleteRegardless, don't get distracted on macro events. Keep focused on movements relative to the wheel. The answer is there right in front of us.
Not sure if you are the Anon of 15:29, but that person compared gravity to a spring. I don't think this is a good analogy. Gravity is one way. Can you not think of any event where gravity pulls something down and it goes back up after that? Let me help you - how about a pendulum swing. What you need to find is some extra force somewhere that can be applied to the raising pendulum so it rises just a little higher that the height from which it dropped. Now you have free energy, to repeat the process, and do work. Good luck.
@17:28
DeleteI also agree that the comparison of gravity to a spring is deceptive. The reason is that when you pull on an attached object to stretch a spring, the energy you put in is stored in the spring and not in the object. But when you lift a weight, the energy you put in is stored in the object and not in the gravity field.
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ReplyDeleteOh boy now we have two know-it-alls.
DeleteSo go away, make the wheel, and make your fortune. Just go away. We don't need more braggers here with nothing to offer but unproven claims. You should ridiculous.
Delete"...can be expressed in one word and Bessler told you he could betray himself with that word. I know the word!"
DeleteOmg, whatever you do Stephen, don't ever reveal that one word! Better yet you should never even hint that it exists. The failed pm chasers here are not ready to know it and may never be. It they ever did it would only cause more tragedy in our world. You should even try to forget that word if you can!
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DeleteSo we have Ken who spends his life on bw.com and this blog posting about his work, believes he finds a runner, posts a video of it on YouTube, starts selling books, and people bash him for not building a wheel or posting his SIM. And then we have a few individuals who opening boast about what they know but won't provide any proof. I think you guys have your priorities messed up.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately you have to understand human nature, and something called the "Messiah Complex"
ReplyDelete"A complex psychological state when a person believes that he or she is a savior today or he or she will be in the near future. This kind of psychological issue is usually acquired by patients who have schizophrenia and bipolar disorders."
This is partly why conspiracy theories start and gain momentum in the face of lack of credible evidence. Take Pizzagate for example, still going strong after 4 years. And then you have the wannabe's who fancy themselves as charismatic leaders able to build and maintain a base of support based on their 'charismatic' personalities and charm. Psychopath's !
Never underestimate the ego and the emptiness and desperate need some feel.
Eyes wide open !
KB DEFINITELY has a Messiah Complex which should be obvious to anyone who received one of these cartoon ads he was spamming them with earlier this year. It shows his "Second Coming" as he descends from a kind of Bessler "heaven". The book he holds over his head reminds me of the tablets carried down from Mount Sinai by Moses:
Deletehttps://img.photobucket.com/albums/p403/ken1947/ZZ15_Kens%20Return_zpsbgnm6nl1.jpg
He derived that cartoon from a previous one he had made as he was quitting over at BW forum many years ago. In that earlier one we see his "Ascension" into Bessler "heaven" to find the secret of Bessler's wheels:
https://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/files/sascension.jpg
All encyclopedias that have articles on the Messiah Complex should include a photo of KB in the article along with these two cartoons of his!
Anonymous and PROUD of it!
Werner von Braun (aka the "Father of Rocket Science") once said "You're a crackpot until you hit the jackpot." If Ken has actually managed to find out how Bessler's wheels work, he won't be considered to be suffering from a "messiah complex" anymore. He will be considered to be an actual messiah...at least by some as far as Bessler research is concerned.
DeleteNarcissistic psychopaths.
ReplyDeleteOne day someone will explain all in systematic level headed mansplain.
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DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteJohn, I now believe that your many references to his signature is spot on........
ReplyDeletehmmmm .... JC and KB design wheels based on visual clues - both are not runners.
ReplyDeleteSK and SG attempt to sell us that they alone have interpreted Bessler's written word correctly, leading to the one correct PM Principle and wheel design - neither have given any mechanical details of their designs at all, unlike JC and KB - both can not be correct. At least one is a false prophet. Neither thinks it is them.
"JC and KB design wheels based on visual clues - both are not runners."
DeleteNot quite accurate because KB claims he's got a runner now. But that is based solely on HIS sims for the wheel. We still need to see what other simmers will say about it when they take on the challenge of simming it. That will indeed be a challenge because he says that the parts must have precise specifications or the final wheel simmed may not run well or even at all.
I agree that the free energy woods are filled with "false prophets" to the point where they are starting to trip over each other! Lol!
Yes, precise specifications known only to him and God.
DeleteHe could send you the sim but then he'd have to kill you LOL
Somebody who has read his book anonymously post up the specs.
Deleteanon 20:26. It would be nice to see that but there are around two dozen of those specs needed for the parts in his wheel. We'll need a list of the specs along with a drawing showing what parts of the wheel they apply to.
DeleteDon't bother. You'll spend the rest of your life trying to turn it into a runner for KB.
DeleteIt may already be a runner. But although the design looks simple, I think whoever tries to sim it better know his stuff when it comes to making an accurate sim. It doesn't look like a job for someone just getting started making sims. I think most of the doubt about it being a runner is because its CoG is so close to the axle. It would have been nice if that CoG was located farther away. But it is what is. Let's hope it is a runner so this big wheel mystery can finally be solved.
DeleteBessler Curious
No, ALL of the doubt about it being a runner is because of basic newtonian physics which KB never learned. It has nothing to do with where the cog is located. Width for Height (W4H) Math. Every novice learns it. If you are suggesting that his 'fine tuning' of levers ropes and springs finds a non existent sweet spot that negates W4H - too funny.
DeleteIf you read Ken's book you'll realize he's had a lot of formal training in physics. The COG of the design he's found is OB when it's stationary and manages to stay that way even as a wheel rotates. It's like the COG being OB is actually its most stable location. When the wheel's rotation tries to carry the COG out of that OB location, the COG immediately starts sliding right back into it again due to the automatic shifting of the weighted levers that takes place. But, without the cords and springs in the design this would not happen. I think he's got one of the most interesting and novel designs I've ever seen. I also think if it is what Karl actually saw, then he probably would have described it as "simple".
DeleteBessler's wheel was said to be so simple it would be easy to understand and build, right? KB's design is easy to understand. Others have said that all KB has to do is spend a few dollars and commission a model maker to build it for him. He can have the title of inventor and official advisor to the builder. Document the planning and build process. Document the testing and tuning process. Write a best seller sequel with full plans and photo's, and of course a YT video of his runner. It's so simple that a few weeks should do it, a few months at most. He did years of work building thousands of sims and deciphering clues but can't find the energy or enthusiasm to commission a short build before he releases his book for sale, or even after. I guess he was in a hurry.
DeleteHe probably decided after spending fifty years looking for and finally finding Bessler's secret that was enough work for him to do and he wants others to carry on where he leaves off. I can't say I blame him. Also, if he's right, then he's not really the inventor of the wheel, Bessler is. Eventually someone will sim it and, if that looks as good as his youtube video, we'll see pm chasers trying to build it. I wouldn't be surprised if this starts happening in the new year.
DeleteStep right up. Buy my treasure map. X marks the spot. I ran out of steam and didn't dig it up myself. I can't tell you the number of paces from that tree or what direction although I know them. Here's an approximate area to dig. I'm sure it's here, trust me. If you don't find it it must be buried deeper so keep digging.
DeleteIs KB even digging in the right field? I think not!
Count Karl was quoted as saying to his ministers that the solution was easy to understand and simple to build. KB's 'runner' is simple to build and not easy to understand how it violates the physics of W4H.
What Ken's produced is kind of like a treasure map except he tells you exactly where to dig and how deep. It's like he used a metal detector to find the buried gold but doesn't have a shovel to start digging and the strength to dig himself. That's okay because there are lots of other guys with shovels that will do the digging for him. First one to it grabs the gold!
DeleteDo you even know what "the physics of W4H" is supposed to be?
I certainly do! It is clear you and KB don't!
DeleteDon't take my word for it. Build the sims and then build his easy to understand and simple to build wheel from his map.
When your sim won't keep turning, no matter where you place the attachments and pivots, how long the ropes are, whatever spring constant you use, and there is no Net Positive torque and Excess Momentum, then you go WAH WAH all the way home.
Anon 21:02's question: "Do you even know what "the physics of W4H" is supposed to be?"
DeleteAnon 21:43's reply: "I certainly do!"
Great! Then please do give its definition here so that others not familiar with it can learn from your knowledge. I suspect, however, that if you dare to do that we will all quickly realize the truth of that old saying "Better to remain silent and thought to be a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt"!
Why pour it all out here. Here's just one thread of many where it is defined and discussed in detail, so that even you might eventually understand the implications. But I doubt it.
Deletehttps://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=134375#134375
That link requires one to join the Besslerwheel.com site to read it which many might not be interested in doing. Looks like you've chosen to remain silent HERE about that "W4H physics" that you claim to "certainly" know. Good choice! Lol!
DeleteYou are showing your true colors and prejudices Ken lol.
DeleteIf you can't bring yourself to read through an educational thread then so be it. Physics 101 which you must have slept through. It makes no difference to me. Others will read it and learn what the W4H common problem is with rotating systems, conservative forces, torque from displacement, and reset of Gravitational Potential Energy. And they will see at a glance that your wonderfully intricate system of levers when laid bare is the simple W4H common problem conundrum personified, with nary a solution to the conundrum offered. I don't expect you to understand this.
Anon 07:28, I think you are just another failed pm wheel chaser who now tries to get a cheap ego trip by dropping various technical terms you've seen elsewhere on the web in an effort to convince others that you actually know something about mechanics. If you wasn't clueless as what they actually meant, then you would have had no problem responding to anon 04:40's request for a definition of W4H physics. You do put on a good show even though it's not really fooling anyone else here.
DeleteThat's about what I expected - Whoosh over your head.
DeleteWhoosh...you're full of hot air. Not real knowledge, just hot air! Whoosh! Lol!
DeleteThey just mentioned over on BW forum that "The Amazing Randi" has died at age 92. Those in the US may remember seeing him appear on various tv shows decades ago and doing amazing magic tricks which he always told the audience afterwards were only tricks. He also had a standing offer of $1 million USD for anyone who could invent a genuine perpetual motion machine. You can read more about him here:
ReplyDeletehttps://dailycaller.com/2020/10/22/james-randi-atheist-skeptic-magician-dies/
Although I admired his determination to discredit alleged psychics, paranormal experts and televangelists, I was always sceptical,of his offer of $1 million USD for anyone who could demonstrate a genuine perpetual motion machine. How easy would it be to deny any such demonstration as not being the true device.
DeleteJC
I meant that Randi could dismiss any claims for the money as not proven. JC
DeleteHis foundation probably would have required the inventor to submit his device to some independent testing agency picked by the foundation to validate the claim before they would hand over the money. No one ever collected the money, but I'm wondering if anyone ever tried to collect it? And, if so, what was their pm machine? Also, is that award still being offered?
DeleteTwo good questions. It would be interesting to know if anyone tried to collect it, I suppose the foundation would have records?
DeleteJC
I had a friend who was not a James Randi fan and referred to him as "The Amusing Randi". In this short video you will see Randi, while also pushing a book he wrote, saying how he was able to debunk the Israeli psychic Uri Geller:
Deletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhgDKG5Cpf8
The debunking supposedly took place on a tv show that he appeared on with Geller before which Randi switched the spoons to be given to Geller so he could bend them. After 20 minutes of trying, Geller was unable to get them to bend. Randi then proclaimed that was because Geller could not use the special spoons used by magicians that have a section of their handles made from gallium metal with the unproven implication that Geller had supplied the spoons for the demonstration. Gallium has a very low melting point and just rubbing it with your finger will make it soften and sometimes even liquefy. Rubbing the part of the handle just behind the bowl at the end will make these spoons seem to mysteriously bend out of shape. But, Randy failed to mention that Geller was able to make brass keys volunteered by audience members also bend and sometimes even curl up after he rubbed them. Gallium is a silvery colored metal and cannot be used to make a fake brass colored key.
But, Geller had previous problems on other tv shows when required to produce a paranormal effect on demand. He was, however, often able to produce an effect when he was not under the pressure to perform for a live tv audience.
Randi conveniently forgets to mention in this video that when Geller was tested by a group of physicists at Sanford University, they verified that his abilities were genuine. They presented him with little strips of different types of metal that were sealed in numbered glass vials. Geller was able to hold the vials in his hands, while in full view of the physicists, and cause most of the little pieces of metal to bend and twist themselves into different shapes. It was verified at the time that none of the vials had been opened in any way. The professors even published peer reviewed articles in academic journals that described "The Geller Effects" they had observed with their own eyes. They had no doubt his effects were real, but had no idea how they could happen.
However, Randi has rightly pointed out that the vast majority of "psychics", especially the one's making money off of their claimed powers, are either delusional or crooks. Exposing them is a good thing. But, in the case of Geller, imo, he was mistaken about his abilities not being genuine. They just couldn't always be produced on demand.
I agree with you anon 00:15 that Randy was dead wrong about Uri Geller. Geller did make some kooky claims along the way but his metal bending ability was for real.
DeleteI saw Geller give a demonstration of that ability on tv once. He was given several keys by people in the audience. He then began stroking them one at a time and laying them down on a table in front of him. The camera then zoomed in close and incredibly within a minute of rubbing them and placing them down they began one by one to slowly bend to different angles. While this bending was occurring Geller did not touch them. I'd like to have seen the Amazing Randy do the same thing with his trick spoons. He wouldn't be able to do that and he knew it. To hide that he focused instead on the one embarrassing failure for Geller and ignored his many other successful demonstrations that didn't fit in with Randy's propaganda that it was all faked. Imo, Randy was just using Geller's celebrity status to try to boost his own. Randy was a skilled magician but unlike Geller he never did any real magic.
I found this short video of Geller making a brass key start to bend. He then puts it on a flat table and you can see how much it bent from him gently rubbing it. He said if it was left alone on the table it would continue to bend for several more hours!
Deletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rn5OqRlPdQM
jason
I'm a believer in Uri Geller. I read a magazine article once about how he was on a tour in Europe. He was out on the street and people started to recognize him and a crowd gathered. He signed some autographs for them and then they asked him if he could show them his metal bending trick. No one had a spoon or key they wanted to risk having bent so he looked around for something else to use.
DeleteHe noticed a parking sign near the curb of the street. He walked over to its pole and started rubbing it. Within a few minutes the pole started to bend in its middle and almost folded over to form a right angle. People in the crowd were amazed and started to cheer him. I wish someone had a movie camera to record that but they did have a photo someone took in the article showing the bent over sign pole.
@anon 21:16
DeleteI couldn't find a photo of the parking sign pole Geller bent that you mentioned, but I did find this photo taken at a race track where he managed to make another metal sign pole bend. Seems like the thicker the metal piece to be bent, the more effort it took. The fact that the metal kept bending after he stopped touching it shows that he was somehow doing something unusual to the metal atoms in it that lasted for a while.
https://www.urigeller.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/MotorSport.png
Here's a video I found of Randy mocking the PhD physicists at the Lawrence Livermore Laboratories. Randy, btw, dropped out of high school in 1945 at the age of 17 so he could pursue a career performing magic tricks.
Deletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbwWL5ezA4g
Hi John,
ReplyDeleteA tiny bit of good news,a small model of my idea has proven my theory on the shape and movement of the larger weights in the mechanism. All end up where I speculated, all I need to do is finalize the design of their actuators.
NO, IT CAN'T BE SIMMED !
It's a further development of the idea Vibrator was good enough to sim for me, but it's more complicated, and Vibrator had to compromise with the original, I don't think it's possible to sim the new one.
However, it seems one mechanism with a counterbalance, or two opposite mechanisms, would rely on their own momentum to carry them past the 12 O'clock position, which possibly rules out the idea of applying a load. Three mechanisms give enough overlap in their actions to provide rotation.
Five mechanisms are probably the most you can fit in a small wheel,yet do useful work, and eight the optimum number for a large wheel.
STEVO
Good luck STEVO, 👍
DeleteJC
"NO, IT CAN'T BE SIMMED !'
DeleteGreat. Then you don't have to worry about Wubbly over at bwf shooting it down as fast as he did the "Bessler Collins Gravity Wheel". Having a wheel design no one else can disprove can give one a nice comfy feeling. Only you will be able to disprove it.
Of course that will never happen because you will never really be finished with it. With any luck you will be able to keep "refining" it for the next decade or more. You are to be envied! John could learn a lesson from you.
Well, frankly speaking and being your true well-wisher, I wouldn't wish you good luck Stevo because I clearly know your idea is totally wrong... Forgive me for this... And, in case you don't believe, wait and see the results for yourself and then you may Butcher me...
ReplyDeleteI read this on Quora...
Gravity can release incredibly large amounts of an object’s mass energy as kinetic energy. In extreme cases up to half the mass-energy of an object!
I don't know how much true this is...
A falling object in a gravity field releases kinetic energy or does it converts gravity potential energy into kinetic energy?...
A Weight in BW plays the main role releasing this energy...
We need to work out two things here...
How to design it and to ensure how it interacts with its counterpart...
Good day...
"I clearly know your idea is totally wrong."
DeleteWhat a marvelous gift you have Suresh to be able to just read a vague description of someone's wheel and immediately know for a fact that it will not work. I envy you, sir!
You are right... When you know what Karl saw you would agree with me...
ReplyDeleteBW isn't that mysterical to me... But it wasn't so 35 years back... I struggled and struggled for days and nights... Only I know what I went through... Even 20 years ago I wasn't this confident...
Yes, one look is enough for someone to steal the idea...
If you want to test me just give me any description of the build and in a Jiffy I would be able to say if it is going to be a runner...
Believe it or not...
And, if I am found wrong I am willing to undergo any punishment...
CAREFUL, Suresh! Anon 10:02 is trying to trick you into giving away the secret of Bessler's wheels that you worked so hard to find. Remember what Bessler wrote at the end of his "little book" poem in AP:
Delete"But softly! - speak softly of all these marvels, lest the enemy grows wise! He will drench me with his spittle so that I will lose my temper and in a sudden fit, cast aside the mantle that conceals my wheel. But he shall be thwarted in his desires."
I'll take up your challenge SK.
ReplyDeleteYou know the details of your design for a runner. You have heard some of the details of SG's design and decisively dismiss it because it is not like yours. Same for JC and KB where you have a lot more detail.
This implies there is one fundamental mechanical difference in your PM concept approach compared to all others and which is to your trained eye glaringly obvious from its omission in the others. Enough so that you can make a snap judgement in a jiffy.
"If you want to test me I would be able to say if it is going to be a runner..."
Please describe the single mechanical difference that makes your concept a runner and which makes all others not.
Infact, I don't look for that single mechanical difference normally... In the first place, it is just not a single difference that can be the deciding factor...
ReplyDeleteHere, I must say that your question is a very tricky one indeed... I don't know how to reply this safely... I am always fearful of losing the hard-earned secret...
You should understand how this simple mechanism has baffled so many for 300 years or so... Why no one is capable of thinking like Bessler?... Why this Blog headed by a stalwart like JC sir is not able to shed any light so far after so much of discussions?...
Is it because no out of the box thought process is happening?... Or it is because real genius ones are rare?...
Everyone seem to be thinking that one weight has to lift another... They seem to believe that the opposing weight depends on the descending weight for that lift... It also appears that people believe that the weights follow normal route but actually the weights don't follow the normal path... While building a wheel the clues in the poem are blatantly ignored... For the movement is explained in an subtle manner there... Even during the build itself the wheel would start showing the movement... It would become restless and difficult to control without a braking system in place... When people talk of simming you can easily make out that it is another nonrunner... The lever- weight mechanism is the heart of the wheel and this should be invented before contemplating the wheel design... The number of this mechanism cannot be five or six or even seven for that matter... It should be multiples of four...
"They seem to believe that the opposing weight depends on the descending weight for that lift... "
DeleteI agree that is a dead end approach. Weights on the ascending side are rising rapidly, but it has to be due to each one being lifted by the combined efforts of several other weights at the same time which are connected to it by ropes. Many of the early drawings in MT such as MT 9 through MT 12, MT 14, MT 16, MT 37, and MT 38 show this. How many pm chasers are even trying designs like this (one exception being KB)?
I've long wondered if the interior axle of the wheel was offset like the crankshaft of a WW1 Gnome engine where the cylinders revolve around the crankshaft. As the wheel spins, the distance between the hub and the wheel changes depending on where you are in the rotation. Then you hook one spring in there and use the dominant flywheel approach and it pumps itself around. Then perhaps you can utilize this in a way where offset weight which are normally out of balance, are actually in balance due to the offset. Just another way to think about it.
DeleteAgain, you are not getting it... Weights on the rising side don't entirely depend on the other weights...
ReplyDeleteSecondly, all the my drawings mentioned by you above are failed devices and abandoned by Bessler himself... If you follow them you will have a perpetual non runner... Take it from me... Ropes are not needed...
Again, you are leading others with the same old methods...
I would have honestly acknowledged if your approach was right Ken... Believe me...
If anyone wants to really achieve success please discard all old ideas and start anew...
Otherwise be prepared for unsuccess...
I reiterate that I won't misguide anyone here... Never...
You don't have a runner Suresh so you can't guide or misguide anyone. Stop pretending to know what you don't know.
DeleteSK wrote "...all the my drawings mentioned by you above are failed devices and abandoned by Bessler himself..."
DeleteYou must have meant the mt drawings and not the my drawings like you wrote. Yes, none of the mt drawings will work. BUT Bessler also said combining PARTS of them could lead to a runner. Maybe some of those parts are the ropes and springs? As anon 20:24 says unless you actually have a runner you can't really know for sure and you are just guessing like everyone else here.
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DeleteI actually forgot or I don't know...but I read somewhere he got the idea from someone else who built a large wheel...
DeleteAlso, I read that the secret was revealed to Bessler in his dream...
By God himself...
DeleteI don't think Bessler got the design from anyone. He believed it was God that led him to the solution but it was probably just due to him keeping on looking until he finally found it by chance. He said this about his discovery in AP (see page 299):
Delete"Even if it has remained many thousands of years undiscovered up till now, I believe that God would have granted its discovery if craftsmen had been more diligent in their search for it. If someone like myself had hunted after it, it would have been in the world a long time ago."
Take the springs out of KB's wheel and what happens? The Y-lever and ropes sim isn't a runner. According to him add in the sim springs and it becomes a runner. Out - not a runner. In - runner. One might conclude that KB believes sim springs are the game changer for a sim runner.
ReplyDeleteIf they were not then he would have simplified the sim and did away with them entirely.
@ SK 12:53 : "I reiterate that I won't misguide anyone here... Never..."
Didn't you say previously that pendulums were involved in your Bessler PM solution?
I think springs were a very important part of Bessler's wheels. They helped temporarily counter balance the weights on the ascending side so they could be "raised up in a flash" by other weights like Bessler said in AP (see page 341).
DeleteAP pg 329 Bessler on Wagner :
Delete"But the weights which rest below must, in a flash, be raised upwards, and it is this that Wagner cannot force himself to accept. But, crazy Wagner, just note that that is indeed the case with my device."
This has been raised more than once by others recently. The above is often quoted as a bona fide clue. One of the objections for KB's Bessler PM wheel design being Bessler's is that no weights are raised upwards "in a flash". No stretching of the imagination can suggest they are in his sim.
Springs are less than conservative. They can store Mechanical PE and release most of it at a later time as KE. This can assist timing of events by bringing them forward or retarding them but because they have to be reloaded their influence ultimately is Sub-Energy contribution.
"One of the objections for KB's Bessler PM wheel design being Bessler's is that no weights are raised upwards 'in a flash' "
DeleteActually if you look at that lever moving from the wheel's 9 o'clock to 10:30 locations it looks like it rapidly swings through over 20 degrees during 45 degrees of wheel rotation. Compared to how many degrees the four levers ahead of it swing through in 45 degrees of wheel rotation that lever going from 9 to 10:30 is sort of rising "in a flash" back toward its stop (but does not yet contact it). Of the five levers that are connected together, that one is also the only one that is rising almost solely in a vertical direction.
Bessler Curious
You have a very strong imagination. In a flash means very fast i.e. suddenly goes from A to B with a minimum of initially high acceleration rates. The 9 o'clock lever is being rotated clockwise about its pivot by a loaded spring pulling it and is also torqued about its pivot by the 6 lever partner moving backwards off its stop, although it is almost vertical at the time and also held by a spring force against its stop, so should have little to no influence on its leader partner rotation about its pivot.
DeleteThe 9 lever slowly repositions to half the distance to its stop in about 45 degrees of wheel rotation, and reaches its stop at about 3 through 6.
There are two systems of connection in the sim. An outer sequential rope connection between levers, and a second rope leap-frogging connection (2 sets of 4). Because they are all coordinated there is no opportunity for a very rapid movement (excess of force applied) that might be construed as "in a flash" movement, otherwise there would be jerky lever acceleration and deceleration visible and the wheel itself would 'hunt' slightly i.e. rpm increase and decrease (not smooth rpm) due to inertial effects of masses moving about internally affecting the whole wheel as angular momentum is conserved.
anon 22:46 wrote:
Delete"...and is also torqued about its pivot by the 6 lever partner moving backwards off its stop, although it is almost vertical at the time and also held by a spring force against its stop, so should have little to no influence on its leader partner rotation about its pivot."
I don't think that the two parallel springs (the video only shows one of them) to a lever are actually stretched when that lever is in contact with its stop. If so that means that 6:00 lever could provide a lot of cw torque for a while to the 9:00 lever as it moved to the 10:30 drum location. As the springs to the 6:00 lever stretch the torque to the 9:00 lever drops off, but it looks like the four levers leading it then kick in and start providing it with extra cw torque. I think if one was watching Ken's wheel running at high speed the rapid almost vertical motion of that 9:00 lever would be noticeable. Maybe it's rise could be described as taking place "in a flash"?
Bessler Curious
I read his description beneath his video that there is a cord and a spring attached to the each lever not shown. While watching it rotate I noticed that one of the levers moves right on through its stop at about 4 o'clock, and back again later near 6. He has forgotten to turn collide on and then replace his video. This didn't seem to have any affect on the System CoM or rotation rate (slowed to single frames) which seems strange. Add to that that the whole thing appears to be rotating around a point where the System CoM is shown because the attachment points and pivots are moving all over the place and even drifting inside and outside the back circle plate. I am a WM user and no matter how close I zoom in and at what scale I use, or what accuracy and iteration settings, I have never seen this 'drift distortion' in any avi file, nor read about it.
DeletePendulums are involved and in the initial stage the ascending weights depend on descending weights for lift but a little later it is all automatic and fast action independently...
DeleteAnon 08:06 wrote "I am a WM user and no matter how close I zoom in and at what scale I use, or what accuracy and iteration settings, I have never seen this 'drift distortion' in any avi file, nor read about it."
DeleteI think someone here explained it months ago. Apparently in the version of wm2d Ken was using the symbol for a joint always stays located a little to the lower right of the actual point location of the joint. Because of that, any joint placed on a rotating body will look like its moving about a small circle as the body rotates. It's actually an optical illusion of some sort. I have a very early version of wm2d and in mine the point location of a joint is always located at the exact center of a joint symbol and that optical illusion does not occur. I prefer it that way.
I have an older version of WM myself. In fact as old as KB's. I have seen his sims from his program before and they do not show this drift. In fact they can't because 'snap to object' is on as a preset preference when pinning a joint etc so the program puts it at the nearest grid coord etc. And they always stay at that relative position on the object. This is not an optical illusion imo.
DeleteAnd why didn't he redo the sim when he noticed that collision was off and the lever was passing through the stop. That mistake destroyed the integrity of the sim and it needed an immediate redo. He left the faulty sim up - go figure!
@Anon 10:52. At the end of his pinned comment under the video he wrote:
Delete"I've corrected that minor flaw in the original simulation and, since it does not seriously interfere with the rotation of the model and is mainly noticeable at full screen and HD quality, I've decided to leave well enough alone and not replace the above simulation with the corrected one."
Looks like he didn't consider it serious enough to have to go to the trouble of uploading the corrected sim he made. The flaw would really only cause problems, if it could, after about 180 degrees of wheel rotation, and that isn't happening even though that improperly blocked lever is moving the CoG of the eight weighted levers very slightly closer to the axle for about 45 degrees or 1/8 of the wheel's rotation. It's nice to know the design is resilient enough to be able to function despite such a flaw.
I'm going to disagree and say there's something fishy going on here. Let's start at basics. When you start a complex sim build all object 'Collisions' are OFF. This is so the sim can act like 3D and parts move through each other uninterrupted. Then when you want objects to 'Collide' or impact you turn them 'ON' for those objects only. You don't build one sim through to the final sim and forget about a Collision setting. Especially if you have built 2000 variations to get one runner (which is crook). You save your sim under a new name as you go along so you have an evolution of progression, in case you take a misstep and need to go back to an earlier sim and alter things like rope lengths and spring K values, or attachment positions. So the 'Collision Problem' would have been noticed almost immediately, being one of the first things built. And corrected, before continuing on with the extras that needed lots of fine tuning and experimentation apparently.
DeleteTo put up a flawed sim (missing an impact interaction) as proof of PM is fatal and mind boggling to me. Regardless of when it was noticed it should have been pulled down from YouTube and replaced with one that was kinematically correct. I disagree that it is of no consequence because if you make that one basic mistake what other mistakes have you made. Remember this sim is touted as the blue print for a real build! Blue prints don't have those kinds of mistakes.
My 2 cents. KB could have replaced the sim on YT with a corrected one. A year has gone by and he hasn't done that saying it isn't important. He could also have posted a second sim with the corrections alongside the first defective one. And then he could prove it was of no consequence. And it could be compared to the first to see what differences there are in performance frame by frame and in the COG movement. Maybe a third showing it starting from a standing start and accelerating until topping out at a steady rpm in a few turns.
DeleteThere were eight collisions that he had to set up in that sim and he may have been making them one by one and working his way clockwise around the wheel starting from the 12:00 lever and its stop. He probably got distracted and forgot to set the last one for the 10:30 lever and its stop. I've made similar mistakes myself when making sims. Usually you notice it right away, but for his wheel it's not that noticeable. I wouldn't have noticed it unless he pointed it out in his pinned comment under the video. I don't think he's trying to hide anything. He just made an honest mistake. It didn't affect his uploaded sim so I'd expect an actual build to work even better. I intend to get his book so I can get the exact specs for the parts in that wheel and try making my own sim which seems to be what he wants everyone to do. If that works I'll then be trying a real build. I'd just love to have my own working reproduction of a Bessler wheel. I'd keep it right on my coffee table so I could show it off to everyone who thought I was wasting my time looking for pm all these years. The looks of astonishment on their faces will be well worth the effort of building it.
DeleteNot very diligent is he! I noticed it straight away.
DeleteAs I said collisions are the first thing you set up. Before adding anything to moderate the lever behavior as it travels to the stop.
Enjoy the book.
I have his book and am still reading it. It's a very big book like eight hundred pages. Better figure on a month of part time reading to finish it. But it's loaded with a lot of detailed info and drawings which is what I was looking for. Ken's into what you might call "micro clues" and has found literally dozens of them throughout the two DT portraits and even in Bessler's other wheel drawings. He then shows how they add up to the wheel mechanics Bessler used. I think his is the opposite approach to what others are doing which can be called using "macro clues" they think they've found in the Bessler drawings including those in MT . Ken mentions and analyzes the toys page in MT but doesn't use any of the other drawings from it. He doesn't seem to think they're that important.
DeleteHe says building Bessler's 3 feet diameter prototype wheel will be easy. But I'm not too sure about that. That wheel uses forty strings for coordination, sixteen little springs, and eight levers that are less than four inches wide. The width of each lever is subdivided into five layers each of which will contain some of the wheel's forty strings. To make matters more complicated, Ken discovered the exact mass and shape of the lead weights used in that wheel from the portrait clues. He even gives the reader detailed instructions on how to hand cast them from molten lead! But he also says you can use something else like pieces of steel for the weights if you don't want to handle lead which is toxic.
I'm tempted to try a build of it despite the difficulties of working with small levers, but I think I'll wait until I see some others making working sims of it.
Firstly, my last comment was on 24/10/20 @ 19:21.
ReplyDeleteYou can believe my idea will work.
You can believe my idea won't work.
But, you cannot argue, because you don't know what my idea is.
Sometimes it is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt.
A basic description of my idea,
It has 3 mechanisms,
They all work independently, no interconnections.
The ascending weights are in from 6 O'clock to 12 O'clock, and move quickly.
On the descending side, the weights move out between 12 O'clock and a little less than 60° after. ( 55° ? )
2 weights per mechanism.
No ropes.
1 spring.
And that's all.
STEVO
@STEVO
DeleteBut as Suresh told you on 28 October 2020 at 03:21:
"Well, frankly speaking and being your true well-wisher, I wouldn't wish you good luck Stevo because I clearly know your idea is totally wrong."
So there's really no need for you to even try building it now because Suresh using his special "gift" has already assured you it cannot possibly work even though he doesn't have all of the details yet. You should actually be thanking him for trying to save you all of that wasted effort. That was really very nice of him.
A fool is one that makes claims without proof.
DeleteBut the bigger fool is the one who believes claims without any proof. There are a lot of big fools like that in the US nowadays.
DeleteUPDATE. The death toll from COVID-19 in the US is now passing 225,000 and continuing right on its way to 300,000...a number which would have been considered an unthinkable fanstasy back in March of this year. Currently we're seeing about 80,000 new infections every day and there is no doubt that the dreaded "Second Wave" has now started in the US. The Trump admin has apparently given up on trying to stop the pandemic but now occasionally says people can wear a mask IF they want to.
ReplyDeleteThey've already had an outbreak in the White House itself that even put Trump in the hospital, but his message is still that COVID-19 is no big deal. When he got infected he was airlifted by helicopter to a great hospital, had a dozen doctors working on him, and got the latest experimental drugs to stop the virus. The chances of the average US citizen receiving that kind of treatment is next to zero!
Many think that it's okay for people to gather in crowds out of doors without masks since the air will blow any virus away. NOT true. There was a case of an infected women who went to an outdoor wedding. She wore no mask and infected 22 other people there who also weren't wearing masks!
The Trump admin is now pushing a new fantasy to downplay the seriousness of the pandemic in the US. Now we are being told that the doctors are LYING about how many people are actually dying from COVID-19! Why are they lying? Because they get paid more money if they can say they treated a COVID-19 patient! You see he wants you to believe that you cannot trust the virus experts or even the doctors. Who can you trust? Why only Trump, of course, since he's a "stable genius" and, according to him, the second greatest president after Abraham Lincoln.
So, don't worry about the virus everyone. We're "rounding the corner on it" and it will be gone in another month or so. Get out and do some shopping and eating in restaurants. That statistic about 50% of the people who are infected having eaten INSIDE of a restaurant with their masks off a few days before they got sick is just another big lie from the doctors who we really can't trust.
Trump's rival Biden says Americans are going to begin a "long dark winter". Why say something gloomy like that? Because some computer models are predicting ANOTHER 200,000 dead by the beginning of next year. If Trump is reelected for a second four year term as US President (helped by as much Democratic voter suppression as possible that his hundred lawyers in all fifty states can manage to create), one wonders what his "explanation" for all of those extra deaths will be? Maybe he'll decide we're actually under a slow bioweapon attack from the Chinese and it's time to go to war with them? Maybe he'll decide that 90% of the numbers are wrong and downsize the figure to only 20,000 killed by COVID-19 and then declare that COVID-19 is actually LESS dangerous than the regular seasonal flu? One wonders how much more bizarre his behavior and thinking could become in another four years.
PREDICTION. If Trump loses the coming election, he will like a sore loser shortly after resign his office and hand over the presidency to his vice president Pence. Pence will then, like Ford did for Nixon, dutifully give Trump a presidential pardon for any and all crimes he MAY have committed while US President. Why is that important? To prevent all of the survivors of those who died from COVID-19 from filing a class action lawsuit to sue Trump for the "wrongful deaths" of their loved ones caused by Trump's misinforming everyone about the danger of the airborne virus when he actually knew how dangerous it could be back in January of this year. Such a lawsuit could reduce him to near poverty virtually overnight. Don't think he isn't worrying about that possibility as the end of his presidency draws nearer with each passing day.
Anonymous and PROUD of it!
The idea that the Trump administration is giving up on stopping the pandemic shows how really incompetent they were and still are.
DeleteOver in South Korea with a population of about 26.6 million, they have so far had a grand total of 460 deaths from corona virus since the pandemic started early this year. If they had a population of 340 million like the US, that would mean that their total deaths would only have been 5,880 deaths or about 1 for every 38 that the US has had!
We can't control the virus in the US? Total BS! The difference between South Korea and the US is that they got SERIOUS about controlling it over there just as soon as they realized the danger of it. Over here Trump spent months trying to joke it all away and he's still doing that. Now we see what the result is. Four more years for him? HELL NO!
Most people don't know that those crowds of yahoos at his rallies have to sign a waiver saying if they get infected while attending they can't sue Trump! After that they crowd together without masks and listen to him tell them how they "got to live their lives" and "don't worry about the virus". What a joke! He's actually now the world's biggest spreader of misinformation about Covid-19 and also the virus itself.
DeleteA lot of people who got infected and recovered think they don't have to worry about it again. Nope! A recent British study shows that about three months after infection the antibodies in a person's blood start to "wane" and then when they are gone the person can get infected again and start spreading it to others. If they ever do get a vaccine for this virus people are going to have to vaccinated every three months to provide continuous protection. Imagine trying to vaccinate all 7.6 billion humans on our planet every three months? Good luck with that. Right now about half of the people in the US say they won't take any vaccines for the virus. They either don't trust a vaccine's safety or they intend to just let God protect them.
The only solution to this mess is for everyone to get serious and start wearing their masks, social distancing, washing hands, and stop acting like retards. Then when the hospitals all over the world say they are no longer seeing any new cases of Covid-19 showing up we can finally all get back to normal again and dispense with the masks. That could be years from now.
I tuned in late to an interview being done on tv with a Hispanic woman from her hospital bed. She was in her early forties and said that before she caught the corona virus she had always been healthy. She had been in the hospital for over a month after being admitted with the virus. Why so long? It turned out that she was still recovering from having just had a double lung TRANSPLANT! That was the only option left to save her life after the virus destroyed her own two lungs. She admitted that she hadn't taken the virus seriously and wasn't wearing a mask when she got infected. Now she intends to start wearing one. Better late than never!
Delete"unless you actually have a runner you can't really know for sure and you are just guessing like everyone else here."
ReplyDeleteThe above statement is the standard quote these days and it is logical too... I simply agree with you Ken...
More than 300 years have passed without anyone able to decipher BW secret...
BW design is very unique and not seen anywhere...
There's just no reference point...
Whoever attempts to reinvent the same faces failure after failure...
Things have reached such a state that people have become so skeptical and the very mention of BW is greeted with suspicion...
What is not clearly understood is that even though the BW design is extremely simple and yet why it is out of reach of many...
99 percent of these inventors don't actually know the real working of BW... Yet they think they can do it...
You have to be an odd man like Bessler...
You need to think like Sir Newton...
I mean natural thinking...
These days you will find most very businesslike and selfish not to say how much clever...
Not as passionate as Bessler...
Bessler had a mission in mind...
He was working for the larger interest...
Since the design is simple and unique and when it appears in mind you will instantly know that it is the one as it jells with the clues in the poem... though others will find it hard to believe...
Now if you ask a simple question about the clues in the poem no one can do good judgement... I tried it once... about children playing... No one could succeed... I too don't know everything about the clues in the poem but enough to comprehend...
The problem with You Ken and our blog boss is that you people want to sell books after having failed in devising BW...
You will naturally oppose people like me at any cost for it will affect your vested interests...
I hope I am not being too harsh... I don't want to be very narcisstic also at the same time... JC sir has rebuked me in the past...
There's too much at stake...
It is but natural to cast doubt...
I can understand all this...
My only request is don't be like others... Be different... Be special... Don't abuse or acuse anyone...
Suresh, I’m not doing this to sell books! If I did I’d be penniless, I sell the books to spread information about Bessler, and I think it worked. I have spent so much more than the number of books I’ve sold cost to write, translate, print etc. I had ten web sites until last year and they all cost money which is why I let some of them go, just trying to cut costs.
ReplyDeleteJC
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ReplyDeleteUnless all of this knowledge you claim to have found results in a working wheel, it's totally meaningless as far as the world is concerned. It may give you a nice feeling, but so do the delusions many people have as long as they aren't shown to just be delusions.
DeleteSG and SK enjoy "posturing". Here's a web definition of that:
Delete"behavior that is intended to impress or mislead."
Other than constantly telling everyone here they know the big secret of Bessler's wheels, they can never reveal any of what they think they know. That's because if they did, everyone would immediately dismiss it as a bunch of crazy nonsense that they dreamed up over the years. That would end their fun and they don't want that to happen.
So, they will continue to tell us how simple the secret really is, how it's been known from ancient times, and how they want to "teach us" how to find it like they did. If they actually knew anything real they would be posting a drawing of it so others could sim or build it to see if it worked. But don't expect to ever see that happen because they can't do it and never will.
They are just talkers and not doers. So let them do their talking over and over again. Maybe they are hoping that some new people will join this blog and actually believe their nonsense. They are really wasting their time if they're hoping for that to happen. Maybe they are guru types that are hoping to build up a following outside of the blog? IIRC SG was trying in the past to get people here to call him up privately. Probably looking for some followers to stroke his ego or maybe even make some financial contributions to him for some purpose. Beware of anyone on the web who wants to start communicating with you privately. Be VERY wary if you do and they soon start telling you how they need money for some big project or invention they are involved in.
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DeleteYou don't share because you have nothing to share that anyone could use to make a working wheel out of. You may think you do but you are just deceiving yourself like everyone since Bessler has been doing. If you have a design that you think is the one Bessler used then send a sketch of it to John and he can post it here for you so we can all see it and sim it for you. If you can't do that then don't expect anyone here to take you seriously. The same goes for Suresh. You two have plenty of philosophy and vague hints to drop here. But unless they lead to a working wheel they are just your opinions and fantasies.
DeleteA lot of people who can't get the attention they crave by actually producing something real will use another and simpler method to get it. They will concentrate on being mysterious.
DeleteThey will claim to have special powers or knowledge of an incredible type. They will never actually prove these powers or knowledge, but will forever make hints about them to try to get people to notice them. Imo, SG and SK are two of these types of people and they are getting exactly what they need from this blog now.
It really doesn't matter if anyone says that they believe them or do not believe them. That is not really important to them. All that really matters to them is that people are reading their claims and giving some sort response to them. That's what they are really looking for and they're getting that from everyone here, including me now, who tells them that they are really delusional when it comes to Bessler's wheels.
Of course, they think only they are right and everyone else is wrong so there's no use trying to have any kind of rational discussion with either of them. You will learn that as the blogs pass by month by month and you just see them using their same basic method of getting attention over and over again.
They have been doing the same thing now here for years and will continue to do it for years more. They have probably tried it on other forums and blogs in the past that we don't know about only to have the moderators there finally ban them. Fortunately for them John is a lot more tolerant and they've now found a new and permanent "home" here.
Talking of a working wheel...
ReplyDeleteWell, Bessler had one, didn't he?... Still the delusions persisted...and exists to this day... Having no idea how BW worked and claiming that your publications would lead to a successful build is not only meaningless but also utter stupidity...
IT is nothing but a misleading attempt which is highly deplorable... Fooling self as well as others... You may get a nice feeling of it but it is Just a vanity... Betraying the masses...
I request Ken to stop discussing about simming the wheel idea further... It is just an endless empty talk... BW cannot be invented this way... We need to do what Bessler followed... We should try to understand the clues in the poem instead... Try to get the core Idea first... And stop discouraging someone like me who is only trying to guide others towards the right path... And not persuade to read your latest publication or the YouTube simulation of BW...
Good Day
"... endless empty talk …"
DeleteThat's calling the kettle black :)
"And stop discouraging someone like me who is only trying to guide others towards the right path"
ReplyDeleteIrony SK - that's SK, SG, and KB all steering us on their right path. And they all have different ideas of what Bessler's PM mechanics was. That's a lot of delusional folk.
Why doesn't one of you just talk straight, be completely open and matter of fact. No games. Get it out there and crush the opposition.
Go here, https://qanon.video/q-videos/the-fall-of-the-cabal/
ReplyDeleteDL and the sit still and try to watch all 10 Videos. Will take 3hrs
Afterwards, you'll be a little more AWAKE than you are now. You'll find out what only 10% of the population of the earth are aware of... As far as the USA, our previous 5 presidents and their installed heads of all 3-letter agencies and governments have been up to, you'll also learn why Trump cannot fail to win re-election.
Right... Even if 'they' win, they'll never be able to take up office in Jan because they'll ALL be in jail.
Trump and his team have rescued over 80,000 kids globally, 30,000 from US alone from wretched lives with sex and ADRENACHROME traffickers and all evidence they have gathered from the kids and handlers also captured, POINT to the guilty.
Trump and DOJ are holding over 300,000 sealed indictments which will be served to the most rich, privileged, elite of our industries, media, sports, entertainment, energy, software, social networking and pharmaceutical industries - globally. This has been 20years in the planning and launching NOW.
It will be BIBLICAL :-)
Oh yeah... share the video link with anyone else you know that YOU think wants to be FREE for the rest of their lives - and all future kids too :-)
Thanks for delivering the biggest load of conspiracy theory nonsense possible in a single post! For all you know that Q anon BS could be something that's been planted into your simple little brains by Russian disinformation agents in an attempt to create divisions among the American people and make them distrust their democratic government. They also want to try to get Trump reelected because they think it will make it easier for them to reassemble the old Soviet Union without getting any opposition from the US and its allies...if we have any left now after years of Trump alienating them. Those agents, using various social media accounts and often fake American sounding names, plant their conspiracy seeds and then depend on the lower IQ types to promote and spread them around which seems to be working well for them this election season. Yes, someone definitely needs to wake up...YOU and any other Americans dumb enough to swallow their nonsense!
DeleteWhen God says yes, nobody can say no!
ReplyDeleteWhat does that mean Trevor?
DeleteJC
It means his current wheel design is a failure, but it has led him to an exciting new discovery and way to make the wheel turn. I can hardly wait, just a few more years to go.
DeleteMaybe Trevor, after praying devoutly on his knees for hours every day, has finally made direct contact with God Himself?! God, impressed by his humility and piety, has now chosen to give Trevor the secret of building working pm wheels just like He gave it to Bessler centuries ago as a reward for his piety and efforts to improve Christianity.
DeleteThis is certainly exciting news and shows the power of prayer. No doubt Trevor will soon be announcing he's found that runner he's been looking for all of these years.
John, they were referring to Trump.
DeleteGod called Trump to serve two terms and no one can stand in the way.His mission is to clean out the corrupt swamp and restore biblical values.
You're right Trevor. A truly holy man like Trump must have been sent by God to get America back on the path to righteousness again and to keep the Demonrats from taking it down into the pit of socialist Hell! No doubt Satan's minions will try to rig the upcoming election so Trump loses. But God's people will prevent that from happening in less than a week to go! Let's all pray that they can come up with a new US Constitution so Trump can remain our President for the rest of his hopefully long life. Eight years is just not enough.
DeleteI'll believe that Trump is a "holy man" when pigs can fly! Eight years of him is not enough? Imo, eight minutes of him is too much!
Delete" Why doesn't one of you just talk straight, be completely open and matter of fact. No games. Get it out there and crush the opposition."
ReplyDeleteIt took JC sir a decade or so to finally start revealing his findings... People had to wait patiently... Some even left after losing patience before the great revelation... Yet, where see we now?... Isn't this a great disappointment?... Wasn't this an empty vessel?... How many assurances and promises?... Will this all end up as a good guidance or giving false hopes with misleading statements?... Same goes for Ken... Now Ken has switched over to Trump and covid news having met the same fate... One good thing is that the big wait is over as far as these two revelations are concerned... Now their next target targets are SK, SG and Trevor...
This ain't no way of handling Bessler story man...
To a Bessler dedicated man a clear hint is enough to make out who is on the right path...
He won't be taking advantage of the anonymous posting facility here to attack and suppress every promising leading... It is quite strange to observe JC sir remaining a silent spectator to such attacks by Ken... This also makes one wonder if JC sir welcomes such moves by Ken...
BW mechanism is extremely simple... But the real hard part comes after the build... How to face distractors like Ken?... How to get the coveted prize?... How to protect the secret from prying eyes?... How to explain the secret without revealing much?... How to go about patenting?...
Bessler faced all these problems, didn't he?... Did he talk straight and remain completely open?... Did everyone believe him outrightly?...
I think the real problems come after the build if one is seeking compensation for years of hard work... And, all this is not being understood by JC sir and Ken...
If at all Jc sir is really interested in promoting bessler's cause he should first get rid of this Ken phenomenon which has taken over this blog like covid... Secondly, he should accept his own failure in cracking this case... Thirdly, he should start facilitating anyone with a promising idea using his influence and experience... I mean he should start a trust like the one he did for Amy to promote Bessler invention and to ensure that the real future inventor gets his due credit and fruit...
I request JC sir to seriously consider all the above suggestions and get real serious in implementing the same... I assure you all that the Bessler mystery will finally see the light of the day...soon...
Good day...
"BW mechanism is extremely simple... I assure you all that the Bessler mystery will finally see the light of the day...soon..."
DeleteOnce again, Suresh, thank you so much for using your special gift to help us finally find the secret of Bessler's wheels. I agree 100% with you that JC and KB (and also that -F guy imo) are totally clueless when it comes to providing any accurate information about Bessler and his wheels. Everyone here should only believe what you are saying about them. Thank God you are on this blog and helping to keep it sane and as interesting as you do! Thank you, Sir!
Interesting how Suresh chides others to reveal their work but he reveals nothing. He has nothing to offer and we waste our time making comments like this, but I guess it serves a bigger purpose, and that is to alert newcomers of this false prophet and his phony claims.
DeleteAnon 06:37 might be serious, but I suspect he is really just mocking SK and seeing if he can get a response out of him which would then show everyone how delusion SK really is. It's an interesting ego stroking reverse psychology technique that I haven't seen used here before. SK was conceited enough to take the bait back on 26 October 2020 at 05:32, but I think he's woken up to what's being done to him and will avoid reacting to it in the future. I agree with you Anon 16:13. SK is one of the emptiest of the empty drums on this blog. He makes a lot of noise, but he's empty inside of any real information about Bessler's wheels.
DeleteI have uncovered some interesting information in Bessler's writings. Apparently he was more involved in mysticism than widely known. There are references to him visiting Price Kabala in Kapetapek in the early 1700's, and learned the way of remote viewing. The information decoded so far indicates he remote viewed an individual in 2019 or 2020 and that is where he learned the secret of PM. Clearly this person must be of immense genius and likely server in some scientific or other intellectual position. I am struggling with the cypher but so far it looks like the name of the person is Sarjesh Kungber but I continue to make changes to the name as I uncover more information. If we can find this individual we might be able to learn the secret. I will keep at it.
ReplyDeleteMaybe Bessler remote viewed KB's 2019 book and got the secret for his wheels from that? Hey, wait a second. KB claims he got the secret from Bessler's 1719 book! That would mean each got the secret from each others book that were written exactly 300 years apart which is impossible because it would be like an effect appearing without any cause which means the secret just popped into existence somehow out of nowhere. Sounds like magic. Or maybe God was involved and the secret's appearance was truly miraculous? I'm starting to not believe in remote viewing...or maybe in your research.
DeleteI may have miscalculated the number of curls on Bessler's head in the portrait. Based on my new count, the persons name now reads as Surisha Kumbala. Wow this is some exciting stuff. If this guy turns out to be real, he is probably some major Brainiac. Well I'll keep fine tuning. Who knows, maybe he's a regular on this site.
DeleteMaybe Surisha Kumbala = Suresh Kumar??? OMG!
DeleteLol! Guys, Bessler didn't find the secret of his wheels by remote viewing something centuries ahead of his time, gazing into a crystal ball, making a horoscope, or reading the secret in some ancient text. He found it by busting his arse for a decade to build a hundred nonrunners and then having an incredible stroke of luck. Hard work really only served to help him eliminate what could not work so he started to realize more and more what might work and focused on that. Even then still a LOT of luck required.
Imo, MT 13 is the basic final design he focused on and which he made work. He mentions in MT that Leupold's similar wheel could work if he used Bessler's connectedness principle. That is the key to making MT 13 or a variation of it with only eight levers work. Just figure out how to use ropes to connect together the eight levers in a wheel and you will also find Bessler's design.
If you can't build wheels or don't want to then get a sim program, learn how to use it, and start simming your wheels. Meanwhile stop daydreaming about spooky psychic ways to find a runner. You will need to work as hard as possible and even then will still need enormous luck. The problem with luck is that you can't depend on it happening when you need it. For every maybe one hundred thousand who do this only one will find that luck needed to get his runner. It probably won't be you...but it could be. Like a lottery game "you got to be in it to win it"...but you also have to have phenomenal luck to win the big jackpot prize. If you can't stand constant disappointment and the high probability of ultimate failure, then you have no business chasing pm, Bessler's or any other.
Well said. And remember that Karl said it was easy to understand, and simple to build. He was amazed no one else had invented it. Simple enough for a carpenters boy to take a look and build. Bessler himself was worried a buyer would want his money back because there was not much artistry to it.
DeleteHaving said that, and following on from Anon above, there must be a simple logic to his secret. Logical enough so that it was easy to understand and for most anyone to build once they'd seen the simple arrangement.
We all try to cheat Height for Width and come up short time and time again (as B. did). Did B. persevere with that approach to the end, or did he eventually find a mechanical workaround that conveniently sidestepped the H4W arguments entirely, which was his epiphany moment and his piece of luck ?
Food for thought. Either way the answer is simple and logical so as to not cause any confusion once seen.
-f
"We all try to cheat Height for Width and come up short time and time again..."
DeleteI have yet to read a clear explanation of exactly what H4W actually means? Seems like it's mentioned occasionally and people then sound like they all just understand it. I still don't!
I do agree with anon 23:18 that MT13 is a very important one. Like that soothsaying guy said in a past blog, it's the only one in MT with a smiling face on it. Why make a happy face out of that one wheel design? I didn't notice it until he pointed it out.
Thanks to anon 23.18 and fletch, for offering sensible response to the wild speculation by earlier anons. I think there was perhaps a bit of leg pulling going on there!
DeleteI did post a little curiosity in my blog on Tuesday 17th February 2017, which comments on it, but you will certainly find a full explanation in BW forum
JC